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Blades

AuthorMessage
Delver
Jan 18, 2013
224
Since KI is finally doing some school balancing through spells I want to point out something that has bugged me for the longest time and make a suggestion. As we know there is an order of weakest hitting schools like Ice then Life which is appropriate because they have strengths in different areas such as tankieness. Then on the other end of the spectrum you have Myth, Fire then Storm. Which is also appropriate because they are the least tanky.

This all makes sense
Schools tankieness ranked 1st to last:
1.Ice
2.Life
3.Balance
4.Death
5.Myth
6.Fire
7.Storm

Schools damage ranked 1st to last:
1.Storm
2.Fire
3.Myth
4.Death
5.Balance
6.Life
7.Ice

Each school's damage and defense mirrors each other which makes all the schools equally balanced. However the harder hitting schools very quickly become disadvantaged when applying buffs are taken into consideration. In particular blades which are the most commonly used buffs.
We see a pattern similar to above.

Blades:
30%
35%
35%
40%
Balance doesn't follow the pattern for obvious reasons.
40%
40%

To demonstrate my point I will compare the hardest and the weakest hitting schools. I would like to make a comparison between all the schools and spells but there is not enough space. For this comparison I will be comparing Colossus and Triton as they are the highest ranked comparable spells with the same pip cost and no secondary effects. It is less likely buffs would be used for lower rank spells.

Damage with enchant

800-880
1095-1175 26% difference

Damage with enchant and school blade. Ice 40%, Storm 30%.

1120-1232
1424-1528 20% difference

Damage with enchant, blade and sharpened blade.

1680-1848
1993-2139 15% difference

Damage with enchant, blade, sharpened blade and TC blade. Ice 45%, Storm 35%.

2436-2680
2690-2887 8% difference

Damage with enchant, blade sharpened blade, TC blade and IC blade. Ice 45%, Storm 35%.

3532-3885
3632-3897 1% difference

As you can see with the difference in blade strength Ice's damage disadvantage is reduced with each buff. At 4 blades both schools are hitting as hard as each other and beyond that Ice out damages Storm.

It doesn't seem right that the hardest hitting schools get the weakest blades. It should be the other way around or at very least have all school blades, TC blades and IC blades the same strength. For example 35% to match spirit and elemental blades. Also for some reason Ice is the only school that has a 30% trap instead of 25% like all the other schools as well as spirit and elemental trap. This would also need to be changed.

This would help restore a little bit of balance to the game as currently Storm is the most disadvantaged school while Ice is the most advantaged in PvP.

I'm not saying this would completely fix all the balancing problems in the game. I'm just saying it would be a step in the right direction.

Mastermind
Mar 19, 2011
339
Ghost stone on Jul 10, 2020 wrote:
Since KI is finally doing some school balancing through spells I want to point out something that has bugged me for the longest time and make a suggestion. As we know there is an order of weakest hitting schools like Ice then Life which is appropriate because they have strengths in different areas such as tankieness. Then on the other end of the spectrum you have Myth, Fire then Storm. Which is also appropriate because they are the least tanky.

This all makes sense
Schools tankieness ranked 1st to last:
1.Ice
2.Life
3.Balance
4.Death
5.Myth
6.Fire
7.Storm

Schools damage ranked 1st to last:
1.Storm
2.Fire
3.Myth
4.Death
5.Balance
6.Life
7.Ice

Each school's damage and defense mirrors each other which makes all the schools equally balanced. However the harder hitting schools very quickly become disadvantaged when applying buffs are taken into consideration. In particular blades which are the most commonly used buffs.
We see a pattern similar to above.

Blades:
30%
35%
35%
40%
Balance doesn't follow the pattern for obvious reasons.
40%
40%

To demonstrate my point I will compare the hardest and the weakest hitting schools. I would like to make a comparison between all the schools and spells but there is not enough space. For this comparison I will be comparing Colossus and Triton as they are the highest ranked comparable spells with the same pip cost and no secondary effects. It is less likely buffs would be used for lower rank spells.

Damage with enchant

800-880
1095-1175 26% difference

Damage with enchant and school blade. Ice 40%, Storm 30%.

1120-1232
1424-1528 20% difference

Damage with enchant, blade and sharpened blade.

1680-1848
1993-2139 15% difference

Damage with enchant, blade, sharpened blade and TC blade. Ice 45%, Storm 35%.

2436-2680
2690-2887 8% difference

Damage with enchant, blade sharpened blade, TC blade and IC blade. Ice 45%, Storm 35%.

3532-3885
3632-3897 1% difference

As you can see with the difference in blade strength Ice's damage disadvantage is reduced with each buff. At 4 blades both schools are hitting as hard as each other and beyond that Ice out damages Storm.

It doesn't seem right that the hardest hitting schools get the weakest blades. It should be the other way around or at very least have all school blades, TC blades and IC blades the same strength. For example 35% to match spirit and elemental blades. Also for some reason Ice is the only school that has a 30% trap instead of 25% like all the other schools as well as spirit and elemental trap. This would also need to be changed.

This would help restore a little bit of balance to the game as currently Storm is the most disadvantaged school while Ice is the most advantaged in PvP.

I'm not saying this would completely fix all the balancing problems in the game. I'm just saying it would be a step in the right direction.
I take your point but it makes sense that the weaker schools need more blades to get an equivalent damage.

Delver
Jan 18, 2013
224
Liam Swiftwalker on Jul 11, 2020 wrote:
I take your point but it makes sense that the weaker schools need more blades to get an equivalent damage.
Then take away their extra defense because I thought that already made up for it.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
Liam Swiftwalker on Jul 11, 2020 wrote:
I take your point but it makes sense that the weaker schools need more blades to get an equivalent damage.
Not when they are tanks and absolutely not vs storm? that's the definition of broken when that's achievable.

Explorer
May 14, 2011
56
1) Doesnt fire have more damage now.
2) The point of the tank is so they have to build into a hit. Storm and many other schools have counters to this also and storm being able to hit in 1 round while ice needing a buildup over several rounfs is how the schools are supposed to work

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
bobgbt on Jul 15, 2020 wrote:
1) Doesnt fire have more damage now.
2) The point of the tank is so they have to build into a hit. Storm and many other schools have counters to this also and storm being able to hit in 1 round while ice needing a buildup over several rounfs is how the schools are supposed to work
While than is the case, the point the author was making was that it should never be as high as a hitter without the compensation of losing resist. For a hitter to even gain high damage % you will realize a lot of resist is shredded. In the scenario with ice however, having both tank and ability to stack up storm damage makes ice a formidable opponent in pvp. Basically putting them on tier vs hitter class and rendering them useless per say.

Mastermind
Mar 19, 2011
339
angellifeheart on Jul 16, 2020 wrote:
While than is the case, the point the author was making was that it should never be as high as a hitter without the compensation of losing resist. For a hitter to even gain high damage % you will realize a lot of resist is shredded. In the scenario with ice however, having both tank and ability to stack up storm damage makes ice a formidable opponent in pvp. Basically putting them on tier vs hitter class and rendering them useless per say.
The "compensation" is that a school like Life has to spend turns blading up and saving pips for a good hit.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
Liam Swiftwalker on Jul 17, 2020 wrote:
The "compensation" is that a school like Life has to spend turns blading up and saving pips for a good hit.
That's not a "compensation" that's a mandatory objective.

Delver
Jan 18, 2013
224
Some of you are missing the point. Yes Storm does more damage than Ice, and in order for Ice to be able to do the same damage they will have to blade. This would be unfair to Ice if both schools had equivalent defences, but they don't. Let's demonstrate another way.

1v1 Ice vs Storm.
Ice does less damage while Storm has less defence.
Storm does more damage while Ice has more defence.
So actually both schools are doing equivalent damage of each others' health as a percentage. So for example both schools attacking each other with an unbuffed spell with the same pip cost should do around 20% of each other's health.

-> =20% of health
-> =20% of health

And because all the schools mirror each other in damage and defence as I showed in the initial post, all combinations of schools versing each other will damage each other for equivalent damage. The damage percentage will be higher or lower depending on the schools but always equivalent.

For example:

-> =10%
-> =10%

-> =15%
-> =15%

-> =20%
-> =20%

-> =30%
-> =30%

-> =40%
-> =40%

When demonstrated like this:
-> =20%
-> =20%
The fact that Ice does less damage is not unfair.

It becomes unfair when the schools begin to blade.

Both schools damage with a blade:
-> =28%
-> =26%
With blade and sharpened blade:
-> =42%
-> =36%
With blade, sharpened blade and TC blade:
-> =61%
-> =49%

With blade, sharpened blade, TC blade and IC blade:
-> =88%
-> =66%

The fact that Storm has weaker blades and cannot hit equivalent damage when blading is unfair. Storm should be able to match Ice blade for blade and still do the same equivalent damage. This is why all school blades should be made the same strength.

The idea that Ice and other tank schools need stronger blades to make up for their weaker spells is not true because it is already compensated for with their better defences.

Delver
Jan 18, 2013
224
I need to make an update to this post. I don't know how I missed this earlier but not only is Ice's trap unessecerily stronger than all the other schools and needs to be changed but also it's global spell.

Life, Death and Balance all have unique global spells, but all the others, Storm, fire and myth all give a 25% boost except for Ice which gets a 35% boost. This shouldn't be the case.

Ice doesn't need all of these compensations because it's not disadvantaged. Every schools strengths already make up for their weaknesses. Storm's low defense is made up for by its high damage. Ice's low damage is made up for by its high defenses. Giving Ice all these better buffs than other schools is what makes it more powerful than it should be

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
Liam Swiftwalker on Jul 11, 2020 wrote:
I take your point but it makes sense that the weaker schools need more blades to get an equivalent damage.
Not if resist isn't sacrificed as it was explained.