Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Strong + Wraith bug

AuthorMessage
Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
When I add Strong (sun school, +100 to one spell) to Wraith, in a fight with Gothric Honorbound, I'm showing Wraith now gold, and doing 567 instead of 600. Of course, during the fight, I also saw another Strong Wraith in my hand. I'm only carrying one of each of these, so something is up here. My deck includes the following spells:

1 Strong
1 Sprite
1 Wraith
1 Vampire
1 Death Blade
1 Spirit Blade
1 Reshuffle
1 Death Prism
1 Dark Pact (item card)
5 Major Torment (wand spell)

I have no other cards loaded. Some help would be appreciated. Bug happened right around 8:15-8:20PM EST

Explorer
Jan 15, 2012
91
dayerider on Apr 24, 2013 wrote:
When I add Strong (sun school, +100 to one spell) to Wraith, in a fight with Gothric Honorbound, I'm showing Wraith now gold, and doing 567 instead of 600. Of course, during the fight, I also saw another Strong Wraith in my hand. I'm only carrying one of each of these, so something is up here. My deck includes the following spells:

1 Strong
1 Sprite
1 Wraith
1 Vampire
1 Death Blade
1 Spirit Blade
1 Reshuffle
1 Death Prism
1 Dark Pact (item card)
5 Major Torment (wand spell)

I have no other cards loaded. Some help would be appreciated. Bug happened right around 8:15-8:20PM EST
I trained Wraith through Training points too,
and when i had the treasure card strong, it only did that much too.
I didn't exactly know what was wrong, but I played along with it as i thought
I was the only one who had this bug.
KI please explain yourselves!
Valkoor GoldSong lvl 79 myth

Archon
Oct 24, 2010
4952
This is not a bug nor does anything need to be "explained" by KI.
Look here:

http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Wraith

Death spells where life is drained/returned + strong does not equal the same as a normal spell.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Mathematics people... When using damage and getting 1/2 back health spells, Damage boosts gain 2/3 damage and 1/3 health. Please evaluate and see that this is how it is intended as to not overpower drain spells. It's real simple and nothing to complain about.

DarthJT

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
RavenLady777 on Apr 24, 2013 wrote:
This is not a bug nor does anything need to be "explained" by KI.
Look here:

http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Wraith

Death spells where life is drained/returned + strong does not equal the same as a normal spell.
that's doesnt seem like a bug to you tho? The treasure card is supposed to add 100 points to a single spell. it doesnt say anything about "Add 100 to any one spell, except death which only gets 67 points". According to http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Strong , +100 to 1 spell. That should be ANY attacking spell, regardless of school. This is where I'd like KI to explain it further, because it doesnt follow the pattern that it should, and to me, THAT makes it a bug; it's working in a way unintended by the general explanation. it should add 100 pts, it only adds 2/3rds of it.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
Darth JT on Apr 24, 2013 wrote:
Mathematics people... When using damage and getting 1/2 back health spells, Damage boosts gain 2/3 damage and 1/3 health. Please evaluate and see that this is how it is intended as to not overpower drain spells. It's real simple and nothing to complain about.

DarthJT
ok, so it's designed that way, ok, fine. Then it's working as intended, however, the card is then NOT doing what it says it's doing. I feel, any others will probably disagree, that if the card says it will add 100 pts, it should add 100 pts. How does 33 points REALLY overpower the spell? Even if you use (just taking numbers) +40%+25%+35%+25%+25%+45%, you'd still only get a total damage of 177 (rounded properly) and then only 88 pts of healing added. How does this overpower the card? That may be the theory, but I don't see the justification for it

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
dayerider on Apr 25, 2013 wrote:
ok, so it's designed that way, ok, fine. Then it's working as intended, however, the card is then NOT doing what it says it's doing. I feel, any others will probably disagree, that if the card says it will add 100 pts, it should add 100 pts. How does 33 points REALLY overpower the spell? Even if you use (just taking numbers) +40%+25%+35%+25%+25%+45%, you'd still only get a total damage of 177 (rounded properly) and then only 88 pts of healing added. How does this overpower the card? That may be the theory, but I don't see the justification for it
It says it is adding 100 and it is, according to the spell you are deciding to enchant. Since drain spells do full damage of card and give back 1/2 health, it is fair to give 2/3 damage boost of enchantment and back 1/3 health as that would be conjunction of that boost and attack card.

Now, if you really want to complain about this, Drain spells were unable to be enchanted at first, because of the heal. So, if you really want to be fair, I guess KI could make it go back to being unenchantable, but I like the fact that drain spells are enchantable and your complaint is is really unjustified. So, what is the justification of your complaint? Why should enchantments boost the damage and the health? Why should it give 100 damage and 50 health back when no other school gets health back on an attack card?

You have to give a little to get a little and this is clearly something that is only a bug in your mind, but in mathematical terms, it makes perfect sense!

DarthJT

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
Darth JT on May 11, 2013 wrote:
It says it is adding 100 and it is, according to the spell you are deciding to enchant. Since drain spells do full damage of card and give back 1/2 health, it is fair to give 2/3 damage boost of enchantment and back 1/3 health as that would be conjunction of that boost and attack card.

Now, if you really want to complain about this, Drain spells were unable to be enchanted at first, because of the heal. So, if you really want to be fair, I guess KI could make it go back to being unenchantable, but I like the fact that drain spells are enchantable and your complaint is is really unjustified. So, what is the justification of your complaint? Why should enchantments boost the damage and the health? Why should it give 100 damage and 50 health back when no other school gets health back on an attack card?

You have to give a little to get a little and this is clearly something that is only a bug in your mind, but in mathematical terms, it makes perfect sense!

DarthJT
I'm glad they are now enchantable spells and I would prefer them to stay that way.

My issue is, does 33 PTs of extra damage and 16 pts of extra heal REALLY make that much of a difference? Even if you stack multiple modifiers on top of it, it doesn't do enough to warrant a boost penalty like that. Under normal circumstances, most people wouldnt be boosting the spells to where it would actually make a difference. Yes, I know that with only a few combinations, it COULD do an extreme amount of damage, but other than bragging rights, what's really the point?

Just because there is a secondary action that heals the user doesn't mean the card shouldnt enchant it fully, and I disagree with KI saying that it's an acceptable effect. Notice, I'm not asking for the spells that hit and drain to be upped, I just want this one card to act the way it should be and not get penalized. Does life get penalized when they heal somebody else? No, because it's part of what they do. Does Fire get penalized for DoT? No, because that's what they do. KI programmed Death mages to Hit and Heal as their main distinction from other schools, and they're penalizing the school for having that benefit.

So again I ask, how would this overpower the card or a Death Mage by making it hit fully and heal that slight bit extra??

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
It says it is adding 100 and it is, according to the spell you are deciding to enchant.

it's only adding 67

Since drain spells do full damage of card and give back 1/2 health, it is fair to give 2/3 damage boost of enchantment and back 1/3 health.

Ok, but that would make sense ONLY if it boosted the healing part too. If I remove everything and do an attack of Wraith + Strong on a Lost Soul in Unicorn Way (which has zero resist to it), it gives me an attack of 567 and heals me for 283 HP. So where's the 1/3rd boost on healing going? Which of course goes back to my original comment of, this card is NOT functioning the way it is designed to, nor is it following the death school of thought that it's 2/3 attack boost and 1/3 heal boost that you claim it's doing. If they want to add 1/3 to healing in addition to the 1/2 damage as healing, then fine, it's boosting on both sides, but it's not doing that. Personally, I think if the card SAYS it adds 100, then it should ADD 100, and nothing less. Maybe it's just me being funny, I don't know, but it seems to me, the card says one thing and does another.

this is clearly something that is only a bug in your mind

Ok, I'll grant you this isnt a bug, so much as a design action (I can't call it a feature).

but in mathematical terms, it makes perfect sense!

In mathematical terms, the ONLY thing that makes sense is 500+100=600, not anything else. I don't mind trading off, but my point is, and has been, that some of the benefits of the Strong spell card are NOT being followed when it comes to death school. If it would take 67 and add it to attack AND give 33 to healing, it would make a bit more sense, but it doesn't do that Personally, I just dont see what difference 33 points makes. As I stated in another reply to you, but more for general stating, the only real world time that 33 pts makes a difference is when you have the time to boost the tar out of the spell.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3173
It's because enhancements are halved on Death's drain spells.

-v.

90

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
Dr Von on May 12, 2013 wrote:
It's because enhancements are halved on Death's drain spells.

-v.

90
They're reduced by 1/3 not 1/2. If they were reduced by 1/2, that would totally stink. So let me ask this question then, do people really think death would become overpowered if it got boosted the way the card should be? Even with Colossal, it really doesn't make a big difference. That would leave out 91 pts of the boost. I would love to hear other death mage's opinions here, because I think death could benefit from the cards working as they should. Think of it this way, would people with Pyromancers think it was fair if when you added sun spells, it changed the cards effects to a DoT spell? or how about balance, when you apply a sun enhancement, it would change it to a "either storm, fire or ice damage"?

If this card effected EVERY school differently, I would have NO problem with it. The problem I have is that it seems like KI think Death would become too powerful if they left it intact (either that or PvPers complained about it), which I believe is untrue

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3173
dayerider on May 12, 2013 wrote:
They're reduced by 1/3 not 1/2. If they were reduced by 1/2, that would totally stink. So let me ask this question then, do people really think death would become overpowered if it got boosted the way the card should be? Even with Colossal, it really doesn't make a big difference. That would leave out 91 pts of the boost. I would love to hear other death mage's opinions here, because I think death could benefit from the cards working as they should. Think of it this way, would people with Pyromancers think it was fair if when you added sun spells, it changed the cards effects to a DoT spell? or how about balance, when you apply a sun enhancement, it would change it to a "either storm, fire or ice damage"?

If this card effected EVERY school differently, I would have NO problem with it. The problem I have is that it seems like KI think Death would become too powerful if they left it intact (either that or PvPers complained about it), which I believe is untrue
As the owner of a promethean necromancer, yes~ I do think that allowing the enchantments to be applied at their full value would make the school a bit overpowered because Death is the only school that is able to attack and heal at the same time. It's not a big difference in points, but just enough that the other schools would notice it and find something to complain about.



(disclaimer: von can't remember offhand if colossal does 275 or 300, so please ignore the use of those numbers... they are there for example only).

a scarecrow does 400 base~ colossal scarecrow does 583 base, instead of the full 700 (or 675 or whatever), because half of that gets returned as healing... and, if your damage boost is high, that can turn into 2500+ damage to each enemy, for 10K total damage.

now, imagine if that were boosted as are attack-only cards...yikes.

i don't think comparing these to other spells is accurate. reason being, when a dot (or multi-hit spell, if you are balance) is boosted, the boost is not added to the initial hit only~ it's spread over all 3 hits. same goes for hydra and chimera.

for x-rank spells (like judge and tempest), the boost is not added per pip~ it is added to the total damage only once. a colossal judge for my balance wizard hits for 100/pip+ 300, not 400 per pip, because that would be so insanely overpowered that the other schools would cry nerf... same thing with tempest. factor in storm's scary damage boost, and every single person in the spiral will whine about it being overpowered. but if death gets the full boost, why not everyone else too?

not only would your suggestion throw the game off balance, but it would result in 1) the message boards being flooded with spam and tears, and 2) a lot of unnecessary nerfs.

just some food for thought,

-v.

90
75
54
31
22

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
dayerider on May 12, 2013 wrote:
It says it is adding 100 and it is, according to the spell you are deciding to enchant.

it's only adding 67

Since drain spells do full damage of card and give back 1/2 health, it is fair to give 2/3 damage boost of enchantment and back 1/3 health.

Ok, but that would make sense ONLY if it boosted the healing part too. If I remove everything and do an attack of Wraith + Strong on a Lost Soul in Unicorn Way (which has zero resist to it), it gives me an attack of 567 and heals me for 283 HP. So where's the 1/3rd boost on healing going? Which of course goes back to my original comment of, this card is NOT functioning the way it is designed to, nor is it following the death school of thought that it's 2/3 attack boost and 1/3 heal boost that you claim it's doing. If they want to add 1/3 to healing in addition to the 1/2 damage as healing, then fine, it's boosting on both sides, but it's not doing that. Personally, I think if the card SAYS it adds 100, then it should ADD 100, and nothing less. Maybe it's just me being funny, I don't know, but it seems to me, the card says one thing and does another.

this is clearly something that is only a bug in your mind

Ok, I'll grant you this isnt a bug, so much as a design action (I can't call it a feature).

but in mathematical terms, it makes perfect sense!

In mathematical terms, the ONLY thing that makes sense is 500+100=600, not anything else. I don't mind trading off, but my point is, and has been, that some of the benefits of the Strong spell card are NOT being followed when it comes to death school. If it would take 67 and add it to attack AND give 33 to healing, it would make a bit more sense, but it doesn't do that Personally, I just dont see what difference 33 points makes. As I stated in another reply to you, but more for general stating, the only real world time that 33 pts makes a difference is when you have the time to boost the tar out of the spell.
Again, think of your math, because it is giving you the healing.

500 damage = 250 1/2 back health, correct?
567 damage = 283 1/2 back health, correct?

so, by adding in 67 more damage you are getting 33 more health, 67 + 33 = 100

How are you stating that health is not being given back? That is an incorrect statement and major flaw in your evaluation of this enchantment.

DarthJT

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
not only would your suggestion throw the game off balance, but it would result in 1) the message boards being flooded with spam and tears, and 2) a lot of unnecessary nerfs.

I wouldn't have imagined it would throw the game off all THAT much. Besides, from all the posts I have read, the game is already unbalanced like mad. It SEEMS that the game hasn't been balanced in a LONG time; Life has no good attack, Storm hits too hard, Ice has too high resist, Balance has no prism spell, etc. It just seems to me that Death is being penalized for its primary school effect. I enjoy playing Death, and it's my 2nd character. Maybe when I've played as long as some of you people, I'll be able to see a better/clearer picture than I do now.

I will concede that if you have a high bonus to hit that the difference could get stacked high, but why should players be penalized for having a higher damage percent?

Let me then ask this question. What if there was a way to keep the extra for damage only? For example, with Colossal, 675 Damage + 291 to health? This way, the DAMAGE gets the full boost but the healing stays the way it is now? That seems like a fair compromise to me. Thoughts?

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3173
dayerider on May 14, 2013 wrote:
not only would your suggestion throw the game off balance, but it would result in 1) the message boards being flooded with spam and tears, and 2) a lot of unnecessary nerfs.

I wouldn't have imagined it would throw the game off all THAT much. Besides, from all the posts I have read, the game is already unbalanced like mad. It SEEMS that the game hasn't been balanced in a LONG time; Life has no good attack, Storm hits too hard, Ice has too high resist, Balance has no prism spell, etc. It just seems to me that Death is being penalized for its primary school effect. I enjoy playing Death, and it's my 2nd character. Maybe when I've played as long as some of you people, I'll be able to see a better/clearer picture than I do now.

I will concede that if you have a high bonus to hit that the difference could get stacked high, but why should players be penalized for having a higher damage percent?

Let me then ask this question. What if there was a way to keep the extra for damage only? For example, with Colossal, 675 Damage + 291 to health? This way, the DAMAGE gets the full boost but the healing stays the way it is now? That seems like a fair compromise to me. Thoughts?
trust me: once the pvp community finds something to whine about, they will whine about it until it's nerfed. it happened with wild bolt, sirens, and guardian spirit, and it will happen with death's drains as well if your proposed changed take effect.

and yes, you are right~ the game *is* unbalanced, in a big way.

right now, my life wizard is struggling in celestia because she's level 54 and gets her first aoe spell at level 58. (whoever's brilliant idea that was messed up, bigtime); storm has terrible health and even worse crit block, both of which are required to survive in azteca; ice immunity and jade gear have made them the undisputed gods of pvp, and balance is balance (lol). but i digress.

death is my second wizard as well, and i thoroughly enjoy playing him. but, while i fully understand and appreciate where you're coming from with your suggestions, i still think we'll be better off leaving the enchantments as they are.

-von/shadowsong/valerian & friends

90
77
54
31
22

Mastermind
Jun 01, 2009
304
I don't really think this has to be changed by adding the extra 33 points, however it should at least say on the card what damage it will do. :P

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
Darth JT on May 14, 2013 wrote:
Again, think of your math, because it is giving you the healing.

500 damage = 250 1/2 back health, correct?
567 damage = 283 1/2 back health, correct?

so, by adding in 67 more damage you are getting 33 more health, 67 + 33 = 100

How are you stating that health is not being given back? That is an incorrect statement and major flaw in your evaluation of this enchantment.

DarthJT
Honestly, I never thought about it that way, but upon further reflection, you're correct, it IS giving the healing back. I just never saw it that way; that the bonus from the initial hit gives you the rest of it in healing. Ok, so I'll concede the point that the card is adding 100 pts, just not to the damage. I disagree about it not adding the full 100 to damage, and personally feel it should, but I see how this can be interpreted a few ways and with the explanations I have received, I will agree it isnt a bug.

Grandmother, I agree, and a simple explanation would be: Adds 100 pts to overall effect of card being enhanced (or something similar).

von: I guess what I don't get is this: since when is PvP the MAIN function of the game? it seems like when they fix PvP they break PvE even more. Granted I havent been here as long as many of you guys, but that's how it SEEMS to me. Why can't there be separate effects for PvP and PvE? It would SEEM to me that there is room for both so they can fix what's broken without breaking what works.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2226
MythWizardForeves on May 17, 2013 wrote:
I don't really think this has to be changed by adding the extra 33 points, however it should at least say on the card what damage it will do. :P
Ok, I JUST thought of a perfect way to fix this problem. Simple change the wording of the cards to say this:

Ghoul: 160 damage and convert 80 to health
Vampire: 350 damage and convert 175 to health
Scarecrow: 400 damage to all enemies and convert 200 to health
Dr Von's monster: 820 damage, convert 410 to health, gives target -25%

When we add Strong to the cards, they would then state:

Ghoul: 235 damage and convert 113 to health
Vampire: 417 damage and convert 208 to health
Scarecrow: 467 damage to all enemies and convert 233 to health
Dr Von's monster: 887 damage, convert 443 to health, gives target -25%

This way, it's 100% CLEAR what is happening to the card, and now, everybody understands it and can do the math easier. That's a SIMPLE change that I feel would work wonders to clarify this issue from here on out. Anytime a sun enhancement is added, it would reflect that wording now that the initial card states both damage AND health.

Hero
Jul 30, 2012
771
The strong card states that it adds +100 dmg. It does not.

I must agree with the OP. I am not upset with the boosts we get... I think its fine. But the information presented on the spell card is incorrect. Nothing in-game explains this. Ambrose needs to have a chat with Dworgyn.

RottenHeart, Lvl 90

Archon
Oct 24, 2010
4952
dayerider on Apr 24, 2013 wrote:
that's doesnt seem like a bug to you tho? The treasure card is supposed to add 100 points to a single spell. it doesnt say anything about "Add 100 to any one spell, except death which only gets 67 points". According to http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Strong , +100 to 1 spell. That should be ANY attacking spell, regardless of school. This is where I'd like KI to explain it further, because it doesnt follow the pattern that it should, and to me, THAT makes it a bug; it's working in a way unintended by the general explanation. it should add 100 pts, it only adds 2/3rds of it.
No, it's not a bug. A bug is something that doesn't work as the programmer designed it. This works as it is supposed to.

The only cards affected are those with drains. Compare a drain spell and a 'regular' Death spell below. It's so there is no unfair advantage to Death.

http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Wraith

http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Skeletal_Pirate

Explorer
Jan 17, 2011
73
Um... sorry but it is NOT a glitch.
It is how it works.
It adds 100 PERCENT damage, not just 100 damage.

Brianna Starsong wizard level 59, almost 60

Hero
Jul 30, 2012
771
Athena wisdom godd... on Jun 19, 2013 wrote:
Um... sorry but it is NOT a glitch.
It is how it works.
It adds 100 PERCENT damage, not just 100 damage.

Brianna Starsong wizard level 59, almost 60
I think this thread has thoroughly established that it is not a programming mistake glitch. The astral spell card is simply stated incorrectly for all cases and it isn't explained anywhere in-game.

The strong spell certainly does not add 100 PERCENT damage to spells!

~ RottenHeart, Lvl 90

Explorer
Jan 17, 2011
73
Athena wisdom godd... on Jun 19, 2013 wrote:
Um... sorry but it is NOT a glitch.
It is how it works.
It adds 100 PERCENT damage, not just 100 damage.

Brianna Starsong wizard level 59, almost 60
sorry I didn't look at the card
I got it wrong clearly sorry