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Pet Hatching is NOT random

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Feb 12, 2009
16
Ok, so I know this isn't going to be agreed with, but I would like to hear what other's comments are, and if anyone has actual knowledge of hatching outcomes and what governs pet hatching and training.
I have at it for nearly six months, buying pets from the crown shop, hatching, resetting timers, hatching again, training, mega snack packs, training some more, and am at this to the level of having created an Excel spreadsheet to follow my hatching outcomes. And what I see causes me to really think lowly of this pet stuff.

Myth (level 91 currently), and started with my mythical basilisk, trained it to ancient, got two piggy abilities and mana gift, so I stopped, and eventually hatched it with a friends Trojan Horse. The offspring (Bailey) trained up the only epic talent (piercemonger) from the bassy, and an epic talent from the Horse (unicorn). These were the only epic talents Bailey had.
Bailey was crossed with a Sea Turtle I bought from Crown Shop (the only epic talent a Sea Turtle has is spell-proof). The offspring (Mocha) had all 3 epic talents, so I thought, now to get the ultimate myth pet to cross with, so I bought a Bronze Golem (Boomer) from the crown shop (the BG has 5 epic talents and 5 uncommon). One of these 5 epic talents is the same piercemonger which Bailey and Mocha have, so in the best of all combos, I could hatch a pet with 7 epic talents out of the 10 possible.

I have hatched nearly 25 times to my best estimate, crossing Bailey with Boomer, Mocha with Boomer, original Bassy with Boomer, 2nd generation of this with Boomer again, etc. Every combo possible, multiple times. I have sold back pets while they are still eggs, and only kept those worthy of training, like those with at least 4 of the epic abilities, mostly those with 5 or 6, though I have yet to hatch one with all 7 possible from the parents. Currently I have in my arsenal 9 Bronze Golems not including the crown shop original, and 7 of those have been trained to adult. All 7 of those have trained out piercemonger and myth-giver (uncommon trait for 1-6% myth attack boost). There is nothing random or anything about that, except that it is rotten. One of them should have unicorn, or spell-proof, or myth fuel, or something. Three of them which I took to ancient, now have myth-giver, piercemonger and may cast lifeblade.

Has anyone else hatched upwards of 30 pets, only to essentially end up with the same set of talents each time, even when using different parents? I see people with pets having 5 useable traits (multiple shields, fairy, unicorn and spritely), and I think "how many hatches did they have to do". Nothing seems anything close to random about this.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4117
I have hatched 100's of pets, and no I don't see them all being the same. I have had a few repeats of course, but they all have differences. It's random.

Squire
Sep 07, 2011
595
Pet talents are chance, but not really random. Pets can only get talents that are in their starting pools. Hatched pets get only talents that were in the starting pool of one or both parents. If you want talents like Fairy and Unicorn, you need to hatch with pets that have them. If you are hatching the same pets over and over, you are going to keep getting only slightly different mixes of the same talents because you are limited by the parents genes. Some talents will come up more often from certain pets. That's good if you want them, bad if you don't.

If you train a pet to mega, you unlock 5 of the 10 talents it started with.
If you hatch and train a pet to mega, you unlock 5 of 20 (at most) talents the parents started with. It may be fewer than 20 if the parents had talents in common. You will never get a talent that wasn't in the genes of a parent.

Don't assume that epic talents are better than uncommon or rare. Sprite and Defy are rare, Fairy is uncommon. Many epic slots are unneeded cards, or infrequent may-casts.

Defender
Apr 16, 2014
167
It depends what attributes you are going for while training. If you want incoming healing like unicorn then train and use snacks with attributes for agility and intellect. I have seen some people say will also. But my best luck has been with agility and intellect. I almost always get a healing spell using those attributes. But your chances of getting pip o plenty and an accuracy talent are high also with agility and intellect. And I use the smaller snacks in the beginning that have only those two attributes on them. I don't want to completely fill out those attributes till I do get the healing spell I wanted. I hope this makes sense, as it took me along time to figure out what I was doing wrong with my pet training. A friend in the game actually explained the attribute process and how to figure which ones to go for, for what talents you are trying to get from your pet.

Scarlet shadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEys Level 8

Squire
Sep 07, 2011
595
hopefulz33 on Sep 14, 2014 wrote:
It depends what attributes you are going for while training. If you want incoming healing like unicorn then train and use snacks with attributes for agility and intellect. I have seen some people say will also. But my best luck has been with agility and intellect. I almost always get a healing spell using those attributes. But your chances of getting pip o plenty and an accuracy talent are high also with agility and intellect. And I use the smaller snacks in the beginning that have only those two attributes on them. I don't want to completely fill out those attributes till I do get the healing spell I wanted. I hope this makes sense, as it took me along time to figure out what I was doing wrong with my pet training. A friend in the game actually explained the attribute process and how to figure which ones to go for, for what talents you are trying to get from your pet.

Scarlet shadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEys Level 8
I'm sorry, but that is absolutely false. All talents are set when your pet hatches. How you train or what snacks you use can't change the outcome in any way.

The attributes determine the strength of the talents you have, not what talents you get.

Archon
Oct 24, 2010
4938
Gemma Luna on Sep 15, 2014 wrote:
I'm sorry, but that is absolutely false. All talents are set when your pet hatches. How you train or what snacks you use can't change the outcome in any way.

The attributes determine the strength of the talents you have, not what talents you get.
Correct!

Defender
Apr 16, 2014
167
If it makes absolutely no difference what snacks we feed out pets Gemma Luna then please explain to me why each snack has listed the different attributes it effects

And also, when you are on your pet page and hover your cursor over the attributes, it clearly states what the attribute affects. After hatching a pet you cannot be certain exactly what talents your new pet inherited. And you only get five of those talents. If you want your pet to get a talent for healing, then you have to hope the hatched pet inherited a healing spell talent from one of its parents. But in order for that pet to actually get that talent you have to feed it snacks that are strong in the attributes that affect healing spell talents. In the case of healing talents that would be intellect and agility. Just put your cursor over the attribute and it clearly states those attributes affect incoming healing. So you should feed your pet snacks high in those two attributes. If snacks and attributes make no difference in what talents your pet will actually get while training it then why do you have to choose different games and then choose in the games the attributes you want

Then after that you have to make a choice what snack to feed it Why do we do all this if it makes no difference what snack or what game we choose It's because different attributes affect which kind of talent your pet will acquire after training it.

That is my take on the matter of training pets whether first generation or hatched pets. If I am totally wrong on this then please I would love someone to explain what the attributes do and why the snacks list different attributes on them.

Thanks in Advance

Scarlet shadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEyes Level 8

Delver
Oct 29, 2013
211
hopefulz33 on Sep 15, 2014 wrote:
If it makes absolutely no difference what snacks we feed out pets Gemma Luna then please explain to me why each snack has listed the different attributes it effects

And also, when you are on your pet page and hover your cursor over the attributes, it clearly states what the attribute affects. After hatching a pet you cannot be certain exactly what talents your new pet inherited. And you only get five of those talents. If you want your pet to get a talent for healing, then you have to hope the hatched pet inherited a healing spell talent from one of its parents. But in order for that pet to actually get that talent you have to feed it snacks that are strong in the attributes that affect healing spell talents. In the case of healing talents that would be intellect and agility. Just put your cursor over the attribute and it clearly states those attributes affect incoming healing. So you should feed your pet snacks high in those two attributes. If snacks and attributes make no difference in what talents your pet will actually get while training it then why do you have to choose different games and then choose in the games the attributes you want

Then after that you have to make a choice what snack to feed it Why do we do all this if it makes no difference what snack or what game we choose It's because different attributes affect which kind of talent your pet will acquire after training it.

That is my take on the matter of training pets whether first generation or hatched pets. If I am totally wrong on this then please I would love someone to explain what the attributes do and why the snacks list different attributes on them.

Thanks in Advance

Scarlet shadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEyes Level 8
The attributes impact manifested talents only. The attributes you build up in training, what games you play during training, and what snacks you feed a pet have no impact on which talents are manifested at all.

The max value of an attribute and how much a pet is trained in a particular attribute impacts the strength of manifested talents that have "strengths" measured in a percentage or numerical value. The higher the max value of an attribute and the more a pet is trained up in certain attributes, the "stronger" that manifested talent is. For example, you have a pet with maxes of 200 for all five attributes. That pet manifests Spell Proof. To get the highest percentage of resist from Spell Proof you want to train your pet's strength, agility and power attributes as those are the attributes that increase Spell Proof's "strength." In this example, the highest percentage of resist Spell Proof would provide (once strength, agility and power are all trained to 200) would be around 7 or 8%. If your pet had maxes of 250 for all five attributes and manifested Spell Proof, the highest percentage of resist Spell Proof would provide once strength, agility, and power are all trained to 250 would be 10%.

This is why a lot of folks want to hatch with "max stat" pets, pets with 250 for all five attributes. The provide the maximum strength to manifested talents measured by a percentage of numerical value.

Miranda Nightsinger, Exalted Necromancer
Scarlet Windhammer, Legendary Pyromancer
Iridian Lotusblade, Master Sorcer
Sabrina Boomblossom, Adept Theurgist

Defender
Oct 22, 2012
133
Hi, Hopeful.

What the stats do is control the amount a pet can help on things like resistances, damage, and other items that are numerical. The higher the number is on the attributes that affect the talents the higher the resistance, strength, etc.

The talents it learns as it grows is already set at hatching. So what you do as far as games or what types of snacks doesn't affect that.

Wizard101central has a section that covers a lot of information on pets, talents, and stats.

http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?106-Pet-Guides

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4117
hopefulz33 on Sep 15, 2014 wrote:
If it makes absolutely no difference what snacks we feed out pets Gemma Luna then please explain to me why each snack has listed the different attributes it effects

And also, when you are on your pet page and hover your cursor over the attributes, it clearly states what the attribute affects. After hatching a pet you cannot be certain exactly what talents your new pet inherited. And you only get five of those talents. If you want your pet to get a talent for healing, then you have to hope the hatched pet inherited a healing spell talent from one of its parents. But in order for that pet to actually get that talent you have to feed it snacks that are strong in the attributes that affect healing spell talents. In the case of healing talents that would be intellect and agility. Just put your cursor over the attribute and it clearly states those attributes affect incoming healing. So you should feed your pet snacks high in those two attributes. If snacks and attributes make no difference in what talents your pet will actually get while training it then why do you have to choose different games and then choose in the games the attributes you want

Then after that you have to make a choice what snack to feed it Why do we do all this if it makes no difference what snack or what game we choose It's because different attributes affect which kind of talent your pet will acquire after training it.

That is my take on the matter of training pets whether first generation or hatched pets. If I am totally wrong on this then please I would love someone to explain what the attributes do and why the snacks list different attributes on them.

Thanks in Advance

Scarlet shadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEyes Level 8
Pretty much everything you assumed about pet talents and training is wrong and well documented with testing. Pet talents are determined at hatching and snacks have absolutely no effect on what manifests. This can and has been tested by many people using Test Realm. The pet always manifests the same set of talents no matter what you train and feed it with. Stats only determine the actual bonuses added by the talents that manifest, they have no effect whatsoever on which talents WILL manifest. The reason to use different snacks is to max out the various stats that affect your talents most. If you don't fill up Strength, Agility and Power for example, Spell Proof might only give you +2% resist instead of +10% resist. THAT is why different games and snacks give different attributes.

Defender
Apr 16, 2014
167
I would love to thank you all for the nice reply's and helping me to understand better. I was told differently by a very informed friend of mine in the game. I am still new having only played five months. The pet hatching and training process has always alluded me. I have tried to read about how to train pet and always just became confused. And I still don't know why it is when first start to train a pet if I train attributes agility and intellect that I almost always get a healing or an accuracy spell. I guess just luck or something.

Thanks again for helping me understand.

Scarlet ShadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEyes Level 8

Defender
Oct 22, 2012
133
Pretty much luck on the talents you got. But if both parents have the same talents most of the time it does tend to favor those talents.

Survivor
May 27, 2013
30
how should i hatch a pet for may cast healing spells with myth spells may cast. the best life pet i have seen is eyebenito and sea turtle.

Survivor
Feb 03, 2012
5
I have been playing wizard for about 5 years now. This is the simplest explanation I have seen about pets so far. I've worked and tried to understand the training, feeding and attributes to the point I'm more confused than ever. How I ended up with a few good pets is beyond me LOL Thanks to all those who took time to explain things in laymen terms. To think I have mega snacks by the piles that I wouldn't use because I was afraid they would unlock bad talents. I was told never to train Intellect so I wouldn't use the mega snacks that had a book on them......... I've been told so much wrong info. Thanks again for your post! I would like to add that its really hard to get anyone that has great talents to hatch with you (or I'm in the hatchery at the wrong times) I spent months in there just to get a few very nice folks to hatch with me. I've found a lot of the people with really great pets don't want to share the wealth and I think thats just mean. Above all I think Wizard likes to teach that we should help each other. If you want to be a tough guy then go PVP or compete in the pet derby. I would do anything to help someone else. Well off to use some of those snacks I've been hording.

Defender
Apr 16, 2014
167
So what about first generation pets then? Are the talents you receive from them also predetermined and it make no difference what game you play or what snacks you feed your pets? And why do sites give out the snacks that your pet Love and Like? If feeding your pet any old snack then why bother with lists giving us the name of the snacks our pets Love and Like? I never understood when people tell me it makes no difference if you feed your pets snacks they Love or Like or not. So whats up with that?

And by the time my pet is ancient all the attributes are filled in most cases. So no room to add more percent to talents that can increase in percentages as you train.

Like I said, I have read and been told countless different things and not much of it makes any sense to me. All I do know that since I have been careful with what I feed my pets paying attention to the different attributes, I have had so much more better luck getting the talents I want for my pet.

Scarlet ShadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEyes Level 8

Survivor
May 28, 2014
38
I never have piles of gold, so am not able to hatch with others unless it is a very specific thing i am trying for. Maybe as i get higher level i will end up with lots of gold.

Hero
Sep 19, 2013
770
hopefulz33 on Sep 18, 2014 wrote:
So what about first generation pets then? Are the talents you receive from them also predetermined and it make no difference what game you play or what snacks you feed your pets? And why do sites give out the snacks that your pet Love and Like? If feeding your pet any old snack then why bother with lists giving us the name of the snacks our pets Love and Like? I never understood when people tell me it makes no difference if you feed your pets snacks they Love or Like or not. So whats up with that?

And by the time my pet is ancient all the attributes are filled in most cases. So no room to add more percent to talents that can increase in percentages as you train.

Like I said, I have read and been told countless different things and not much of it makes any sense to me. All I do know that since I have been careful with what I feed my pets paying attention to the different attributes, I have had so much more better luck getting the talents I want for my pet.

Scarlet ShadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEyes Level 8
When a pet is generated by a purchase or a drop, the game chooses 5 random talents that it will manifest and the levels at which it will manifest them. So yes, first generation pets also have predetermined talents. Liked and Loved snacks will give an extra +1 or +2 boost to power when fed to a pet, respectively. They do not affect manifested talents. No amount of feeding it this or training it that will increase or decrease your chances of getting a good talent, because they are predetermined. To further dispel that superstition, good and bad talents vary between players (i.e. someone might want a lot of damage, others might want resist and heals, a derby pet would do well with selfish talents, etc), so the game would be incapable of determining which talent you wanted without reading your mind, which is currently impossible without some special hardware.

Defender
Oct 22, 2012
133
This is going to be a long post. But hopefully help out some of the new to pets folks reading this.

Hopeful, most first generation pets have some "selfish" talents. Probably not a good choice to go past adult. Then try to get a hatch with a pet with the talents you want. They are also determined before you ever start training. Sites give out the information on what the pets like since you can buy different snacks and if the pet likes or loves it gets an extra boost of 1 or 2. Just helps some on training. If you are at the bazaar and have a choice of same level snacks for the same gold , but your pet likes or loves one. The better choice normally is the one it loves.

Amber, some things to do to help your chances of finding some one to hatch with. Inside the hatchery most people are already either going to hatch with someone else or do a self hatch. So you might not have luck there unless they have another wizard with a open timer and gold. They probably aren't being mean. Some other places to ask is out in the pavilion it self, in the commons or out in different worlds. If you see a pet you like talk to them about it. I have done some hatches for people like that.

Also be nice. I have had people come up to me and just say "hatch with me". When I tell them I'm waiting on someone they get upset and say stupid stuff. Other people hear that and at that point already decided not to hatch with them.

Next tip. Read up on some of the guides on the web before you get burnt out just hatching because you can. Figure out what you want in talents. If you want to max stats a pet. (Get all 250's on the stats) Take your time.

Last tip. Best place though is either request a hatch here or over at wizard101 central. A lot of people would be happy to help.

Hero
Feb 26, 2012
717
There are several really excellent resources for folks who want to understand hatching.

One is on the Duelist101 website, here: http://www.duelist101.com/community/thepetguide/wizard101-pet-talents/

Another, also from Duelist101: http://www.duelist101.com/other-w101-guides/w101-pet-guides/perfect-pvp-pets-part-1/

Another is on the Wizard101 wiki, here: http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Basic:Hatching_Pets

These guides help you understand what it takes to get really good pets with traits you want. They don't make it easy, but they do explain how to go about hatching to get the traits you want, and what it takes to accomplish that. It is a long process that takes patience and resources, but others have taken the time to figure out and explain the process well, for those who want the information.

If you really want to get good pets, I recommend reading one or more of these guides. I also recommend reading Seethe's posts on Couch Potatoes and Evil Magma peas in the Gardening section, and learning how to set up a high-yield mega snack garden, so you have ongoing resources to supply your pet training needs.

Defender
Apr 16, 2014
167
Great thread!

Thanks to Robobot Dune Finnagainwindrider for taking the time to make such excellent posts about pet training and hatching. Maybe reading the guides will make much more sense to me now.

I do wish that the talents were not predetermined and there was a way to train your pets to help attain talents you would like your pet to have. The endless hatching is expensive and tedious. Since reaching exalted on my Wizard I have been taking the time and interest in trying to have a good pet now. I have managed to get five pets to mega in the last week by using all the snacks I have saved all these months from my gardens. Gardening really paid off for me. I am trying to make decent pets for my and wizards also.

Scarlet ShadowStone Exalted
Scarlet SwiftRiver Level 23
Scarlet FireEyes Level 10

Survivor
Feb 12, 2009
16
Yeah, there is a lot of misunderstood info about hatching out there. And a lot which is unknown. I'm glad this info gets out there in little bits along the way. That's the way this game is supposed to work, I think. But back to my original post ... I know the abilities are set for first gen pets, and can be looked up. Hatches will be a random assortment of the 10 abilities from each parent. And assuming that a talent, if held by both parents, will not be doubled up in the offspring, then there is a reasonable assumption of which talents the offspring has. Some will be known by process of elimination, even without training.

My goal is that I am trying to get the myth fuel trait from the Bronze Golem, and myth dealer from my Mythical Basilisk, along with some form of heal, either unicorn or spell-proof. It is with 100% certainty that the crosses I have done up to this point have generated a pet with all of those talents in its arsenal of 10. I have four bronze golem adult/ancient pets which I use for parents. I know what 5-7 talents are for each of them. When I cross them together, some of the talents are the same, so I am assuming that those talents are not going to be doubled in the 10 talents the offspring has possible. So for each hatch I do, I know what 7, or 8 (in one case) of the 10 talents are, without them being trained out.

So, if you count the hatched pets which I have bothered to train, I at one point had nine Bronze Golems that ALL had myth-giver (the lame form of myth fist, compared to myth dealer, which the pet also has in the ten talents) and piercemonger. That means that I hatched somewhere around 30 pets since getting the parents I needed, and the nine offspring which I have trained, from various combinations of these 4 parents, with a variety of 10 talents, have ALL manifested the same talents when reaching adult.

Even if the same two parents generated the same hatch, it shouldn't manifest the same talents, time after time. That's not random.

Survivor
Mar 11, 2013
1
May not relate to this but how do i get the pet from level 58 myth after earning Medusa?

Mycin Tunderflame level 58

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4117
Stephen Wildshade on Sep 21, 2014 wrote:
Yeah, there is a lot of misunderstood info about hatching out there. And a lot which is unknown. I'm glad this info gets out there in little bits along the way. That's the way this game is supposed to work, I think. But back to my original post ... I know the abilities are set for first gen pets, and can be looked up. Hatches will be a random assortment of the 10 abilities from each parent. And assuming that a talent, if held by both parents, will not be doubled up in the offspring, then there is a reasonable assumption of which talents the offspring has. Some will be known by process of elimination, even without training.

My goal is that I am trying to get the myth fuel trait from the Bronze Golem, and myth dealer from my Mythical Basilisk, along with some form of heal, either unicorn or spell-proof. It is with 100% certainty that the crosses I have done up to this point have generated a pet with all of those talents in its arsenal of 10. I have four bronze golem adult/ancient pets which I use for parents. I know what 5-7 talents are for each of them. When I cross them together, some of the talents are the same, so I am assuming that those talents are not going to be doubled in the 10 talents the offspring has possible. So for each hatch I do, I know what 7, or 8 (in one case) of the 10 talents are, without them being trained out.

So, if you count the hatched pets which I have bothered to train, I at one point had nine Bronze Golems that ALL had myth-giver (the lame form of myth fist, compared to myth dealer, which the pet also has in the ten talents) and piercemonger. That means that I hatched somewhere around 30 pets since getting the parents I needed, and the nine offspring which I have trained, from various combinations of these 4 parents, with a variety of 10 talents, have ALL manifested the same talents when reaching adult.

Even if the same two parents generated the same hatch, it shouldn't manifest the same talents, time after time. That's not random.
All possible talents should be known by process of elimination. Talents always appear in the same order and cannot be doubled. There's some situations where you might not know which talent a couple are purely because there's a couple of the same rank in that order and you have only one. But you still know all the possible talents of the pet. Some talents are also more common/likely, most hatchers call them sticky. The fact is it's still random just like drops, some things are more common, some more rare.

Geographer
Oct 09, 2011
953
Mycin tunderflame on Oct 3, 2014 wrote:
May not relate to this but how do i get the pet from level 58 myth after earning Medusa?

Mycin Tunderflame level 58
You need to have completed the quest Nordrilund Exposure in Wintertusk in order to get the pet quest.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
953
One thing that I have noticed, is that if a pet has a group of three or four talents
all together, they often are transferred to the offspring in that same order.
So, the entire group will transfer to the new pet, and you can be sure of what you have.

So when I am hatching, and two of the talents that I want are in a group of three or
four, I will use that pet, along with a different pet that has a grouping. If you can
find patterns in pets like this, it can often accelerate the process of getting what you
want in the final pet.

I also find it's easier to get someone to hatch with you, if you have a pet they want.
So, if you want someone with Myth Talents to hatch with you, start with a pet that
most Myth want, etc.

I have hatched hundreds, I know more than 600 pets, and I would say that
75 percent or more are discarded. Of that 25 percent, they are re-hatched and
then discarded. I have six pets that are close to what I want, two being almost perfect.

The problem is, the game changes, and the talents are always in flux, so now I
am hatching again, trying to get a better pet. It can be a never ending process,
once you get into it, that's why you need a solid set of gardens for mega snacks.

One thing that most do, is build as many megs snacks that you can, and them bring
up your pets in the Test realm. Then you know exactly which pets you want to
bring up in the regular game. The rest that turned out with Talents you don't want,
can be discarded and you don't waste Mega's on them.

1