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Balancing pvp, really?

2
AuthorMessage
Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Over on Central, they have a posting (in the PvP section) that shows a listing of why the pvp hierarchy in 1v1, is the way it is. They have listed each Wizard, what abilities make it superior to others, and what each one lacks.

It's very well done, and after you read it, you can clearly understand whey the Fire and Myth wizards have a distint advantage over Death, and Balance. This posting does not really go into the Master Amulets, it is just based on the base Wizard.

It is obvious, that if you add in the Master Amulet on one wizard, it could quickly change the order. The real point of the posting, is that Fire is at the top, as it has all the tools needed to win. Take an Advanced player, give that person a Fire Wizard, and they have an excellent change of winning over a like player with a Life Wizard.

The top three are, Fire, then Myth, and then Ice.

I will say that Life got a big boost in this last update, with it one hit spell.
Add in the Myth amulet to a Life, and you have to be concerned.
The two life dispells are a reall killer, unless you are ready for them.

Imo, Death and Balance got the short end of the stick. At least Death gets a great heal out of it's attack, Balance only got an upgraded Hydra, at best.

Fire, Myth, Ice and Storm made out well, and I have not heard of any real complaints in this area. Ice really needed that Single big hit, to help them out.

Just my take on it,
Joe,
Joseph Lionhunter.


Delver
Oct 08, 2010
261
thank you, i agree so much about this. pretty much everything and every school in the game is balanced if you think about it

Delver
Oct 08, 2010
261
joujou11cool wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
PvP is perfectly balanced if we look at it from the perspective of a Fire wizard, sadly this view changes drastically if you switch to a less fortunate school.



Every school is balanced, there's no worst school or better school.


yes thats what i believe. all schools are balanced, its just that some people play better on some schools than others.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Lion359 wrote:
Over on Central, they have a posting (in the PvP section) that shows a listing of why the pvp hierarchy in 1v1, is the way it is. They have listed each Wizard, what abilities make it superior to others, and what each one lacks.


Thank you for reminding me of this post!

To all people who disagree with me, read this: http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235197

-Solstice64

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Solstice64 wrote:
Lion359 wrote:
Over on Central, they have a posting (in the PvP section) that shows a listing of why the pvp hierarchy in 1v1, is the way it is. They have listed each Wizard, what abilities make it superior to others, and what each one lacks.


Thank you for reminding me of this post!

To all people who disagree with me, read this: http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235197

-Solstice64


Sorry Solstice, but I find no merit on that so called list and ranking of schools. It is a post and a person's opinion, not fact!

I can prove you wrong too! It is simple as choosing the Death school.

Death, according to the post and according to your statements, is almost last. Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!

So, why is Death not used very often? Simply because death is so complex and diverse, most people don't know how to play death properly. Death is one of the most difficult schools to Master, but, if you are a great player, which no offense, but most people are not as good as they think they are, Death is truly one of the best schools to PvP with.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
darthjt wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:

Darth, have you ever read the wizard101 central tourney rules? I've read the kind of strategies you do, and those kind are banned over there (yep, no shatter, dispel limit, resist limit, etc.) - The point of this paragraph is that if you joined a tourney you wouldn't prove your point.

MOST people find it easier to pvp on myth and fire, while many people find it harder to pvp on life. This is what makes pvp hierarchy.

-Solstice64


Like I said Solstice, I don't go to Central.

However, just because they have "House Rules" does not mean that I would lose because of them.

You can pick any rules you want, does not mean it will save you on the PvP battlefield when you face me.

PvP is like chess, you have to think 3 to 5 moves ahead, anticipate what your opponent will do. Problem is, as with chess, there are so many different things you can do. I am unpredictable! However, most people that play PvP, can't say the same thing.

Which is also why, it is usually quite easy to defeat a fire or myth wizard on the battlefield, they are usually quite predictable.

Never underestimate your opponent, if you do, you lost already!

When I go into battle, I hope to see someone that gives me a real challenge, I hope to see something new, I never think, ah easy win. However, I am usually disappointed, but if I let my guard down, then I will be defeated.

This is also why choosing other schools, like Life, Death, Ice, and Balance are fun to use.

Oh, and just because I teach a few of my tricks here on the message board, don't think I give everything away, or my best tricks. I am not that generous.


I'm also like that. Unpredictable. People think I judge spam, they got it wrong. They think I heal, I find a more stragetic way to get my health up (which I'm not about to post how). They think I lost, that's when I get into it and get things done fast.
This is what most of the wizards do on each school:
Fire: Fireblade, Elemental Blade, Fire Trap, Efreet.
Myth: Mythblade, Spirit Blade, Myth Trap, Myth Trap, Medusa, Minotaur.
Ice: Tower Shield, Ice Blade, Elemental Blade, Tower Shield, Snow Angel/ Frost Giant.
Death: Death Blade, Curse, Death Trap, Tower Shield/any other shield, Feint, Skeletal Dragon.
Life: Life Blade, Life Trap, Centaur or Life Blade, Life Trap, Spirit Blade, Spirit Trap, Guiding Light, Forest Lord.
Storm: Storm Blade, Storm Trap, Darkwind, Windstorm, Tempest/Leviathan.
Balance: Balanceblade, Hex, Weakness, Bladestorm, Elemental Shield, Spirit Shield, Judgement.

That's how predictable each school is. I go around that and find my own strategy unlike the other Fire and Myth wizards spamming their strongest spell. That's what makes a wizard more powerful and to have the easiest time in pvp.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
darthjt wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
Lion359 wrote:
Over on Central, they have a posting (in the PvP section) that shows a listing of why the pvp hierarchy in 1v1, is the way it is. They have listed each Wizard, what abilities make it superior to others, and what each one lacks.


Thank you for reminding me of this post!

To all people who disagree with me, read this: http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235197

-Solstice64


Sorry Solstice, but I find no merit on that so called list and ranking of schools. It is a post and a person's opinion, not fact!

I can prove you wrong too! It is simple as choosing the Death school.

Death, according to the post and according to your statements, is almost last. Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!

So, why is Death not used very often? Simply because death is so complex and diverse, most people don't know how to play death properly. Death is one of the most difficult schools to Master, but, if you are a great player, which no offense, but most people are not as good as they think they are, Death is truly one of the best schools to PvP with.

----------------------------

Darthjt,

Correct, most people are not as good at they think they are and even the Warlord label does not mean they are that good.
I'm not that good, but I have faced many fire, Myth and Life Warlords that I have crushed. On the other hand, I have been crushed a few times too.

Btw, I think that Myth Wizards are on the rise in this game, as I am seeing more and more of them.

Anyway, so, you have to ignore the user, and look at the Wizard and what he can do, not the Statergy that he can be used with.
The posting on Wizard101 Central does just that, and I think it does it very well.
The key is, for the average user, a Fire or Myth can be used better than a Death or Balance Wizard. I strongly believe that is the key to this discussion. As you state yourself, a Death Wizard is Complex, but is quite strong with the right statergy. How many people can come up with a Complex Strategy and then pull it off, no too many I'll bet.
As someone said, pulling it off is the hard part, and not too many can do it.

Joe,
Joseph LionHunter.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
darthjt wrote:


Sorry Solstice, but I find no merit on that so called list and ranking of schools. It is a post and a person's opinion, not fact!

I can prove you wrong too! It is simple as choosing the Death school.

Death, according to the post and according to your statements, is almost last. Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!

So, why is Death not used very often? Simply because death is so complex and diverse, most people don't know how to play death properly. Death is one of the most difficult schools to Master, but, if you are a great player, which no offense, but most people are not as good as they think they are, Death is truly one of the best schools to PvP with.


I do not agree with everything that post says, what I was trying to do was get the point across as to why I think some schools are more powerful than the others. Basically, fire has more tools to succeed in pvp that life, making it stronger than life. Arguing with that is ridiculous, your argument on death however is correct. I do not believe death is on of the weaker schools in pvp, I believe is right in the middle.

darthjt wrote:
Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!


You just proved my point right there. By saying death is the best is implying that it's better than other schools (how can you be the best when everything is equal?) Though I do not agree with you that death is one of the best, it does show that school hierarchy is very well. Now, the argument us pvpers should be arguing over is, "should it be fixed or left alone" and, "If so, how to fix it."

-Solstice64

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Solstice64 wrote:
darthjt wrote:


Sorry Solstice, but I find no merit on that so called list and ranking of schools. It is a post and a person's opinion, not fact!

I can prove you wrong too! It is simple as choosing the Death school.

Death, according to the post and according to your statements, is almost last. Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!

So, why is Death not used very often? Simply because death is so complex and diverse, most people don't know how to play death properly. Death is one of the most difficult schools to Master, but, if you are a great player, which no offense, but most people are not as good as they think they are, Death is truly one of the best schools to PvP with.


I do not agree with everything that post says, what I was trying to do was get the point across as to why I think some schools are more powerful than the others. Basically, fire has more tools to succeed in pvp that life, making it stronger than life. Arguing with that is ridiculous, your argument on death however is correct. I do not believe death is on of the weaker schools in pvp, I believe is right in the middle.

darthjt wrote:
Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!


You just proved my point right there. By saying death is the best is implying that it's better than other schools (how can you be the best when everything is equal?) Though I do not agree with you that death is one of the best, it does show that school hierarchy is very well. Now, the argument us pvpers should be arguing over is, "should it be fixed or left alone" and, "If so, how to fix it."

-Solstice64


Solstice, I am glad you dont agree with everything that post says. Yes, I do agree that some schools have an easier time and are better equipped for PvP, I would be a fool to disagree with that statement!

However, don't take me the wrong way when I said, Death is one of the strongest in PvP, I just meant, it is not the weakest by any means, nor has the least helpful spells in PvP.

Life actually has the least helpful spells in a pvp match. However, there are life converts to death spells, death wands, and 1 pip death dot spells. Life can heal faster than anyone can damage them! Life is not the easiest school to defeat either, it just has a hard time defeating your opponent! If your opponent has shields.

This is the problem with tournaments! You know what school you will be facing. You know what shields and spells to stack and prepare your deck with, unlike actual ranked PvP, where you dont have a clue what school you might be facing. This is why you can't really compare the 2 and why I said, if I know what school I am playing in advance, there is almost no way I will be defeated, even if you set "House Rules"!

Just food for thought.

Joe is also correct, when saying some people might have the warlord status, but it does not mean, they are that good. Some people are good with fire and myth, because they are as you said, given more and have an easier time in PvP. But to try and cut other schools, such as balance, life, death, and even storm out of contention, just leads me to believe that those that truly think that, just have not come up with a good strategy for those schools.

Storm having storm elf is a must! A good Storm hound is a perfect 1v1 pvp pet. Storm, if played correctly can devastate an opponent very quickly. However, as always, the player must have a good setup and well thought out plan of attack.

Fire and myth do have a much easier time and do not require as much thought, which is why you see more of them than any other schools, most people fail when it comes to devising good strategies at pvp.

Death is complex and complicated, most people don't want to put that much thought into a school or pvp match.

Ice is awesome, however, lacks the power. But if you get the right pet, can be extremely powerful, if you lose 5 more resistance, by getting pain giver and ice giver on your pet. Some just use ice for it's massive resistance to live longer, but you have to know how to truly setup ice attacks to take out your enemy.

Balance is Amazing, even without the use of shatter! There are still many ways to defeat opponents. Just because tournaments do not allow shatter, does not mean they have removed pierce or pierce train from pets. 4 feints and a few blades, nothing can withstand a Judgment spell, which is one example, although it is doubtful you will ever even need to take it that far.

So, just because some schools have an easier time, does not make them the better schools, or mean there is a huge imbalance to PvP.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
darthjt wrote:

Solstice, I am glad you dont agree with everything that post says. Yes, I do agree that some schools have an easier time and are better equipped for PvP, I would be a fool to disagree with that statement!

However, don't take me the wrong way when I said, Death is one of the strongest in PvP, I just meant, it is not the weakest by any means, nor has the least helpful spells in PvP.

Life actually has the least helpful spells in a pvp match. However, there are life converts to death spells, death wands, and 1 pip death dot spells. Life can heal faster than anyone can damage them! Life is not the easiest school to defeat either, it just has a hard time defeating your opponent! If your opponent has shields.

This is the problem with tournaments! You know what school you will be facing. You know what shields and spells to stack and prepare your deck with, unlike actual ranked PvP, where you dont have a clue what school you might be facing. This is why you can't really compare the 2 and why I said, if I know what school I am playing in advance, there is almost no way I will be defeated, even if you set "House Rules"!

Just food for thought.

Joe is also correct, when saying some people might have the warlord status, but it does not mean, they are that good. Some people are good with fire and myth, because they are as you said, given more and have an easier time in PvP. But to try and cut other schools, such as balance, life, death, and even storm out of contention, just leads me to believe that those that truly think that, just have not come up with a good strategy for those schools.

Storm having storm elf is a must! A good Storm hound is a perfect 1v1 pvp pet. Storm, if played correctly can devastate an opponent very quickly. However, as always, the player must have a good setup and well thought out plan of attack.

Fire and myth do have a much easier time and do not require as much thought, which is why you see more of them than any other schools, most people fail when it comes to devising good strategies at pvp.

Death is complex and complicated, most people don't want to put that much thought into a school or pvp match.

Ice is awesome, however, lacks the power. But if you get the right pet, can be extremely powerful, if you lose 5 more resistance, by getting pain giver and ice giver on your pet. Some just use ice for it's massive resistance to live longer, but you have to know how to truly setup ice attacks to take out your enemy.

Balance is Amazing, even without the use of shatter! There are still many ways to defeat opponents. Just because tournaments do not allow shatter, does not mean they have removed pierce or pierce train from pets. 4 feints and a few blades, nothing can withstand a Judgment spell, which is one example, although it is doubtful you will ever even need to take it that far.

So, just because some schools have an easier time, does not make them the better schools, or mean there is a huge imbalance to PvP.


At least we are on the same page. The problem is that most of the people in pvp aren't willing to take the time and effort to think outside the box. This means to the majority of people (people who play the normal school strategies) there is a huge imbalance in pvp. So should we try to fix the game for the majority of the people, not leave it the same for the few of us who can overcome school hierarchy? Just something to think about.

-Solstice64

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Quote by Darthjt:
"So, just because some schools have an easier time, does not make them the better schools, or mean there is a huge imbalance to PvP. "

Darthjt,

I think that this is really correct, there is not huge imbalance to the Wizards in PvP, but I think that there is clearly an imbalance.

Fire and Myth do have all the tools to win, when put in the right hands.
Just look at Power Link, I have seen it do 1600 a round, just awesome.

Life gained a huge advantage in pvp with it's new spell.
It really only has to worry about Killing Storm and fire before it's killed.
Once it gets it first life Dispell up, and then hits you will it new 58 spell, anyone can get in trouble real fast. Especially if they have the life wand, to clear the way.

Ice gained, with it's new spells, so I see Ice and all of these schools listed above as having an edge now. It was the one thing that Ice really needed, more than any other spell, a power hit.

Death on the other hand, gained something it needed, a giant hit, with heal. Almost like a counter-balance to Skeleton Dragon, a real plus when played correctly. But, as you said, Death is hard to Master, and you really have to think the strategy out, before you can play this guy in pvp.
Even with this new spell, it still does not have all that it needs for 1v1.
If Scarecrow was lower and a 4 pip spell, then maybe it would be a different story for 1v1. As it is, death is not really designed for 1v1, imo.
For the average user, I may well put Death at the bottom of the list.
(Btw, I have a level 61 death, that I really like, but not for 1v1).

Balance is the odd ball wizard, it has a real advantage and a disadvantage all rolled into one. I love to play this wizard, win or lose, it's always a hairline challenge. But, he clearly does not have all the tools needed to play 1v1. 2v2, he can really be a plus, but in 1v1, he will always be lacking, as he has to just pound away at breaking shields and wasting pips. His only real hitting power is in Judgement, and then if it's guess and shield, he walks directly into a shield. Yes, he can Fient, and Fient, and shatter, but I will never use this idea, it just steals the fun away from the "attack from any direction" Wizard. So, again, Balance is at a huge disadvantage in this game, when Fient is taken away. Even with Feint, it can be countered, by a smart player.

Bottom line, I do feel that the wizards are unbalanced for the average user, and that is what many are saying. I can't take any wizard into 1v1 and have a fair match, if both player are like minded. If "like minded" players take a Fire and a Balance wizard into PvP, you better bet on the Fire.

That is my view on it, who has all the right tools?

Joe,


As it is, my Myth and Balance have never lost to a death, being first or second.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
Pvp is balanced, it's the people who play that Present Imbalances. Pre celestia I could maybe see an argument but after the school amulet update, the addition of a fully customizable equipment slot, and spells like shatter this is not an issue anymore. Just saying... DarthJT has given strategies for "so called" weak schools and that specific post should be looked at before a redesign is called for lol

I

Delver
Jul 09, 2009
275
joujou11cool wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:

Darth, have you ever read the wizard101 central tourney rules? I've read the kind of strategies you do, and those kind are banned over there (yep, no shatter, dispel limit, resist limit, etc.) - The point of this paragraph is that if you joined a tourney you wouldn't prove your point.

MOST people find it easier to pvp on myth and fire, while many people find it harder to pvp on life. This is what makes pvp hierarchy.

-Solstice64


Like I said Solstice, I don't go to Central.

However, just because they have "House Rules" does not mean that I would lose because of them.

You can pick any rules you want, does not mean it will save you on the PvP battlefield when you face me.

PvP is like chess, you have to think 3 to 5 moves ahead, anticipate what your opponent will do. Problem is, as with chess, there are so many different things you can do. I am unpredictable! However, most people that play PvP, can't say the same thing.

Which is also why, it is usually quite easy to defeat a fire or myth wizard on the battlefield, they are usually quite predictable.

Never underestimate your opponent, if you do, you lost already!

When I go into battle, I hope to see someone that gives me a real challenge, I hope to see something new, I never think, ah easy win. However, I am usually disappointed, but if I let my guard down, then I will be defeated.

This is also why choosing other schools, like Life, Death, Ice, and Balance are fun to use.

Oh, and just because I teach a few of my tricks here on the message board, don't think I give everything away, or my best tricks. I am not that generous.


I'm also like that. Unpredictable. People think I judge spam, they got it wrong. They think I heal, I find a more stragetic way to get my health up (which I'm not about to post how). They think I lost, that's when I get into it and get things done fast.
This is what most of the wizards do on each school:
Fire: Fireblade, Elemental Blade, Fire Trap, Efreet.
Myth: Mythblade, Spirit Blade, Myth Trap, Myth Trap, Medusa, Minotaur.
Ice: Tower Shield, Ice Blade, Elemental Blade, Tower Shield, Snow Angel/ Frost Giant.
Death: Death Blade, Curse, Death Trap, Tower Shield/any other shield, Feint, Skeletal Dragon.
Life: Life Blade, Life Trap, Centaur or Life Blade, Life Trap, Spirit Blade, Spirit Trap, Guiding Light, Forest Lord.
Storm: Storm Blade, Storm Trap, Darkwind, Windstorm, Tempest/Leviathan.
Balance: Balanceblade, Hex, Weakness, Bladestorm, Elemental Shield, Spirit Shield, Judgement.

That's how predictable each school is. I go around that and find my own strategy unlike the other Fire and Myth wizards spamming their strongest spell. That's what makes a wizard more powerful and to have the easiest time in pvp.


At least we know you have common sense. In 1v1 when facing a fire lets think. Never discard your wand spells. When you see they have a fire blade, an elemental blade, and eight pips efreet is most likely coming your way. Me I'm a pyromancer, but I don't spam efreet. I use my killer power link when used correctly does major damage each turn even with a shield and resist. In PvP and PvE power link never lets me down making it my favorite spell. Myth not as predictable and a little more trickier. When They boost themselves its orthrus or medusa coming up. The thing is fire and myth wizards are able to make their weaknesses their advantages cause you go for the weakend spot and fall for their traps. Gnomes! changes the feild easily, as well as woolly mammoth, sirens, dr. von's monster, and chimera. You have to find the strong points in your weakest spells. Thats what makes them harder to master. I found the strong points in power link and now its a beast! You can do that with your spells.

Aaron Drakewalker Transcended Pyromancer

Mastermind
Mar 28, 2009
328
I personally will never complain about spells, treasures, boost, block, pierce, critical, etc. Although as a level 50 storm I am fighting legends, unfair? Yes, yes it is. I am a pvp veteran, but come on, legends, even a transcedent at times. My friend became a warlord (level 40) and was fighting a BUNCH of legends. Warlords are strong, I will admit, but usually not strong enough to fight legends every battle when level 40. Now he is a captain. I think we should fight our levels(ish) with same rank, making it fair.

scotttttttttt
FLAPJACKS!!!

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
Solstice64 wrote:
darthjt wrote:

Solstice, I am glad you dont agree with everything that post says. Yes, I do agree that some schools have an easier time and are better equipped for PvP, I would be a fool to disagree with that statement!

However, don't take me the wrong way when I said, Death is one of the strongest in PvP, I just meant, it is not the weakest by any means, nor has the least helpful spells in PvP.

Life actually has the least helpful spells in a pvp match. However, there are life converts to death spells, death wands, and 1 pip death dot spells. Life can heal faster than anyone can damage them! Life is not the easiest school to defeat either, it just has a hard time defeating your opponent! If your opponent has shields.

This is the problem with tournaments! You know what school you will be facing. You know what shields and spells to stack and prepare your deck with, unlike actual ranked PvP, where you dont have a clue what school you might be facing. This is why you can't really compare the 2 and why I said, if I know what school I am playing in advance, there is almost no way I will be defeated, even if you set "House Rules"!

Just food for thought.

Joe is also correct, when saying some people might have the warlord status, but it does not mean, they are that good. Some people are good with fire and myth, because they are as you said, given more and have an easier time in PvP. But to try and cut other schools, such as balance, life, death, and even storm out of contention, just leads me to believe that those that truly think that, just have not come up with a good strategy for those schools.

Storm having storm elf is a must! A good Storm hound is a perfect 1v1 pvp pet. Storm, if played correctly can devastate an opponent very quickly. However, as always, the player must have a good setup and well thought out plan of attack.

Fire and myth do have a much easier time and do not require as much thought, which is why you see more of them than any other schools, most people fail when it comes to devising good strategies at pvp.

Death is complex and complicated, most people don't want to put that much thought into a school or pvp match.

Ice is awesome, however, lacks the power. But if you get the right pet, can be extremely powerful, if you lose 5 more resistance, by getting pain giver and ice giver on your pet. Some just use ice for it's massive resistance to live longer, but you have to know how to truly setup ice attacks to take out your enemy.

Balance is Amazing, even without the use of shatter! There are still many ways to defeat opponents. Just because tournaments do not allow shatter, does not mean they have removed pierce or pierce train from pets. 4 feints and a few blades, nothing can withstand a Judgment spell, which is one example, although it is doubtful you will ever even need to take it that far.

So, just because some schools have an easier time, does not make them the better schools, or mean there is a huge imbalance to PvP.


At least we are on the same page. The problem is that most of the people in pvp aren't willing to take the time and effort to think outside the box. This means to the majority of people (people who play the normal school strategies) there is a huge imbalance in pvp. So should we try to fix the game for the majority of the people, not leave it the same for the few of us who can overcome school hierarchy? Just something to think about.

-Solstice64


I disagree with the huge imbalance to pvp. The main reason of this post was about changing pvp. If pvp were to be changed, then it would end up like wild bolt, hated. Pvp isn't the thing that needs fixing (at least not anymore because of the new way they made ranks ) But, there are some problems will the gear. The gear disbalances the game a little bit, if you were to really look at it. Why does Death do more damage then Balance and also have more damage boost and critical? Also, most Death wizards have more block rating then Balance! Ice needs to be unique again. KI added resist to all schools because of the critical. Spells do way too much damage without it. And our health is a little too low. So they should take away all school's universal resist except Ice and make the spells weaker, or the damage boost. You don't really have an option but to take the waterworks gear as your main gear or you can't survive without it. At least it's hard to. They should let out more varieties of gear so the schools can be balanced once again. At level 60, basically every wizard is the same. Waterworks hat, waterworks robe, and waterworks boots, lexicon blade, aureate band. Basically everyone equips that gear now from levels 60-70. They need to make the waterworks gear different, weaken the spells/damage boost/ critical of each school/boost up our health, and lower down our resist! It's frustrating seeing that every legendary and transcended wizard having the same gear. I still find it ok, but I want everyone to be different and have different stats rather then being the same. As everyone says, if everyone was the same, life would be boring. That's a little of what wizard101 is getting into now, I know my opponent's stats,rounded-up health, resist, rounded-up damage boost, and critical rating.

Champion
Jul 30, 2010
441
joujou11cool wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:


Those are the schools that have won most of the time, they're not the best. It depends on the player.


I'll break it down for you, but I doubt it will help. Here is a table of vital things for pvp and the schools that don't have those things.

Damage Bubble: Balance, Life, Death
A way to clear or go around shields: Balance, Life, Storm
Healing: (all schools have this since you can train it with training points.)
Shields: All
Damage Boosting: All (balance has tiny blades though.)

These are the very basics. This proves that some schools have an advantage over others, but when you put them in action you end up with a list like this (schools at the top are more powerful, this is for 1v1 and pre-zafaria (I don't know about pvp in the new era.))

Fire/Myth
Ice
Death
Balance
Storm
Life

Players can over come this with skill, but they are still at a disadvantage. This can discourage many less skilled pvpers.

-Solstice64


Take down Ice to be behind Balance and it's all good. You somewhat have a point, but it'd that some people don't even JOIN the tournaments and usually I see Fire and Myth wizards.
Balance has a way to get around shields: Hydra, Spectral Blast, Chimera. I'm pretty sure that now that Zafaria is out that Balance and Myth might be at the top for 1v1.

i am affaid myth is at the top. myth has some of the best spells i have faced myth many times and lost on my balance. and i have had help from many balance warlords and even they loose to myth now.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
hanable33 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:


Those are the schools that have won most of the time, they're not the best. It depends on the player.


I'll break it down for you, but I doubt it will help. Here is a table of vital things for pvp and the schools that don't have those things.

Damage Bubble: Balance, Life, Death
A way to clear or go around shields: Balance, Life, Storm
Healing: (all schools have this since you can train it with training points.)
Shields: All
Damage Boosting: All (balance has tiny blades though.)

These are the very basics. This proves that some schools have an advantage over others, but when you put them in action you end up with a list like this (schools at the top are more powerful, this is for 1v1 and pre-zafaria (I don't know about pvp in the new era.))

Fire/Myth
Ice
Death
Balance
Storm
Life

Players can over come this with skill, but they are still at a disadvantage. This can discourage many less skilled pvpers.

-Solstice64


Take down Ice to be behind Balance and it's all good. You somewhat have a point, but it'd that some people don't even JOIN the tournaments and usually I see Fire and Myth wizards.
Balance has a way to get around shields: Hydra, Spectral Blast, Chimera. I'm pretty sure that now that Zafaria is out that Balance and Myth might be at the top for 1v1.

i am affaid myth is at the top. myth has some of the best spells i have faced myth many times and lost on my balance. and i have had help from many balance warlords and even they loose to myth now.


That's because you need to gain strategy and decide what to use against Myth. I beat Myth wizards easily on my Balance wizard, so I see absolutely no problems with it.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
Solstice64 wrote:
Lion359 wrote:
Over on Central, they have a posting (in the PvP section) that shows a listing of why the pvp hierarchy in 1v1, is the way it is. They have listed each Wizard, what abilities make it superior to others, and what each one lacks.


Thank you for reminding me of this post!

To all people who disagree with me, read this: http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235197

-Solstice64


That's just someone's opinion. The person missed Fire's cons: Can be easily Triaged, lack of health, and also lower amount of shields.

Myth also has its cons.

All schools have their own pros and cons, and many wizards are able to go around those. Many wizards get around their cons by using spells. As I've already said, there's a counter to everything. And as I've also said," If PvP was unbalanced, then KI would notice, they're the pros we're not." Also, if PvP were REALLY unbalanced then how come many people have defeated Fire and Myth?

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
acrios90 wrote:
You Claim that pvp isn't broken, I agree the battling system isn't broken. but there are other aspects of pvp that in fact ARE broken here are a few Examples,

1.) In 2v2 If you have a level 1 wizard paired with a level 60 you end up against a pair of 30's and the level 60 takes them out in a matter of rounds. This isn't fair to the other team because they got seriously outranked in an unfair match.

2.) Alot of people have heard of "Downranking" this has some broken qualities to it. for one people who downrank tend to wear the top PVP gear even when they are privates so they have a big(ish) advantage over their private opponents.

3.) A few spells dont work like they are sapposed to in pvp. for example deaths spell (I cant remember the name) It is sapposed to turn your opponent on your side for 1 turn but more times then not, It doesn't (also this is one spell that doesnt have a counterspell for.)


Actually, Beguile DOES work, it's just that there are some minor issues to fix with it. Downranking got fixed quite a while ago now and same as the level range in ranked pvp. KI totally fixed it in the update before Zafaria

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
flarzedrago9 wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:


Take down Ice to be behind Balance and it's all good. You somewhat have a point, but it'd that some people don't even JOIN the tournaments and usually I see Fire and Myth wizards.
Balance has a way to get around shields: Hydra, Spectral Blast, Chimera. I'm pretty sure that now that Zafaria is out that Balance and Myth might be at the top for 1v1.


We'll stray to far from this topic if we start talking about the order on our little school list. The point I am trying to make is made, the schools are unbalanced, so thats why pvp needs to be balanced.


Ever hear too many cooks spoil the stew? If all the schools were alike then whats the point of different schools? Every school has different strengths and weaknesses its our jobs as wizards to learn how to cover our weaknesses.

Aaron Drakewalker Transcended Pyromancer


Exactly, and wizards need to gain skill and strategy to cover up their cons. Well said.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
iceking355 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:
Here's the perfect way to balance pvp. Even though most of you won't agree with me. I find the best way to balancing pvp is to keep it the way it is. If you actually thought about it, and saw yourself fighting a different school in your own way that you described it should be, would the battle be too easy? Complaining about how much weaker your school is, and if they chose what you wanted changed, would that make the main storyline too easy for you? Would that make fighting other schools too easy?

We're not experts, KI is. Anyone can win and lose. If you're having troubles with your wizard, why isn't everyone in the entire game complaning? I'm pretty sure that KI would have noticed if 1 school was dominating over the other. With the Sirens spell, people say it's overpowered. Complaining already, before they even changed it and launched it into the live realm. Complaining about the gear, even though they hadn't made changes before it goes into the live realm. Complain when it actually comes out, and if it's actually everyone's problem, not just yours.

Complaining about a school too weak, spell too strong. Other people have complained about their school being weak, while you're complaining about their attacks being too strong.

There are a whole lot of complaints about Judgement. Making it a level 38 spell? That would be way too late, and it'd already be too weak for us. Complaining about Tempest, it's not even considered strong anymore, considering that you'll get Storm Lord. It's a temporary spell. Like this: Oh this spell's awesome! As you as you get it. Then later on: Totally outta my deck.

Storm needs damage, otherwise their health would have to be boosted. Balance needs Judgement at level 28. It's not even that good compared to Spectral Blast. You get that at level 26, and yet it attacks faster, and actually lets you hit hard 2 times in a row.

Now getting to the details. People keep on trying to change pvp up, making it easier for them to defeat enemies, making it impossible for enemies to defeat them. Changing pvp is going to stop everyone from pvp for good. Even ranked pvp! No one would go for any of the pvp gear. I'll even be honest, I made a thread about changing pvp just a slight bit. If the player that goes first defeats the second guy, why not make it so that the second person could still use that one last spell they chose, and if the 2nd player defeated the first the same round the 1st defeated the second wizard, it would be counted as a draw. When I actually thought about it, I thought that that was the lamest way to change pvp up (no offense if you posted a similiar thread to that). But the second wizard already had their chance to anticipate, and defend themselves. If you're complaining about a spell being too strong, then shield! I hear people say that shields are for noobs that can't survive an attack. I'm super close to maxing my level out, and I still use shields for defense. NO spell and absolutely NO spell is too strong. There's a point of shields in the game, not just to hang around and take space in your deck, but to help you survive and weaken the opponent's spell. Sure there's shatter, but isn't there reshuffle? There's Triage, but isn't there poison? Critical, critical block. Super high hit, super high heal. There's a counter-spell for everything. If you're having trouble hitting with Skeletal Dragon, then use a different spell. Skeletal dragon doesn't really on the poisoning effect, the first hit can be pretty nasty. People also say that fizzling shouldn't be in pvp. I hardly fizzle, no one really fizzles anymore, and if there wasn't any fizzling in pvp, then what could be your best chance to survive? Super charge boosts too much people say. That's kind of why it takes away ALL of your pips. They'll have to re-stock on pips until they can attack hard. Insane bolt could be used, no problem, it has a backfire to it. In ranked pvp, my opponent boosted up pretty well, and when I see those clouds from insane bolt come in, I thought I was dead meat. Then I saw the critical, another oh no. Then, it backfired. What luck! Insane bolt came in because people complained about Wild Bolt. Well if you don't like Insane Bolt, then it was your fault for complaining about Wild Bolt. KI had to find a solution, because people were threatening that they'd quit the game. If you hadn't complained and said you would quit like a little kid, then KI would've probably given you a better spell. It's not their fault at all, it's the people that complained about Wild Bolt. So if you're complaining about Insane Bolt now, hey, it was your own fault for the complaining of Wild Bolt. So if pvp were to be changed, it would be in the same standard as Insane Bolt. A lot more people complaining, so the next time you think of changing pvp, think about Insane Bolt. Thanks for listening! I always have an open mind for your thoughts, and I'd love to hear them.

Now I can complain that sirens is overkill because it is already in the live realm


When I got hit by Sirens, it did low damage. This spell is now fixed and the problem is solved. It isn't an overkill spell anymore because they dropped it by 100+ damage.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
flarzedrago9 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
joujou11cool wrote:


Those are the schools that have won most of the time, they're not the best. It depends on the player.


I'll break it down for you, but I doubt it will help. Here is a table of vital things for pvp and the schools that don't have those things.

Damage Bubble: Balance, Life, Death
A way to clear or go around shields: Balance, Life, Storm
Healing: (all schools have this since you can train it with training points.)
Shields: All
Damage Boosting: All (balance has tiny blades though.)

These are the very basics. This proves that some schools have an advantage over others, but when you put them in action you end up with a list like this (schools at the top are more powerful, this is for 1v1 and pre-zafaria (I don't know about pvp in the new era.))

Fire/Myth
Ice
Death
Balance
Storm
Life

Players can over come this with skill, but they are still at a disadvantage. This can discourage many less skilled pvpers.

-Solstice64


Take down Ice to be behind Balance and it's all good. You somewhat have a point, but it'd that some people don't even JOIN the tournaments and usually I see Fire and Myth wizards.
Balance has a way to get around shields: Hydra, Spectral Blast, Chimera. I'm pretty sure that now that Zafaria is out that Balance and Myth might be at the top for 1v1.


I think balance got a somewhat usless spell for pvp. Chimera is going to be spirit shielded by others and the resist won't help either. Balance used to be up there but since the waterworks release its gotten down ranked by a lot.

Aaron Drakewalker Transcended Pyromancer


Chimera is really powerful for me now that I have it. It does 1020 damage, same as Levy

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
darthjt wrote:
Solstice64 wrote:
darthjt wrote:


Sorry Solstice, but I find no merit on that so called list and ranking of schools. It is a post and a person's opinion, not fact!

I can prove you wrong too! It is simple as choosing the Death school.

Death, according to the post and according to your statements, is almost last. Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!

So, why is Death not used very often? Simply because death is so complex and diverse, most people don't know how to play death properly. Death is one of the most difficult schools to Master, but, if you are a great player, which no offense, but most people are not as good as they think they are, Death is truly one of the best schools to PvP with.


I do not agree with everything that post says, what I was trying to do was get the point across as to why I think some schools are more powerful than the others. Basically, fire has more tools to succeed in pvp that life, making it stronger than life. Arguing with that is ridiculous, your argument on death however is correct. I do not believe death is on of the weaker schools in pvp, I believe is right in the middle.

darthjt wrote:
Death can defeat anyone and is in fact one of the most powerful schools in 1v1 PvP!


You just proved my point right there. By saying death is the best is implying that it's better than other schools (how can you be the best when everything is equal?) Though I do not agree with you that death is one of the best, it does show that school hierarchy is very well. Now, the argument us pvpers should be arguing over is, "should it be fixed or left alone" and, "If so, how to fix it."

-Solstice64


Solstice, I am glad you dont agree with everything that post says. Yes, I do agree that some schools have an easier time and are better equipped for PvP, I would be a fool to disagree with that statement!

However, don't take me the wrong way when I said, Death is one of the strongest in PvP, I just meant, it is not the weakest by any means, nor has the least helpful spells in PvP.

Life actually has the least helpful spells in a pvp match. However, there are life converts to death spells, death wands, and 1 pip death dot spells. Life can heal faster than anyone can damage them! Life is not the easiest school to defeat either, it just has a hard time defeating your opponent! If your opponent has shields.

This is the problem with tournaments! You know what school you will be facing. You know what shields and spells to stack and prepare your deck with, unlike actual ranked PvP, where you dont have a clue what school you might be facing. This is why you can't really compare the 2 and why I said, if I know what school I am playing in advance, there is almost no way I will be defeated, even if you set "House Rules"!

Just food for thought.

Joe is also correct, when saying some people might have the warlord status, but it does not mean, they are that good. Some people are good with fire and myth, because they are as you said, given more and have an easier time in PvP. But to try and cut other schools, such as balance, life, death, and even storm out of contention, just leads me to believe that those that truly think that, just have not come up with a good strategy for those schools.

Storm having storm elf is a must! A good Storm hound is a perfect 1v1 pvp pet. Storm, if played correctly can devastate an opponent very quickly. However, as always, the player must have a good setup and well thought out plan of attack.

Fire and myth do have a much easier time and do not require as much thought, which is why you see more of them than any other schools, most people fail when it comes to devising good strategies at pvp.

Death is complex and complicated, most people don't want to put that much thought into a school or pvp match.

Ice is awesome, however, lacks the power. But if you get the right pet, can be extremely powerful, if you lose 5 more resistance, by getting pain giver and ice giver on your pet. Some just use ice for it's massive resistance to live longer, but you have to know how to truly setup ice attacks to take out your enemy.

Balance is Amazing, even without the use of shatter! There are still many ways to defeat opponents. Just because tournaments do not allow shatter, does not mean they have removed pierce or pierce train from pets. 4 feints and a few blades, nothing can withstand a Judgment spell, which is one example, although it is doubtful you will ever even need to take it that far.

So, just because some schools have an easier time, does not make them the better schools, or mean there is a huge imbalance to PvP.


Wrong, Life hits REALLY hard. With many Life wizard's damage boosts and skill, they can be really tough to defeat.

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