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Defensive Spells Needed

AuthorMessage
Explorer
May 15, 2009
55
Defensive Spells Needed

We defensive wizards need more defensive spells that are both efficient and effective. At the moment the only reliable spells we have are Weakness and Bad Juju.

Weakness is efficient, but ineffective. Stacking Weakness makes it effective, but at the cost of a turn it becomes inefficient. Bad Juju is effective, but inefficient at the cost of 3 pips and hit to self.

This can become an issue when faced with an opponent who can practically defeat you in a single turn. When a single Weakness fizzles or isn't enough, and/ or when a Bad Juju has whittled down both your health and your pips.

Below I've proposed a few ideas that I feel fit the bill. These ideas aim to soft counter currently available spells. I'm a Necromancer in Wizard101, and so I speak from personal experience when I say I LOVE Bad Juju, and would like to see an upgrade to my favorite spell (Sorry Animate I love you too).

Diego Spells

Shadownova(1 shadow pip): Destroy target transformation, deal backlash

Global Spell(2 pips): -25% Armor Piercing, +15% accuracy

Death Spells

Ugly Juju(5 pips): 3 x -90%, 300 hit to self

Ice Spells



Life Spells



If any or wizards would like to chime in with a suggestion please do, because I'm not familiar with PvPing either of those schools.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
I would disagree.
Weakness and bad Juju are very effective in battle.
If you want to play defensively I take it you want to tank.
Bad Juju when tanking doesn't take much health up to 100 at max.
Hitting self can be beneficial when taking off weaknesses or some kind of debuffs.
Weakness is also not useless or inefficient. Costs 0 pips and -25%. stack it up with a TC weakness and very efficient. But I always say that there is a time when weakness can be used.

Nicholas Star

Defender
Dec 20, 2012
133
Well, I am a little bit in the school of ice, so they have a few shields, but I'm not sure about the whole thing. They have Tower Shield and Ice Armor, plus Frozen Armor and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Plus Life has the Spirit Armor. I don't know if thats what you were looking for or not, but i hope I helped.

Ashley Battle
Grandmaster Sorceress
Level 51

Mastermind
Nov 19, 2014
365
DreamGalleon21154 on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
Well, I am a little bit in the school of ice, so they have a few shields, but I'm not sure about the whole thing. They have Tower Shield and Ice Armor, plus Frozen Armor and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Plus Life has the Spirit Armor. I don't know if thats what you were looking for or not, but i hope I helped.

Ashley Battle
Grandmaster Sorceress
Level 51
shield now become useless (vs shadow shrike) ice allot spell with shield (most is there tc) favorite ice tc is: Krokhotep (3 of those) each one different effect!

1st one (single)
2nd one (steal shield & add 200 ice absorb armor
3rd one (snow drift)

all of them attack

favorite one is second one (because steal shield)
http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/File:(TreasureCard)_Krokhotep_(Pharaoh%27s_Hoard_Pack).png

people mostly right about critical and armor pierce (does make it better) defense boss monster questing/ mods questing (hardly critical block) under how powerful monster is (harder to win to survival the duel mostly likely to only PVP/PVE got to overpower (with critical/armor pierce)

but good to have tank wizard (become useful harder dungeon) KINGSISLE Make there Boss (Immune Armor Pierce) I Know KINGSISLE because know allot new world questing trick up to is sleeve!

no offense Kingsisle XD

Explorer
May 15, 2009
55
mykola230 on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
I would disagree.
Weakness and bad Juju are very effective in battle.
If you want to play defensively I take it you want to tank.
Bad Juju when tanking doesn't take much health up to 100 at max.
Hitting self can be beneficial when taking off weaknesses or some kind of debuffs.
Weakness is also not useless or inefficient. Costs 0 pips and -25%. stack it up with a TC weakness and very efficient. But I always say that there is a time when weakness can be used.

Nicholas Star
I never said Bad Juju was ineffective. I said that it is inefficient, because it costs 3 pips, but can be removed with a 0 pip wand spell. Actually it can be removed by any attack spell from 0 - 2 pips thereby losing pip war. I understand the benefits of Bad Juju all to well as it is the staple in my PvP deck, and is why I am at Commander right now.

High level PvP is pouring with wizards using gigantic amounts of damage, critical, and pierce.

Weakness is no longer effective by itself in high level PvP, and must be stacked to be effective. Anyone can deal massive damage through a single weakness. Stacking weakness means taking an extra turn to cast the second weakness, and not only that, you have to hope the opponent hasn't removed the other one yet. From second position attempting to stack weakness is a complete waste of a valuable turn.

We are currently in a fast paced PvP meta, and we cannot afford to just give away turns casting a negligible 25% weakness. You mentioned TC weakness which is not efficient in it's own right since they're limited, I was referring directly to stacking trained weakness with an enchanted weakness.

I can say that even if the weakness is stacked, the amount of damage can still be insane. I use Jade gear, and I'm immune to fire, and I've taken enough direct hits from Fire from Above to know that they CAN destroy me with just 50% of their attack power. This is because of pierce, and I think it stands to reason that we need more defensive spells to be more prepared for this power should we have to face it.

This is coming from a very defensive PvP player, but it is equally important for those who wish to attack a lot. IF a person casts shrike it would be nice to have the option to counter that spell. I also can't imagine a Death, Life, or Balance wizard who wouldn't be happy to have a Global spell that evens the playing field.

I really think you should read the original post again. I think you've misinterpreted my points.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
DreamGalleon21154 on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
Well, I am a little bit in the school of ice, so they have a few shields, but I'm not sure about the whole thing. They have Tower Shield and Ice Armor, plus Frozen Armor and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Plus Life has the Spirit Armor. I don't know if thats what you were looking for or not, but i hope I helped.

Ashley Battle
Grandmaster Sorceress
Level 51
Well in Exalted PVP Ice Armor or Frozen Armor isn't really used that much at all.
And it's not that useful. Also life's Spirit Armor is prob even worse.
But Tower Shield is better in every way.

Nicholas Star

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
143
XxMEGAxX on Jun 5, 2015 wrote:
I never said Bad Juju was ineffective. I said that it is inefficient, because it costs 3 pips, but can be removed with a 0 pip wand spell. Actually it can be removed by any attack spell from 0 - 2 pips thereby losing pip war. I understand the benefits of Bad Juju all to well as it is the staple in my PvP deck, and is why I am at Commander right now.

High level PvP is pouring with wizards using gigantic amounts of damage, critical, and pierce.

Weakness is no longer effective by itself in high level PvP, and must be stacked to be effective. Anyone can deal massive damage through a single weakness. Stacking weakness means taking an extra turn to cast the second weakness, and not only that, you have to hope the opponent hasn't removed the other one yet. From second position attempting to stack weakness is a complete waste of a valuable turn.

We are currently in a fast paced PvP meta, and we cannot afford to just give away turns casting a negligible 25% weakness. You mentioned TC weakness which is not efficient in it's own right since they're limited, I was referring directly to stacking trained weakness with an enchanted weakness.

I can say that even if the weakness is stacked, the amount of damage can still be insane. I use Jade gear, and I'm immune to fire, and I've taken enough direct hits from Fire from Above to know that they CAN destroy me with just 50% of their attack power. This is because of pierce, and I think it stands to reason that we need more defensive spells to be more prepared for this power should we have to face it.

This is coming from a very defensive PvP player, but it is equally important for those who wish to attack a lot. IF a person casts shrike it would be nice to have the option to counter that spell. I also can't imagine a Death, Life, or Balance wizard who wouldn't be happy to have a Global spell that evens the playing field.

I really think you should read the original post again. I think you've misinterpreted my points.
I do see your points however I must say the following things.
  • 90+ PVP is effected by Shrike. Therefore Weakness isn't really effective.
  • Most of the time if you want to use Juju then it mostly means spam.
  • Weakness should not be used until you have solid juju.
Now since I made those points. Yes, weakness is not effective and sometimes can cost you allot and/or put you in the disadvantage. However there is a time for every card or spell. There are times when you can use weakness and there are times when you can't. Having good hand and controling both your opponents and your hand is the key. I don't see the point in using Bad Juju that is not solid (By solid I mean that you always have juju on the opponent) If you want Solid Bad Juju then you mostly have to spam them. Weakness is the good way to pass the round. What I mean by that is Juju takes 3 pips while placing Juju in use Weakness to recover pips. Therefore you have weakness and Bad Juju stacked up. It takes allot of practice but with good hand control it's not hard to achieve.

Nicholas Star


Explorer
Oct 23, 2011
81
DreamGalleon21154 on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
Well, I am a little bit in the school of ice, so they have a few shields, but I'm not sure about the whole thing. They have Tower Shield and Ice Armor, plus Frozen Armor and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Plus Life has the Spirit Armor. I don't know if thats what you were looking for or not, but i hope I helped.

Ashley Battle
Grandmaster Sorceress
Level 51
He is talking of exalted PvP, not level 10 PvP. Spirit armor, ice armor and frozen armor are totally useless at exalted PvP.

Survivor
Apr 18, 2015
5
How about a defensive spell what has mirror in the name.

Mirror's Eye- caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
The Artic Mirror-caster takes -25% opponent take 25% of incoming attack
Reaper's Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Solar Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Mind's Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Grand Oak Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Lighting's reflection-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
The Caster of the attack spell takes half of the spells attack power after blades but no traps bonus. and the target of the attack spell takes half of the attack with traps add on.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
Shadow Nova- Needs to deal backlash to the caster- not the person transformed.

Star Global Spell- Balanced as stated

Ugly Juju- That is way too overpowered. At most it should be 5 pips for 2 bad juju.

Explorer
May 15, 2009
55
Eric I think you make a good point about Shadownova - But I think we have to agree to disagree. As far as Ugly Juju is concerned we already have triple traps for fire, and triple dispel diffuses for balance. A double Juju is still very effective, but then I'd argue that the pips be 4 and not 5.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
XxMEGAxX on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
Eric I think you make a good point about Shadownova - But I think we have to agree to disagree. As far as Ugly Juju is concerned we already have triple traps for fire, and triple dispel diffuses for balance. A double Juju is still very effective, but then I'd argue that the pips be 4 and not 5.
With either variant of ugly juju, it would still be overpowered, especially with the 3 weaknesses. It would be possible to use empower to be able to use ugly juju every other turn, which would make it impossible for an opponent to get a clean attack in.

Explorer
May 15, 2009
55
Aaron SpellThief on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
With either variant of ugly juju, it would still be overpowered, especially with the 3 weaknesses. It would be possible to use empower to be able to use ugly juju every other turn, which would make it impossible for an opponent to get a clean attack in.
Any wizard is allowed to cast a spell every other turn to minimize their opponents damage. These defensive spell are designed with the intent of reducing incoming damage from an opponent.

In regards to your statement, "It would be possible to use empower to be able to cast Ugly Juju every other turn". I'd like to make sure we aren't confusing strategy with game mechanics, because what you've described is a strategy, and not a game mechanic. Game mechanics make strategies, strategies don't make game mechanics.

There are currently many attack spells available that can easily remove a weakness. So I'd like to debunk the idea that an opponent could never get in a clean attack, because it is not true.

Although, after careful analysis, I'm prepared to propose Ugly Juju should cost 4 pips and 300 to self for a double Juju.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
XxMEGAxX on Jun 17, 2015 wrote:
Any wizard is allowed to cast a spell every other turn to minimize their opponents damage. These defensive spell are designed with the intent of reducing incoming damage from an opponent.

In regards to your statement, "It would be possible to use empower to be able to cast Ugly Juju every other turn". I'd like to make sure we aren't confusing strategy with game mechanics, because what you've described is a strategy, and not a game mechanic. Game mechanics make strategies, strategies don't make game mechanics.

There are currently many attack spells available that can easily remove a weakness. So I'd like to debunk the idea that an opponent could never get in a clean attack, because it is not true.

Although, after careful analysis, I'm prepared to propose Ugly Juju should cost 4 pips and 300 to self for a double Juju.
I think you misunderstand me. With empower, it would be possible to cast this spell every other turn. It takes 2 turns to remove 2 weaknesses that don't stack, assuming your pet doesn't have a may cast attack talent or your wand casts an attack. Therefore, if this spell cost less than 6 pips and placed 2 weaknesses, it would be near impossible to get a clean attack in if someone spammed it and empower. I personally don't want a meta that is COMPLETELY dominated by death jade spammers, so I would never agree with the ugly juju idea specifically.

Explorer
May 15, 2009
55
I think to say that the meta would be completely dominated by "Death Jade Spammers" is not a fair assessment. Allow me to explain.

The "Ugly Juju" spell is not the issue here. It is the strategy. Ugly juju "spam" could never defeat an Aggro player that focused on attacking every single turn. It would not be possible, and eventually they'd run out of resources to defend themselves, and they'd take too much damage to catch up. They'd be under constant pressure, discarding many needed cards like bubbles, shields, and heals, and in the end the aggro player would win. I know this because I play with defensive gear, and it is always aggro players who defeat me.

[AGGRO] beats [CONTROL] beats [COMBO] > [AGGRO] ... and the cycle continues.

To defeat "Control" strategy:

It is best to use an "Aggro" strategy. An "Aggro" strategy consists of attacking every turn and creating threat presence. The idea behind "Aggro" is to end the match as fast as possible by constantly bombarding opponents with attacks (With 1, 2, 3, and 4 pip spells). The release of Malistaire gear makes this strategy very possible, and very doable, for countering "Control" strategies. Aggro beats control, because control players counters can't keep up with an aggro players constant pressure, and eventually they run dry of resources to survive. With the amount of pierce available (pierce bubbles, infallible, and shrike) it is easy to cast tons of low pip spells that deal a ton of damage when the pressure gives way usually resulting in a control player's loss.

At the moment, the meta is filled with Aggro and Combo players. Why? It's because the newest gear/jewels/spells that've been released, are geared toward those two particular styles of play. What do I think about that? I think it's great! I like that we can now choose between being a powerful Aggro, or tricky Combo player, and now I'm simply suggesting we add several new spells to help the cunning Control players remain on equal footing.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
XxMEGAxX on Jun 17, 2015 wrote:
I think to say that the meta would be completely dominated by "Death Jade Spammers" is not a fair assessment. Allow me to explain.

The "Ugly Juju" spell is not the issue here. It is the strategy. Ugly juju "spam" could never defeat an Aggro player that focused on attacking every single turn. It would not be possible, and eventually they'd run out of resources to defend themselves, and they'd take too much damage to catch up. They'd be under constant pressure, discarding many needed cards like bubbles, shields, and heals, and in the end the aggro player would win. I know this because I play with defensive gear, and it is always aggro players who defeat me.

[AGGRO] beats [CONTROL] beats [COMBO] > [AGGRO] ... and the cycle continues.

To defeat "Control" strategy:

It is best to use an "Aggro" strategy. An "Aggro" strategy consists of attacking every turn and creating threat presence. The idea behind "Aggro" is to end the match as fast as possible by constantly bombarding opponents with attacks (With 1, 2, 3, and 4 pip spells). The release of Malistaire gear makes this strategy very possible, and very doable, for countering "Control" strategies. Aggro beats control, because control players counters can't keep up with an aggro players constant pressure, and eventually they run dry of resources to survive. With the amount of pierce available (pierce bubbles, infallible, and shrike) it is easy to cast tons of low pip spells that deal a ton of damage when the pressure gives way usually resulting in a control player's loss.

At the moment, the meta is filled with Aggro and Combo players. Why? It's because the newest gear/jewels/spells that've been released, are geared toward those two particular styles of play. What do I think about that? I think it's great! I like that we can now choose between being a powerful Aggro, or tricky Combo player, and now I'm simply suggesting we add several new spells to help the cunning Control players remain on equal footing.
The problem with ugly juju at 2 -90% at 4 pips is several fold. For one juju was made 3 pips to ensure that it isn't cost effective. A 4 pip double juju is just as effective as 1 juju. Secondly 2 jujus for 4 pips means that you can constantly lock out an opponent at all times because it takes them 2 turns to remove a 1 turn commitment by you and by the time said opponent removed both juju's the death wizard would have the pips to launch yet another ugly juju. Third with current deck proportions it is possible to max out 10 ugly juju's. That's 20 negated attacks without factoring in tc ugly juju or regular bad juju. Bad juju and ugly juju combined would negate 30 attacks before shuffle multiplication. After multiplication that's 60 negated hits or in other words a complete shut-out.

Explorer
May 15, 2009
55
Eric Stormbringer on Jun 18, 2015 wrote:
The problem with ugly juju at 2 -90% at 4 pips is several fold. For one juju was made 3 pips to ensure that it isn't cost effective. A 4 pip double juju is just as effective as 1 juju. Secondly 2 jujus for 4 pips means that you can constantly lock out an opponent at all times because it takes them 2 turns to remove a 1 turn commitment by you and by the time said opponent removed both juju's the death wizard would have the pips to launch yet another ugly juju. Third with current deck proportions it is possible to max out 10 ugly juju's. That's 20 negated attacks without factoring in tc ugly juju or regular bad juju. Bad juju and ugly juju combined would negate 30 attacks before shuffle multiplication. After multiplication that's 60 negated hits or in other words a complete shut-out.
You've made a good case about there still being a single turn commitment. So Ugly Juju should be 2 x -90% at 5 pips. I like that the efficiency is there with 2 x -90% for 1 pip less than 2 Bad Juju, and the effectiveness is there as well. Thank you for the helpful feedback.

Survivor
Jun 11, 2009
3
XxMEGAxX on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
Defensive Spells Needed

We defensive wizards need more defensive spells that are both efficient and effective. At the moment the only reliable spells we have are Weakness and Bad Juju.

Weakness is efficient, but ineffective. Stacking Weakness makes it effective, but at the cost of a turn it becomes inefficient. Bad Juju is effective, but inefficient at the cost of 3 pips and hit to self.

This can become an issue when faced with an opponent who can practically defeat you in a single turn. When a single Weakness fizzles or isn't enough, and/ or when a Bad Juju has whittled down both your health and your pips.

Below I've proposed a few ideas that I feel fit the bill. These ideas aim to soft counter currently available spells. I'm a Necromancer in Wizard101, and so I speak from personal experience when I say I LOVE Bad Juju, and would like to see an upgrade to my favorite spell (Sorry Animate I love you too).

Diego Spells

Shadownova(1 shadow pip): Destroy target transformation, deal backlash

Global Spell(2 pips): -25% Armor Piercing, +15% accuracy

Death Spells

Ugly Juju(5 pips): 3 x -90%, 300 hit to self

Ice Spells



Life Spells



If any or wizards would like to chime in with a suggestion please do, because I'm not familiar with PvPing either of those schools.
As a fellow juju spammer while i do agree we need defensive spells these are way too OP 3 -90% is a bit much for just one person. I could see the global spell as a possibility though. Since we got double dispels from the new terror pack double juju would be more reasonable. Also shadownova shouldn't be from diego but a spell quest being how strong it is.

Mastermind
Nov 19, 2014
365
Xertaire on Jun 6, 2015 wrote:
How about a defensive spell what has mirror in the name.

Mirror's Eye- caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
The Artic Mirror-caster takes -25% opponent take 25% of incoming attack
Reaper's Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Solar Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Mind's Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Grand Oak Mirror-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
Lighting's reflection-caster takes -50% opponent take 50% of incoming attack
The Caster of the attack spell takes half of the spells attack power after blades but no traps bonus. and the target of the attack spell takes half of the attack with traps add on.
I make better defense spell then that!

beside ice to low because unfair everybody get same as 50% ice beat least 100% because defense useless at exalted unless (give ice) tower armor pierce shield (would spam those) instead using to replace tower shield!

least wait (next world be next aoe spell) ice/life doesn't AoE for a while they make there damage 1725 (defense/heal unless are exalted)

Mastermind
Nov 19, 2014
365
DreamGalleon21154 on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
Well, I am a little bit in the school of ice, so they have a few shields, but I'm not sure about the whole thing. They have Tower Shield and Ice Armor, plus Frozen Armor and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Plus Life has the Spirit Armor. I don't know if thats what you were looking for or not, but i hope I helped.

Ashley Battle
Grandmaster Sorceress
Level 51
I don't care so, much about ice armor & spirit armor or frozen armor (mostly unless) use those any school be care myth spell (mostly see people do dungeon) vs ice cast absorb as cheat (mostly some wizard be carry myth pierce spell spell)

anyone as farming terror's hoard pack (give me some of you shadow enchanted tc) spell don't want

(trade it give me a) storm/myth/death shadow enhanced tc :)

for mine ice defense spell I use:

death for extra healing can't use life spell people are spam life dispel make useful for me (use death armor) beside able use bad juju (get bad juju tc) farm for plant drop of: Saw Palmetto (they drop bad juju tc)

these are all creature that drop (Saw Palmetto)

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Dropped By: