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Dueling things needed to be looked into

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 28, 2008
39
Hey everybody

I seem to find myself making very long threads usually complaining about something or another. This is second rant geared towards PvP and all it's bugs and things that need to be changed.

BIG BUG (Insecto Supremus)
This bug is widely known, also called the skip bug.

This is caused by a person fleeing in a PvP duel. Something about having a person disappear messes up the dueling system and first what happens the turn after is that all spells get shifted to the left. A Storm Blade to Sun ends up with Eye and so on and so forth. Usually later in the duel, the bad part happens. The remaining members on a team at this point, (It usually only affects one side), choose a card and target but the system instead skips them. The only exception are Shield cards, Global cards, Blades, and healing spells. So in short all attack cards. This leaves the team wide open to attack since Offense is usually a big role in Defense. Without an opponent. there is nobody to attack you. Big bug that obviously needs to be fixed as soon as possible. Those subscription dollars have to be going somewhere.

Spells
I didn't make this post just about that, i also needed to point out some spells i think are overpowered, or their effect is too harmful in PvP.

Earthquake
Possible the one that needs to be changed the most. For those who don't know what earthquake is or even how it works, i'll explain. It is a 6 Pip Myth Spell gained at level 42 from Cyrus Drake. It is so far the weakest 6 Pip spell in the game. The reason it's so useful is because of another effect it has. Apart from about 350-420 damage (Guessed), it removes ALL SHIELDS and ALL BLADES from whoever it hits. I even think it affects traps too. For some of the more advanced duelists, this is a real problem and drastically changes the tide of the battle. As a wise duelist usually knows, attacking any Life wizard first and defeating him, removes the chance of him/her constantly healing the group. They are usually targeted first and because of this, they tend to have a lot of shields to protect them. After using this card, all protection goes away and a well-timed Triton or Helephant could knock out your healer. This spell affects any students on the Offense. They lose all their blades to increase their spells damage. A card they thought would be enough to defeat would hardly get them to half. This spell is too powerful in PvP. Either change it to a few Wards/Blades, or eliminate the spell altogether from PvP.

Choke/Blinding Light
As many of you may know, these two spells stun all enemies for one round at the cost of 2 pips. They are from the Fire school and Myth school for those who wanted to know. In the beginning of a high level duel, time is crucial to put up wards and prepare for attacks, as well as putting up blades for your own offense. With somebody using this, you could miss out on a precious turn to prepare. Even worse, if your low on health and a teammate was about to heal you, that is eliminated giving the other team time to finish you or the healer off. This isn't too bad used once. But it gets very annoying twice or even three times in a row. This changes the tide nearly as much as Earthquake or the Big Bug can. All this does it make the other team pass over and over while you heal, shield yourself, or attack while they do nothing. You might as well just have characters with nobody playing them at that pace. Remove all stuns completely because nobody enjoys being stunned 3 times in a row and being at a big disadvantage.

Tempest
Some know of this spell, some don't. It is a Storm spell gained at level 28 from Halston Balestrom and it is for students whose main school is Storm. What this does is it does 80 damage to all opponents per pip. This may not seem that much but it really adds up with blades and everything. Let me show you: The maximum amount of pips you can have is when you get all power pips (14). That's 80 damage each pip times 14 pips which is 1,120 damage already to everybody on the field. This alone would wipe out most players ranging from 10-15 in level. Lets add a Storm Blade too. 1,120 + 30% (336)= 1,456. But wait, you also had A storm blade from Elemental Blade too. That's another 35% (392) added to get 1848 to everybody. I'm level 45 in the Storm School and have 1,718 health with my normal gear. This just wiped the field for most players. But lets say Darkwind is in play. This is a Global spell that increases all Storm damage by 25%(280). Here's 2128 damage to EVERYBODY. But lets say for the fun of it, you have a Windstorm in play which is an extra 20%(224). We're at a total of 2352 damage to everybody in play. With this much damage, usually only well-geared players and high level Ice Wizards are still alive. I realize that most people will have some shield, but by the time you have this all set up, they'll be gone and players with health gone as well. So for the most part, if you set this up right and use it at the right time, You can win the duel instantly. I realized this spells power when i did over 2,000 damage to everybody in a duel once. Ever since, i've never used Tempest in PvP. It is just too powerful. I suggest to remove this from PvP along with the stuns. Speaking from experience.

Sorry for another one of my very long posts. Hope to see you all out there!


~ Hunter Thunderblood

Explorer
Sep 02, 2008
73
Stormrunner is right on the money.

However, I would alos like to add this:

1. Minotaur = You have to have two Myth shields up to protect yourself because his first swing is weak (takes out the shield) but his second swing hits hard. JUST give him ONE swing with that might axe.

2. Balance Wizards = Still no way to really protect against balance spells (i.e. judgement) except for the tower shields. For me being a fire wizard they cost me gold. Maybe it is time to have a balance shield with 80% protection?

Survivor
Dec 28, 2008
39
Minotaur: You are correct on that spell, it is annoying it hits twice. I think since the spells no longer have bonus damage in duels, it might be better for now. But with blades and everything, it is pretty powerful. Maybe kill the first attack and it might be ok.

Balance: You are pretty right. The only balance defense we have are tower shields and those protect any attack. All you need is somebody to use a wand card and the Balance person uses Judgement. Create a balance shield or do some serious looking into with Balance. Weakness, black mantle, judgement. One of the most overpowered classes besides Myth. Having one is now the ultimate ally. Earthquake, minotaur, and 2 pip stuns. Whoopee!

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
22
i for once think that all myth spells should be left alone! taking away shields blades traps etc. is the entire theme of a myth wizard! earth quake is a great example it is a high level card that takes away all shields or blades on the target but wait it only does 310 damage exactly with out a blade or trap i mean come on. it only does 310 whats the big deal! taking away shields and blades makes up for its low damage!.

However i think the entire balance thing needs to be changed judgment in my opinion is the strongest card without a blade they really need a balance shield. it is completely unfair that only the spirit armor and and the watch tower shield can block. only a igh lvl ice wizard can survive it with mabey 200-400 health. they need to have mabey a few more shields or lower the damage to 80 per pip so a high lvl wizard still can survive it and have a more intresting duel instead of a very quick round were balance is victorious every time!


Explorer
Mar 07, 2009
65
1. Earthquake= DISAGREE this spell find as it is. It not over powering at all. It sucks but easy to handle.

2. Tempest= DISAGREE nothing a storm shield can not fix and weakin.

3. Minotaur= DISAGREE yea it attack two time no big deal just make sure you packing heals and neg charms.

4. Judgement= DISAGREE tower shields and weakin (and some other tricks make a bad day for balance).

5. Choke, etc etc (any stun card)= AGREE(only for 2v2,3v3,4v4) These card show be band from those PvP match types. In a 1v1 stun do not give much of an advantage to the wizard.

Survivor
Dec 28, 2008
39
Military, you don't seem to be seeing the same side i am. I don't know your level or if you duel much but once you participate in a high level duel (35+) you will see the importance of shielding and why earthquake is such an issue, along with tempest. By the time your ready with tempest any storm shield put up will be gone or can be taken away very fast. With judgement your wrong i'm afraid. Tower shields are ice only which means unless you've dipped into their school you have to buy tower shields for 175 a piece from the library. Considering i could just use my blade to get rid of a tower in a heartbeat, judgement still hits full blast. I seem to find Balance the scarcest of all classes meaning that you don't see many high level balance wizards nowadays. Weakness is taken out unless you want to dip into that tree or buy cards. So balance.. is still same.

@zargof

I expected the highest resistance with earthquake in debating because of low damage, taking away shields and blades, etc... What i don't think people get is the importance of shielding the healer in a duel. Take away all of their protection, and they're sunk, as well as your team. It's hard to rebuild 3 sets of shields (About 12 turns of shielding) when it's gone as soon as they get 6 pips (as little as 3 turns). Also, it may be 310 damage but add a Blade+ Spirit Blade+Balance blade+ Maybe Time of Legend, and you have over 1,000 damage easy. It has the potential to be very powerful, plus attacking all enemies, plus getting rid of shields/blades.

I happily await more disagreement :)


P.S. We all seem to agree balance is too powerful without a proper shield. You can get rid of a tower shield in one turn no problem, you need a balance spell to kill a shield

Explorer
Feb 09, 2009
58
I would disagree on the change to Minotaur.

You can't buff the spell well for the same reason it's harder to defend against it. Your buffs only effect the first small swing.

In order to buff it you have to buff twice, the same way you need to put up two shields to defend against it.

Other than that it's just a moderate 4-500 point attack.

Leave it like it is.

Survivor
Dec 28, 2008
39
Well i guess after considering Minotaur never was that powerful. Often hitting 500 damage between the two swings. If anything were to change from this post KingsIsle, ignore minotaur :)

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Stormrunner,

I don't really know what you're expecting out of shields. I realize their importance but just like anything else there are ways around them. Wanding a shield is a very viable tactic and it takes considerable skill in the TIMING of when you put up a shield for it to be effective. Most shields are speed bumps anyway. Earthquake also removes any POSITIVE traps your Teammates may have thrown so there is an added downside to the spell. Feint, Hex, Curse, Elemental/Spirit Traps etc...

Your complaints about Tempest and Judgement don't seem very valid to me either. They are simply spells that have powerful effects. There are alot of those in this game. and alot of ways around them. Weakness does wonders and as far as Tower Shield is concerned....If you didn't put 5 points into Ice for not only Tower Shield but also Thermal Shield aswell, then you didn't spec your Wizard for PvP.

Why not complain about DoTs like Fire Elf or Heckhound. Those spells are real shield destroyers too. Seems to me that your dependence on shields and healing may actually be hurting your Dueling. Why not try other strategies and stop complaining about spells that are working as intended.

Explorer
Sep 02, 2008
73
My goal, when I duel, is really to have fun. (I rarely do ranked dueling) To play in a duel 2v2,3v3,4v4 where the players are stun happy OR when a myth casts earthquake followed next by their friend's tempest spell tends to wipe out everyone OR when a player whipes out my tower shield (with a wand attack) then it is emmidiately followed by judgement by their partner. This to me kind of takes the fun / challenge out of dueling and perhaps there is a fairness issue.

Now I know some of you out there will say it's all about stragegy. But for me if it wasn't fun, fair, and challenging then it really wasn't worth my time to do that duel. I even have certain players I won't duel against for named reasons above and in this post (or they are just plain rude).

All that I ask/request is the KI reveiw some of the spells mentioned above for fairness in the dueling arena. How about making my SCOLD spell do more damage per pip like tempest or judgement? I am sure lots of players would like that? LOL

Survivor
Dec 12, 2008
12
I have also experienced the passing bug but instead it was in my favor. It was four people against me and only one person was able to attack me or do anything while the rest of them all passed.

I would also like to add that Minotaur is part of the Myth school. Myth school is also known for trickery (for a lack of better words). Wizards who are in this school need the attacks they way they are because each school has their own advantages like:

Wizards in Life school are able to heal other people when needed.

Wizards in Storm has very powerful attacks but usually have low health.

Wizards in Ice school are able to steal shields and have a lot of health but in compensation they have less powerful attacks.

These are just to name a few. If myth school had its ability to avoid some of the Myth shields then that school would loose one of its own unique advantages. Each school has its own advantages and disadvantages and Myth School's is trickery (there I go again, using that word for a lack of a better one).

Ok, better stop before I end up rambling too much. :-)

Hope this helps. See you in the Spiral,

David DragonWraith

Mastermind
Oct 17, 2008
339
As an ice wizard, it is hard for me to be defeated in one turn from a single attack. Not only does our school have the high health, but we also have Tower Shield and our own absorb spell, Ice Armor. So I have some trouble seeing where you are all coming from. But I have dueled with my sister before, a life wizard, and she doesn't have as much health as me. I always notice that she is dying very quickly (though maybe that is just because she is life and targeted first) and I do think something about this should be changed.

Minotaur:

You say that you don't like it because you need two shields. Yes, I have been attacked by this spell and it is rather frustrating. So I suggest that instead of banning it, you either decrease its overall damage or make the first blow, the one that takes the shields, much stronger than the second. That way the strongest blow will not hurt as much, and the second will be as if you already have a shield on you.

Stun Spells:

I have only recently learned that there are stun spells outside of the ice school. I have only ever known the spell Freeze, and until a little while ago I had no idea that there were others. In fact, I only found out the names of these spells today.
So since I had never heard of them, obviously I haven't ever seen them used. But I can imagine what it would be like to never be able to cast a spell. It would be like the bug mentioned except the other team would lose pips for it. But since I have my own stunning spell, I don't want them banned. Personally I only put one Freeze in my deck because unless you have nothing else to use, then I think it is a waste of a turn. But if you don't have anything else, then it is a wonderful way to use something without passing. So I believe that these spells are fine as they are.

Tempest:

I have seen the power of this spell, though it was always in my favor. Yes, I think that it is too powerful and something should be done. Maybe Tempest could not take as many traps or blades. I really don't have any idea how to fix this though other than decrease damage, and I know most storm wizards would not be happy.

Balance Spells:

Like I said before, I am an ice wizard with Tower Shield, so I see no need for balance shields. Maybe there should be more spells like Tower Shield, though, that shield against everything. That would certainly fix the problem. Or you could make the Tower Shield treasure cards cost less. I hope someone else has better contributions on this matter than me.

Earthquake:

This particular spell is one of the biggest enemies of ice wizards. We are known for our shields, and without them we are very vulnerable, even with our high health. When you get to level 38, you get the Ice Blade card. This is very helpful to use, since we don't hit much otherwise. But a single Earthquake could ruin our plans to use an Ice Wyvern or Colosolous. I guess that destroying the shields isn't a big deal, but I think the blades should stay there. Perhaps there could be another spell that destroys all blades and hits all players.

Sorry, that was very, very long. I hope some of my suggestions were helpful.

~Sierra Winterbreeze, Level 38 Ice/Death Thaumaturge

Survivor
Aug 09, 2008
20
If anything should be changed to Earthquake, it should be increase the damage to like 355(the same strength as robe Earthquake).
Yes it removes blades and shields, that is what it is suppose to do. It has weak attack, and is 6 pips. It is underpowered, or just right.

Minotaur is not a strong spell. Myth does not have a DoT spell like fire, ice and death do. So it needs to get rid of multiple shields somehow. Minotaur 2nd attack is only like 445. That is not a lot of damage, and even with a few blades, it is hard to get it to hit over 1000 damage.
So yes you need to shields, but keep in mind, all other schools need only 1 trap on the enemy, myth needs 2.

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
22
:D :D :D :D i am a lvl 38 myth wizard in mooshu and i have seen earthquake in action in the arena and i do admit it is a move that should be looked in to a little but my question is that are you trying to get earthquake removed or fixed to have different effects could you please tell me what you intend on happening to the spell because i really want to get the spell i am four levels away. Also you said it could do one 1000 damage. so what unless your a apprentice or novice you have nothing to worry about but your complaining about it taking away shields and doing high damage (1000) with a couple blades. are you a novice or something? only a novice would complain about that. beacuse a novice could be killed by it lol. but whatever you say.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
Why are we continuing to talk about minotaur when its been settled that it doesn't need to be changed? Myth's new spell, orthrus, is far superior to minotaur, (perhaps even better then earthquake.) Minotaur may do two attacks, and earthquake removes all blades and traps, but i've seen orthrus DO BOTH OF THESE, with increased damage to boot. how it works is that first head does a weak attack that wipes EVERY SHIELD on the target, even if it doesn't shield against myth, then it does a second attack that will deal 600-700 damage without buffs( can go around 1000-maybe even 2000 if buffed). as for the chain stuns, i'm afraid its gonna get worse now with the release of storm lord and frost giant. Shields are a nice thing and all, but they just are not going to work at the high levels of play, not with spells like these being added. best thing a life wizard can do in group pvp is outheal the competition by filling the deck almost completely with heals( with tower shields in treasure deck or a few regular ones in main deck although they wont last. trust me.)
As for ice, well they have frost giant so they're good(thanks to chain stun :()

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
22
i cant wait till i get the orthus card it sounds so awesome i am level 38 just ten more levels to go :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Explorer
Mar 14, 2009
88
the whole piont of pvp matches is just to have fun and you dont need to be an ice wizard to avoid the balance spell you can get if you train for the abosrb armer in the life spell am an icewizard so i dont have to worry about these things theres also one of my favirote spells the ice armer it absorbs 125 per pip one time i had 14 pips (all of them were power pips) so then when i used the armer i had over 1000 protection from the armer so when ever my oppent did the mintuar it just causes me a zero because i used the armer.i dont see why they should ban all these spells from pvp matches exept the earthquake one




level 43 icewizard

Survivor
Dec 15, 2008
26
LOL, and why just the earthquake one? Because you don't like it?



~ Catyana

Survivor
Sep 01, 2008
21
well all these spells seem fine to me it really does not matter if you win or lose you can ban them if you want but what ever you do please please please dont ban stun i am just about to get a card that stuns all enemys i really dont want to get my spell right when they ban stun so dont ban start please SabrinaMistStone ice

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
22
megantler wrote:
the whole piont of pvp matches is just to have fun and you dont need to be an ice wizard to avoid the balance spell you can get if you train for the abosrb armer in the life spell am an icewizard so i dont have to worry about these things theres also one of my favirote spells the ice armer it absorbs 125 per pip one time i had 14 pips (all of them were power pips) so then when i used the armer i had over 1000 protection from the armer so when ever my oppent did the mintuar it just causes me a zero because i used the armer.i dont see why they should ban all these spells from pvp matches exept the earthquake one




level 43 icewizard






i am finally a lvl 44 myth wizard and have earthquake i hate to admit that it does seem un fair in pvp but listen if there is traps earthquake removes those to even if it is not a myth trap. so it is a dis advantage to every one even the person using it wich hsppened to me on several occasions.so my point is earthquake earthquake puts both the wizard using it and the wizard not using it at a dis advantage.









Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
NO, earthquake is perfectly fair in that it helps tremedously against stallers (those who try to put up an overabundance of shields.) If people are having trouble with earthquake, it's because they don't time their shield casts properly. To get any kind of actual use out of shields you need sharp instincts on when your opponent is going to play their big spells. Playing shields just to make a human fortress is NEVER a sound strategy as the strongest defense will ALWAYS collapse on itself. Thats why if you get a lot of shields removed by earthquake, it was because you set them up too soon (people could also remove those shields with damage-over-time spells or even STEAL THEM). Besides Myth gets the far superior Orthrus at level 48 so if you may as well deal with Orthrus first if you gonna continue to come after earthquake.

Survivor
Apr 26, 2009
11
Earthquake is a huge problem especially when the other teams plan is to have myth lined up first to knock out the other players shields and the rest of the team uses their AEs to insta-win.

Minotaur is fine as is since it is not entirely lethal with the blades traps and such.

Tempest is very powerful but leaves you with nothing after you cast it which is a drawback especially if you need to heal yourself or an ally, or prepare for the next assault.

Judgement is a huge problem and should have a functionality change. Such as dealing the same damage it currently has to an enemy for each pip that enemy has, hench, Judgement. WEEEEE!

Stuns are annoying and deadly especially if a team has one dedicated to stuns. (All stuns and reshuffle) I don't know of anyone doing this but it sounds fun lol.

Defender
Feb 07, 2009
155
grieversloth wrote:
Earthquake is a huge problem especially when the other teams plan is to have myth lined up first to knock out the other players shields and the rest of the team uses their AEs to insta-win.

Minotaur is fine as is since it is not entirely lethal with the blades traps and such.

Tempest is very powerful but leaves you with nothing after you cast it which is a drawback especially if you need to heal yourself or an ally, or prepare for the next assault.

Judgement is a huge problem and should have a functionality change. Such as dealing the same damage it currently has to an enemy for each pip that enemy has, hench, Judgement. WEEEEE!

Stuns are annoying and deadly especially if a team has one dedicated to stuns. (All stuns and reshuffle) I don't know of anyone doing this but it sounds fun lol.


Myth is supposed to remove shields AND blades and traps. It removes everything around a player. What's wrong with it? It puts people using at a disadvantage. Plus, as I said in another post, what if someone countnously used Tower Shield or absorb shieds? That's why they have earthquake: To remove All charms and shields.

Survivor
Apr 26, 2009
11
thefireball123456 wrote:
grieversloth wrote:
Earthquake is a huge problem especially when the other teams plan is to have myth lined up first to knock out the other players shields and the rest of the team uses their AEs to insta-win.

Minotaur is fine as is since it is not entirely lethal with the blades traps and such.

Tempest is very powerful but leaves you with nothing after you cast it which is a drawback especially if you need to heal yourself or an ally, or prepare for the next assault.

Judgement is a huge problem and should have a functionality change. Such as dealing the same damage it currently has to an enemy for each pip that enemy has, hench, Judgement. WEEEEE!

Stuns are annoying and deadly especially if a team has one dedicated to stuns. (All stuns and reshuffle) I don't know of anyone doing this but it sounds fun lol.


Myth is supposed to remove shields AND blades and traps. It removes everything around a player. What's wrong with it? It puts people using at a disadvantage. Plus, as I said in another post, what if someone countnously used Tower Shield or absorb shieds? That's why they have earthquake: To remove All charms and shields.


That's fine 1v1 but any more than that Earthquake is overpowered.

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
22
cbfan14 wrote:
NO, earthquake is perfectly fair in that it helps tremedously against stallers (those who try to put up an overabundance of shields.) If people are having trouble with earthquake, it's because they don't time their shield casts properly. To get any kind of actual use out of shields you need sharp instincts on when your opponent is going to play their big spells. Playing shields just to make a human fortress is NEVER a sound strategy as the strongest defense will ALWAYS collapse on itself. Thats why if you get a lot of shields removed by earthquake, it was because you set them up too soon (people could also remove those shields with damage-over-time spells or even STEAL THEM). Besides Myth gets the far superior Orthrus at level 48 so if you may as well deal with Orthrus first if you gonna continue to come after earthquake.




ya i know i just said all that stuff about earthquake so people would stop complaining and play the game lol btw i am lvl forty five

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