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Is PvP Ruining this Game?

2
AuthorMessage
Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1473
loki1201 wrote:
I'm sorry if it sounded that way in my post. I didn't mean it to come across like that.

I understand your frustration, but all I was saying was that PvP is an element of the game, and when the developers create something (spells, clothes etc.) they need to make sure that creation works properly in both aspects - PvE and PvP.

I know that you don't care much for PvP. But I'm fairly certain the % of people that PvP is a lot higher than you realize.

On my buddy list, at least half are hardcore PvP'ers. Almost borderline addiction. Now, if that's just my buddy list, imagine how many others are out there. With over 15 million wizards in the Spiral, I would estimate hundreds of thousands would PvP. And that's being moderate. That number is likely higher. The PvP community is in no way a small minority.


Believe me, I do realize that PvP is a popular activity. Not many people on my Friend's lists are PvPers, but as the PvPoll so aptly proved, PvP is a popular part of the game. I didn't mean that PvP was a "minority"; I meant that PvP is a minor part of the game. This is how I see it: imagine you're at a high school. The high school has a very popular football team, so popular that people just go to the school to be part of the team. If you're not on the football team in some way, you're on one of the committees; if you're not on one of the committees, you're a cheerleader; if you're not a cheerleader, you're a hardcore fan; and if you're not a hardcore fan, you're on the outskirts of the school's population. First, even though the school is all about football isn't it still a school? Yes; it's a school, not a football camp. Second, would it be fair to affect the school's academic services just because they affect the football team and all the people that support it? Heck no! That's why I feel that the changes that are made to the game and the fact that the game developers have to walk on eggshells because of all this PvP nonsense is asinine.

I know the spells you are talking about.
1. Wild Bolt
2. Earthquake

Those are like the only 2 spells everyone loves to complain about. And both were changed rightfully so. Maybe some people like to fight dirty on AI enemies, and that's fine, but when fighting real people, try to have some honor and strategy.
And if you can't (which they couldn't), then KI will do it for them (which they did with the changes).


Although I don't believe they were changed rightfully so (Earthquake's alteration was completely unwarranted and Wild Bolt was changed for the worse), but I wasn't just addressing those two spells. Like I said I'm talking about all the spells and ideas that were immediately thrown out or had to be watered down because of this horrible addition to the game. Lastly, have you seen PvP lately? There's plenty of strategy, but there's nary a shred of honor to be found anywhere in that arena. PvP should no longer affect the game because there's no point. There's always gonna be something. I promise you that.

Delver
Mar 13, 2011
278
Solstice64 wrote:
When was it proven to be a minor part of the game? Did you see that feedback Friday that asks how much people pvp. Guess what, the largest amount of votes went to "all the time." So if more people enjoy pvp then not, then how is it a minor part of the game?


Sorry, but 112 people saying they played PvP all the time is not an accurate sampling of the entire player base.

68% of the people in that poll do NOT PvP all the time. Get the idea? They should poll people asking if they play ranked or practice PvP, but still, there simply won't be enough data to accuratley extrapolate the scope of the general player base's appetite.

Squire
Dec 21, 2008
563
I agree, you complainers could be ruining it for people who don't PvP.

Mastermind
Feb 16, 2009
329
Solstice64 wrote:
Superwiz1560 wrote:


I'm not going to say that a lot of people don't PvP, because that would be a lie. However, I stand by the fact that PvP is only a minor part of the game.

You make little actual gameplay progress in PvP.

You can't gain experience from it.

The only worthwhile usable rewards you get from PvP besides pets (and most of those are semi-worthless) can only be used in PvP.

There are only two quests in the entire game that requires you even go near the Arena.

PvP is not a major part of this game. Major changes should NOT be made just for the sake of PvP. Wild Bolt I can understand. The first Stun rehaul was just plain nonsense.

And have you even seen some of the crazy requests for changes and observations??

okay this is what I think they gave too much power to the ice school and death school -insert drivel- I recomend to review this and find a solution

OMG again life wins cause of one big attack they need to either lower their 58 spell or unnerf all ices stuff

Oh, and I hate nature- their 1200-point heals should be banned, like, forever.

Treasure cards, I think, shouldn't work in PvP, as you should have to earn your spells. It's annoying to be a more powerful wizard but get beaten by a less powerful wizard by the only power of treasure cards.

I'd bet anything that all of the people who said the nonsense above me voted "all the time" for that PvPoll on that Feedback Friday.

So I stand by what I originally said, thank you.

By the way, sorry if that seemed like a tirade.


Pvp may be minor gameplay wise, but that doesnt matter to KI if so much people keep paying their subs to continue ranked pvp (or use crowns.) Pvp is also the main encourager of buying crowns items (like mega snacks and crowns gear.) Many people in pve would buy those, but in pvp, some younger people feel forced to do so in order to win.


Like I said, if you're using your sub just to PvP, you're doing it wrong. Unfortunately, since so many people are playing PvP, KI has to take extra consideration into that. That much is true.

For a brief moment, I was compelled to say that KI shouldn't conform to the whiners just because a lot of people do it, until I remembered that this isn't fiction. Taking a stand doesn't always turn out favorably.

For example, WoW took a stand on PvP a couple years back and made it more fair for everyone. Guess what? The whiners, bullies, and immature players got so upset over this new fairness that a lot of people quit and about a million dollars was lost. It's recovered now, but it was still quite a shocking blow.

Difference is, the Warcraft franchise is as old as I am. Wizard101 is still a pretty new game, at least compared to WoW. Such a blow like that would set KI back by a bunch, and that means later updates, longer waits between worlds, and just general disappointment. Worst part is, since PvP in this game is like a parasite that doesn't age, those whiners, bullies, and immature players on PvP probably wouldn't be affected half as much as us questers would.

It's a sad, vicious circle, but the truth of the matter is, there's nothing much that can be done about it right now, by us at least. Best thing to do is just hope that since KI is smarter than most of us, they can find away to resolve this issue without causing much stress on any of the three sides of this irritating trigram...

Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1473
solar113 wrote:
They better not remove Ra, i still want to get that. Plus to be on topic yes many people complain, but they are in the pvp arena and many people lose but that is in the Arena, not the questing world. Most of the time you will lose, but i think the pvp is great for practicing different tactics.


The Arena might be just an Arena, but the decision that are made just because of the people who inhabit the Arena effect everyone. I wouldn't mind if spells were restricted from PvP since I don't play, but what annoys me is that some spells I wish I had, or I wish worked correctly, I don't have, or don't work the way they're supposed to. Also, how exactly does PvP help figure test strategies? I don't know about you, but when I PvPed I found it completely different from PvE.

Defender
Sep 29, 2008
146
well pvp isn't ruing the game but some one we all have that pet peeve spell or school mine is fire in general i feel all the schools should get useful minions and burns just to make it even and even their own form of beguile but slightly different to match their school.and speaking of beguile the game changes make bosses like in ww immune to it so yes the changes are hurting pve a little bit and all bosses cant be stunned either now for the most part even though things were harder back when the game first came out crit ads a new dimension to this just stock dispels or smokes do what ever you can to win except cheating of course develop combos train with friends and even though pvp is a small part of the entire actual game it prepairs you for what gets released next and sure lots of things have been changed
like ices health angels damage storms block rating 2 powere pip wands simplify eldulate etc but we got to get over it granted if something is broken it should be changed but i also dont want to hear any more pvp babies about stuff when they clearly die.such as oh you cheated to crit or you knew you would crit or how did you do so much damage i have said that last one a few times cause bolt does unbelieveable damage over a minus 70 and a minus 50 but moving on people shouldnt be level 40s and want to kill legends if you know what i mean cause i doubt so many legends are going on forums complaining about spells that they know the damage of and since chain stunning is pretty much gone i think lower levels are just complaining that higher levels are strong and their not well i got news for them go level your self dont take it out on us cause you dont want to level up thats a completely unfair reason to get our stuff lowered i shouldnt be a level 60 that does the damage of a level 5 in another game and or with the stats of
the game would be a lot better if we just stopped complaining about stuff that isnt broken and fix what trully is so we can get all the stats we need like storm needing health like crazy lol i am just being honest and i hope i am heard.
p.s. is anyone else bugged how fire don't even have to blade in 1v1 to kill someone lol

Defender
Sep 29, 2008
146
hi its me again i also for got to talk about the poins allocation when you win in pvp i think its uneven i know it goes by ranks and other stats but a lot of times i win 5 in a row only getting 6 or 7 points each and i loose one game and loose 21 and thats already most my earnings for the time i think they should fix this also to be judged by winning streak too so it don't take so many of my points just cause a team got lucky going first or off a random miss etc. please let me know what you guys think am i right or just getting unlucky and wrong?

Survivor
May 10, 2010
1
I did PVP today with my level 70 storm just to see what it was all about, I did 4v4 and lost about 25 times. Then I tried with legend life, ice and balance to get the same result. I should have just gone on never playing, now I have a bad rating and feel bad about myself. LOL. There were people there with stunblock on the clothing and crazy resist so my spells didn't even hurt them at all while they stunned away on me and got critical on every hit. I think pvp is a terrible way to guage anything or practice any tactics. I learned nothing, gained nothing and came away feeling like a loser though in the game I am a great player.

Squire
Jun 19, 2009
514
How about this: Everyone lives with PvP knowing the fact that PvP never works in any game and thank KI for actually taking a chance and putting it in.

Anyways, I dont PvP. I never win due to outrageous stats that those have when you know they farm for 3 days straight. It's not worth the badge of Warlord because when PvP was good, I had Warlord. Then came Celestia and I got called a fake because there were so many fakes. I got ranked down hard and never played again.

Delver
Jul 09, 2009
275
Solstice64 wrote:
Superwiz1560 wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
Changes are made becuase of pvp due to how much players enjoy it. If not many of KI's customers pvped, then they wouldn't bother to chancg things for that reason.


KI changes things on PvP's behalf because people DON'T enjoy it. You don't change things when the majority enjoys it. That's like trying to fix something that's not even broken.

I think you were's trying to say that they change things because of how MANY people enjoy it, which is a load of balogna if you ask me, because as has been previously stated, PvP is an extremely minor part of the game. If you play this game just to PvP, chances are, you're playing for the wrong reason. I suggest World of Warcraft, where you won't even NEED an arena to PvP, in some cases.

But I digress. All you whiners who complain that 'This spell was made wrong.' or 'I hate opponents that heal.', try this.

Go out into the REAL Wizard101, you know, the one with quests, monsters, and rewards. Use the spells you say are made wrong. Cast a heal on yourself. Think about the people who do THAT all the time, out in the REAL Wizard101, the next time you feel like complaining on the PvP board.


When was it proven to be a minor part of the game? Did you see that feedback Friday that asks how much people pvp. Guess what, the largest amount of votes went to "all the time." So if more people enjoy pvp then not, then how is it a minor part of the game?


He means its no more important than gardening and crafting. People PvP because they have nothing to do or because they love doing competitive gaming, like many people do. Feedback Friday for how many people PvP was big, but PvP is actually a minor part of the game. No more important than gardening or crafting. The main aspect is PvE, not PvP. Just because its popular doesn't mean its the main aspect. I bet you most players from 08 probably wouldn't care if PvP was removed because it is ruining the game.
They should just make something like mount racing or a wizard version of football(U.S. football) or another sport.

Aaron Drakewalker Transcended Pyromancer

Delver
Jul 09, 2009
275
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
loki1201 wrote:
I'm sorry if it sounded that way in my post. I didn't mean it to come across like that.

I understand your frustration, but all I was saying was that PvP is an element of the game, and when the developers create something (spells, clothes etc.) they need to make sure that creation works properly in both aspects - PvE and PvP.

I know that you don't care much for PvP. But I'm fairly certain the % of people that PvP is a lot higher than you realize.

On my buddy list, at least half are hardcore PvP'ers. Almost borderline addiction. Now, if that's just my buddy list, imagine how many others are out there. With over 15 million wizards in the Spiral, I would estimate hundreds of thousands would PvP. And that's being moderate. That number is likely higher. The PvP community is in no way a small minority.


Believe me, I do realize that PvP is a popular activity. Not many people on my Friend's lists are PvPers, but as the PvPoll so aptly proved, PvP is a popular part of the game. I didn't mean that PvP was a "minority"; I meant that PvP is a minor part of the game. This is how I see it: imagine you're at a high school. The high school has a very popular football team, so popular that people just go to the school to be part of the team. If you're not on the football team in some way, you're on one of the committees; if you're not on one of the committees, you're a cheerleader; if you're not a cheerleader, you're a hardcore fan; and if you're not a hardcore fan, you're on the outskirts of the school's population. First, even though the school is all about football isn't it still a school? Yes; it's a school, not a football camp. Second, would it be fair to affect the school's academic services just because they affect the football team and all the people that support it? Heck no! That's why I feel that the changes that are made to the game and the fact that the game developers have to walk on eggshells because of all this PvP nonsense is asinine.

I know the spells you are talking about.
1. Wild Bolt
2. Earthquake

Those are like the only 2 spells everyone loves to complain about. And both were changed rightfully so. Maybe some people like to fight dirty on AI enemies, and that's fine, but when fighting real people, try to have some honor and strategy.
And if you can't (which they couldn't), then KI will do it for them (which they did with the changes).


Although I don't believe they were changed rightfully so (Earthquake's alteration was completely unwarranted and Wild Bolt was changed for the worse), but I wasn't just addressing those two spells. Like I said I'm talking about all the spells and ideas that were immediately thrown out or had to be watered down because of this horrible addition to the game. Lastly, have you seen PvP lately? There's plenty of strategy, but there's nary a shred of honor to be found anywhere in that arena. PvP should no longer affect the game because there's no point. There's always gonna be something. I promise you that.


I agree. I just hope they know that the only reason it took so long for Zafaria to come out was because the complaints in PvP on their spells. To PvP efreet and earthquake were both the most evil things in the spiral. Ice, Fire, and Myth's 58 spells (efreet, snow angel, medusa) were somehow overpowered compared to the rest. Now Sirens is going to blow the minds of complainers. Rain of Fire the new snow angel or what PvPers would call Snow Demon is going to cause a huge tantrum because of the powerful DoT damage. Basilisk is going to make people wish the school Myth was actually a myth with it being able to land at least two Dot damages.
Our next batch of spells might take forever because of the complaining for KI to make 45 and 65 spells. Yes no one forces you to look at the PvP section, but clicking on recent topics when you go to message boards and seeing that almost the entire thing is filled with complaints gets on your nerves. Basicly I agree with you 101%.

Aaron Drakewalker Transcended Pyromancer

Survivor
Jun 06, 2009
7
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
This is not PvP101, but that's what it's turned into!

Every time I enter the Forum it's the same thing. Whenever I hear a spell has been excluded, it's because of PvP. Whenever I hear a spell doesn't work the way it's supposed to, or has been altered for no apparent reason, it's because of PvP. Whenever I hear someone complaining about a school, it's because of PvP. Why did you add this to the game, KI?! You keep "fixing" things to appease the members of some extracurricular activity, and I'm sick of it. Every spell idea has to take PvP into account, and it's really unfair because it's hindering the game something fierce. I'm so close to just saying "forget this game" and closing my account.


people are taking pvp to seriously and need to mellow down there are allot of people who think of this game as more than that and like to spam to win.
and the storms new spell sirens needs to be fixed cause it is to over powered

Explorer
Mar 15, 2011
90

I realize the post is somewhat old here, but in response to AkihiroHattori's original post, no, I don't think PvP is quite ruining this game. I don't think it can go that far. However, I agree with you that PvE is and always should be the main focus of the game. The quests are, when I'm doing them with friends and so forth, way more fun. In fact, compared to PvP, there is no comparison. Many of my good friends dislike PvP as a general routine activity because of all the little children in the arena who swear around the filter in PvP trying to sound impressive. True, there is a Block Enemy Chat button, but on the other hand sometimes wizards who aren't wise enough to realize they give up strategy and I like to pick up on that. One of my dearest wizard friends has been verbally harassed in the arena; in ways referring to anatomy that you can only taunt a female, if you catch my drift. So you are very much right when you say there is hardly any "honor" at all in the arena. In fact, in some small way that probably won't amount to much in the end, one of the reasons I like to PvP is for the idea of bringing some honor to the arena. Laughable, perhaps, I know, but hey.

However, now I am finding as many if not more problems with PvE that are making me consider deleting my account:

1. The power of Storm. I am not saying reduce any spell or change any spell or change any effect of any storm spell, but the problem is Storm is boring to be around. There is no point to casting anything: Period. And I even have a legendary Storm wizard and many times get sick of my own power on it. Sirens is an awesomely boring spell, in my opinion. Yeah, it wipes out everything in its path. Great! What's next? Nothing. But boredom. Whenever around Storm, there is hardly any point in casting your own spells, unless, of course, your life and healing. One gets tired of being a punching bag for NPCs while Storm Wizards take forever to blade up their big hit. And it doesn't necessarily stop with Storm wizards either. Why pick on poor storm wizards? Power in general has been boosted into the stratosphere and the result is complaisance and boredom.

2. Shields/Resist/Criticals/Block/Armor Piercing. Why does it all feel like too much to me? It would be different if all these things were fun but they simply aren't. All this layering of ways to block hits and get around blocks of hits and get around getting around block of hits. Oh yeah let's get shields. Oh yeah let's resist behind that. Oh yeah let's get Critical and stand everything on its head. Oh now everyone blocks. Oh now let's Pierce shields and resist so the beginning doesn't mean anything anymore. I am not saying I can't cope with all this even in a PvP setting. Like I said, it would be different if any of it were actually enjoyable.

3. Zafaria and Wintertusk were, all in all, pretty fun places to quest. The level 58 pets were super fun and I don't know about anybody else but I love spell quests. Too bad, the power of wizards came along and wrecked it.

My overall point: KI did such a great job with Wintertusk and Zafaria, why was it necessary to miff everything up with, for instance, Waterworks?

Being powerful simply isn't enough for this wizard, PvP or PvE.

2