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Bad Juju, Still Sort Of A Problem

AuthorMessage
A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
I am not making any complaints about Bad Juju, but even with the Malistaire gear's large armor pierce, Death Jades who use Bad Juju are still extremely difficult to beat. There are ways to beat these kinds of duelists, but that is only available to Balance wizards, as you need the ability to quickly Reshuffle to keep up with the number of Bad Jujus coming at you. I still think that the following needs to be done to spells like Bad Juju and Dark Pact:
1) Make these spells non-cloakable. There is virtually no point in cloaking these spells because you can tell what kind of spell it is. Therefore, the only reason one would Cloak Bad Juju is to multiply the card, which is for using a cheap strategy.

2) Make these spells deal a fixed amount of damage each time. For example, a blade, trap, Weakness, damage, armor pierce, or resistance will not affect how much damage is dealt. This would help keep Bad Juju in control and make it as good as any other risk-taking spell, rather than letting it be ridiculously overpowered when combined with high resist.

Does anybody else agree with the changes required for Bad Juju? Not both need to necessarily be done, but it would be nice if the spell was changed to avoid overpowered strategies, just like how KingsIsle decided to nerf Wild Bolt due to the new updates. Well, my point is, if KingsIsle consistently updates spells to keep up with the current game meta, then Bad Juju should be updated as well so it isn't as overpowered.

Survivor
May 18, 2012
40
My only wizard is an archmage death. I keep three bad juju's in my deck and only use them if I'm expecting a big hit and have the added advantage of going first. For non-jade players the damage it inflicts just isn't worth it for the stalling effect it may have. There is always cleanse or a wand hit, but those obviously can be difficult to draw before they start building on you.

I think death takes enough hits in this game (shift, for instance, severely slims the options I have in a battle more than most schools) so part of me finds humor in the fact that a few death wizards have found a route which works for them, however, watching those 4-8 hour matches is truly sad on some level. It doesn't surprise me the length some people will go just to win a pvp game, but who has time for it?

I think the spell is fine the way it is, the real issue is jade gear and the bizarre concept of immunity in a pvp duel. Limiting the amount of jade gear one can equip to 1 item from the set and possibly introducing some sort of 'cool down' feature for certain spells (like juju, loremaster, wild-bolt) would be a nice improvement. Death isn't the only school that gets away with spamming y'know.

Mastermind
Dec 05, 2012
393
I know it's a problem, but it wouldn't be fair if they didn't know that spell.

Geographer
Oct 09, 2011
945
PvP King on Dec 23, 2014 wrote:
I am not making any complaints about Bad Juju, but even with the Malistaire gear's large armor pierce, Death Jades who use Bad Juju are still extremely difficult to beat. There are ways to beat these kinds of duelists, but that is only available to Balance wizards, as you need the ability to quickly Reshuffle to keep up with the number of Bad Jujus coming at you. I still think that the following needs to be done to spells like Bad Juju and Dark Pact:
1) Make these spells non-cloakable. There is virtually no point in cloaking these spells because you can tell what kind of spell it is. Therefore, the only reason one would Cloak Bad Juju is to multiply the card, which is for using a cheap strategy.

2) Make these spells deal a fixed amount of damage each time. For example, a blade, trap, Weakness, damage, armor pierce, or resistance will not affect how much damage is dealt. This would help keep Bad Juju in control and make it as good as any other risk-taking spell, rather than letting it be ridiculously overpowered when combined with high resist.

Does anybody else agree with the changes required for Bad Juju? Not both need to necessarily be done, but it would be nice if the spell was changed to avoid overpowered strategies, just like how KingsIsle decided to nerf Wild Bolt due to the new updates. Well, my point is, if KingsIsle consistently updates spells to keep up with the current game meta, then Bad Juju should be updated as well so it isn't as overpowered.
The second change you requested could be good for PvP, but what about PvE? You wouldn't be able to resist the damage you deal to yourself. It's not very much, but it can quickly stack up, especially at earlier levels. No spell should ever be changed in a way that affects PvP positively while affecting PvE negatively, because after all, PvE is the main aspect of the game.

Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
hi there. i would say that this is a good idea, but it kind of takes away the meaning of the death school. i might be saying this just because i am death, but i will try to be honest in my reply.

death is about sacrificing, so, making the damage on these two spells be the same no matter what would kind of take that away. i understand that it is annoying when you put a weakness or something on a death wizard and they just use it to lower the damage to themselves, but this is a tactic that helps death wizards fight better.

also, i have a small question on the cloaking. when i have seen these two spells cloaked, i can always tell what they are because of the self-attacks they deal. each self-attack is different so you can tell which spell is being used when you look at the color of the self-attack. how would cloaking these two spells help in PvP?

i do see your point, but doing this would probably take away some of the death's tactics and meaning of "Facing death without fear" as their book says.

it is a good idea, but i do not think that it would be to fair to death wizards.

happy holidays!

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
lewski on Dec 24, 2014 wrote:
The second change you requested could be good for PvP, but what about PvE? You wouldn't be able to resist the damage you deal to yourself. It's not very much, but it can quickly stack up, especially at earlier levels. No spell should ever be changed in a way that affects PvP positively while affecting PvE negatively, because after all, PvE is the main aspect of the game.
I did the math, and the average Death wizard (non-Jade) using Bad Juju today will take 421 damage (98 damage, 17 armor pierce, 46 resist). If the second idea is taken into account, then Bad Juju will always take 300 damage, so this benefits Death wizards in PvE as much as it helps all schools against Death Jades.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
Shadow 343 on Dec 24, 2014 wrote:
hi there. i would say that this is a good idea, but it kind of takes away the meaning of the death school. i might be saying this just because i am death, but i will try to be honest in my reply.

death is about sacrificing, so, making the damage on these two spells be the same no matter what would kind of take that away. i understand that it is annoying when you put a weakness or something on a death wizard and they just use it to lower the damage to themselves, but this is a tactic that helps death wizards fight better.

also, i have a small question on the cloaking. when i have seen these two spells cloaked, i can always tell what they are because of the self-attacks they deal. each self-attack is different so you can tell which spell is being used when you look at the color of the self-attack. how would cloaking these two spells help in PvP?

i do see your point, but doing this would probably take away some of the death's tactics and meaning of "Facing death without fear" as their book says.

it is a good idea, but i do not think that it would be to fair to death wizards.

happy holidays!
To answer your question about Cloak, if you Cloak a spell and Reshuffle, you will receive the following in your deck: The cloaked version of the spell, the spell you cloaked, and the Cloak spell. This is why Death Jades have a super edge in PvP, because a cloaked Bad Juju multiplies from 7 to 14 to 28 and so on. If Bad Juju couldn't be cloaked, I believe Death Jades would be on the same playing field as every other Jade in the game.

Survivor
May 18, 2012
40
There needs to be a counter to having 20 bad juju's stacked on you. Sort of like a reverse earthquake.

Survivor
Nov 09, 2012
7
Delver
Dec 04, 2013
215
PvP King on Dec 24, 2014 wrote:
To answer your question about Cloak, if you Cloak a spell and Reshuffle, you will receive the following in your deck: The cloaked version of the spell, the spell you cloaked, and the Cloak spell. This is why Death Jades have a super edge in PvP, because a cloaked Bad Juju multiplies from 7 to 14 to 28 and so on. If Bad Juju couldn't be cloaked, I believe Death Jades would be on the same playing field as every other Jade in the game.
Ah. i have never cloaked anything so i didnt know that. i now see that. i agree that that is not right. if you cloak a spell and reshuffle it, you shouldnt get the cloaked spell as well as it in normal form along with the actual cloak. that is not fair, i agree with you there.

K.B.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
Shadow 343 on Jan 4, 2015 wrote:
Ah. i have never cloaked anything so i didnt know that. i now see that. i agree that that is not right. if you cloak a spell and reshuffle it, you shouldnt get the cloaked spell as well as it in normal form along with the actual cloak. that is not fair, i agree with you there.

K.B.
Well, it works the same way with damage enchanting, heal enchanting, or accuracy enchanting a spell. You will get multiplied versions of it, which is great for PvP, it advances further play. It also encourages people to use more complex decks and be able to fit more in, which I like about enchantment spells. I just believe that Bad Juju shouldn't be able to be Cloaked, because there's no point other than furthering cheap strategies.

Geographer
Oct 09, 2011
945
PvP King on Dec 24, 2014 wrote:
I did the math, and the average Death wizard (non-Jade) using Bad Juju today will take 421 damage (98 damage, 17 armor pierce, 46 resist). If the second idea is taken into account, then Bad Juju will always take 300 damage, so this benefits Death wizards in PvE as much as it helps all schools against Death Jades.
But how many people actually use Juju when they're wearing their damage gear? I've never done that or seen anyone do it. It's just more efficient to shield when you don't want to take damage, because that saves you pips and you'll be able to hit sooner. People use Juju a lot more (a lot more meaning that they use it in the first place) when they're wearing Jade.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
lewski on Jan 5, 2015 wrote:
But how many people actually use Juju when they're wearing their damage gear? I've never done that or seen anyone do it. It's just more efficient to shield when you don't want to take damage, because that saves you pips and you'll be able to hit sooner. People use Juju a lot more (a lot more meaning that they use it in the first place) when they're wearing Jade.
Which is the point, if Bad Juju were to change to the way I implied, then it would balance the use of it between attacking Death wizards and Jade Deaths, as neither will have the capability of spamming it to a full advantage.

Geographer
Oct 09, 2011
945
PvP King on Jan 5, 2015 wrote:
Which is the point, if Bad Juju were to change to the way I implied, then it would balance the use of it between attacking Death wizards and Jade Deaths, as neither will have the capability of spamming it to a full advantage.
Well, I don't use it anyway, so it doesn't really concern me. Why did I even start this debate? :P