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Bring Back the old PVP

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
16
I think the old PVP system was way better then the new, Not only does the new Pip bug (Where you start with two to three pips) Blow the system but also all the spells damage is increased by 200 damage. Where with the old PVP it would take close to 30 min's for me to beat a player and it felt like i was playing chess, Its now who's spell is the most powerfull and can knock who out first.

Next to levels are way out of wack for rank, Evey time i joined PVP my team ether fled giving me a big disadvantage but also my level is only 33 and i keep end up fighting level 50. There is no dught on who would win on that battle.

Survivor
Sep 10, 2008
1
it would be nice to get rid of the boost. I agree with Jack it was like playing chess. it use to be the most skilled would win the duel. now it comes down to who goes first. I would duel almost every day now I think i will finish out my subscription and stop playing. took all the fun out of it.

Explorer
May 22, 2008
76
i disagree completely. sure there may be a few bugs, but they will be ironed out with time.

long live the new pvp system!

Defender
Jul 31, 2008
102
I think you guys are making a little exageration. Dueling with the new system is NOT at all about who goes first. In a Memorable duel I ( a level 35 Diviner) fought against a sword saint and i won because I could predict his moves to some extent and use the appropiate shield against them. Dueling now is much better than it was before, at least for me.

About the boost, I have mixed opinions. However I think that the boost (as it stands now) makes little diference on the strategy needed, because there is still a great deal of strategy needed to win. As a storm wizard, I would know, not because I am strong, but because I have lost many duels even after going first.

Starting with multiple pips is not a bug, it is an effect given to you by very powerful magic items.

On the damage shift, this was done after extensive testing -- prior to the damage increase, Life spells were far too frequent on both sides, and it was resulting in very high level players almost always ending up in a "draw", they were all simply too defensive. Most duels were ending because all of the players exhausted their decks, and with no one winning or losing.

We have some ideas to deal with the "which team goes first" randomness. As with any new system that comes online, we will continue to adjust it and balance it to make it as fun as possible for all of our players.

Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
16
HeadmasterAmbrose wrote:
Starting with multiple pips is not a bug, it is an effect given to you by very powerful magic items.

On the damage shift, this was done after extensive testing -- prior to the damage increase, Life spells were far too frequent on both sides, and it was resulting in very high level players almost always ending up in a "draw", they were all simply too defensive. Most duels were ending because all of the players exhausted their decks, and with no one winning or losing.

We have some ideas to deal with the "which team goes first" randomness. As with any new system that comes online, we will continue to adjust it and balance it to make it as fun as possible for all of our players.

I rairly Run out of cards becouse I allways keep two reshuffle cards on me. This way i can run over my deck and alowed me in the old system to have a Duel that lasted allmost an hour. I had alot of fun in that one. Now the duels I am in end with in three rounds.

Survivor
Dec 28, 2008
23
Yeah. I can kill people my level in a single shot dealing about 1,900 damage.
All I have to use is a blade and a trap and then hit them once.
Rather pathetic if you ask me.

Survivor
Jan 12, 2009
1
I agree and also disagree, with this new boost of power I have been able to take down players quicker but that comes back to me as well. I am a Life caster i can withstand the bombardment and still pull out the victor but this new system is taking all the skill and fun out of the match. I understand matches went on for a half and hour to an hour the amount of tactics were at peak, now just save up you pips till you can cast you nuke spell and its good game. one spell thats all it really takes is that fun for everyone? getting one shot and it consuming all of your health. i am still mixed on the new PVP but i am standing more on the side to put it back to what its was. :?

Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
16
being a storm wizard makes it hard, I am level 34 and only have 1,334 HP on me with is low. By the time I can cast my +25 shield, my +20 shild, +30% shield on my self and then cast my most powerfull spell its now 7 turns. Alot of other players end up taken me down in 1 to 3 turns. Before the new system I would last a good 50 to 60 turns even in a four on four i was hard to take down.
Next the balance of players, Once more i tryed to play a few more match's last night. Ended up geting upset becouse evey time i did one on one I was fighting a level 50. Where is the fun in that? They had epic gear on allready so with in two moves i was done..How fair is that? I'd love to see that a new part of PVP is open where you can chose between Increased damage or basic like before.
Sadly if you look at the harry potter movies where the wizards dueled they where never over after one cast. Duels had to be planed out...if i attacked you'd have to counter it or take damage.
I sadly dont even have time to toss up a shield card anymore..
thanks for letting me rant there.

Jack007465 wrote:
thanks for letting me rant there.


No problem, thank you for voicing your concerns. Our intent on the balance shift was to make PvP more engaging, not less -- when we originally balanced the game, we did so to make combat against monsters (in which you will fight dozens in a single play session) more fun, and we felt that the rules needed to be tweaked somewhat when applied to PvP. If the result is worse in your opinion, then that is something we don't take lightly. Let me talk to Drake (our lead designer) and see what he thinks. Maybe we can add an update that will allow some variablity in rules sets, so that players can customize the battle before it begins.


Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
The fundamental issue is that damage in pve is generally on the order of 100 per pip, while healing is on the order of 200 per pip, both before various modifiers. If it only costs half as many pips to heal as to deal damage, then it's easy to outheal whatever damage the other player can do if you have enough healing cards.

Survivor
Jul 11, 2008
7
it is bad, very bad!

1. players especially balance can now cast judgement and take over 2500 life EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE A TOWER SHIELD ON!

that means they are doing 5000 or more damage.

i like the new system, but the damage needs to stay the same, WHAT PRACTICE IS IT FOR THE REAL GAME if you are not using the same spells and damage as you are against the monsters!

Healing is part of the strategy, some wizards dont pick life school, and some do. They need to form a strategy to combat this.


a necromancer can use two traps, a death sword, and wraith and take off nearly 5000 hitpoints!

THE NEW DAMAGE IS WAY TO HIGH.

i dont want my duel to end in 5 rounds or so.

if you run out of cards it is your fault, go to the library and buy reshuffle if you dont want to spend the training point to learn it!

Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Perhaps the solution should have been to decrease healing (and by corollary, lifestealing) rather than to increase damage?

Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
16
hofdiddy wrote:
it is bad, very bad!

1. players especially balance can now cast judgement and take over 2500 life EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE A TOWER SHIELD ON!

that means they are doing 5000 or more damage.

i like the new system, but the damage needs to stay the same, WHAT PRACTICE IS IT FOR THE REAL GAME if you are not using the same spells and damage as you are against the monsters!

Healing is part of the strategy, some wizards dont pick life school, and some do. They need to form a strategy to combat this.


a necromancer can use two traps, a death sword, and wraith and take off nearly 5000 hitpoints!

THE NEW DAMAGE IS WAY TO HIGH.

i dont want my duel to end in 5 rounds or so.

if you run out of cards it is your fault, go to the library and buy reshuffle if you dont want to spend the training point to learn it!


See? I allways have two resuffle cards on me, I never run out of cards.

Survivor
Aug 14, 2008
4
We agree (family of gamers here), damage is far too high. Along the lines of the previous post, perhaps lower the heal amount and change damage back to normal? One shots (you're dead) are not the answer.

Possibly too extreme but... limit healing to what is in a main deck, no treasure cards? This way we know that everyone has at least one heal type in their deck and people would play their wizard class with strategy, rather than with a stack of treasure heal cards. ??


Explorer
May 22, 2008
76
Quizzical wrote:
Perhaps the solution should have been to decrease healing (and by corollary, lifestealing) rather than to increase damage?


Could you imagine the complaints this would create for any and all Life/Death wizards?

Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Quantize wrote:
Quizzical wrote:
Perhaps the solution should have been to decrease healing (and by corollary, lifestealing) rather than to increase damage?


Could you imagine the complaints this would create for any and all Life/Death wizards?


I didn't say by how much to decrease healing. That does make a huge difference, you know.

With the release of pvp, I reckon we're about due for a flood of "my class needs to be stronger" and "nerf that other class" posts.

Survivor
Jan 17, 2009
5
I hope this is read by someone who can look into this seriously.. Going against someone in a rated game that is 10+ level's above you has to be fixed and looked at. There should be a level system in placed. Its not fun being level 28 going against a level with 2k more HP then me who hits for 2,000.

Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
16
Quantize wrote:
Quizzical wrote:
Perhaps the solution should have been to decrease healing (and by corollary, lifestealing) rather than to increase damage?


Could you imagine the complaints this would create for any and all Life/Death wizards?

what they should do is alow you to chose between advanced damage or normal combat.

Survivor
Dec 21, 2008
1
the glaring problem to me is i am being penalized for having to fight players ten or twenty levels above me.
the outcome is usually no contest unless they have a very bad draw (unlikely)
i lose way too many points for a fight i have no control over.
and if i were to win are they to lose up to half their rating points for plain bad luck?

the rating system needs to be corrected by level difference, both in rating and ticket rewards.
i do not mind a one sided fight as i get them too. i'd just rather see less of a hit to my rating for a loss by level difference
perhaps if the difference is too great the tickets to the lower level loser could be higher and the rating loss less.
i know this could promote abuse but it does need to be addressed.

Survivor
Dec 24, 2008
16
bilbowb wrote:
the glaring problem to me is i am being penalized for having to fight players ten or twenty levels above me.
the outcome is usually no contest unless they have a very bad draw (unlikely)
i lose way too many points for a fight i have no control over.
and if i were to win are they to lose up to half their rating points for plain bad luck?

the rating system needs to be corrected by level difference, both in rating and ticket rewards.
i do not mind a one sided fight as i get them too. i'd just rather see less of a hit to my rating for a loss by level difference
perhaps if the difference is too great the tickets to the lower level loser could be higher and the rating loss less.
i know this could promote abuse but it does need to be addressed.


Or, you can add a balance system to make it everyone is lowered to the level of the Lowest player on the field.

Survivor
Sep 03, 2008
33
On the topic of different levels playing together, I think nothing should be done differently. When creating a match, the creator can choose which levels can access the match, so people can choose if they wish to play with very uneven levels, or not. I think nothing extra should be done there

On the topic of damage, I really dislike that damage has been increased. I have twice lost a battle before I could throw a single offensive spell. Both times my opponents got me with a trap and a single offensive spell. As a level 24, with 1300 in life force, that is not a battle, that is slaughter.

Survivor
Feb 02, 2009
4
Another idea is to leave things the way they are and add cards (or maybe a percent on attack or something) that can help counter act those "1 shot kills", from what I've seen that's the biggest problem now.

Like having a card that will remove 1-2 buffs/debuffs off a player. When cards like that get in play people are going to start to worry/doubt. "Should I cast all those buffs together, what if he dispells them all and I'm left with nothing later on?"

An idea/system like that will help the game more than just nerfing damage in my opinion.

I think we should keep on changing things to move forward not to go back to how things were. (well in most cases anyways ;) )

Survivor
Feb 02, 2009
4
Actually here is how I would look at the dispell cards.

They'd work much like the regular buff cards but the cards would look more like...

"Remove "+" from Myth, Leaf" or "Remove "-" from Myth, Leaf"

So instead of having 2 buffs put on you (or another player) these cards would remove the same 2 buffs from yourself. (or another player.)

This way people have the CHOICE. If I want to stock my decks up with buffs I can, if I want to stock them up with dispells, I can.

Imagine the possibilities!!

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
snaebra wrote:
On the topic of different levels playing together, I think nothing should be done differently. When creating a match, the creator can choose which levels can access the match, so people can choose if they wish to play with very uneven levels, or not. I think nothing extra should be done there


THIS. I wouldn't be surprised if high level players "forget" about this option when they create their trap...er match. These matches are for Rank and Arena Points. What better way to farms those things than this.

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