This isn't going to be the post some probably expect--I'm not going to complain about menu chat people and how they shouldn't be in dungeons. On the contrary, they pay to play the game too. Just as much as I do, and they have a right to be able to finish a quest arc. Like Wintertusk. First let me say that I always try to help menu chatters if they're polite (i.e., say please and thanks for the help). I feel that a lot of people won't help them, and that's not fair. Ok, that said--this was my experience tonight. I was asked to help a kid in Nastrond. Now I have this quest too, but I was waiting till I found some experienced people to go in with. But ok, I thought, I can try to help. We go in, me and three menu chatters. After about the third battle, two of them bail, leaving me and the original quester/friend. Then, he gets another guy who has text chat. This guy was game up until...yes, you guessed it, the four brothers who cheat. Leaving just me and my friend the menu chat guy. At the very end. We had done this dungeon for two hours--maybe more--and had to quit at the end because I couldn't explain to him the "he's it/he's not it" thing. And this kid--throughout the whole thing, he kept saying "we can do this." I loved his attitude, so I had to try. But of course he/we COULDN'T do it. Because we couldn't talk about the cheating and how to get around it. So we had to bail. Now I can do Nastrond again--but this guy, with his cool attitude and polite gratitude at appropriate times--can't. Ever. I know people won't agree, but I think that cheating bosses should only be in optional places, like Waterworks, or the Warehouse, or Briskbreeze. Not at the end of a storyline that someone has worked really hard to get through. I've done WT, and I know how hard it is. And it's not fair that menu chatters can't finish it. I hope KI will consider that menu chatters pay to play too, and they should be allowed to finish a storyline.
I did the Helephant tower on test last night with a menu chat wizard. I was concerned when he joined at first because of the cheats in the first battle, but this kid did great. If anyone has done this tower they know what I mean. I'm sorry he had to leave group half way through. However, I think they need to add stuff to the menu chat for cheating battles. Things like "do you know the cheats here?" and "no blades", "no traps" , "no single hit" etc. I realize that KI wants us to find out the cheats on our own, but just having phrases in the menu would not spoil anything. It becomes a problem when the "cheat" hits everyone if you don't follow the rules. However, I've had open chat friends that could not follow the rules either :)
I realize that KI wants us to find out the cheats on our own,
Well KI needs to get a clue about their so called spoilers.
The solutions are all over the net anyway and they aren't doing any of the menu chat only players any favors by not providing instructions for how to deal with the cheating bosses.
I actually do agree. Just because someone has menu chat doesn't mean they don't know the game as well as the text or open chatters. In fact, I'm really meant to have menu chat (Because I'm younger than 13), but I got text chat when my main life wizard, Caroline Sunbright was level 3 because my parents trust me with it (I don't abuse it or do anything bad). But even if I did still have menu chat, I would probably know the bosses just as well. I even like to try the ones that aren't too hard with minions :-) (But I only do that with bosses I know well enough).
Caroline Sunbright legendary theurgist Brittany Rainriver legendary diviner Emily Spiritriver legendary necromancer Laura Iceheart legendary thaumaturge Nicole Jadesword legendary sorcerer Alexandra Redleaf level 59 fire
I did the Helephant tower on test last night with a menu chat wizard. I was concerned when he joined at first because of the cheats in the first battle, but this kid did great. If anyone has done this tower they know what I mean. I'm sorry he had to leave group half way through. However, I think they need to add stuff to the menu chat for cheating battles. Things like "do you know the cheats here?" and "no blades", "no traps" , "no single hit" etc. I realize that KI wants us to find out the cheats on our own, but just having phrases in the menu would not spoil anything. It becomes a problem when the "cheat" hits everyone if you don't follow the rules. However, I've had open chat friends that could not follow the rules either :)
I agree... KI needs to add these kind of battle/cheats wording to the menu chat. It's not fair to the menu chatters, or those they battle with.
I actually do agree. Just because someone has menu chat doesn't mean they don't know the game as well as the text or open chatters. In fact, I'm really meant to have menu chat (Because I'm younger than 13), but I got text chat when my main life wizard, Caroline Sunbright was level 3 because my parents trust me with it (I don't abuse it or do anything bad). But even if I did still have menu chat, I would probably know the bosses just as well. I even like to try the ones that aren't too hard with minions (But I only do that with bosses I know well enough).
First, I think it's great that you and other current or former menu chatters can handle cheating bosses. But that's a single instance. Games have to be developed for large populations, not unique individuals. Your personal experience, while admirable, doesn't address the larger problem. This person I was playing with was a good player. He just had no idea what to expect on that last level. You aren't told when you go in--as you are in most "cheating towers" that there will be cheating, for one thing. I knew it, but I just hoped he had read up on the dungeon before doing it. He hadn't, and it was a miserable, disappointing experience for both of us to have to quit at that last level. I got choked up when I had to send those last two messages to him: "I have to flee," and "sorry." To both he replied simply, "Ok." That little exchange was hard. I do like the idea that the menu chat can be changed to account for these instances, though. In any case, I stand by my larger point. Nastrond is the endgame for Wintertusk. Anyone who goes through an entire world should have the tools s/he needs to complete it. Including menu chatters. Things shouldn't end the way they did for this nice kid.
This is a good post. I agree that KI needs to add such to Menu Chat or at least "Did you read how to fight these Cheaters?" in Menu chat. If they are going to put such instances in the main quest line, then possibly add a link to the cheats explained ? It takes quite a bit of explaination to our 7 yr old grandson, in the same room, to get him through such instances.
This isn't going to be the post some probably expect--I'm not going to complain about menu chat people and how they shouldn't be in dungeons. On the contrary, they pay to play the game too. Just as much as I do, and they have a right to be able to finish a quest arc. Like Wintertusk. First let me say that I always try to help menu chatters if they're polite (i.e., say please and thanks for the help). I feel that a lot of people won't help them, and that's not fair. Ok, that said--this was my experience tonight. I was asked to help a kid in Nastrond. Now I have this quest too, but I was waiting till I found some experienced people to go in with. But ok, I thought, I can try to help. We go in, me and three menu chatters. After about the third battle, two of them bail, leaving me and the original quester/friend. Then, he gets another guy who has text chat. This guy was game up until...yes, you guessed it, the four brothers who cheat. Leaving just me and my friend the menu chat guy. At the very end. We had done this dungeon for two hours--maybe more--and had to quit at the end because I couldn't explain to him the "he's it/he's not it" thing. And this kid--throughout the whole thing, he kept saying "we can do this." I loved his attitude, so I had to try. But of course he/we COULDN'T do it. Because we couldn't talk about the cheating and how to get around it. So we had to bail. Now I can do Nastrond again--but this guy, with his cool attitude and polite gratitude at appropriate times--can't. Ever. I know people won't agree, but I think that cheating bosses should only be in optional places, like Waterworks, or the Warehouse, or Briskbreeze. Not at the end of a storyline that someone has worked really hard to get through. I've done WT, and I know how hard it is. And it's not fair that menu chatters can't finish it. I hope KI will consider that menu chatters pay to play too, and they should be allowed to finish a storyline.
Well, remember, WT isn't on the main storyline that leads you through the spiral. So, actually, WT is kind of optional. I'm in CL and haven't even started WT yet. I probably should, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. But my point is that WT is optional.
I did the Helephant tower on test last night with a menu chat wizard. I was concerned when he joined at first because of the cheats in the first battle, but this kid did great. If anyone has done this tower they know what I mean. I'm sorry he had to leave group half way through. However, I think they need to add stuff to the menu chat for cheating battles. Things like "do you know the cheats here?" and "no blades", "no traps" , "no single hit" etc. I realize that KI wants us to find out the cheats on our own, but just having phrases in the menu would not spoil anything. It becomes a problem when the "cheat" hits everyone if you don't follow the rules. However, I've had open chat friends that could not follow the rules either :)
I agree. It would be nice to have these phrases so that if a boss cheats, EVERYONE can know that it does. That way someone could say "Does this boss cheat?" the other guy could say "Yes." then "No blades."
Well, remember, WT isn't on the main storyline that leads you through the spiral. So, actually, WT is kind of optional. I'm in CL and haven't even started WT yet. I probably should, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. But my point is that WT is optional.
Do you really think that this undermines my point? If we're going to consider WT (and GH, for that matter) "optional" in the way you mean, then WT should come with a caveat: "Menu chatters should not attempt this world because they won't be able to finish it." Again, they pay to play as you and I do. They should have access to every storyline. Waterworks and Briskbreeze are optional. Everyone knows that they are "cheating towers." Storylines should not have cheaters unless, as many here have (wisely) suggested, the menu chat is altered to allow for adequate communication among all players. I just can't see any other fair alternative. (And besides, WT is an awesome world--my very favorite so far. Everyone should get to play it.)
I do agree with your post and do think (actually this was suggested on a past post, i forget by who- sorry!) that these dungeons should have like a different set of menu chat options once you enter them. i did help a fire mage through nastrond with menu chat -just us 2- and he either knew what he was doing, or he understood when i said to use fire universal attacks (the last symbol on the menu list that looks like a spiral) for the final battle, because he kept using fire dragon from that point on and we did win. to suggest that the person you helped will NEVER beat the dungeon may be a bit exaggerated, because younger people can generally learn faster than us less-young people. once again, though, it is a very good point you make. -elijah darkthorn, legendary conjurer
I did the Helephant tower on test last night with a menu chat wizard. I was concerned when he joined at first because of the cheats in the first battle, but this kid did great. If anyone has done this tower they know what I mean. I'm sorry he had to leave group half way through. However, I think they need to add stuff to the menu chat for cheating battles. Things like "do you know the cheats here?" and "no blades", "no traps" , "no single hit" etc. I realize that KI wants us to find out the cheats on our own, but just having phrases in the menu would not spoil anything. It becomes a problem when the "cheat" hits everyone if you don't follow the rules. However, I've had open chat friends that could not follow the rules either :)
I agree. It would be nice to have these phrases so that if a boss cheats, EVERYONE can know that it does. That way someone could say "Does this boss cheat?" the other guy could say "Yes." then "No blades."
Yes I do agree on that. I had a friendly menu chatter friend who was my bestie but then my sis deleted her I was really hurt and my sister got in trouble, but my other bestie, Kelsey said she knew a girl that used to have menu chat and talked about me ALL the time! I really do like menu chatters, they're helpful and are nice at times :) well I gotta go to bed.
Cya!
Taylor Daisystone Level 59 Pyromancer "Peace, love, and fire! "
@etherchaos/elijah: You are right of course. It may be that my friend went over the evening's events, figured out what the likely problem was, and went back to do major damage. :-) I think I was just feeling morose about the whole thing--but kids do learn fast. (My own constantly amazes me this way). I still hope that KI will consider doing something about this, though. Thanks to everyone who read and posted. Hopefully we got their attention, and they are coming up with new dungeon chat options even as I type this! :D
I was really hurt and my sister got in trouble, but my other bestie, Kelsey said she knew a girl that used to have menu chat and talked about me ALL the time! I really do like menu chatters, they're helpful and are nice at times :) well I gotta go to bed. 
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