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Jade Armor Set in PVP: a petition to KI

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jan 05, 2009
4
I realize that the Jade gear isn't easy to get a full set of unless you plan on spending a lot of crowns, but people that do end up getting them are abusing them in PVP. When you have a resist of 70 or over and then add a fortification aura of 15 to 20% we looking at 90 percent resist on an opponent in the arena (this is not taking pet defense in to consideration). This leads to a very long and trying match up, and although the player wearing the gear has presumably low damage (depending on pet build), it is still an unfair match up.

Firstly, I do not think that the Jade items should be taken out of the game or retired. I think that they can be a very interesting element and strategy to use outside of pvp-- in the pve realm. What I do suggest is that KI begins placing resist caps in pvp duels. This can be done rather easy by placing a rule set inside of the arena. Let say our restriction with all our gear and pets in the arena is 70%? this still takes Ice wizard gear into consideration but allows for a little less of a grueling experience.

Secondly, I would really like to see KI add some dynamic changes to PVP. Like an option to duel without pets or spells beyond a certain rank. These could be dynamic rules that players could choose to select before stepping in to the arena. It would revitalize a thinning pvp community and really amp enthusiasm for this portion of Wizard101. I think that a pvp match without pets and following certain guidelines could be very fun, more expedient and less gear/level reliant.

Third, there needs to be, without a doubt, more pvp gear added to the arena vendors. I think the gear stops at somewhere like level 50. There is a whole other group levels 50-90 that is unaccounted for in pvp. Adding gear for the higher level players give long time pvpers something else to look forward to. If you want to balance pvp, why not try to accomplish that through your pvp only gear? Make the gear more tempting for high level players to shoot for and the players will use it! You could manage to balance much of the troubling pvp gear builds through utilizing a pvp only gear model.

Fourth, although the last portion spoke of gear enthusiastically, I don't want to shy away from the topic at hand here and that is ultimately that pvp should be about creativity, strategy and skill and not a gear determined experience or outcome.

Lastly, KI, you have accomplished some amazing things with this game. People love it and will continue to play it if you continue to create and refine your world. PvP has been more of an important draw for the community than I believe sometimes you give it credit for. I personally have seen this game develop over the years in very exciting ways, while real developments in the realm of pvp have been waning.

I leave all of this in your very capable hands, and I REALLY hope that someone from KI responds to this with at least a hint towards a change or development coming for PVP. Please shed some light for us.

Defender
Sep 29, 2008
146
ok what he just said about resist isn't true at all fist off people already paid good money to get that gear so taking it from them would be just plain wrong secondly a fortify doesnt count towards resist normally its like a weakness on an attack a totall different calculation if some one had 80 resist and a tc fortify for 20 then it would first minus 20 from the attack then the 80. Secondly go buy the gear if you feel you cant win without it i'm tired of seeing people argue and complain about resist when the real problem is their weak players or have weak attack attack in this game can go higher than 100% plus piercing yet defense only can max at 80 for universal and immunity only for ices who use total defense pets witch means dispel them and they mostly cant heal the defense is fine so stop crying about it and use converts if need be cause with all the piercing in game its getting out of hand how people cry about defense being too high.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
He raises a good point though. Matches in pvp are starting to take a really long time because of resist, and some of us don't think that's worth the time.

An elegant solution would be to create more PVP options.

For instance, instead of sending all rank players into the same pool for matchups, there should be a "speedy PVP option" that limits resist and possibly even incoming/outgoing heal. Or, "damage PVP option" where the player who deals the most damage and heals the least in 20 rounds wins. Those are just 2 ideas.

(After all, the point of a match is not to go on forever.)

Survivor
Jan 05, 2009
4
Rikudo Sennin on Dec 12, 2012 wrote:
ok what he just said about resist isn't true at all fist off people already paid good money to get that gear so taking it from them would be just plain wrong secondly a fortify doesnt count towards resist normally its like a weakness on an attack a totall different calculation if some one had 80 resist and a tc fortify for 20 then it would first minus 20 from the attack then the 80. Secondly go buy the gear if you feel you cant win without it i'm tired of seeing people argue and complain about resist when the real problem is their weak players or have weak attack attack in this game can go higher than 100% plus piercing yet defense only can max at 80 for universal and immunity only for ices who use total defense pets witch means dispel them and they mostly cant heal the defense is fine so stop crying about it and use converts if need be cause with all the piercing in game its getting out of hand how people cry about defense being too high.
"Firstly, I do not think that the Jade items should be taken out of the game or retired."

Did you not read?

Survivor
Jan 05, 2009
4
Lucas Rain on Dec 12, 2012 wrote:
He raises a good point though. Matches in pvp are starting to take a really long time because of resist, and some of us don't think that's worth the time.

An elegant solution would be to create more PVP options.

For instance, instead of sending all rank players into the same pool for matchups, there should be a "speedy PVP option" that limits resist and possibly even incoming/outgoing heal. Or, "damage PVP option" where the player who deals the most damage and heals the least in 20 rounds wins. Those are just 2 ideas.

(After all, the point of a match is not to go on forever.)
I agree. Options for match creation in PVP would be an elegant solution AND would add much more opportunity for dynamic experiences.

Explorer
Jul 10, 2009
58
This petition is amazingly well written. I agree with all of it.

Survivor
Jul 27, 2012
1
well i believe that ki should change this gear to no pvp cuz if all of us and up getting this insane gear we will all have 70+ resist to all schools and no one will have damage to kill, now how would that be effective on a fun game, someone plz answer that

Geographer
Feb 19, 2010
939
This is completely crazy. To even ask such a thing is wrong. It just seems anymore that if something is not going right for people they hop on the forums asking for something to be banned or restricted.
People please understand there are others playing this game and in my honest opinion nothing should be banned from pvp, If you cannot beat someone or it takes to long for a match then figure a new strategy or something. I know long matches can be frustrating but donot ask for KI to nerf something just cause you had a bad day.

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
711
Jonas97 on Dec 11, 2012 wrote:
I realize that the Jade gear isn't easy to get a full set of unless you plan on spending a lot of crowns, but people that do end up getting them are abusing them in PVP. When you have a resist of 70 or over and then add a fortification aura of 15 to 20% we looking at 90 percent resist on an opponent in the arena (this is not taking pet defense in to consideration). This leads to a very long and trying match up, and although the player wearing the gear has presumably low damage (depending on pet build), it is still an unfair match up.

Firstly, I do not think that the Jade items should be taken out of the game or retired. I think that they can be a very interesting element and strategy to use outside of pvp-- in the pve realm. What I do suggest is that KI begins placing resist caps in pvp duels. This can be done rather easy by placing a rule set inside of the arena. Let say our restriction with all our gear and pets in the arena is 70%? this still takes Ice wizard gear into consideration but allows for a little less of a grueling experience.

Secondly, I would really like to see KI add some dynamic changes to PVP. Like an option to duel without pets or spells beyond a certain rank. These could be dynamic rules that players could choose to select before stepping in to the arena. It would revitalize a thinning pvp community and really amp enthusiasm for this portion of Wizard101. I think that a pvp match without pets and following certain guidelines could be very fun, more expedient and less gear/level reliant.

Third, there needs to be, without a doubt, more pvp gear added to the arena vendors. I think the gear stops at somewhere like level 50. There is a whole other group levels 50-90 that is unaccounted for in pvp. Adding gear for the higher level players give long time pvpers something else to look forward to. If you want to balance pvp, why not try to accomplish that through your pvp only gear? Make the gear more tempting for high level players to shoot for and the players will use it! You could manage to balance much of the troubling pvp gear builds through utilizing a pvp only gear model.

Fourth, although the last portion spoke of gear enthusiastically, I don't want to shy away from the topic at hand here and that is ultimately that pvp should be about creativity, strategy and skill and not a gear determined experience or outcome.

Lastly, KI, you have accomplished some amazing things with this game. People love it and will continue to play it if you continue to create and refine your world. PvP has been more of an important draw for the community than I believe sometimes you give it credit for. I personally have seen this game develop over the years in very exciting ways, while real developments in the realm of pvp have been waning.

I leave all of this in your very capable hands, and I REALLY hope that someone from KI responds to this with at least a hint towards a change or development coming for PVP. Please shed some light for us.
Agreed!

Thank you,

Qbb/Iridian Shadowweaver

Delver
Jul 21, 2009
225
They don't need to do away with these sets. What KI should do is like the potions make them No pvp so you can not wear them when in pvp. I do see very good points here. 80 percent plus resistance is a little overkill.

Survivor
Jul 23, 2009
25
Agreed!

Resist is going overboard and needs a cap. I think 70% is just right. People could still use the crowns gear too with resist like that. Because, after all, the crowns gear isn't the problem, nor the pets, or even ice crafted gear. It is the fusion of many different sources of resist that creates the problem.

To Kingsisle, both your MMOs are incredible. I play both wizard and pirate, but I too think there needs to be a resist cap. Hopefully it will be included in a future update. :D

Survivor
Jan 05, 2009
4
Maybe KI plans to release a set of damage gear that will balance the Jade Armor? Something that gives +75% Damage and 60% piercing?

Explorer
Aug 23, 2012
84
This does need to be adressed. I have witnessed matches where level 90s have nothing but shields in their deck, and they spam them hoping their opponent flees. If an oponnent shatters, they just reshuffle and use it again. If an opponent attacks, they just heal with over 100 boost.

Explorer
Nov 17, 2012
91
hmm jade gear does resist a little too much, but i think it's good because some wizards can hit very high without any traps or blades and their critical is can even make it too 400 the resist would really help in that kind of pvp battle since some wizards like to focus on high damage and ending the battle quickly. (Blaze Moonmender lvl 90 necromancer)

Survivor
Sep 26, 2010
2
I didn't really mind Jade until the latest (and inane) Reshuffle change. Prior to that, it was aggravating (in the sense only of time consuming) to fight a Jade, but for a decent player, it was pretty much an assured win eventually.

With the restriction on Reshuffle; however, that has changed. It is now the era of the Jade Guardian (those who wear Jade and use Guardian Spirit (learned, tc or from gear)). The win strategy is three-fold: 1) aggravate until opponent flees; 2) run opponent out of cards or; 3) spam traps & blades, shatter and hit. It takes a long time to get to the third, so most either flee or run their cards out.

I know - I've tested it on my 90 Death to extraordinary effect, out of curiosity and, to a large extent, in protest to KI's lack of forethought on the Reshuffle change. Granted, I am a master of deck construction and, knowing all the strategies to defeat a Jade Guardian, have crafted my deck to counter them.

Please give us back Reshuffle or place some restrictions on either or both the use of Jade and Guardian Spirit in PvP. As a person who has played for some three years and spent thousands on this game, you (KI) are about to lose this revenue stream - and not likely just me.

Or are you just hoping many more people will buy more Keeper's Lore packs?

Hint to the wise from an experienced business leader (over 20 years) - put profits before customers and your business fails. Then again, I suppose that bottom line revenue will help in your acquisition negotiations or IPO.... In which case, can I get some shares now?

Defender
Apr 07, 2011
156
How can a gear set can be unbalanced, that only gives resistance?

Sorry to say that, but i totally disagree with your petition. I won't say "imrove your tactics" or "learn some real skills", instead i give you some useful tipps how to beat a Jade Turtle.

Enchant your attack with extraordinary and use TC infallible. That will decrease a lot of resistance. If there's a shield on your enemy that can eat your piercing use shatter or any other way to remove them first. You should consider learning Melt and Cloak spells. Awesome way for a well timed counter of a Tower Shield.

Example (for sorcerers with myth mastery):
1. Feint
2. TC Feint
3. Infallible
4. Cloaked Melt
5. Shatter
6. Judgement enchanted with Extraordinary

Survivor
Jan 03, 2011
14
Not a huge fan of jade users, but life needs it. My partner and I have never lost to a jade, and we face them second constantly. In 1v1, a jade users only chance is lasting until you run out of reshuffle. (Thanks KI -.-) But in team, just fight it as 2v1. Kill the hitter first, dont even bother with the jade yet. Once you get your first good hit, doom immediately, and keep it up no matter what. Spam infection on the jade like crazy, cause the better ones carry cleanse charm and have them crazy healing pets. Likely the jade will have myth mastery, so use a few dispels and cover them up with weakness, etc, so she can't cleanse them off. They usually have a high block wand, but there arent any high block myth wands, so those dispels are safe unless you earth. Dont earth. Then, kill the jade slowly, dont worry bout big hits. They gonna swap bubble, doom. Common strategy once their mate goes down is they get 8 pips, sanctuary then rebirth. I usually doom again at 8 pips, just in case. If you have a balance, keep her pips down with burn while the other team mate kills. Death is nice to have against jade too. Storm, just infallible and owl and she down 1500 health then and there. x, x Myth, their shatter can come in handy. Life, wreck her with a few gnome, and stack on dispels. With strategies similar to this, Jade isnt a challenge at all.

Survivor
Feb 18, 2013
4
PVP should only be based on a wizards ability to sling spells properly all gear should be neutralized upon entering the arena giving each wizard their base level strengths to rely on. None of my 6 wizards have bothered with pvp because I know they will no doubt get their butts kicked because I do not have a clue where to get the high end gear. lol... The high end gear should be for boss and minion battles only that is what it was originally intended for. Then those of us that are out powered can have a chance to try pvp.
Just my opinion.

Defender
Sep 29, 2008
146
people bought the gear specifically for pvp its never ever getting changed or else they would owe a ton of players their money back jade is just annoying thats all it is piercing goes so high you can kill them just a matter of finding and including it in your decks

P.S i would beg ki to change the reshuffle update there are other things that can be done to balance the infinite loops reshuffle was the only thing that was reliable in pvp now i feel like i'm lost when it comes to this new age.

Survivor
Jun 23, 2009
2
First of all I think everyone should just play with whatever you can set up with and if they spam tempest or whatever spell then so be it.
Play the game be a man or woman whatever the case may be and suck it up.
fight the fight live or die, win or lose, the game is amazing and fun. find a team mate or a set up that works
and keep going.
Honestly to complain just because the pvp last longer than before when your school hit so hard and now some one has a defense against it is silly.
If the match isnt working out the flee and make another one.

Champion
Jan 23, 2009
412
Ok I read this and I agree PVP should be more about skill however let us not forget that there are school like ice and life that are not power hitters but can still kill Storm without much ado because storm has so little resist without gear. It would all come down to who's spell is the strongest and who can sling it the fastest. And that would us all to death. Gear helps us with what we see as the short-comings of our schools. I have killed others with jade gear. it can be done. and its a moot point to kill it because the truth is the new pvp is FAR more useful and powerful and my guess is that all the smart pvp players are doing whatever they can to earn the tickets to buy. The new pvp gear and a great pet can make you far more powerful than any jade gear could. So calm down and adjust to the new situation and instead of trying to call foul, learn to beat it. Also if you are wearing gear that isnt dropped its the same as buying it so stop calling people noobs for wearing something you wish you had it comes off as petty.

Champion
Jan 23, 2009
412
513battleblade on May 25, 2013 wrote:
First of all I think everyone should just play with whatever you can set up with and if they spam tempest or whatever spell then so be it.
Play the game be a man or woman whatever the case may be and suck it up.
fight the fight live or die, win or lose, the game is amazing and fun. find a team mate or a set up that works
and keep going.
Honestly to complain just because the pvp last longer than before when your school hit so hard and now some one has a defense against it is silly.
If the match isnt working out the flee and make another one.
Bravo. I agree this is supposed to be FUN

Defender
Nov 01, 2012
105
Jonas97 on Jan 11, 2013 wrote:
Maybe KI plans to release a set of damage gear that will balance the Jade Armor? Something that gives +75% Damage and 60% piercing?
That's funny since they did exactly that on the test realm I think.

Delver
Oct 26, 2010
223
I agree.
I always face teams with atleast one life that has jade armor, and fortify, and massive outgoing healing. Plus their pets heal NONSTOP, so, do 1000 damage to a life, pet uses fairy, 1181 heal, FULL HEALTH. I mean seriously, unless you have doom and gloom, you're dead. The storms attack, the lifes use guardian spirit, reshuffle, heal some more, full health, doom, storms kill you, you can't heal. It sucks.

Wolf HawkBreaker Promethean

Survivor
Dec 18, 2010
3
I agree. PVP is ruined.
I played thousand of matches at first era, and no matter if matches were lost or won, globally the system was fair and fun.
Now facing life with jade, ice with jade, death with jade, balance with jade, myth with jade, seriously this isn't fair and really boring... Oh KI, i get it: you wanted pvp players to all buy jade gears for pvp? What a clever and wonderful idea! You gonna make a lot of money!
I think you should go further and release a super-jade gear which could be immune to all schools. At the point you reach for ruining so much pvp, go beyond! People will buy it!
For me the game was still fun until you allowed that gear in arena. I assure you that I won't renew my sub next month, and that until the jade stuff will be removed from pvp.
I know that you have now a solid community of players all around the world and that you don't care if i don't renew, but I'm convinced that I will not be the only one.
In the past you removed spells like morph and insane bolt because it was ruining pvp.

It is time that you realize that with the jade stuff you've made a terrible mistake.
Bye.

1