Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Comparing Wizard101 PvP...

AuthorMessage
A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
Recently I've done my research on many other games, including League of Legends, Pirate101, and other very strategic games, as well as other turn based games or card based games. Then I realized something different that other games had in common from Wizard101 PvP, and I realized. In the lower levels, all of those games were more focused on attack spamming and heal spamming, with very little complexity, mostly relying on the RNG since the players were newer. Then when you level up, the game gets more complicated as defense increases and it takes more than a repetition of the same attack(s) to take out your opponent.

After this observation, I realized that Wizard101 ran a completely reversed system, and I realized why many Exalted players have turned away from PvP and some even from the game itself. In Wizard101, as you're a lower level (1-10), PvP is a very simple shield break and then OHKO process. As you level up a little more (11-38), PvP becomes slightly more complex in that players have higher defense (health, more resources to train more defensive spells, defensive multipliers such as Cloak, and plenty of Reshuffles and minions to distract opponents) with the use of high level treasure cards, which are counterable. As you near level 50, PvP becomes more complex in that your opponent has a solid amount of health, a fairly high block rating, easy access to power pips (allowing heals), more use of mastery amulets, more minions, and there is more of a "middle game" where one side has to take control before winning the match.

Then after this observation, I saw a reverse trend in Wizard101 PvP. The higher the level you go, the more your defense fades away, and the less complex PvP really is. Take a look at Glendemming gear for example; you get 54% universal resist (or 55%) with sometimes around 70% damage boost, with higher block percentage than critical percentage. In other words, a very low RNG play style with more complexity and skill required to win a duel. As you near level 60, this defense fades away and most players normally lie around 42% universal resist and 80% damage. Already, you can see defense fading. As you go up to higher levels, the use of minions, mastery amulets, heals (especially at Exalted) becomes dropped down to nearly nothing, and becomes pretty much useless. Offense in the higher level meta is extremely high, and the RNG takes the largest toll in matches at Exalted PvP.

KI, us players don't level up in a video game to make dueling more RNG based and less skill based, players advance in a game because they want it to become more complex and to have more advanced duels. This is why so many people retreated to Grandmaster PvP, armor pierce being equal to resist at this moment and having Shadow Enhanced Spells overtake most PvP strategies, Exalted PvP is destroyed.

I believe that we need an increase in defense and a more diverse complexity in higher level PvP than just spamming Shadow spells. Does anybody agree?

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
PvP King on Jul 6, 2015 wrote:
Recently I've done my research on many other games, including League of Legends, Pirate101, and other very strategic games, as well as other turn based games or card based games. Then I realized something different that other games had in common from Wizard101 PvP, and I realized. In the lower levels, all of those games were more focused on attack spamming and heal spamming, with very little complexity, mostly relying on the RNG since the players were newer. Then when you level up, the game gets more complicated as defense increases and it takes more than a repetition of the same attack(s) to take out your opponent.

After this observation, I realized that Wizard101 ran a completely reversed system, and I realized why many Exalted players have turned away from PvP and some even from the game itself. In Wizard101, as you're a lower level (1-10), PvP is a very simple shield break and then OHKO process. As you level up a little more (11-38), PvP becomes slightly more complex in that players have higher defense (health, more resources to train more defensive spells, defensive multipliers such as Cloak, and plenty of Reshuffles and minions to distract opponents) with the use of high level treasure cards, which are counterable. As you near level 50, PvP becomes more complex in that your opponent has a solid amount of health, a fairly high block rating, easy access to power pips (allowing heals), more use of mastery amulets, more minions, and there is more of a "middle game" where one side has to take control before winning the match.

Then after this observation, I saw a reverse trend in Wizard101 PvP. The higher the level you go, the more your defense fades away, and the less complex PvP really is. Take a look at Glendemming gear for example; you get 54% universal resist (or 55%) with sometimes around 70% damage boost, with higher block percentage than critical percentage. In other words, a very low RNG play style with more complexity and skill required to win a duel. As you near level 60, this defense fades away and most players normally lie around 42% universal resist and 80% damage. Already, you can see defense fading. As you go up to higher levels, the use of minions, mastery amulets, heals (especially at Exalted) becomes dropped down to nearly nothing, and becomes pretty much useless. Offense in the higher level meta is extremely high, and the RNG takes the largest toll in matches at Exalted PvP.

KI, us players don't level up in a video game to make dueling more RNG based and less skill based, players advance in a game because they want it to become more complex and to have more advanced duels. This is why so many people retreated to Grandmaster PvP, armor pierce being equal to resist at this moment and having Shadow Enhanced Spells overtake most PvP strategies, Exalted PvP is destroyed.

I believe that we need an increase in defense and a more diverse complexity in higher level PvP than just spamming Shadow spells. Does anybody agree?
PvPKing,

I completely agree, and these are exactly why I have quit the game. When you have Sword and shield
versus sword and shield, you need a strategy to win. When you take the shield out of the equation, and
only have high damage Sword to high damage Sword, you don’t’ need a solid strategy to win. This is exactly what KI has done, and it’s why so few PvP now.

If you look at League of Legends, the game is perfectly balanced. Yes, you can use (equivalent of) crowns,
to gain an advantage (but most people do this anyway). You find as you level up, it can almost required.
It’s much like using Treasure cards in PVP, and you know how much you need those.

What bothers me is this, KI should have corrected the problems long ago.There is no reason to have the
Game over 7 years old, and still have this kind of imbalance in PVP. If KI thinks they have a PVP side of the game
that will keep players playing, they are absolutely 100% wrong. If they think that resetting the boards
will bring more people back to rank up, they are wrong.

They should fix the following before the next world, and there is absolutely no reason they shouldn’t.

1. Fix the First Turn Advantage. It’s nothing but insanity to have one person blind in the match.
2. Balance the Wizard back out at level 100, add the spells that are needed.
3. Adjust Resist and Critical Block, so that you can use a strategy in the game again.
(Change the Current Gear, don’t make us waste more time leveling up in a broken meta).
4. Make the Jewel drops fair, equal it out. I have friends that have tons of fire and life pierce,
but can’t get Myth or Death Pierce after months of trying.

Many have been paying for years, have spent way too much money on crowns, have spent tons of time
Leveling up, to still be stuck having a broken PvP match at Level 100. Lets have a little consideration for
your customers that pay your paycheck.

Explorer
Apr 21, 2011
65
A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
gorman moonweaver on Jul 6, 2015 wrote:
what is ohko and what is rng
OHKO is one hit knock-out (or in other words a one shot kill) and RNG is random number generator.

Mastermind
Nov 19, 2014
365
Veracity8 on Jul 6, 2015 wrote:
PvPKing,

I completely agree, and these are exactly why I have quit the game. When you have Sword and shield
versus sword and shield, you need a strategy to win. When you take the shield out of the equation, and
only have high damage Sword to high damage Sword, you don’t’ need a solid strategy to win. This is exactly what KI has done, and it’s why so few PvP now.

If you look at League of Legends, the game is perfectly balanced. Yes, you can use (equivalent of) crowns,
to gain an advantage (but most people do this anyway). You find as you level up, it can almost required.
It’s much like using Treasure cards in PVP, and you know how much you need those.

What bothers me is this, KI should have corrected the problems long ago.There is no reason to have the
Game over 7 years old, and still have this kind of imbalance in PVP. If KI thinks they have a PVP side of the game
that will keep players playing, they are absolutely 100% wrong. If they think that resetting the boards
will bring more people back to rank up, they are wrong.

They should fix the following before the next world, and there is absolutely no reason they shouldn’t.

1. Fix the First Turn Advantage. It’s nothing but insanity to have one person blind in the match.
2. Balance the Wizard back out at level 100, add the spells that are needed.
3. Adjust Resist and Critical Block, so that you can use a strategy in the game again.
(Change the Current Gear, don’t make us waste more time leveling up in a broken meta).
4. Make the Jewel drops fair, equal it out. I have friends that have tons of fire and life pierce,
but can’t get Myth or Death Pierce after months of trying.

Many have been paying for years, have spent way too much money on crowns, have spent tons of time
Leveling up, to still be stuck having a broken PvP match at Level 100. Lets have a little consideration for
your customers that pay your paycheck.
maybe they make new resist talent to block incoming armor pierce damage

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
JustinFrostHunter on Jul 7, 2015 wrote:
maybe they make new resist talent to block incoming armor pierce damage
That could work, actually. Having a new stat called "extra armor" that doesn't negate any damage but just lowers armor pierce would work perfectly fine. This could be made so only new and future gear will get it, so armor pierce can go up and Jading in PvP can finally die out, causing a balance in the game.

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
PvP King on Jul 8, 2015 wrote:
That could work, actually. Having a new stat called "extra armor" that doesn't negate any damage but just lowers armor pierce would work perfectly fine. This could be made so only new and future gear will get it, so armor pierce can go up and Jading in PvP can finally die out, causing a balance in the game.
I personally had an idea a little while ago that would, for example, take your resist down 1-2% for a 4-5% boost of a stat like this. It would be limited in the amount of jewels aloud in gear, so it wouldn't be extremely op, and you'd have to sacrifice some resist if your opponent doesn't have much pierce, not that anyone has low pierce anymore. I think this could balance out pvp somewhat, but critical and other luck-based elements could still definitely be an issue when it comes to extremely fast matches.

Defender
Sep 17, 2011
139
Aaron SpellThief on Jul 9, 2015 wrote:
I personally had an idea a little while ago that would, for example, take your resist down 1-2% for a 4-5% boost of a stat like this. It would be limited in the amount of jewels aloud in gear, so it wouldn't be extremely op, and you'd have to sacrifice some resist if your opponent doesn't have much pierce, not that anyone has low pierce anymore. I think this could balance out pvp somewhat, but critical and other luck-based elements could still definitely be an issue when it comes to extremely fast matches.
How about for every 2% of pierce you loose 1 person of resist.
Currently people have like 30%+ pierce so that would come out to be -15%+ Resist.
It wouldn't be much of decrease and wouldn't really effect battle allot but maybe by at least 30% it would even out.
So people if want to go on pierce then they are defenseless and if they want resist then they don't have much pierce.
Currently struggles with lack of pierce and resist. The strong point of ice was resist but now days it can't use that advantage effectively. And with lack of pierce and good damage it suffers even more greatly.
I think that this will help schools like and as well as other schools.
Tell me what ya think about this.

Nicholas Star

Champion
Oct 30, 2011
449
mykola230 on Jul 9, 2015 wrote:
How about for every 2% of pierce you loose 1 person of resist.
Currently people have like 30%+ pierce so that would come out to be -15%+ Resist.
It wouldn't be much of decrease and wouldn't really effect battle allot but maybe by at least 30% it would even out.
So people if want to go on pierce then they are defenseless and if they want resist then they don't have much pierce.
Currently struggles with lack of pierce and resist. The strong point of ice was resist but now days it can't use that advantage effectively. And with lack of pierce and good damage it suffers even more greatly.
I think that this will help schools like and as well as other schools.
Tell me what ya think about this.

Nicholas Star
I think that, if pierce became like this, it could sometimes be extremely difficult to get through immunity. While I think pierce deserves a nerf, I don't think it deserves one that huge.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
Aaron SpellThief on Jul 10, 2015 wrote:
I think that, if pierce became like this, it could sometimes be extremely difficult to get through immunity. While I think pierce deserves a nerf, I don't think it deserves one that huge.
I think that could be possible actually. Think about it, I have 44% armor pierce on my wizard and if every 2 points of armor pierce counted for one less resist on the opponent, the opponent would have 25% resist left or around that. Most players who do have immunity these days have little to no universal resist. It is completely up to the player to carry spells that could easily go around immunity to their own school (Dark Nova, prisms, etc).

Still though, I think Justin's idea could work perfectly over time, as if only new future gear in future dungeons gets "extra armor" and no gear currently (especially not the new Jade gear), Jade gear could die down in PvP and armor pierce to resist could be balanced once again.

Defender
Apr 07, 2011
156
PvP King on Jul 6, 2015 wrote:
Recently I've done my research on many other games, including League of Legends, Pirate101, and other very strategic games, as well as other turn based games or card based games. Then I realized something different that other games had in common from Wizard101 PvP, and I realized. In the lower levels, all of those games were more focused on attack spamming and heal spamming, with very little complexity, mostly relying on the RNG since the players were newer. Then when you level up, the game gets more complicated as defense increases and it takes more than a repetition of the same attack(s) to take out your opponent.

After this observation, I realized that Wizard101 ran a completely reversed system, and I realized why many Exalted players have turned away from PvP and some even from the game itself. In Wizard101, as you're a lower level (1-10), PvP is a very simple shield break and then OHKO process. As you level up a little more (11-38), PvP becomes slightly more complex in that players have higher defense (health, more resources to train more defensive spells, defensive multipliers such as Cloak, and plenty of Reshuffles and minions to distract opponents) with the use of high level treasure cards, which are counterable. As you near level 50, PvP becomes more complex in that your opponent has a solid amount of health, a fairly high block rating, easy access to power pips (allowing heals), more use of mastery amulets, more minions, and there is more of a "middle game" where one side has to take control before winning the match.

Then after this observation, I saw a reverse trend in Wizard101 PvP. The higher the level you go, the more your defense fades away, and the less complex PvP really is. Take a look at Glendemming gear for example; you get 54% universal resist (or 55%) with sometimes around 70% damage boost, with higher block percentage than critical percentage. In other words, a very low RNG play style with more complexity and skill required to win a duel. As you near level 60, this defense fades away and most players normally lie around 42% universal resist and 80% damage. Already, you can see defense fading. As you go up to higher levels, the use of minions, mastery amulets, heals (especially at Exalted) becomes dropped down to nearly nothing, and becomes pretty much useless. Offense in the higher level meta is extremely high, and the RNG takes the largest toll in matches at Exalted PvP.

KI, us players don't level up in a video game to make dueling more RNG based and less skill based, players advance in a game because they want it to become more complex and to have more advanced duels. This is why so many people retreated to Grandmaster PvP, armor pierce being equal to resist at this moment and having Shadow Enhanced Spells overtake most PvP strategies, Exalted PvP is destroyed.

I believe that we need an increase in defense and a more diverse complexity in higher level PvP than just spamming Shadow spells. Does anybody agree?
Thats why i have more than one wizards. A level 40 storm for enjoying the benefits of complex game style and a level 100 balance, which i use for farming and playing crazy exalted pvp.

I created a new myth just a couple of weeks ago and working on leveling him up to 50 because at this point i miss critical from magus level pvp. In addtiion after i reached 1300 rating with my storm the game became very difficult thanks to the dozens of ice grandmasters with their relatively (compared to mine) op health.

I am planning to try low level pvp as well with a level 10 ice.

The thing i just wanted to point out, that the more different level wizards you have, the more fun you will get from the game. I suppose KI did a great job with making low, mid and high level pvp so different from each other, which resulted a colorful pvp system.

I reckon that making low and mid level pvp more complex than high level is a great stuff as players don't need to play 3-4 months to hit exalted level. With some weeks of playing anyone can reach a decent level for magus pvp, which imho is the best pick when it comes to choose between pvp levels.

To conlcude, pvp is just fine as it is.

Cheers,

Jerry

Jesse and Tristan Dreamcrafter

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1611
Jerry Saibot on Jul 11, 2015 wrote:
Thats why i have more than one wizards. A level 40 storm for enjoying the benefits of complex game style and a level 100 balance, which i use for farming and playing crazy exalted pvp.

I created a new myth just a couple of weeks ago and working on leveling him up to 50 because at this point i miss critical from magus level pvp. In addtiion after i reached 1300 rating with my storm the game became very difficult thanks to the dozens of ice grandmasters with their relatively (compared to mine) op health.

I am planning to try low level pvp as well with a level 10 ice.

The thing i just wanted to point out, that the more different level wizards you have, the more fun you will get from the game. I suppose KI did a great job with making low, mid and high level pvp so different from each other, which resulted a colorful pvp system.

I reckon that making low and mid level pvp more complex than high level is a great stuff as players don't need to play 3-4 months to hit exalted level. With some weeks of playing anyone can reach a decent level for magus pvp, which imho is the best pick when it comes to choose between pvp levels.

To conlcude, pvp is just fine as it is.

Cheers,

Jerry

Jesse and Tristan Dreamcrafter
Though I do agree that variation is nice, it still didn't leave me with the greatest joy when I figured out that after 2012 (Avalon) PvP crumbled down to an extremely luck based meta. "Crazy PvP" is seen at the lower levels, from levels 1-49, where people use high level treasure cards and surprise builds (such as critical gear & pets) where you can do almost nothing about it but try your best to heal it off. This is the same state that Exalted PvP is in, but it's in an unlimited resource and you're not given the tools to even recover from surprise criticals.

I myself do a ton of Magus PvP, I fight many Grandmaster and Transcendent Overlords, and yes, they do critical on me (even through Conviction) many times, but I can still recover from the critical. This is extremely different from Exalted, where if somebody criticals a Shadow Enhanced Spell on you, no matter how good you are, you're as good as dead. Right now, directly spamming attacks is considered a valid successful strategy. In my opinion, if people wanted a meta where PvP was fast paced and relied on crazy luck, they can do Wizard101 trivia for crowns and stick to quick match tournaments.

Also, Grandmaster and Magus aren't perfectly balanced either. They're both metas where you're forced to be one school. You said so yourself, it is difficult to rank up a Storm Grandmaster because of Ice wizards. I main a Balance at Exalted PvP but I have to use an Ice wizard at Magus for best results, which I'm not perfectly suitable with. Both Grandmaster and Magus metas almost deny the use of Storm and Death wizards, which is why Exalted PvP needs to be rebalanced.

Mastermind
Nov 19, 2014
365
PvP King on Jul 10, 2015 wrote:
I think that could be possible actually. Think about it, I have 44% armor pierce on my wizard and if every 2 points of armor pierce counted for one less resist on the opponent, the opponent would have 25% resist left or around that. Most players who do have immunity these days have little to no universal resist. It is completely up to the player to carry spells that could easily go around immunity to their own school (Dark Nova, prisms, etc).

Still though, I think Justin's idea could work perfectly over time, as if only new future gear in future dungeons gets "extra armor" and no gear currently (especially not the new Jade gear), Jade gear could die down in PvP and armor pierce to resist could be balanced once again.
true because allot people use immunity (only reason use in pvp) others school are to overpower reason make immunity (block dangerous boss) like storm spider in mirror lake if had rematch with him they be more dangerous they are with Deep Spawn tagging along with mirror lake storm spider (be more worst and deadly if they had immunity higher upper world) be possible to defeat them!

but want about spell came up with more shadow magic spell?

did make shadow enhanced spell part 2? (who be more op for part 2) mine guess be ice/life only school don't have AoE for while (ice been allot spell with shield or remove) allot of those spell In tc

(need more better useful spell others then steal and shield because others spell that tank can do then shield or stealing? spell be useful had spell remove STUN BLOCK

or

resist armor pierce mostly for armor pierce shield like spear blade from Avalon as 80 spell and wonder how balance fit all there spell one deck if our spell deck only max deck 65
with just one deck

Illuminator
Feb 24, 2009
1359
First turn is the biggest issue in PvP for me.

If you put a fire and a balance in a 1v1, if you want to know who wins, 70%+ of the time it'll be the one with first turn.

You're 100% right. There is too much RNG and random-ness in PvP. Whoever breaks the opponents block wins.