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Wraith + Gargantuan is only 650 not 725

2
AuthorMessage
Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
IsaacDragona wrote:
darthjt wrote:
IsaacDragona wrote:
darthjt wrote:
IsaacDragona wrote:
I agree that only a 75 damage loss for wraith and scarecrow isnt much to complain about, but on the other hand is 75 really worth not adding? I mean really, do you honestly think that when hit by a wraith 75 damage is going to matter? Wraith hits 7000+ when fully powered, which not even an ice wizards health can stand to. So the "75 isnt much to comaplain about" arguement works both ways, be cause 75 also isnt enough to bother not adding. My vote is they should just add the extra 75 because it isnt fair to death. And "Drains are more powerful than normal damage spells"? HA! Tell that to a leviathan!


Leviathan can't heal you like wraith can... Wraith is also a 6 pip spell, compared to Storm's 8 pip Leviathan... Not sure what point you are getting to...

Skeletal Dragon can be more potent than Leviathan can be, considering it is a DOT attack, shredding shields... Where as Leviathan is minimized by just one shield...

Point of this post is, that the full use of Gargantuan is not added to drain spells... Some of the damage is added to the attack, where as the rest will be given to the heal, so it is quite fair...


The point isnt for skeletal dragon, I already know the immesne power of it. When critical it can hit 2000 per round. This is about wraith and scarecrow, which can also be ruined by a single shield. There are death shields and tower shields that cant be gotten around. In my opinion absorb shield aren't worth the pip cost when you can spend 0 pips on a -80% shield or two -70% shields. I agree the healing is a bonus, but in a 1v1 match (what most people do to raise thair pvp rank) the healing wont matter if the wraith 1 hit kills, which it usually does.

It doesnt have to be just a leviathan either, triton is also a very potent spell for the same pip cost as wraith. And when powered with gargantuan is 1100 max damage, only 100 under what leviathan can do. You seem to be over looking the main point of my post though, and that is that 75 damage is not a lot of damage and that there is no reason to take it out. To quote myself "I agree that only a 75 damage loss for wraith and scarecrow isnt much to complain about, but on the other hand is 75 really worth not adding? I mean really, do you honestly think that when hit by a wraith 75 damage is going to matter? Wraith hits 7000+ when fully powered, which not even an ice wizards health can stand to."


You want the full addition to Gargantuan, use Skeletal Pirate, which is only a 5 pip spell, which will actually do more damage than Wraith will, for 1 less pip... It does not heal, so it can do the exact same thing as you are talking about with Triton and Leviathan... It does not heal...

Now, this is not the End of the Game, I am sure Death will eventually get a powerful 1 hit attack again, without heals and without DOT, however, you might be happy about those DOT attacks, storm does not get them and everyone loves to spam those storm shields...

Now, I know what damage Wraith can do, so, save yourself the trouble and just use Skeletal Pirate instead of complaining about Wraith healing and the full use of Gargantuan does not go to attack because the spell also heals...

How unfair do you want to make it?


I agree with you about the pirate, and I actually do use my pirate. However, I dont see that adding an extra measly 75 damage to wraith is going to make it unfair. I'm actually not complaining, I don't care either way because I don't think 75 less damage matters. I'm simply pointing out a valid counter argument to what KI has said is the reason for not adding the full gargantuan benefit. They say it makes it too powerful, but its only a 75 point difference. I understand why its only 75, any more and it would make it unfair to death. But in hindsight 75 damage is such a low amount to take away that it wont make much of a difference. So taking away 75 damage from wraith in essence was completely pointless. Ergo: there is no reason why they shouldn't put the 75 damage back.


It is in the mathematical equation... You may not understand this, but they use math when making spells and equations on ratios... I am not going to teach you math to help you understand how it works, but, if you don't do the math, then why not make all spells instantly kill? I mean, it would only be fair, right? it is only a minor difference...

No, actually, that 75 points, when you take away damage boosts, death blade, spirit blade, and any other boosts, with feints and traps, adds up to quite a bit... Ergo, it's in the math...

Mastermind
Jun 10, 2011
371
darthjt wrote:
IsaacDragona wrote:
I agree that only a 75 damage loss for wraith and scarecrow isnt much to complain about, but on the other hand is 75 really worth not adding? I mean really, do you honestly think that when hit by a wraith 75 damage is going to matter? Wraith hits 7000+ when fully powered, which not even an ice wizards health can stand to. So the "75 isnt much to comaplain about" arguement works both ways, be cause 75 also isnt enough to bother not adding. My vote is they should just add the extra 75 because it isnt fair to death. And "Drains are more powerful than normal damage spells"? HA! Tell that to a leviathan!


Leviathan can't heal you like wraith can... Wraith is also a 6 pip spell, compared to Storm's 8 pip Leviathan... Not sure what point you are getting to...

Skeletal Dragon can be more potent than Leviathan can be, considering it is a DOT attack, shredding shields... Where as Leviathan is minimized by just one shield...

Point of this post is, that the full use of Gargantuan is not added to drain spells... Some of the damage is added to the attack, where as the rest will be given to the heal, so it is quite fair...

I have to aurgue with you about the DoT spells being better. You need to stock up on power, MAKE SURE there is no shield, and use it. Seeng it is only one attack, It does more damage with traps and makes them effective. DoT's need traps every round so if you dont have a trap, it only does the set blade, boost, critical, and/or start amplify. But if you use an attack once spell, it is better used with traps. I think there is a boss in stormriven in CL who gets board if you use the same school over again. So you really dont need DoT because he will cheat. And most of CL wont shield to ther weakness so a single attack in effective unless of course you go up against an ice which most high level ices seem to just non-stop spam tower shields.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
stormschool99 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
IsaacDragona wrote:
I agree that only a 75 damage loss for wraith and scarecrow isnt much to complain about, but on the other hand is 75 really worth not adding? I mean really, do you honestly think that when hit by a wraith 75 damage is going to matter? Wraith hits 7000+ when fully powered, which not even an ice wizards health can stand to. So the "75 isnt much to comaplain about" arguement works both ways, be cause 75 also isnt enough to bother not adding. My vote is they should just add the extra 75 because it isnt fair to death. And "Drains are more powerful than normal damage spells"? HA! Tell that to a leviathan!


Leviathan can't heal you like wraith can... Wraith is also a 6 pip spell, compared to Storm's 8 pip Leviathan... Not sure what point you are getting to...

Skeletal Dragon can be more potent than Leviathan can be, considering it is a DOT attack, shredding shields... Where as Leviathan is minimized by just one shield...

Point of this post is, that the full use of Gargantuan is not added to drain spells... Some of the damage is added to the attack, where as the rest will be given to the heal, so it is quite fair...

I have to aurgue with you about the DoT spells being better. You need to stock up on power, MAKE SURE there is no shield, and use it. Seeng it is only one attack, It does more damage with traps and makes them effective. DoT's need traps every round so if you dont have a trap, it only does the set blade, boost, critical, and/or start amplify. But if you use an attack once spell, it is better used with traps. I think there is a boss in stormriven in CL who gets board if you use the same school over again. So you really dont need DoT because he will cheat. And most of CL wont shield to ther weakness so a single attack in effective unless of course you go up against an ice which most high level ices seem to just non-stop spam tower shields.


And your point is?

Squire
Aug 12, 2009
593
Drains are TRULY more portent because they HEAL YOU. Wraith's normal is 500. Gargantuan is a boost of 225 total. By boosting the Damage by 2/3, it can take half of the boost and apply it properly to the Healing aspect. So 75 + 75 = 150 + 75 = 225.

Standard healing spells cannot be Boosted by the Damage Enchantments. If they could, I'm sure life would be using 1085 point Satyrs without Healing In/Out gear boost. Face the facts that Drain Spells, because of the Healing are more potent than Damage spells. Drain Spells also avoid Absorbs like Spirit Armor, Rebirth, Ice Armor, and Frozen Armor.

Even if they did allow people to use Damage Enchantments to boost the Healing Spells, Drain Spells should NOT get the 'Full' Boost to damage because 1/2 of the Damage Boost should be given to the Heal no matter what.

End of story: Drain Spells are stronger than Damage spells, as Professor Greyrose stated. We have explained calmly and rationally why the Boost is applied the way it is. If you don't like it, tough luck, go play a different school of Wizard.

Defender
Sep 29, 2008
148
id say give the 75 cause on my death people have been barely living with the amount of health left and if every other school gets the extra damgage give it to death too death cant really heal any other way cause they use their field to lock down healers so it is a part of their combos and as far as using pirate goes the minus 1 pip thing doesnt count for perfect pip deaths the would cast it for 6 just like wraith so why not just give them the extra anyway and while your at it give storm a burn so they dont have to put up with shield spammers.
additionally storm can hit for over 500 over 2 shields one being a 70 another a 50 so how can KI cry broken if storm is too as well as fir having its minus 90 efreet which going first almost garuenees them a win.

Delver
Mar 13, 2011
278
DietyOfWind wrote:
...death cant really heal any other way cause they use their field to lock down healers so it is a part of their combos...


They can pick life as their second school. And don't they get a self-only Pixie like everyone else?

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
DietyOfWind wrote:
id say give the 75 cause on my death people have been barely living with the amount of health left and if every other school gets the extra damgage give it to death too death cant really heal any other way cause they use their field to lock down healers so it is a part of their combos and as far as using pirate goes the minus 1 pip thing doesnt count for perfect pip deaths the would cast it for 6 just like wraith so why not just give them the extra anyway and while your at it give storm a burn so they dont have to put up with shield spammers.
additionally storm can hit for over 500 over 2 shields one being a 70 another a 50 so how can KI cry broken if storm is too as well as fir having its minus 90 efreet which going first almost garuenees them a win.


Death has more ways to heal than most schools... Death can heal by attacks!
Deaths attacks heal more than any of fires...

Death can heal using sacrifice, a better heal than any of Balances...

Death gets pixie as any other school does...

Death may not be quite as powerful as storm, but it has a lot more health and more ways to recover health... Death also has a much better power pip chance... And yet, at level 70, still has 70% damage boost...


Squire
Aug 12, 2009
593
HooVooLoo wrote:
DietyOfWind wrote:
...death cant really heal any other way cause they use their field to lock down healers so it is a part of their combos...


They can pick life as their second school. And don't they get a self-only Pixie like everyone else?

not only does death get the 'Self-only' Pixie spell, they also at the end of Wizard City get the 3-pip 'Sacrifice' Spell which deals damage to the caster to heal target ally. Combos of Death Shields and sacrifice are minimal hurt maximum heal. You can even use Sacrifice if you are under 100 damage to kill and revive yourself with the full 700 health.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
Regarding the relative power of Death, you can certainly do the math. Or you can live the difference, as I have. I have two legends, Myth and Death. After struggling through WT and CL with my Myth, using a life henchman for powerful bosses, etc., playing Death has been a soloist's dream. Even those Water-Matons in the Science Center, with their constant death-shielding, haven't stopped me--sun- and blade-boosted Poison or Dragon deals with them quite nicely. Death has enough power. I am not missing those few extra damage points at all. In fact, although I haven't played every school, I strongly suspect that Death is the most powerful, overall, in the game.

Tabitha

Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
Sojourna wrote:
Okay please forgive me but i am not sure i understand.

Why is the damage caused by steal more powerful than others?

I use a wraith card and its 500 unbuffed by gear or charms it hits at 500.

aside from the healing part its not any more damaging than any other spells and its our highest spell (I am not addressing the steal factor or i would say scarecrow) Its funny because i am not sure you but i think the pet spells are higher in the case of scarecrow.

Come just admit it this was a total move for the purpose of pvp. I cant imagine the MOBs or Bosses are complaining. But why not just say so?

You know I dont think you all give us enough credit. While this is a family game, we are not all kids. Just say rather than have to deal with pvp people screaming fowl you thought you would meet them half way.

Or maybe its a programming problem like fient had, whatever the problem is, explained nothing.

I mean really "Drain spells are more powerful than standard damage spells" - oh yea how so?

Its okay to make any decision you want just be upfront with it and allow me to decided if i want to continue the ride.

Dont wait till I have already invested time and money expecting one thing and then learn later its not really what you said it was.

So tell me is balance also suffering? Does powerball have the same boost limits as it has the same problem has the update affects them too?
I will check but i dont think it does.

So the real question that is being asked is the first one: Why isnt Gargantuan giving death the right boosts? Because honestly, and with all due respect that answer given, makes no real sense.

We deserve a better explanation.

I think what she means is that, well ok, put it this way. You have a wraith and a gargantuan treasure card. You use it on the wraith (+250) and the card now reads 750 damage. Plus, that's an extra 125 gain in healing also. So they made it less effective cause if you got 375 boost it is unfair to other schools.

Defender
Feb 23, 2010
163
Why is anyone complaining? Until recently, you couldn't boost draining spells at all. Now that they've changed that (and I'm so glad they did, given the boosted health of the higher level enemies), people are complaining because they can only get the boost you'd get from monstrous. I'd much rather have a monstrous level boost than no boost at all. Look at it this way. Other schools get a 250 point base damage boost from Gargantuan. Death Wizards get a 175 point damage boost to Wraith, Scarecrow, etc. and an 87 base healing boost. So, less damage dealt to the enemy, but when you add the health boost, Necromancers get a greater total change in battle conditions (the health of the player and the enemy). That's nothing to complain about. If KI made any mistakes, it was simply in wording. It's not that the damage done by wraith is worse, it's that the total change in battle conditions is greater because it heals the necromancer at the cost of the enemy.

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