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Is Your Wizard really the Best? - PvP & Treasure C

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Apr 03, 2009
24
PvP = Player Vs. Player = Your Best Effort Vs. My Best Effort

In Kingsisle's current setup of the Arena and how Wizards are allowed to set up is completely obscured from the above concept, BUT can and should easily be fixed. Let me explain…

A Majority of players have decided that the only way they can win in the Arena is with the use of Treasure Cards that are:
1. NOT of their School of CHOICE
2. NOT trained in as a secondary school spell by use of training points.
3. NOT the appropriate level to cast the spell.

To truly have a PvP system that allows for a Wizard to win using strategy, proper deck building and just plain old common sense… Wizards should ONLY be allowed to use:
1. Spells from their School of CHOICE.
2. Spells attained by the use of training points
3. Treasure Cards, but only of spells that they can already cast from the first two selections.

In the current PvP environment, the best analogy that I can use is Poker....
Kingsisle is currently allowing Wizards to have an “Ace up their sleeve” during a poker game or arena match. But that is not all… Not only do they have the Ace up their sleeve, but they have several copies of the Ace of Spades, Diamonds, Hearts and Clubs AND are allowing Wizards to play all of them in their winning hand…

Does this sound like a poker player that you want to play against???

Look KI – You have built a system where a player can choose a school they want to play. You have allowed them to add spells of different schools via training points. Most important is that with the use of training points you have left out the ability to learn certain spells for a reason. Why allow the use of spells that do not fall under the above “umbrella” plague the Arena…??

LET US TRULY SEE WHO THE BEST WIZARDS ARE!!

PLEASE consider banning the use of treasure cards that are not copies of spells from their chosen School or are not copies of spells attained by the use of training points.

Survivor
Dec 23, 2008
31
HatTrick3 wrote:

1. Spells from their School of CHOICE.
2. Spells attained by the use of training points
3. Treasure Cards, but only of spells that they can already cast from the first two selections.
Well if they are from the player's school of CHOICE, then they need no Training points. Also, what about secondary school spells that they obtained with Training points?

Survivor
Dec 25, 2008
3
This is true but you don't want to ban the use of treasure cards entirely like that you would want to only ban their use in the Dueling Arena to ban the use of treasure cards that aren't your school in standard Player vs. NPC Combat would be no help to you. I am replying to this as i have noticed so many noobs using wild bolt treasure card to "cheat" in PvP matches i believe they should ban the use of treasure cards that are beyond the level of the wizard to cast normally if the school was their main school. this would make ranked PvP matches much more fair to the people who do not cheat by using these treasure cards

Defender
Jun 17, 2009
111
you know the implementing of that non use of treasure cards not trained in the school.. this will only encourage each player to put 1 training point towards all other schools and then build up into ice school for towers or so.. lol..

to be honest the idea is good but to structure the way your saying takes a lot of work especially when the game broke 2,000,000 players.. and to reform the game will be complicated..


anyhow i do detest players using treasure cards such as bolt triton storm lord etc...

but i always manage to find ways against it and build up in a precise way to win my matches especially balance.. people ASSUME i will save up pips for judgment but no they end up to find out they are wrong. my hint is i trained my arts into storm school kraken can one hit kill an ice player easily.. i've won so many matches and come across people saying bolt err noobs or judgement fool or stuff like that which gets annoying


SOME people need to understand not everyone does it the boring way as everyone does it i mean i see no fun in judgmenting people or bolting them as it doesn't give me the entertainment of a so called PVP MATCH!

Survivor
Jun 04, 2008
21
HatTrick3 wrote:
To truly have a PvP system that allows for a Wizard to win using strategy, proper deck building and just plain old common sense… Wizards should ONLY be allowed to use:
1. Spells from their School of CHOICE.
2. Spells attained by the use of training points
3. Treasure Cards, but only of spells that they can already cast from the first two selections.

Most important is that with the use of training points you have left out the ability to learn certain spells for a reason. Why allow the use of spells that do not fall under the above “umbrella” plague the Arena…??.


You have voiced my opinion exactly, HatTrick3.

I have been a member of Wizard101 since beta/before the old arena, have a wizard in every school, been through every level and every rank, including grandmaster and "overlord". I only state this to lend credence to my experience.

I'm a true believer in playing fair and using good sportsmanship. I, personally, don't use Wild bolt or beguile unless on my storm or death wizard, respectively. I prefer to use that rare ideal - school specific, (or trained) strategy. A match against a solo or team, who uses bolt or beguile as a crutch (or Ace) does not make for an enjoyable or well thought out match. I can't say I've ever heard of a "bolter" coming out of a match excited or pleased that even they, themselves, lost to another "bolter".

I used to find the occasional bolt or beguile, annoying but tolerable, but it seems to have become more the norm than the exception. I don't feel it necessary to ban treasure cards in arena, but can't see a valid reason for not making them school or at least level specific - in pvp. (While my grand ice in full arena gear, can scoff at a Wild Bolt, my level 5 storm, with some of the best non-arena gear, has no fair recourse or defense against a bolter at any level, let alone another level 5 wizard who bolts.)

Please, KI, consider implementing some restrictions on the use of non trainable/school specific treasure cards in arena to bring the fun and interest back and stop making pvp more about just being a frenzied bolt war.


Defender
May 29, 2009
196

I actually agree with what you said and would like to see changes like that implemented, but let's me play devil's advocate for a bit.

1. If everyone has an ace up their sleeve, doesn't that equalize the playing field? (I know -- not everyone has equal access to those aces).

2. If these rules around treasure cards were implemented, I believe you'd also have to change the pvp matching system or at least the point award system. After reaching a higher rank, it is not unusual for level 30s wizards to get matched up with level 45+ wizards. So what you have is a more arena experience lower level wizard against a less-experienced higher level wizard. I would argue this can roughly be an equal match since the lower level wizard probably has better strategy to counter the higher health, high lvl spells, and more power pip %.

However, if this match is considered equal, then the rank point award system should also be equal and today it's not. If the lower level, higher ranked wizard loses, he/she will lose about 20+ points, but if he/she wins, he will only win about 3-7 points. Lower level wizards may feel compelled to use higher level, out of school spells because the consequences of losing are so inequitable right now.




Survivor
Apr 03, 2009
24
First off let me thank all that took the time to respond. I really did not expect a lot of response from those who are the offenders…

snowflake247 wrote:
Well if they are from the player's school of CHOICE, then they need no Training points. Also, what about secondary school spells that they obtained with Training points?

Umm, did you read this..?? In my post I would like to see wizards in the Arena, only be able to cast only the following spells:
> Spells from their School of Choice (This is all of the school spells that you can learn from your chosen school)
> Spells attained by the use of training points (These are secondary school spells that you get from training points that you spend)
> Spells cast by any wizards are level appropriate (I don’t want to see a level 30 or below wizard casting ANY of the level 6 or 7 spells)
> Treasure Cards, but only of spells that they can already cast from the first two selections.

Heck I would even say that healing and shield treasure cards could also be allowed for those that do not want to spend the training points on tower shield, other school shields, fairy, dryad and satyr.

ferret854 wrote:
This is true but you don't want to ban the use of treasure cards entirely like that you would want to only ban their use in the Dueling Arena to ban the use of treasure cards that aren't your school in standard Player vs. NPC Combat would be no help to you. I am replying to this as i have noticed so many noobs using wild bolt treasure card to "cheat" in PvP matches i believe they should ban the use of treasure cards that are beyond the level of the wizard to cast normally if the school was their main school. this would make ranked PvP matches much more fair to the people who do not cheat by using these treasure cards

My post is for the Arena environment ONLY. Also - The only wizards that should be able to cast Wild Bolt are Storm Wizards, period. Wild Bolt, Beguile and some of the other school specific spells can not be learned using training points as a secondary school spell for a reason and KI should see this. Many Threads have been made on these spells and I would like to see Wizards of those particular schools be the only wizards being able to cast them.

tracinjd wrote:
you know the implementing of that non use of treasure cards not trained in the school.. this will only encourage each player to put 1 training point towards all other schools and then build up into ice school for towers or so.. lol..

SOME people need to understand not everyone does it the boring way as everyone does it i mean i see no fun in judgmenting people or bolting them as it doesn't give me the entertainment of a so called PVP MATCH!

Your first point – That is the reason for training points, to give your wizard a competitive edge and you should wisely spend them with that in mind. KI should have a better tutorial for this, but I can understand why they don’t since it costs crowns to buy the training points back once you have figured out that you wasted most of them…
Your second point – I have no problem with Balance and judgment. This is really Balance Wizards only “Big Gun” to use and as you mentioned there are ways to prevent from taking the maximum damage. I recommend that you use your training points on Ice school to Tower shield and Weakness from the Balance School.

hmmmk wrote:
You have voiced my opinion exactly, HatTrick3.

I'm a true believer in playing fair and using good sportsmanship. I, personally, don't use Wild bolt or beguile unless on my storm or death wizard, respectively. I prefer to use that rare ideal - school specific, (or trained) strategy. A match against a solo or team, who uses bolt or beguile as a crutch (or Ace) does not make for an enjoyable or well thought out match. I can't say I've ever heard of a "bolter" coming out of a match excited or pleased that even they, themselves, lost to another "bolter".

Please, KI, consider implementing some restrictions on the use of non trainable/school specific treasure cards in arena to bring the fun and interest back and stop making pvp more about just being a frenzied bolt war.

Thanks hmmmk, I would love to Duel you sometime as we have the same ideals in our Arena play.

But you would be surprised how many Non-Storm Wizards that I have fought that hit me with two or more Wild Bolts and do nothing more than talk trash when our match is over and tell me that I have been owned… ugh… really??

carterma wrote:
I actually agree with what you said and would like to see changes like that implemented, but let's me play devil's advocate for a bit.

1. If everyone has an ace up their sleeve, doesn't that equalize the playing field? (I know -- not everyone has equal access to those aces).

2. If these rules around treasure cards were implemented, I believe you'd also have to change the pvp matching system or at least the point award system. After reaching a higher rank, it is not unusual for level 30s wizards to get matched up with level 45+ wizards. So what you have is a more arena experience lower level wizard against a less-experienced higher level wizard. I would argue this can roughly be an equal match since the lower level wizard probably has better strategy to counter the higher health, high lvl spells, and more power pip %.

However, if this match is considered equal, then the rank point award system should also be equal and today it's not. If the lower level, higher ranked wizard loses, he/she will lose about 20+ points, but if he/she wins, he will only win about 3-7 points. Lower level wizards may feel compelled to use higher level, out of school spells because the consequences of losing are so inequitable right now.

Some answers for the Devil’s advocate –
1. It does even the playing field by allowing all players to do so, but as you mention the playing field will always be uneven if all wizards can not access the treasure cards to match the other Wizards Aces… I know of many PvPers that create a Storm wizards for the sole purpose of making Treasure Wild Bolts... This is not a reasoning that I care to follow in the foot steps of… KI would have to open a PvP only treasure card shop for this to truly be an even playing field.

2. The matching system is fine the way it is… It first looks at your current ranking and then your Wizards level and will first look for the most compatible match based on those two parameters. Only if there are no matches will it extend its search. You currently have mismatches based on this system. With all that you said on this part of your reply, all of which will still occur regardless if my suggestions are put in place. KI really does need to put together a good size focus group of PvPers and think tank these issues out on match ups and how points are distributed.