It would completely defeat the purpose of having treasure cards if they were to not be allowed in PVP. After all, you can buy treasure cards in packs with crowns, get them from monsters you kill, Craft them from your school's tree, get them from treasure chests, and even games! They are EVERYWHERE!
The way that treasure cards are absolutely ruining PVP is by none of these ways. They're ruining PVP (and making the game MUCH easier than it should be for some people) by being able to Buy treasure cards. Specifically "Tough" and "Keen Eyes"
Why is it that it only cost 50 gold to buy a keen eyes, when it takes you 6 different reagents, a level 5 card, and 700 gold to craft a level 6 card from a tree? What is the point when you can simply Buy a keen eyes, and have your friend with the spell make you one for 50 gold?
My suggested solution? Remove Keen Eyes and Toughness from the library.
What this would do, is not only allow treasure cards in PVP, but also make them un-abuse-able. With all of the ways you can get treasure cards, why make it so darn easy to duplicate them for hardly any money?
Keen Eyes is a common enough card, as it Toughness, and the other forms of them. Removing them from purchase at the library would also create a TRADING market between players. It's rare you actually have the "need" to trade random players when your friend can make you 25 of whatever card you need for only 2500 gold, and 3 minutes of his time in unicorn way... To buy 25 of these cards would cost you 25,000 gold from the Library!
I strongly urge anyone who reads this post to consider what I've taken the time to write. As a recap: Removing Keen Eyes and Tough from the library will balance the gameplay in PVP, create a better trading economy, and encourage positive interaction between wizards. Afterall, isn't that what this game is all about?
I have never, EVER, thought of it like that. You must be a genius!
Most storm wizards buy toughness and keen eye from the library to make wild bolts, so if the library would stop selling them, there would be a lessening of bolts in the arena! I had thought banning treasure cards was the only solution! Although, there will still be some wild bolts running around for a little while, it's genius!
I like how it would increase trading, because I haven't used most of my good treasure cards, and I haven't been planning on it. For example, I just got monsterous (175+ damage, I think) and I've been to afraid to use it on one my cards incase I might need it for something else. No one seems to be willing to trade a fire dragon or storm lord for a monsterous, either. So, if the storm wizards want to make more wild bolts, they can trade me for a couple storm lords. ( XD )
Overall, nice idea, positive outcome. Me likey! :)
I like your idea, though I don't think it does quite enough to "solve" an issue that I feel could use a looking at - Treasure Cards.
The part I agree with is that the two cards you mentioned are WAY to cheap. Considering how significant these cards are, it's amazing that they are so affordable. So make 'em more expensive - hear, hear.
However, I think a better fix to the rampant use / abuse of treasure cards could be resolved more thoroughly by making it so that "manufactured" treasure cards are NO TRADE items. How sweet would THAT be?
The end result of this would mean far less out-of-school treasure card usage. Treasure cards could still be purchased, found, or else traded, but if a Storm wizard can't simply crank out a mess of super accurate (relatively speaking, of course) Wild Bolts for all his friends, wouldn't this resolve the whole Wild-Bolt-Is-Ridiculous issue too? Of course, Storm wizards could make a bunch for themselves, but who has a problem with wizards using cards from their own school? No one!
Part II of this would then be to To "compensate" for this, perhaps add more treasure card drops in the game or make more of the cards available for sale. HOWEVER, to really make a difference, I think it would greatly enhance the game to make those treasure cards less "powerful" than the same spell learned in a school. Take Tower shield. If you learn this in the Ice school it's a 50% resist, but if you buy the treasure card, it's 55%. Similarly, if you learn re-shuffle from the Balance school it will cost 4 pips to use, but the treasure card version only costs 3. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Surely learning a spell from a school should give you an advantage over someone who spent money to buy the card, no?
While Part II might appear to make treasure cards useless, if manufactured cards could not be traded then treasure cards would become exactly that - TREASURES.
I don't like that idea, actually. My Death Grandmaster spends his time using Keen Eyes to make treasure Wraiths and Scarecrows for a good cause. If you were battling Malistaire, and your Wraith that will one-shot him is hiding too, you'd need a treaure card.
I don't like that idea, actually. My Death Grandmaster spends his time using Keen Eyes to make treasure Wraiths and Scarecrows for a good cause. If you were battling Malistaire, and your Wraith that will one-shot him is hiding too, you'd need a treaure card.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the dungeon that you have to go through to fight Malistair made specifically for a group of wizards? The three switches you have to pull at the same time, and the battle of two Draconians that are timed as well. I'm not saying you wont be able to make stronger wraiths. I am saying you'll have to make them from the treasure cards you've recieved as drops. Somehow I doubt you'll need to buy 15 Tough cards to kill Malistair, although I'm sure you wouldn't need to use any if you just went in with 3 or for wizards. By the time you're at Malistair, you're bound to have collected 6+ Keen eyes, and toughness, which would be more than enough for what you're wanting them for.
As for what caspeen said:
I think that KI went to great lengths to make the treasure card system, with creating, buying, trading, and everything else you can do with them. It seems counter-productive to take away something they've taken the time to script into the game. If you were to remove the keen eyes and tough from the library, I can guarantee you the amount of treasure cards used in PVP would be so small, it would balance the game immensely. Sure, you might get wild bolted every once in a while by a level 16 fire warlord, but he will no longer be able to "cheat" his way to the top. Basically, it will make "Made Treasure Cards" far to elusive to actually abuse in PVP.
It's a no brainer that anyone who's played 50+ matches of PVP has first hand witnessed the abuse of any exploit-ability of the PVP system. I am confident this idea will put an end to the wild bolt abuse. I do believe there are more topics on the unfairness of wild bolt, and in turn treasure cards, than any other subject on the entirety of the wizard101 forums, and the amount of time it would take to remove keen eyes and tough from the library is almost nonexistent, while making "made treasure cards" non-trade-able would most certainly take a lot of effort of the scriptwriters of KI.
If KI does this, and I'm wrong about it evening PVP, then obviously greater measures will need to be taken, but I think it's a pretty good idea for now.
It would completely defeat the purpose of having treasure cards if they were to not be allowed in PVP. After all, you can buy treasure cards in packs with crowns, get them from monsters you kill, Craft them from your school's tree, get them from treasure chests, and even games! They are EVERYWHERE!
The way that treasure cards are absolutely ruining PVP is by none of these ways. They're ruining PVP (and making the game MUCH easier than it should be for some people) by being able to Buy treasure cards. Specifically "Tough" and "Keen Eyes"
Why is it that it only cost 50 gold to buy a keen eyes, when it takes you 6 different reagents, a level 5 card, and 700 gold to craft a level 6 card from a tree? What is the point when you can simply Buy a keen eyes, and have your friend with the spell make you one for 50 gold?
My suggested solution? Remove Keen Eyes and Toughness from the library.
What this would do, is not only allow treasure cards in PVP, but also make them un-abuse-able. With all of the ways you can get treasure cards, why make it so darn easy to duplicate them for hardly any money?
Keen Eyes is a common enough card, as it Toughness, and the other forms of them. Removing them from purchase at the library would also create a TRADING market between players. It's rare you actually have the "need" to trade random players when your friend can make you 25 of whatever card you need for only 2500 gold, and 3 minutes of his time in unicorn way... To buy 25 of these cards would cost you 25,000 gold from the Library!
I strongly urge anyone who reads this post to consider what I've taken the time to write. As a recap: Removing Keen Eyes and Tough from the library will balance the gameplay in PVP, create a better trading economy, and encourage positive interaction between wizards. Afterall, isn't that what this game is all about?
Regards, Ravenfell
what about me and others like me that take there grandmasters and make card and dont trade but go to the the arena with (storm lord) happy there not going to fizzle as much you think its right to take that away from me to help you out and what about the young wizards that like to make a big hit is it really right to take that from them i understand how you feel i was in a fight 2 days ago and seen a lvl 27 death fizzle one out of 6 bolts this is not right i know we lost no a bolting noob and at the end of the fight we got to see him run his pie hole to us scot deathhammer
what about me and others like me that take there grandmasters and make card and dont trade but go to the the arena with (storm lord) happy there not going to fizzle as much you think its right to take that away from me to help you out and what about the young wizards that like to make a big hit is it really right to take that from them i understand how you feel i was in a fight 2 days ago and seen a lvl 27 death fizzle one out of 6 bolts this is not right i know we lost no a bolting noob and at the end of the fight we got to see him run his pie hole to us scot deathhammer
You're not hearing my idea at all. I'm not asking to take away the keen eyes card from the game. Only the library. If you're a high enough level to have the spell storm lord, then you've been in the game enough to have found a handful of treasure keen eyes or sniper, etc. You'd still be able to make your precious 80% storm lord.
You act like it's the end of the world, and I'm wanted to take away keen eyes, then you turn around and complain about a death wizard using wild bolt. My proposal would give you EXACTLY what you're asking for! You can still make your cards, and a level 27 death wizard wont be able to afford a million wild bolts anymore.
1) make enchanted treasure cards untradable, like they are unusable for crafting and unsellable at the bazaar? No Trade tag added when enchanting is too much scripting for a scripter? Come on if these scripters are that lazy fire them and hire some that would take this as a challenge.
2) Instead of removing or raising the cost of Tought and keen eyes make cloak treasure cards available at the library for 50 gold so you can enchants storm or tower shields the way you can enchant wild bolt and judgement. You'll see a lot less wild bolt treasure cards being use in pvp if everyone can get a a storm shield on first and second turn. sure there's always a way to get rid of those shields but those take turns.
But that solution would cause another problem.
Instead of having a lot of people complaining about wild bolt and judgment treasure cards you would read people complaining about Spirit and Elemental shields treasure cards.
1) make enchanted treasure cards untradable, like they are unusable for crafting and unsellable at the bazaar? No Trade tag added when enchanting is too much scripting for a scripter? Come on if these scripters are that lazy fire them and hire some that would take this as a challenge.
Djark
This makes you sound so ungrateful for the wizard game. It seems the second I propose an idea that would out right FIX the problem with any school other than lightning relying on treasure wildbolts/higher spells they have learned. KI has done a lot since I've started playing wizards back in march. Obviously PVP has taken a back seat, because so few players actually participate in it. Probably because of how exploitable it is right now. I for one am grateful for the PVP system that we currently have. Although it's frustrating to lose to a treasure card from a class that isn't theirs, I am a warlord ranked Myth Grandmaster with full PVP gear, and i still enjoy playing PVP, even though there's nothing more I desire to purchase with tickets. I've never used a single treasure card that was not obtained from game play. I've never crafted a treasure card for PVP.
By making crafted treasure cards un-trade-able, you entirely take away from the dynamics of the game. If you've gotten as far as getting your final spell for your class, then you've worked hard, and deserve some value off of that card for trading. But it's overkill when you can make 30 storm lords in 5 minutes... Even for non PVP, that seems a bit ridiculous.
It seems in this forum, people ONLY demand "remove this, remove that" I've seen topics asking to BAN balance players. I've seen topics stating that "WILD BOLT HAS TO BE REMOVED OR I QUIT" And your proposition isn't any different. Instead of calling KI lazy, or making tons of demands to make the game better, I suggested a thought out solution that won't alter game play or experiences at all.
The only reason why anyone would be against my proposed Idea, is because they themselves feel the need to have 40 treasure cards of the same spell! And my reply to that is: get over it, and be grateful for your school's strengths, and have fun playing an addictive game.
But why make a change that affects the entire game when really, you just want to address a PVP problem.
An alternative (and I'm not saying that I support this) is how about just make user-crafted treasure cards unavailable in the arena? KI knows how to distinguish these from regular treasure cards since you can't sell user-crafted treasure cards in the bazaar.
Let's not make changes to the entire game to solve something that only exists in one aspect of the game.
hi,hows it goin`. im a lvl 50 diviner who has a bit of a tendency to wild bolt EVERYBODY on the field `till there gone.im rank commando right now,but,i was wondering,is it REALLY that annoying when u get hit by wild bolt in pvp? im not trying to start something,im just askin` a question.what would it fell like in someone elses shoes if i got deafted by a diviner who just wild bolted me to bits with his sniper(i have `bout 6 right now,i get them from bosses in mooshoe.im lookin at u plaque oni!)
1. While I definitely think you suggestions would be a step in the right direction, I do not think it is the fix-all you believe it to be. That folks are using Tough and Keen pales in comparison to what most feel is the greater evil of some "abusing" cards.
2. This is not a Fix-it-or-else rant. On the contrary - I really enjoy this game as it is and have no intentions of leaving. That some out there are wild bolt happy or not has no bearing on the enjoyment I derive from playing. However, there are a number of folks out there that are put off, and for one reason or another, most have expressed their opinions either badly or as threats. It's because of this that I came up with what I feel would address this issue.
Now, to your point that my suggestions that "manufactured" treasure cards should be NO TRADE items would undermine what KI has put a great deal of effort into creating, it's my belief that KI never anticipated the full effect that these cards would have. And while I acknowledge that it would indeed take a great deal of re-coding for them, I know for a fact it's not the first time they have re-thought something because of unintended consequences. Take how they made Crown gear less powerful. Take that they eliminated at least one spell (the one that made a wizard only have a max of three pips). If they think something needs to change, they will.
At the end of the day it's up to KI to decide if this issue needs addressing or not. They read these posts, they listen to what is being said, and they do what they feel is in the best interest of the game. In the very same spirit you posted your suggestion, I gave my 2 (hopefully well thought out) cents because I feel that things CAN be improved. Much as I enjoy the game now, I think ending the trade of "manufactured" Treasure cards would enhance the game and bring a bit more balance to the pvp arena.
This makes you sound so ungrateful for the wizard game.
I pay my subscriptions and buy crowns. As a consumer I can request from a company to rectify a design flaw to a product I purchased or I can also not renew my subscription and stop playing if my request is ignored or discredited, we'll just have to see how long it takes.
It feels boring. Bolt spamming makes a really boring match. I PvP to have fun and fight in a challenging duel. The problem with a lot of players is there is no challenge just win at all costs. :(
BTW, you're asking KI to remove Enchantment cards like it's their fault. It's not. This is all on us, the players.
How does it feel? It bites! BUT, that's what you Storm folks are SUPPOSED to do! I have no problems getting hit a few times by Wild Bolt, but when it's a LIFE, or DEATH, or some none Storm school wizard it seems to get to some more. Me, personally, think it's folly for many to use a Wild-bolt only strategy - in fact, I almost always win against those who try this. Go ahead and try, I say. But I know I'm not the majority when it comes to that feeling.
However, I'm pretty sure that few have a hard time when a storm wizard uses wild bolt. It sucks to lose, but if you fight a Storm wizard you won't rise very far in arena play if you don't expect a few wild bolts to come your way.
Not sure if you're still following up on your thread, but I would be remiss if I didn't follow up here with an epiphany I had.
In a nutshell - I owe you an apology.
Seems as if I wasn't seeing your suggestion through all the way because if you're idea was implemented - no buying of Keen or Tough - then my idea of making "manufactured" cards NO TRADE items would almost happen as a result. After all, without those two cards, you can't manufacture cards, right?
And since any card needed to "manufacture" a card would be rare or at least hard to come by, who would want to give these away? They'd be TREASURES! Woohoo - real Treasure Cards!
Though I thought your idea was good but not enough before, I've come around now - it's brilliant. KI, make it so!
Sorry I posted first and really thought about it after that. Oh, the sins of the internet!
Though I thought your idea was good but not enough before, I've come around now - it's brilliant. KI, make it so!
mlb
Exactly! That's the point! Not only would if totally FIX wild bolting fire wizards, it would make a treasure wild bolt, or a treasure wraith, or ANY player-made treasure card infinitely more valuable, creating a very cool market for players to actually trade!
Having a level 14 life wizard with only heal cards and a side deck full of treasure wild bolts will be too expensive to keep up.
And those of us who find a tough, keen eyes, or their higher forms, will be just as excited as if we found a storm triton from a silver chest!
It would completely defeat the purpose of having treasure cards if they were to not be allowed in PVP. After all, you can buy treasure cards in packs with crowns, get them from monsters you kill, Craft them from your school's tree, get them from treasure chests, and even games! They are EVERYWHERE!
The way that treasure cards are absolutely ruining PVP is by none of these ways. They're ruining PVP (and making the game MUCH easier than it should be for some people) by being able to Buy treasure cards. Specifically "Tough" and "Keen Eyes"
Why is it that it only cost 50 gold to buy a keen eyes, when it takes you 6 different reagents, a level 5 card, and 700 gold to craft a level 6 card from a tree? What is the point when you can simply Buy a keen eyes, and have your friend with the spell make you one for 50 gold?
My suggested solution? Remove Keen Eyes and Toughness from the library.
What this would do, is not only allow treasure cards in PVP, but also make them un-abuse-able. With all of the ways you can get treasure cards, why make it so darn easy to duplicate them for hardly any money?
Keen Eyes is a common enough card, as it Toughness, and the other forms of them. Removing them from purchase at the library would also create a TRADING market between players. It's rare you actually have the "need" to trade random players when your friend can make you 25 of whatever card you need for only 2500 gold, and 3 minutes of his time in unicorn way... To buy 25 of these cards would cost you 25,000 gold from the Library!
I strongly urge anyone who reads this post to consider what I've taken the time to write. As a recap: Removing Keen Eyes and Tough from the library will balance the gameplay in PVP, create a better trading economy, and encourage positive interaction between wizards. Afterall, isn't that what this game is all about?
Regards, Ravenfell
I know you mean well and i understand what your trying to do its not a very bad idea but there are a few wholes in the situation if keen eyes and tough aren't in the library for instance;
crafting the cards: Yes you can go through the work of crafting the cards you want but here's the problem in my opinion it takes a long time do the higher level card you want lets say I want an earthquake card well if i want one of those it requires me to have a minotaur card and if i don't have any myth friends who could lend over one of there minotaur treasures for me then i have to go through the trouble of crafting a minotaur card which ( please correct me if I'm wrong) also requires another myth card which you will have to craft so you go through all that work just for ( again correct me if I'm wrong) 1 card
another problem that I see in my opinion is just being able making treasure cards by getting tough keen eyes etc. is that's its pretty rare that you get cards like those and on average by the time you've completed the game you have about 15 of those types of cards ( this is just going by how many my characters have after finishing the game ). So now once you've run out out of them what can you do to make treasure cards fight enemies over and over again just to get one card when you might want to make a lot more
now just one of my most likely foolish ideas would be to make a little treasure card making area where you get one of your cards and buy a tough or keen eyes at the same time and for the higher level or maybe higher amounts made the more it cost for the keen eyes or tough to make it There are probably holes in this idea of mine so feel free to fill in on what i missed it would be greatly appreciated
I know you mean well and i understand what your trying to do its not a very bad idea but there are a few wholes in the situation if keen eyes and tough aren't in the library for instance;
crafting the cards: Yes you can go through the work of crafting the cards you want but here's the problem in my opinion it takes a long time do the higher level card you want lets say I want an earthquake card well if i want one of those it requires me to have a minotaur card and if i don't have any myth friends who could lend over one of there minotaur treasures for me then i have to go through the trouble of crafting a minotaur card which ( please correct me if I'm wrong) also requires another myth card which you will have to craft so you go through all that work just for ( again correct me if I'm wrong) 1 card
another problem that I see in my opinion is just being able making treasure cards by getting tough keen eyes etc. is that's its pretty rare that you get cards like those and on average by the time you've completed the game you have about 15 of those types of cards ( this is just going by how many my characters have after finishing the game ). So now once you've run out out of them what can you do to make treasure cards fight enemies over and over again just to get one card when you might want to make a lot more
now just one of my most likely foolish ideas would be to make a little treasure card making area where you get one of your cards and buy a tough or keen eyes at the same time and for the higher level or maybe higher amounts made the more it cost for the keen eyes or tough to make it There are probably holes in this idea of mine so feel free to fill in on what i missed it would be greatly appreciated
sincerely foulsteel
What would you EVER need more than 15 made treasure cards for? Unless the answer is to cheat in PVP. And there's a reason why it should be harder to craft higher level spells.
I know you mean well and i understand what your trying to do its not a very bad idea but there are a few wholes in the situation if keen eyes and tough aren't in the library for instance;
crafting the cards: Yes you can go through the work of crafting the cards you want but here's the problem in my opinion it takes a long time do the higher level card you want lets say I want an earthquake card well if i want one of those it requires me to have a minotaur card and if i don't have any myth friends who could lend over one of there minotaur treasures for me then i have to go through the trouble of crafting a minotaur card which ( please correct me if I'm wrong) also requires another myth card which you will have to craft so you go through all that work just for ( again correct me if I'm wrong) 1 card
another problem that I see in my opinion is just being able making treasure cards by getting tough keen eyes etc. is that's its pretty rare that you get cards like those and on average by the time you've completed the game you have about 15 of those types of cards ( this is just going by how many my characters have after finishing the game ). So now once you've run out out of them what can you do to make treasure cards fight enemies over and over again just to get one card when you might want to make a lot more
now just one of my most likely foolish ideas would be to make a little treasure card making area where you get one of your cards and buy a tough or keen eyes at the same time and for the higher level or maybe higher amounts made the more it cost for the keen eyes or tough to make it There are probably holes in this idea of mine so feel free to fill in on what i missed it would be greatly appreciated
sincerely foulsteel
What would you EVER need more than 15 made treasure cards for? Unless the answer is to cheat in PVP. And there's a reason why it should be harder to craft higher level spells.
to make cards for yourself as well as others and 15 cards doesn't even fill up the treasure card hold amount for level 35 spells
to make cards for yourself as well as others and 15 cards doesn't even fill up the treasure card hold amount for level 35 spells
That's exactly what's gotten us into trouble in the first place! Making cards for others? That's ridiculous. You should be TRADING cards with other players. So what if 15 man-made wild bolts wont fill up your side deck. If you're level 35, then you've found 30+ OTHER treasure cards you can put in your side deck.
Even with your 15 treasure wild bolts, you will have, what, 7 easy matches on PVP, then have to actually earn your rank.
to make cards for yourself as well as others and 15 cards doesn't even fill up the treasure card hold amount for level 35 spells
That's exactly what's gotten us into trouble in the first place! Making cards for others? That's ridiculous. You should be TRADING cards with other players. So what if 15 man-made wild bolts wont fill up your side deck. If you're level 35, then you've found 30+ OTHER treasure cards you can put in your side deck.
Even with your 15 treasure wild bolts, you will have, what, 7 easy matches on PVP, then have to actually earn your rank.
I see your point but and going by what you said would help the the wild bolt problem but that also hurt the people who just want to make cards for friends
Whats wrong with making cards for your friends who just wanna see what its like using a cool card you should be able to make cards for your friends as well as using them for trading, treasure cards are used outside of pvp and going with what you said its gonna make the treasure card economy tougher just to help a problem with one card
what about me and others like me that take there grandmasters and make card and dont trade but go to the the arena with (storm lord) happy there not going to fizzle as much you think its right to take that away from me to help you out and what about the young wizards that like to make a big hit is it really right to take that from them i understand how you feel i was in a fight 2 days ago and seen a lvl 27 death fizzle one out of 6 bolts this is not right i know we lost no a bolting noob and at the end of the fight we got to see him run his pie hole to us scot deathhammer
You're not hearing my idea at all. I'm not asking to take away the keen eyes card from the game. Only the library. If you're a high enough level to have the spell storm lord, then you've been in the game enough to have found a handful of treasure keen eyes or sniper, etc. You'd still be able to make your precious 80% storm lord.
You act like it's the end of the world, and I'm wanted to take away keen eyes, then you turn around and complain about a death wizard using wild bolt. My proposal would give you EXACTLY what you're asking for! You can still make your cards, and a level 27 death wizard wont be able to afford a million wild bolts anymore.
i was not complaining about it not at all i just feel some spells should be there school only maybe this would help the game some you say to only take them from the library only thats not going to help at all i sometimes spend all of the day at bazaar to buy sniper cards and i would say about 2000 keen eyes every day get sold there maybe more and as far as someone finding them cards i have 4 grandmasters and to noobs and i could not play at the arena for 3 fights with what i have found i could see the point that it would be cool if everyone could craft them and thats how you get them then there would be a cool down on how fast you could get the cards maybe something like that would be nice
i was not complaining about it not at all i just feel some spells should be there school only maybe this would help the game some you say to only take them from the library only thats not going to help at all i sometimes spend all of the day at bazaar to buy sniper cards and i would say about 2000 keen eyes every day get sold there maybe more and as far as someone finding them cards i have 4 grandmasters and to noobs and i could not play at the arena for 3 fights with what i have found i could see the point that it would be cool if everyone could craft them and thats how you get them then there would be a cool down on how fast you could get the cards maybe something like that would be nice
Remove Keen Eyes and Toughness from the library.
:P