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Idea for fair pvp

AuthorMessage
Survivor
May 11, 2009
4
This is not a rant on the pvp system or how it works. But i have an idea how to make pvp just a little more fair to everyone involved. It deals with the rotation and how the person going second is always at a disadvantage.
A simple way to fix this would be to have each player get there turn seperatly. Having both players pick there cards at the same time always puts the second player in a very tough spot. For instance when player one uses an attack and drops a shield or casts the second player has no way to counter the move untill his next turn which most of the time is too late since the first player can go again before the second player has time to react. And when the second player goes the first player can counter before the second player can get his strategy in place. IE cards like feint, tower shield are huge advantages to players in the first position but are almost useless to players in the second hole.

2 scenerios with identical cards but different outcomes based on player turn position.

Player one casts Feint player two casts blade
Player one casts Judgement player two dies
player two is dead before he can counter the feint judgement combo

Player one casts blade player two casts feint
player one casts tower shield player two casts judgement
player one lives because he could counter the feint

This is a growing problem with the amount of treasure cards and an almost endless supply of tower shields.

This is not really a fair outcome and sure you would say its 50% chance of going first but wouldnt it be more fair and a better idea of how good you are if it wasnt a rotation base but instead of a turn base for pvp. If the second player had the same ability to cover up cards like feint or repair a broken shield like the player going first it might make the matches take longer on average but would make it so the second player was no longer disadvataged when in a duel. The over all outcome would be fair.


Survivor
Apr 02, 2009
45
kamikazee wrote:
This is not a rant on the pvp system or how it works. But i have an idea how to make pvp just a little more fair to everyone involved. It deals with the rotation and how the person going second is always at a disadvantage.
A simple way to fix this would be to have each player get there turn seperatly. Having both players pick there cards at the same time always puts the second player in a very tough spot. For instance when player one uses an attack and drops a shield or casts the second player has no way to counter the move untill his next turn which most of the time is too late since the first player can go again before the second player has time to react. And when the second player goes the first player can counter before the second player can get his strategy in place. IE cards like feint, tower shield are huge advantages to players in the first position but are almost useless to players in the second hole.

2 scenerios with identical cards but different outcomes based on player turn position.

Player one casts Feint player two casts blade
Player one casts Judgement player two dies
player two is dead before he can counter the feint judgement combo

Player one casts blade player two casts feint
player one casts tower shield player two casts judgement
player one lives because he could counter the feint

This is a growing problem with the amount of treasure cards and an almost endless supply of tower shields.

This is not really a fair outcome and sure you would say its 50% chance of going first but wouldnt it be more fair and a better idea of how good you are if it wasnt a rotation base but instead of a turn base for pvp. If the second player had the same ability to cover up cards like feint or repair a broken shield like the player going first it might make the matches take longer on average but would make it so the second player was no longer disadvataged when in a duel. The over all outcome would be fair.

Wow, you did a good job on this. I totally agree with you :D

Geographer
Feb 14, 2009
835
it is completly fair, A you can train for feint and tower shield.
B. you can buy them at bazaar
C. you can win them from enemies
D. it is 50 50 chance you are first
E. what isnt fair is that lvl 18 people have to fight lvl 50

Delver
Sep 25, 2008
203
Another idea hopefully comes soon that if you disconnect during a pvp battle you don't lose your rank. I lost because my computer just went back to windows and I had to restart. So please make it that you don't lose or win rank points if someone disconnects during the pvp battle.

Survivor
May 11, 2009
4
I understand this is a somewhat fair the way it is. Im just voicing an opinion how to make both players have the same ability to protect themselves in a match. The second player to go needs to double stack there defense to protect themselves from a surprise attack. Like a wand that removes there shield or a boost put on with no ability to guard yourself. If you have done a lot of pvp as I have you know that the first turn holder has a huge advantage in all matches. If player one knocks down a shield how is player 2 supposed to react to that. Its easy for player one he just pulls a tower from his treasure deck making it twice as hard for player 2 to do any damage. Same goes with heals and other defensive spells. Player 2 has no ability to surprise player 1 in a match and needs to do twice as much damage to win.
I have grandmaster life wizard and balance wizards and I know there strengths and weaknesses. They both have a very easy time winning matches in the 1 hole do to its adherent advantages. I also know how powerful judgement is with a feint cast. I would like to see the matches a little more balanced for both duelists. Regaurdless of there casting order.


Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
Another idea is to introduce a speed stat to determine who goes first, like in pokemom. This stat can increase as you level or remain constant as you level and only be increased by special gear that gives a speed boost but poor stats.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

Survivor
Dec 31, 2008
37
Maryanne20 wrote:
Another idea hopefully comes soon that if you disconnect during a pvp battle you don't lose your rank. I lost because my computer just went back to windows and I had to restart. So please make it that you don't lose or win rank points if someone disconnects during the pvp battle.

I understand your pain; but what's going to stop people from intentionally crashing their computers to Windows in order to prevent themselves from losing rank?

Delver
Sep 25, 2008
203
Excuse me, but it was an accident not on purpose. So buzzaroo, don't tell me about on purpose, because it still not fair. Even if people intentionally quit is because they have a right to not lose their rank. It would be better. So what if they change it, it won't matter because you stay at 500, like at the beginning of making your character. A tip I learned is if the opponent looks strong, press esc then quit, before the timer, you don't lose rank or mana. If you press esc during battle, you still lose rank, but you don't lose mana. Either way you can not duel for another 5 minutes.

Survivor
Jun 15, 2009
4
People, stop hijacking this thread.. OP hit the nail on the head, the enormous advantage to the player going first is skews the game way too much. I recorded my results for my last 28 fights after reading this, hope this anecdotal evidence will convince KI to improve the system.. I am sure a quick query of their database could verify that the first to act player is a huge favorite.

I am lvl 40 / Fire / Commander. I fight exclusively heads up, usually against grandmasters and kept seperate stats on Balance because they are so tough for me. Here are the stats.

Overall: 16-12
Going first: 10-3
Going second: 6-9

Vs Balance: 3-4
Vs Balance going first: 3-1 (only because I've been buying treasure card Tower Shields)
Vs Balance going second: 0-3

I used to play Magic: The Gathering tournaments, so I know about the value of position and timely information. The best solution here is to allow each player to make their decisions IN TURN, the second best solution would be to alternate who goes first each round.

Survivor
Nov 16, 2008
17
cbfan14 wrote:
Another idea is to introduce a speed stat to determine who goes first, like in pokemom. This stat can increase as you level or remain constant as you level and only be increased by special gear that gives a speed boost but poor stats.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer


I really like this idea. Bigger spells should probably be cast last as it should "well, theoretically" take longer to gather the mystic energies.

Ties are decided by a simple random coin flip. If you don't know who will go first, you strategy will definitely be different.

Survivor
Apr 06, 2009
1
Antoher possiblity is to have it random each round who will go first. Who says that it has to stay constant. If KI alternates who goes first then people will only cast spells when they go second then first the next round. However, if you are not sure who is going first that evens the match.

Option two is that the lower player always goes first. Althought this would just increase your level 49 players since very little advantage of going after that next level.

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
16
I think the idea of seperate turns for each side will catch on quickly in wizards. player 1 does feint two casts tower if they can, it's the same as being first for both sides, totally eliminating first turn advantage. making things equal

and i'm a balance wizard who wants judgement taken out. i'm tired of people calling it cheap, i think it would be great if in place of judgement balance got a similar attack to the hydra, the chimera, which attacks with death life and myth. i heard that idea from someone else and liked it, i hope kingsisle reads this and does something along those lines, maybe make it 6 pips also, it would certainly give balance the ability to use those spirit traps and blades we get for free.