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144% crit + 25%veng - 90% conviction=79% crit

AuthorMessage
Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153

I was on my level 28 ice wizard, after spending crowns to train conviction mind you, and this guy walks in the arena with 144% critical chance, uses vengeance so his crit chance is really 169% and even through my conviction and tower and weakness which is all I had time to pump out before he cast that genie--- the conviction bubble OBVIOUSLY did NOT block the critical strike, OK? why would it? He had 79% chance to land a critical through the conviction (if you do the math).

Honestly who in Kings Isle had the bright idea to let critical chance available from gear to be over 75%? Can I have that guy's job please? I'm smart, I can do math really well and currently looking for a new thing. :D

Administrator
Critical and block stats are not percentages, they're integers.

144 crit does not equal 144%


community@wizard101.com
Defender
Dec 14, 2009
111
Professor Greyrose wrote:
Critical and block stats are not percentages, they're integers.

144 crit does not equal 144%

Thank you for chiming in Professor Greyrose. I was just going to reply with something similar, as I was aware of the fact Critical wasn't a percentage.

Is there documentation somewhere that explains how the critical numbers work, so mathmatical people like us can read through it and have a better understanding of how it affects our chance to hit critical in battle?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven SkullHammer - Level 60 (Legendary Thaumaturge)
Steven SkullHammer - Level 60 (Legendary Pyromancer)
Steven SkullHammer - Level 60 (Legendary Theurgist)
Steven SkullHammer - Level 58 (Grandmaster Diviner)
Steven SkullHammer - Level 41 (Master Sorcerer)
Steven SkullHammer - Level 39 (Magus Necromancer)

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
144 is roughly like 20 some percent? And i'm guessing you were fighting a storm because that is the only school I know of that can get that much critical. But i know i know your midlevel warlord so of course how can people expect you to know a lot about critical. So i hope they read this before the mean comments come.

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
Professor Greyrose wrote:
Critical and block stats are not percentages, they're integers.

144 crit does not equal 144%


Well then, what DOES it equal?

You might as well tell us how to figure the math correctly, since everyone in the game continues to try to figure it out as percentages.

you're not fixing anything, or solving anything, by refusing to tell us the correct way to figure the chances.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
laurawatersong wrote:

I was on my level 28 ice wizard, after spending crowns to train conviction mind you, and this guy walks in the arena with 144% critical chance, uses vengeance so his crit chance is really 169% and even through my conviction and tower and weakness which is all I had time to pump out before he cast that genie--- the conviction bubble OBVIOUSLY did NOT block the critical strike, OK? why would it? He had 79% chance to land a critical through the conviction (if you do the math).

Honestly who in Kings Isle had the bright idea to let critical chance available from gear to be over 75%? Can I have that guy's job please? I'm smart, I can do math really well and currently looking for a new thing. :D

Can somebody get Laura a coffee... lol ;) to her defense she is mainly a mid level duelist and might be unfamiliar with the system, it is kind of confusing

Administrator
We covered everything we are going to release on this in the Update Notes for October 2010.

https://www.wizard101.com/game/update-notes/october2010

Critical and Block Statistics
The Critical and Block system is an addition to the existing dueling system that allows players to perform Critical Hits on opponents and avoid incoming Critical Hits. This will give players new strategies and defenses in combat and new ways to further build up their Wizard!

You'll notice your character sheet has changed a little.

The two new stats being added to the game are called Critical Hit Rating and Block Rating
Critical Hit Rating increase the player's chance of getting a critical hit.
Block Rating increases the player's chance of avoiding incoming critical hits.
Players will gain Critical Hit and Block bonuses from equipment.

The chance for a critical hit or a block is calculated AFTER fizzle and accuracy. When a spell fizzles no calculation for critical hit or block is made.
Charms, Enchantments, Wards, Manipulations and Globals are not subject to the Block / Critical system. Heals cannot be Blocked, but they can Critical!

You will also notice with these Critical and Block Statistics, that the Combat Rating System displays as a numeric value and not a percentage.
Equipment will have values of "+14 Block Rating" as opposed to the "+1% Block" style of statistic you are accustomed to seeing.


community@wizard101.com
Delver
Jul 04, 2010
294
To see your actually critical and critical block percentage, hold your mouse over your rating and you'll see your percentage.

My pyromancer, for example, with a 142 critical rating has 24% critical chance with fire attacks and a 6% critical chance everything else. Critical block he has a 73 rating all with a 15% block chance. It feels like more though since he has block 90% or better of all the critical attacks that have been thrown at him.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
laurawatersong wrote:

I was on my level 28 ice wizard, after spending crowns to train conviction mind you, and this guy walks in the arena with 144% critical chance, uses vengeance so his crit chance is really 169% and even through my conviction and tower and weakness which is all I had time to pump out before he cast that genie--- the conviction bubble OBVIOUSLY did NOT block the critical strike, OK? why would it? He had 79% chance to land a critical through the conviction (if you do the math).

Honestly who in Kings Isle had the bright idea to let critical chance available from gear to be over 75%? Can I have that guy's job please? I'm smart, I can do math really well and currently looking for a new thing. :D


Hi Laura,

If your number is 144, then to calculate it as a percentage you take 144 divided by 500 which equals .288, then multiply by 100 and you get a percentage of 28.8 percent.

Joe,

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
Professor Greyrose,

The aforementioned fire LEGEND wizard that I was fighting with my level 28 warlord (of your own school) critically struck me three times in a row over two matches to kill me ----- each of his strikes were through conviction.

I'm not sure where you stand on critical block gear for low level warlord on PvP, but I'm assuming that if anyone of your company does not believe in this, it is because they presume that conviction can do its work.

I am not exagerating and I'm not lying - I'm an analytical person - this person really did critically strike me three times in a row through conviction.

But everyone that you are matching my ice warlord with can critically strike - I'm already using Power Play and Conviction in an attempt to even the playing and it's not working - I don't believe in downranking because I think it's a cheap abuse of the system.

Why is your critical rating chance - the integer not the percentage - not doing its job? I'm a poor level 28 wizard against a legend - I dont always have conviction available, but when I do, I do want that other wizard to have 1 chance in 10 to critically strike me (at most).

Why isn't this a reality? Why isn't it true? What else are we low levels supposed to do against legends, the only things low level warlords get matched with nine times out of ten.

Thank you in advance for responding,
LW

Survivor
Apr 12, 2009
24
If you move your mouse over the critical/block rating on your character sheet, it shows you the percentage of your critical/block chance. Mine is 110 for life, and it shows +3% Everlasting Staaff, +6% Cape of Esprit, +12% Hood of Esprit. Block is 72 to all, shows +5% Everlasting Staff, +6% Boots of Esprit, +3% Cape of Esprit, and +2% Wintertusk Ring of Courage.

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
Eric Stormbringer from Central would like me to post a link to his explanation for how critical rating works on this thread:

http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155721&highlight=

and wants to ask Professor Greyrose if he is right.

Under his explanation, what ocurred to me, three criticals through conviction of a legend fire to an adept ice has 4/1000 chances of happening.

I don't think I'm THAT unlucky so the explanation in the link above probably needs fine-tuning.

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
Lion359 wrote:
laurawatersong wrote:

I was on my level 28 ice wizard, after spending crowns to train conviction mind you, and this guy walks in the arena with 144% critical chance, uses vengeance so his crit chance is really 169% and even through my conviction and tower and weakness which is all I had time to pump out before he cast that genie--- the conviction bubble OBVIOUSLY did NOT block the critical strike, OK? why would it? He had 79% chance to land a critical through the conviction (if you do the math).

Honestly who in Kings Isle had the bright idea to let critical chance available from gear to be over 75%? Can I have that guy's job please? I'm smart, I can do math really well and currently looking for a new thing. :-D


Hi Laura,

If your number is 144, then to calculate it as a percentage you take 144 divided by 500 which equals .288, then multiply by 100 and you get a percentage of 28.8 percent.

Joe,


Read these conviction and vengeance spells rather carefully.

Turns out conviction is 90 integer and vengeance is 25% percentage. -.-

So let's do some math, assuming the 500-base theory is correct.

Vengeance is giving people 125 critical rating which is equal to 25% percent under the 500-base theory.

This means that not only does vengeance FULLY CANCEL a conviction, it still adds more crit chance.

>< In addition, it means that conviction is an 18% reduced critical chance bubble. OK - who thought of doing that and why does it make sense to any designer in a game where adept warlords are routinely matched with legends?

I mean, who thinks it's fun to play an adept that can't critical strike and get hit with a triple bladed, feinted, and towered against legendary judge that critically strikes? There's nothing the adept can do. Zero. Nothing. Now I don't know who thinks that people enjoy playing a helpless scenario but we got enough helpless scenarios in real life to come seek them out in a fantasy game. :-( By the way, that legend's judge did 3,500 damage through a tower shield.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
laurawatersong wrote:
Read these conviction and vengeance spells rather carefully.

Turns out conviction is 90 integer and vengeance is 25% percentage. -.-

So let's do some math, assuming the 500-base theory is correct.

Vengeance is giving people 125 critical rating which is equal to 25% percent under the 500-base theory.

This means that not only does vengeance FULLY CANCEL a conviction, it still adds more crit chance.


Just a side note... The block scale is different than the critical scale. It seems that block is on a scale of 450 (most likely) and if you compare a learned vengeance of +20% to a learned conviction of +90 then they come out equally since 90 is exactly 20% of 450. You are correct though, there is more advantage to a treasure vengeance because there is no treasure conviction.

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
gtarhannon wrote:
laurawatersong wrote:
Read these conviction and vengeance spells rather carefully.

Turns out conviction is 90 integer and vengeance is 25% percentage. -.-

So let's do some math, assuming the 500-base theory is correct.

Vengeance is giving people 125 critical rating which is equal to 25% percent under the 500-base theory.

This means that not only does vengeance FULLY CANCEL a conviction, it still adds more crit chance.


Just a side note... The block scale is different than the critical scale. It seems that block is on a scale of 450 (most likely) and if you compare a learned vengeance of +20% to a learned conviction of +90 then they come out equally since 90 is exactly 20% of 450. You are correct though, there is more advantage to a treasure vengeance because there is no treasure conviction.


Them couch potatoes that you have to pay crowns for give treasure conviction. I have tried to do everything, leaving no stone unturned to defeat the legends that I am routinely matched with and I'm simply feeling hopeless when legends routinely critically strike through my conviction bubble. They can one-shot me through my tower shield AND the weakness I cast on them.

I think Professor Greyrose should be rolly polly about this and convince someone in KI to release warlord gear with critical block.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
gtarhannon wrote:
laurawatersong wrote:
Read these conviction and vengeance spells rather carefully.

Turns out conviction is 90 integer and vengeance is 25% percentage. -.-

So let's do some math, assuming the 500-base theory is correct.

Vengeance is giving people 125 critical rating which is equal to 25% percent under the 500-base theory.

This means that not only does vengeance FULLY CANCEL a conviction, it still adds more crit chance.


Just a side note... The block scale is different than the critical scale. It seems that block is on a scale of 450 (most likely) and if you compare a learned vengeance of +20% to a learned conviction of +90 then they come out equally since 90 is exactly 20% of 450. You are correct though, there is more advantage to a treasure vengeance because there is no treasure conviction.


Actually, there is a treasure conviction, but you have to get a crown plant to get them...

Delver
Feb 16, 2010
235
gtarhannon wrote:

Just a side note... The block scale is different than the critical scale. It seems that block is on a scale of 450 (most likely) and if you compare a learned vengeance of +20% to a learned conviction of +90 then they come out equally since 90 is exactly 20% of 450. You are correct though, there is more advantage to a treasure vengeance because there is no treasure conviction.


Actually there is a treasure conviction. It is available on the possible drops through gardening if you raise Couch Potatoes. It gives a +95 critical block rating.

Edited to correct that sneaky percent that got in there after all this discussion of percents and integers.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
gtarhannon wrote:
laurawatersong wrote:
Read these conviction and vengeance spells rather carefully.

Turns out conviction is 90 integer and vengeance is 25% percentage. -.-

So let's do some math, assuming the 500-base theory is correct.

Vengeance is giving people 125 critical rating which is equal to 25% percent under the 500-base theory.

This means that not only does vengeance FULLY CANCEL a conviction, it still adds more crit chance.


Just a side note... The block scale is different than the critical scale. It seems that block is on a scale of 450 (most likely) and if you compare a learned vengeance of +20% to a learned conviction of +90 then they come out equally since 90 is exactly 20% of 450. You are correct though, there is more advantage to a treasure vengeance because there is no treasure conviction.
so if this theory is correct does it mean that a lower level has no chance of blocking a critical hit boosted with a treasure vengeance with conviction up? Interesting... I would like to test this out in the circle. With a low vs high matchup it seems highly unbalanced that the higher level can boost their critical points on already existing gear while the lower level is left scrambling for a card sitting with no base block points if it does have a SMALL chance of blocking.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
laurawatersong wrote:
Them couch potatoes that you have to pay crowns for give treasure conviction. I have tried to do everything, leaving no stone unturned to defeat the legends that I am routinely matched with and I'm simply feeling hopeless when legends routinely critically strike through my conviction bubble. They can one-shot me through my tower shield AND the weakness I cast on them.

I think Professor Greyrose should be rolly polly about this and convince someone in KI to release warlord gear with critical block.


Good call on the couch potatoes... I haven't been keeping up. ;) When it comes to critical, I've noticed that if your block rating is say 2/3 of their critical rating that they rarely score a crit on you that isn't blocked. However, if they cast vengeance with crit gear and you cast conviction, there is simply no way whatsoever that you can get to that magical 2/3 number since your gear doesn't have crit rating. Unfortunately, there are just too many ways that the crit system COULD work that cannot be verified for me to offer any real or solid advice. KI apparently refuses to divulge any actual details on the system, I guess because they fear exploit maybe? I dunno... doesn't make sense to me, but whatever. It is their game after all. If I have any idea jump into my head in the near future, I'll certainly share it. :D

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
travisAk wrote:
so if this theory is correct does it mean that a lower level has no chance of blocking a critical hit boosted with a treasure vengeance with conviction up?


I would say they have a chance, just not a good one. If I were to have been the one to implement the system, it would probably be something like this...

A random number between 1 and 500 is selected. If that number is less than or equal to the attacker's critical rating, its a critical. If that same number is less than or equal to the defender's critical block rating, then it becomes a blocked critical. Now, that's probably too simple since KI has indicated it is a "complicated" calculation. There may be other things that they do to weight factors, etc... The implementation depends on their original idea which obviously none of us have access too.

Defender
Apr 01, 2011
153
OK - so although there was a detail of integers and percentages that wasn't initially correct that we learned about - the fact STILL remains that the lower levels don't have enough of a good chance to block a critical strike via conviction against a legend that is using his crit gear if they cast vengeance.

I think a decision needs be made to either (a) make base critical block available to the lower levels that are routinely being matched with these legends, ie. Commanders and above or (b) cease and desist to match these high ranking low levels to these legends!

I'm going to say this thing again, it's no fun to be in a hopeless scenario within a GAME. This is a game about hopeFUL scenarios, no? Fairies and unicorns and rainbows and so on. So let's not make it a dark alley where big bullies come beat you up when you're not even provided a shield.

Explorer
Mar 27, 2011
58
without being an expert in the games mechanics, a few things:

- the conviction card can be bought in bazaar. I have a few, got them there, and never took the pain to train this spell because i found it of little use.

- possibilities don't work the way you think Laura: it's not about addition and substractions. With vengeance on (treasure) and full legendary gear, your opponent gets about 50% chances of seeing his hit critical. That is once out of two hits on average, and allows for several criticals in a row.

With only conviction on, you get about 20% chance of blocking the critical whenever it arrives. That is one chance out of five (i'm rounding everything, but it gives the idea).

No matter if the number the algorithm calculated before was 1 or 49, he was in the 50%, so it activated.
No matter if the number calculated for you was 21 or 51: you were beyond 20 and got hit in full.

Every time, it's the same. It is not because the previous hit landed that the next will have a lesser chance to.

Statistically, on the long run, percentages would prove true, but still it doesn't mean that in the short term events happen on a regular basis.

So yes, you can get hit critically thrice in a row with conviction on.

And don't hate me for saying this, but i believe that titles are to be earned with power as well as strategy.
So what i find unfair is to have people of levels lower than 50 to get warlord badges, for example.
It's just my opinion, but if one wants the best title he/she must be able to compete with anyone and deserve it in full. If one's power isn't enought o compete, than he must get more powerful before pretending at said title. In the end, we can all get to 60 and an equilibrated gear just playing normally.
I stopped using diego's stuff from lvl 40, didn't even bother buying the captain amulet.

Last note, remember that vengeance works for you as well: maybe if you cast that, instead of conviction, you can fast kill opponent before he kills you.

As a side note, I think KI should consider allowing some unranked matches for people that want to earn arena tickets without changing their status.