Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

A sugestion to fix first turn superiority

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Oct 26, 2010
11
Instead of one team always going first in every round which many many times gives them an overwhelming advantage for several reasons, maybe give this a thought...

Spells should be cast in order from least expensive to most expensive pip cost.
1. This would allow anyone the opportunity to throw up their defenses (be it heals, shielding, dispels, or de-buffs) before some insanely huge team killing critical AOE that you know is coming but have no way to do ANYTHING about it smashes into you.
2. It would also make it so the order of people on your own team does not affect the outcome as much because now you would be able to buff them from the last spot instead of needing to be in the front.

I would be glad to hear any unwanted issues this would cause that maybe i did not consider, but i honestly believe this would not only make the playing field MUCH more fair, but would bring a whole new level of strategy to dueling since you wouldn't always want to be so obvious with what you are going to do since everyone has a chance to counter it.

p.s. - if this is unacceptable perhaps making it where EVERY time you are healed back to life while going second the same round you are knocked out, that you retain your pips and buffs. As it is now, it sometimes will save your pips, sometimes save your buffs, and sometimes just start you over from scratch. Seeing as this small advantage was the only good thing for going second, it would be nice if it was consistent.

thank you for your time

Defender
Aug 08, 2010
134
I completely agree with this idea. I actually had thought of this the other day myself and was considering posting it. However, I wasn't thinking in terms of pips, but more wards and charms would be cast first, heals second, and attacks last. Because in a true battle, everyone would be casting simultaneously.

Since this is a turn-based game, the only way to even out the odds a bit is to allow defense moves to go first OR use some sort of randomizer for each player's turn.

So, instead of side A or side B going first, each slot would be picked randomly ala bingo calls. For instance, in 4v4 you would have: A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B2, B3, B4. Each round players would go in a random order: B2, A1, A4, B4, A2, B3, etc. That would probably be the most optimal solution, but would probably require extensive code changes.

I think your suggestion would probably be easier to implement.

Survivor
Oct 21, 2010
1
This is a great idea, it would certainly be an improvement over what we have :-) however what would happen if both players cast a spell with the same pip cost?

Survivor
Nov 12, 2010
34
I actually came up with a similar idea for the cheating (5 power pips to start a fight) Celestia bosses a while back.

The just of it was that every round you progress you could only cast a spell of that power or lower.

First Round: 1 pip or 0 Pip
Second Round: 2 or lower
etc. etc.

This idea might not be so popular with the heavy power hitters, but for the rest of us it would allow the fights to be implemented at a much more gradual pace.

Survivor
Oct 26, 2010
11
shadowstrike66 wrote:
This is a great idea, it would certainly be an improvement over what we have :-) however what would happen if both players cast a spell with the same pip cost?


my thought was for same cost spells it would use the old system. I'm thinking basically that the game looks at the first guy and checks for 0 pip cast, then goes to second guy, then next etc, then it starts back and checks for 1 pip, etc etc.

Survivor
Oct 26, 2010
11
Gelwyn wrote:
I completely agree with this idea. I actually had thought of this the other day myself and was considering posting it. However, I wasn't thinking in terms of pips, but more wards and charms would be cast first, heals second, and attacks last. Because in a true battle, everyone would be casting simultaneously.

Since this is a turn-based game, the only way to even out the odds a bit is to allow defense moves to go first OR use some sort of randomizer for each player's turn.

So, instead of side A or side B going first, each slot would be picked randomly ala bingo calls. For instance, in 4v4 you would have: A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B2, B3, B4. Each round players would go in a random order: B2, A1, A4, B4, A2, B3, etc. That would probably be the most optimal solution, but would probably require extensive code changes.

I think your suggestion would probably be easier to implement.


Yea the idea is based on the thought that everyone casts at the same time. Its just that easier to cast spells "read: cheaper pip cost/lower rank" would naturally be quicker to come out than some huge rank 8 spell someone is summoning all the needed power to use.

Survivor
Feb 11, 2010
40
I disagree the higher pip cost goes first then lower, lower, etc,

Survivor
Oct 26, 2010
11
If this would be too much trouble to code, then maybe something simple like Alternating turns. I don't think it is as good an idea but still think it makes it more balanced than it is currently.

Squire
Apr 11, 2010
575
Or rather, while I'm fine with the whole going first or going second thing, I thought I'd have fun with this:

You go first if you select your spell first. No matter what. 1V1, 2V2, Etc:

Spell activation in order of selection:

3V3:
Team 1:
3 seconds
5 seconds
14 seconds

team 2:
2 seconds
4 seconds
7 seconds

So the order is:
Team 2 member 1 first cast
team 1 member 1 second cast
team 2 member 2 third cast
team 1 member 2 fourth cast
team 2 member 3 fifth cast
team 1 member 3 last cast

This will push wizards to know what they are going to cast and be quick in the decisions made. Meaning players will have to know how their deck is going to play inside out and make their selections quick. Of course minions will have to go last no matter what though because they have automatic cast when players are selecting spells.

Survivor
Nov 20, 2010
1
Dear King Isle,

I agree, many times I have lost just because of the chance of going first, and most of the time. When I am in 4v4, if my team mates do not go first many of them flee and we lose because of numbers! I really want to be a warlord, and I have been trying for months, as a smart man once quoted, "Never Give Up", I don't think anyone should.
Never the less, we should change this and try to be fair, for example;
1.) By every round there should be turns, if Player A went first the next round, Player B would go!

2.)And, you should state you cannot heal two times in a row there should be gaps!Many opponents do not have heal in their decks, which I suggest they do so.

3.) Also, you should not be able to use treasure cards in battle, they dominate and I have used it before however, I have stopped. Because of feeling guilty for the other players. I think you should battle with the cards you have! Because, if Ice uses all the treasure cards blades possible and traps the sow angel would do a great deal of damage, and I think that is just unfair! People use treasure cards to become warlords, and many people didnt!

4.) There should be a rule in which Beguile does not work in pvp! Many times I have lost because of the death advantage. Which I think, is unfair. Plus, the tower shield should not be able to use twice if the first one is not used! Because, once I battled a great warlord of Ice (respected) but my opponent had the advantage of MANY towers. Which left me wasting my spells! Until I had lost them and he had killed me.

5.) The spell in which you get if you are a warlord to block stun and critical, should be available to levels 52+. Because it has a 90% chance which could be saying 100% because every time it blocks and, it should not be able to block stun! There is already an ice shield for that.

6.) Life should have more attack spells, my other life character has a pvp of 102 which is sad, because lief can heal in SO many ways! But it takes a lot of pips for centaur if you are that lvl, and the opponent has a free ticket of beating you!

7.) Finally, in Practice PvP there should be an equal chance of winning! For Example; I had joined a random 1v1 pvp match and I saw my opponent was only starting wizard101, while I had finished! I felt sad for her and I fled. Many would call me a coward, but it just wasn't fair! Also in ranked pvp there should be a legendary against a legendary not a legendary against a grandmaster!

8.) Many people check your school by chat log, for instance when you chat they click your wizard 101 name and check your stats while the other opponent cant! You (Wizard 101) should seriously think about changing this. It gives a huge advantage to your opponent, and it makes the battle unfair! Suggest turning it off for pvp only. :)

9.) You should ban the use of the word, "noob" many people have been offended or have quit this game for this reason exactly! It has hurt people in many ways, and I for one, have felt that pain. Everyone on Earth is the same, and should be treated the same. The none other!

10.) Lastly, when you kick people out of your house they shouldnt be able to come back unless you log on then off, in which they cannot go to your casstle estate or house while you are logged! When you come out of your house and go to one of the wonderful worlds of Wizard 101 every one who was there should be taken to the commons!

Thank you for your time for reading this, I do hope you will at least enforce five of these suggestions! To conclude this, I have written more than pvp, but I have been a voice of many people who do not know of this forum.

Sincerely, Amber

Defender
Oct 15, 2009
130
I dont think we can get away from someone having to go first. I think an improvement and simple to incorporate (in pvp only) is to at least give each wizard a hand in their fate of who will have the greater advantage.

Yes its understood that it is random. But if there is a virtual "coin being tossed" at least lets us call it. This could be dont in a very simple non intrusive manner:

Before the match starts each each sees a place where digits 1-100 are being randomly cycled. Each side of the screen would have the wizards name with the numbers rapidly cycling. There would be ten seconds to click the mouse which would stop on a number. If the mouse was not clicked the number would stop automatically. The person with the highest number goes first. If a tie occured (which would not happen often) the spin would happen again until there is a victor.

This does not take away the advantage but it does give a vested hand on how our luck will place us on such a crucial point. There would be no harm in at least trying it in the test realm.

Survivor
Oct 26, 2010
11
Another possible change that wouldn't help the 1v1, but would dramatically change all team battles, would be alternating turns. for example a 2v2, team A and team B: turn order would go player 1A, then 1B, then 2A, then 2B. I think this is not as good as the original idea, however am just trying to throw as many possible ideas out there in hopes that Kings Isle takes note of this posting and likes at least one, as any change to balance the turn order domination would be good.

p.s.
Please if you agree that something should be done to change the way order of play is done (at least in PVP) please post some response. Be it your own suggestion of a method of change, or just support or even disagreement with other suggestions in this post. The only way something will get done is if Kings Isle knows this is important to many of us. So speak your mind and hopefully it will get the attention of those in charge.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
I'm sorry but I don't like this idea, it would make shielding useless until the turn you attack. No matter when you attack, it will always hit a shield.

As suggested once on central, cut the turns. Meaning, the team who goes first casts and chooses their spells. Then after all the animations are over, the team who goes second will chose and cast their spells. This will help most of the going first problems. I mean in chess, going first inst a big advantage or really one at all because of the turn cutting. (in chess, I prefer to go second so I can see what my opponent is gonna do and make a move based on my opponent's move.)

Survivor
Oct 26, 2010
11
Solstice64 wrote:
I'm sorry but I don't like this idea, it would make shielding useless until the turn you attack. No matter when you attack, it will always hit a shield.

As suggested once on central, cut the turns. Meaning, the team who goes first casts and chooses their spells. Then after all the animations are over, the team who goes second will chose and cast their spells. This will help most of the going first problems. I mean in chess, going first inst a big advantage or really one at all because of the turn cutting. (in chess, I prefer to go second so I can see what my opponent is gonna do and make a move based on my opponent's move.)


I'm not sure what you meant by the first portion, since you can't attack and shield on the same turn. And yes the point was to make it so you CAN shield if its blatantly obvious the opponent is going to attack you this turn. Here is an example of the way it is now, first turn person breaks your shield with their wand, you (going second) don't know this is going to happen so you don't stack a second shield, they follow up with a huge attack that smashes you to death, while you attempt to cast your shield after its too late. If you reverse this, you going second wand off their shield in preparation for your own attack, and the way seems clear for a clean hit for you. now the person going first sees themselves open and while you send in your pick of all your pip attacking, they laugh and put up their shield.

As far as your turn cutting idea, i think that is a great idea as well and would be much happier with that then what is currently in play. thanks for the suggestion.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
SinEight wrote:


I'm not sure what you meant by the first portion, since you can't attack and shield on the same turn. And yes the point was to make it so you CAN shield if its blatantly obvious the opponent is going to attack you this turn. Here is an example of the way it is now, first turn person breaks your shield with their wand, you (going second) don't know this is going to happen so you don't stack a second shield, they follow up with a huge attack that smashes you to death, while you attempt to cast your shield after its too late. If you reverse this, you going second wand off their shield in preparation for your own attack, and the way seems clear for a clean hit for you. now the person going first sees themselves open and while you send in your pick of all your pip attacking, they laugh and put up their shield.


Yes you are correct. I just think it would change pvp and pve to much.