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Down-Ranking

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jul 04, 2009
11
Dear KI,

I would like for you to consider a slight modification to the arena, in reference to the issue of down-ranking.

Down-ranking, as I am sure you are aware, is the practice of intentionally losing matches to lower your rank, thus forcing the game to match you with less experience, and less well-equipped players.

Now down-ranking in itself is not so much the issue as the use of full arena equipment at low levels. When a player fights their way up to commander and achieves some of their equipment, they often (but not always) down-rank to be matched against new players who don't have the same arena equipment, putting the new player at a distinct disadvantage. This allows the down-ranking player to gain arena tickets quicker.

As I see it, if KI found it appropriate for privates to have partial, or sometimes full, arena gear, it wouldn't be a required commander item.

With this in mind, I would like to ask you to consider limiting the use of arena equipment to, as an example, within 100 points of the rank in which the player is required to achieve to purchase the equipment. I think that's fair enough to allow players to achieve the level, purchase the equipment, then experience 4 or 5 setbacks in their quest to continue building their rank. But once that player is more than 100 points from the appropriate rank, they should not be allowed to enter a match with a lower-ranked player while wearing that equipment. If they are wearing commander equipment, they should have to fight a commander, or at the very least, a knight. If they want to down-rank to private, then should have to take off that equipment to fight a private.

I think making a modification similar to this suggestion would allow new players an opportunity to begin their pvp fun without being at such a disadvantage against players who are both more experienced and over-equipped for the level.

Thanks for listening!

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
848
A very good point. Certain equipment is only attainable at certain levels,and should only be equipped at that level. This is how most other mmorpg's do it,and it would curtail players who like to do nothing more than exploit a games weaknesses.

Defender
Dec 21, 2008
187
This happened to me once. I was battling a knight who was life with commander gear and I was captain. He took me down very easily because he was first, and has commander gear.

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
So I should be punished for skill? I downrank frequently. Why? Easy - have you ever tried to get a game at the overlord level? It's impossible. I've waited an hour, sometimes more. Also, at the beginning I needed tickets. When I first made warlord, I wasn't even within earshot of getting my robe, let alone robe, shoes, and hat.

I want a game. I want tickets. I have to rank down. Does this mean I get to pick on the W101 PvP equivalent of the fat kid who gets picked last at dodgeball? Yup, 'fraid so. Hate the game, not the player.

I do me. You do you.

Survivor
May 10, 2009
41
MissVickie wrote:
Dear KI,

I would like for you to consider a slight modification to the arena, in reference to the issue of down-ranking.

Down-ranking, as I am sure you are aware, is the practice of intentionally losing matches to lower your rank, thus forcing the game to match you with less experience, and less well-equipped players.

Now down-ranking in itself is not so much the issue as the use of full arena equipment at low levels. When a player fights their way up to commander and achieves some of their equipment, they often (but not always) down-rank to be matched against new players who don't have the same arena equipment, putting the new player at a distinct disadvantage. This allows the down-ranking player to gain arena tickets quicker.

As I see it, if KI found it appropriate for privates to have partial, or sometimes full, arena gear, it wouldn't be a required commander item.

With this in mind, I would like to ask you to consider limiting the use of arena equipment to, as an example, within 100 points of the rank in which the player is required to achieve to purchase the equipment. I think that's fair enough to allow players to achieve the level, purchase the equipment, then experience 4 or 5 setbacks in their quest to continue building their rank. But once that player is more than 100 points from the appropriate rank, they should not be allowed to enter a match with a lower-ranked player while wearing that equipment. If they are wearing commander equipment, they should have to fight a commander, or at the very least, a knight. If they want to down-rank to private, then should have to take off that equipment to fight a private.

I think making a modification similar to this suggestion would allow new players an opportunity to begin their pvp fun without being at such a disadvantage against players who are both more experienced and over-equipped for the level.

Thanks for listening!
i agree with you completely, because you are not completely getting rid of this down ranking problem, But you are making it a lot more fair so a poor low level with normal gear doesnt get killed in a few turns and if they are a higher rank lose 30 points.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
possumman14 wrote:
So I should be punished for skill? I downrank frequently. Why? Easy - have you ever tried to get a game at the overlord level? It's impossible. I've waited an hour, sometimes more. Also, at the beginning I needed tickets. When I first made warlord, I wasn't even within earshot of getting my robe, let alone robe, shoes, and hat.

I want a game. I want tickets. I have to rank down. Does this mean I get to pick on the W101 PvP equivalent of the fat kid who gets picked last at dodgeball? Yup, 'fraid so. Hate the game, not the player.

I do me. You do you.



It takes little to no skill to play with everything stacked in your favor. This does not make you a good pvp player, only makes you a bully.

Survivor
Jul 04, 2009
11
possumman14 wrote:
So I should be punished for skill?


Absolutely not. If you had the skill to climb that quickly without gear, by all means, us it again. Down-rank to your hearts content. And take off your gear. Or, give the new players a fighting chance and give them equal gear.

possumman14 wrote:
I downrank frequently. Why? Easy - have you ever tried to get a game at the overlord level?


Yes I have. I have several grandmasters who pvp. And I wait just like the rest of the warlords do. Perhaps this would be less of a problem if all the warlords weren't down-ranking to private and veteran.

possumman14 wrote:
Also, at the beginning I needed tickets.


And there it is. This is cheating the system to get what you want, instead of working for it appropriately.

possumman14 wrote:
Does this mean I get to pick on the W101 PvP equivalent of the fat kid who gets picked last at dodgeball? Yup, 'fraid so.


You are exactly right, however, let's use a little nicer verbage, shall we? You are an advanced player picking on new people. And remember some of these new players are young children, learning how to pvp. So, if you have to exploit little kids to make yourself feel all powerful... by all means.

possumman14 wrote:
Hate the game, not the player.
Don't take it so personally. I don't hate either. I think this is an awesome game and I want a be a part of making sure it stays that way.

possumman14 wrote:
I do me. You do you.
Perhaps then, you should find a more appropriate venue for "doing you." Let's not ruin it for the kids.

Survivor
Jul 04, 2009
11
soulstaff wrote:
i agree with you completely, because you are not completely getting rid of this down ranking problem, But you are making it a lot more fair so a poor low level with normal gear doesnt get killed in a few turns and if they are a higher rank lose 30 points.


I think you've touched on the true nature of the problem. It's that people who look for ways to cheat the system take the fun out of it for everyone else. And if they have the talent to pummel the low ranks, that's fine, they worked hard to hone that talent, however using the advantage of high ranked gear to tip the balance of power completely in their favor is not fair. It is very possible for a player to continuously meet up with these over-armored warriors at a very low level and lose enough points that they will never climb past private. That can't possibly be fun for them. I think a few of the adults in the game have forgotten that:

1. This is supposed to be fun for EVERYONE.
2. There are very young kids in our midst.
3. We are setting an example for fairness (or the complete lack thereof)

I'm not suggesting spoiling anyone's fun, just spreading the joy a little.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
848
possumman14 wrote:
So I should be punished for skill? I downrank frequently. Why? Easy - have you ever tried to get a game at the overlord level? It's impossible. I've waited an hour, sometimes more. Also, at the beginning I needed tickets. When I first made warlord, I wasn't even within earshot of getting my robe, let alone robe, shoes, and hat.

I want a game. I want tickets. I have to rank down. Does this mean I get to pick on the W101 PvP equivalent of the fat kid who gets picked last at dodgeball? Yup, 'fraid so. Hate the game, not the player.

I do me. You do you.


Nothing about what you are doing involves skill. To "downrank" as it is being called, is simply a game exploit. I personally don't care if you do it, but to sit there and think you are being skillful is laughable. Most things in this game require a simple modicum of common sense to determine if they are intended, or go against the games "spirit"<exploitative>. You seem to be unable to fathom the difference.

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
I do a public service to these children by showing them that life isn't fair, and that mommy can't sugar-coat the bullies and kiss boo-boos after a certain level.

This is valuable advice in life's lessons I'm shelling out. At the cost of 12-15 rank points, you get useful critique that will prepare you when you go to school, get a job, or encounter the mean people.

Don't like it? Don't tell them to PvP. My fun is ruining yours.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
848
possumman14 wrote:
I do a public service to these children by showing them that life isn't fair, and that mommy can't sugar-coat the bullies and kiss boo-boos after a certain level.

This is valuable advice in life's lessons I'm shelling out. At the cost of 12-15 rank points, you get useful critique that will prepare you when you go to school, get a job, or encounter the mean people.

Don't like it? Don't tell them to PvP. My fun is ruining yours.


I am simply amazed at your ignorance. Nothing about you 'exploiting" a games weakness,teaches any kind of life lesson' other than the fact that there are indeed cretins in this world who will do anything to lie,cheat, or steal their way ahead of others. Exploit the game all you want, but trying to rationalize it,just makes you look like a bigger buffoon than you already are.

Explorer
May 22, 2009
94
Something that nobody seems to consider in this is, some grands (like i was) arent very good in the arena! I tried my best, but my rank still plummeted to 200's at the speed of light. All you talking about "down-ranking" are just upset that you're fighting a grand that cant pvp for their life. So lay off, KI is going to do nothing about this, because theres nothing to be done. And if something is, than you're punishing people for being bad at the arena! so lay off people who cant pvp, and deal with a loss, life isnt fair.

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
My "skill" is that I ascended through the ranks too quickly to really earn gear without getting at a level where waiting for games becomes a hassle and a chore. In addition, you can sit there and swing your ethical stick around all you want - it doesn't bother me. Also, if you think your petty insults phase me, they don't. Your little pseudo-intellectual whine falls on deaf ears here, buddy. People like you are the ones who make me happy to punish these annoying little brats in-game. So keep feeding me your tears - they taste delicious.

Incorrectly calling it an "exploit" doesn't earn you any badge-kissing points either. You just may be some quasi-hero to the underage pleebs that log in. If that's what you want to be, do it. I'll be your anti-hero, and do a better job at it than you.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
848
possumman14 wrote:
My "skill" is that I ascended through the ranks too quickly to really earn gear without getting at a level where waiting for games becomes a hassle and a chore. In addition, you can sit there and swing your ethical stick around all you want - it doesn't bother me. Also, if you think your petty insults phase me, they don't. Your little pseudo-intellectual whine falls on deaf ears here, buddy. People like you are the ones who make me happy to punish these annoying little brats in-game. So keep feeding me your tears - they taste delicious.

Incorrectly calling it an "exploit" doesn't earn you any badge-kissing points either. You just may be some quasi-hero to the underage pleebs that log in. If that's what you want to be, do it. I'll be your anti-hero, and do a better job at it than you.


The more you respond,the bigger the hole you dig for yourself. I do not care if you exploit,and that is exactly what it is. The really humorous thing is that you think of yourself as "skillful" for doing it. You are correct about one thing though, "anti-hero" does describe you,and you most certainly are better at it than I am. Enjoy your ignorance, I'm sure you will do well with it. :D

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
Why not just keep saying, "Oh yeah? Well I'm rubber and you're glue". Your post would be more valuable that way.

Historian
May 02, 2009
698
yellow867 wrote:
Something that nobody seems to consider in this is, some grands (like i was) arent very good in the arena! I tried my best, but my rank still plummeted to 200's at the speed of light. All you talking about "down-ranking" are just upset that you're fighting a grand that cant pvp for their life. So lay off, KI is going to do nothing about this, because theres nothing to be done. And if something is, than you're punishing people for being bad at the arena! so lay off people who cant pvp, and deal with a loss, life isnt fair.


I have to agree with you on this.

My main wizard is fire/storm, and during my adept days, I managed to get to veteran rank (and even defeat a master life wizard 1v1 with her minion out), but when I started pvp'ing at higher levels, I lost my edge, and my rank quickly plummeted back down to private. Ever since then, the highest I've ever gotten (besides veteran at adept) is corporal, which faded soon after (kinda the same with my myth, who at around level 14 became a knight, but then lost it at higher levels, but I need more practice with him at his new level).

I also kinda agree that arena gear at lower ranks seems to decimate the competition of those who wear the best gear they can. I can win one match and then quickly lose the next (again, since I have lost my touch that I had as adept).

When I face lower leveled opponents, I try to customize my deck to use only cards that are around their level (e.g. If I'm facing a magus, I fix my deck to use only spells at and below rank 4-5) to give them a fighting chance (and i'm not ashamed to admit it, it's given me an enjoyable challenge).

But anyway, I do kinda feel that people should give less experienced players a fighting chance (like if I ever get arena gear and face a less experienced player, i would use normal gear). It would not only provide a nice, fun challenge to the more experienced player (and also to the less experienced player as well), but also give them a sense of accomplishment so to speak.

Seth ShadowCloud-Grand fire/storm-former pvp veteran
Seth EmeraldFlame-Journeyman(lv.19)myth-former pvp knight
Seth GhostHaven-Initiate(lv.14)death
Terri GhostStone-Initiate(lv.14)life-pvp sergeant currently
Logan StarBloom-Initiate(lv.14)storm
A good friend.

Survivor
Jul 23, 2009
9
yellow867 wrote:
Something that nobody seems to consider in this is, some grands (like i was) arent very good in the arena! I tried my best, but my rank still plummeted to 200's at the speed of light. All you talking about "down-ranking" are just upset that you're fighting a grand that cant pvp for their life. So lay off, KI is going to do nothing about this, because theres nothing to be done. And if something is, than you're punishing people for being bad at the arena! so lay off people who cant pvp, and deal with a loss, life isnt fair.


This post is pure win!
I love it.

On the subject of downranking, I must say its not a exploit at all. Pretty much everyone who has climbed to the warlord level has had to face people who were geared when they themselves did not have any arena gear.

Guess what? They still did it. Sure it takes longer and you often lose against geared people but its not JUST the gear. If someone has their full arena it means they have been in the arena. ALOT.
They have invested considerable TIME and EFFORT to get their gear, which they should have the right to wear no matter what. They didn't get it by "exploiting", they EARNED their rank.

I'm getting my 4th wizard to warlord and I've fought several people who were arena geared while I was still wearing my bazaar gear. Does it happen ALL the time? No, of course not. Out of 10 matches, maybe 1 person.
You just deal with it and move on.

Finally, if your main problem is that you want your kids to have an enjoyable pvp experience, why not take them to several PRACTICE matchs and actually TEACH them how to pvp?

That would be a better solution then trying to make everyone else get rid of their gear.

Historian
May 02, 2009
698
icelydeath wrote:
yellow867 wrote:
Something that nobody seems to consider in this is, some grands (like i was) arent very good in the arena! I tried my best, but my rank still plummeted to 200's at the speed of light. All you talking about "down-ranking" are just upset that you're fighting a grand that cant pvp for their life. So lay off, KI is going to do nothing about this, because theres nothing to be done. And if something is, than you're punishing people for being bad at the arena! so lay off people who cant pvp, and deal with a loss, life isnt fair.


This post is pure win!
I love it.

On the subject of downranking, I must say its not a exploit at all. Pretty much everyone who has climbed to the warlord level has had to face people who were geared when they themselves did not have any arena gear.

Guess what? They still did it. Sure it takes longer and you often lose against geared people but its not JUST the gear. If someone has their full arena it means they have been in the arena. ALOT.
They have invested considerable TIME and EFFORT to get their gear, which they should have the right to wear no matter what. They didn't get it by "exploiting", they EARNED their rank.

I'm getting my 4th wizard to warlord and I've fought several people who were arena geared while I was still wearing my bazaar gear. Does it happen ALL the time? No, of course not. Out of 10 matches, maybe 1 person.
You just deal with it and move on.

Finally, if your main problem is that you want your kids to have an enjoyable pvp experience, why not take them to several PRACTICE matchs and actually TEACH them how to pvp?

That would be a better solution then trying to make everyone else get rid of their gear.


You make a very valid point there. I know for a fact that not all people get to their high rank by "exploiting" the system; they used the skills they had to climb up in the rankings (like I did as adept). Those people are probably who prove that people can be the best that they can be without cheating or exploting the systems, and they deserve praise as well.

I dont think that most of us think about those people who really try their best using what they have at the time, and I think if we look at how hard they worked to get there, that maybe we can work to become better at what we do too.

Defender
Dec 23, 2009
129
Well, you have to remember that while PvP exists, the game is really not centered around it. Thus, if you have any discernable skill in PvP you're going to be head and shoulders above the masses here. I came here to wean myself off of WoW and MMOs as a whole, and I climbed up through the ranks on all of my guys because I was basically just kicking stray dogs. Most of these kids have little to no clue about strategy or deck construction.

Suddenly you have to be a self-apologist for being like that. Everything's about "being fair" and "doing the right thing" and whiny parents crying streams of tears about how their kids stink at PvP and we warlords are just bullying them like the fat kids at dodgeball.

Those kinds of people are why I rarely play anymore. They're practically intolerable now, and probably will soon be witnesses to the big fat kid taking their lunch money at recess because mommy and daddy told them that always smiling and saying please will win over the world.