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A non-pvper's perspective on the imbalance

AuthorMessage
Mastermind
Feb 07, 2010
387
So, right. I don't do PvP, so this isn't some snobby guy who fixes every problem by throwing crown at it complaining about his several year winning streak getting broken. But I've heard the people saying that the game is unplayable due to broken PvP, and in addition to not feeling a need to assert my dominance over anyone, I still think I'm better off for not partaking in it.

It's not about any specific spells that are so game-changing they need to have special rules for PvP. I'm not familiar with the algorithm for matching players of similar skill levels, so I can't say anything about that either way. It's a simple principle that applies to any game. The winners are being given better gear.

Now of course, it makes sense in PvE, better gear helps you fight stronger monsters. But the reason that works is because power is a spectrum in PvE, and the monsters don't complain about not being able to better themselves. But in PvP, where everyone is equally deserving, and the opponents actually have feelings, you have to prevent the scales from tipping in any direction.

Consider this scenario, two wizards just finished dueling. Winner now qualifies for better gear, loser has to keep old gear. They duel again. Previous loser loses again because other wizard is now more powerful. Process repeats, the same wizard wins over and over because the loser can't upgrade gear without winning, but can't win without upgrading gear. It's a catch 22 that turns the PvP rankings into an Orwellian dystopia.

The way to keep any PvP system balanced is to not punish the losers. And making the winners more likely to keep winning does exactly that, punish the losers.

So try this. Make all PvP gear and spells available to anyone regardless of rank. If they're losers, it might be a slow climb to gather enough tickets to afford them, but at least they don't get pushed down.

Squire
Sep 30, 2018
567
average moe on Apr 7, 2019 wrote:
So, right. I don't do PvP, so this isn't some snobby guy who fixes every problem by throwing crown at it complaining about his several year winning streak getting broken. But I've heard the people saying that the game is unplayable due to broken PvP, and in addition to not feeling a need to assert my dominance over anyone, I still think I'm better off for not partaking in it.

It's not about any specific spells that are so game-changing they need to have special rules for PvP. I'm not familiar with the algorithm for matching players of similar skill levels, so I can't say anything about that either way. It's a simple principle that applies to any game. The winners are being given better gear.

Now of course, it makes sense in PvE, better gear helps you fight stronger monsters. But the reason that works is because power is a spectrum in PvE, and the monsters don't complain about not being able to better themselves. But in PvP, where everyone is equally deserving, and the opponents actually have feelings, you have to prevent the scales from tipping in any direction.

Consider this scenario, two wizards just finished dueling. Winner now qualifies for better gear, loser has to keep old gear. They duel again. Previous loser loses again because other wizard is now more powerful. Process repeats, the same wizard wins over and over because the loser can't upgrade gear without winning, but can't win without upgrading gear. It's a catch 22 that turns the PvP rankings into an Orwellian dystopia.

The way to keep any PvP system balanced is to not punish the losers. And making the winners more likely to keep winning does exactly that, punish the losers.

So try this. Make all PvP gear and spells available to anyone regardless of rank. If they're losers, it might be a slow climb to gather enough tickets to afford them, but at least they don't get pushed down.
Totally agree with this post, but there is only one issue with it. This only applies to low pvp where commander gears is a thing. At max pvp the issue is pay to win gears that's been either combine or implemented over pve gears such as malistare or krok and bone one shot dungeon gears. Lately i been noticing the better stuff are becoming the put your money where your mouth is. If you wanna brag about cool stuff you gotta spend money on it from bundle gears to packs which is so unhealthy in my opinion. Sadly, that's the game right now we used to enjoy business before fun.

Squire
Feb 29, 2012
502
angellifeheart on Apr 9, 2019 wrote:
Totally agree with this post, but there is only one issue with it. This only applies to low pvp where commander gears is a thing. At max pvp the issue is pay to win gears that's been either combine or implemented over pve gears such as malistare or krok and bone one shot dungeon gears. Lately i been noticing the better stuff are becoming the put your money where your mouth is. If you wanna brag about cool stuff you gotta spend money on it from bundle gears to packs which is so unhealthy in my opinion. Sadly, that's the game right now we used to enjoy business before fun.
True enough.

Still, wouldn't hurt to implement it anyways. If you're just playing for the Commander Robe you can one and done farm for it at low levels then run back off to PvE with your pretty stitch. It seems sort of like the golden weapon dilemma in Overwatch without the added benefit of 'everybody can get one with enough grinding.' It takes longer to get one the lower ranked you are in Overwatch, but it is still possible. And once you've gotten all the ones you want you generally don't play competitive anymore if it isn't your thing.

Squire
Sep 30, 2018
567
Scarlet Nightdream... on Apr 24, 2019 wrote:
True enough.

Still, wouldn't hurt to implement it anyways. If you're just playing for the Commander Robe you can one and done farm for it at low levels then run back off to PvE with your pretty stitch. It seems sort of like the golden weapon dilemma in Overwatch without the added benefit of 'everybody can get one with enough grinding.' It takes longer to get one the lower ranked you are in Overwatch, but it is still possible. And once you've gotten all the ones you want you generally don't play competitive anymore if it isn't your thing.
In all honesty pvp should have already have custom gear sets that should be mandatory for all schools pvp only. The imbalance case in this scenario is better stats with better ranks (low level only) which shouldn't be the cast.