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Prism combo with other traps/shields unpredictable

AuthorMessage
Defender
May 06, 2009
125
Hi folks!

Just wanted to know if anyone else has noticed issues with the various prisms when used. Let's consider a scenario:

fire enemy
fire prism
fire trap
ice trap
ice shield

If you cast a fire spell, you can never truly predict what will happen, other than the prism will engage:

Sometimes, the prism will fire off, and the ice trap, doing enhanced damage.
Sometimes, the prism will fire off, AFTER the fire trap has been triggered, causing enhanced damage. Sometimes the shield will fire too, blocking most of the damage. I think I've sometimes seen both the fire and ice traps fire.
Sometimes, the prism will fire off, NEITHER trap will kick off, but the shield will fire and block most of the damage.
There always seems to be something else along with the prism, often more than one, but as to what fires off it seems to be a gamble.

Amusingly enough I've even seen a case where two opposite triggers were in place, and BOTH prisms fired off, leaving the damage back at the original type.

Can we at least get some consistency? I want to know if that ice shield is going to block me or not when fire turns to ice, and what traps will decide to apply themselves. Thanks!

Survivor
May 30, 2009
4
Triggers apply in reverse application order for the most part.

For example: If I as a frost mage want to do max damage to a Frost enemy I must first apply a fire trap (If I have one) then the Frost to Fire Prism, then a Frost trap in order to trigger all 3. If any are out of order, the Frost spell I cast will only trigger whatever was last applied.

2nd Example: If I apply Frost trap, then Frost to Fire prism, then use a Frost spell, Only the Frost to Fire prism will trigger.

Defender
Apr 25, 2009
104
I think the traps and shields that are triggered are determined by the order they are in. I don't think it's totally random.
The same sort of thing happens with burns and steady heals, the damage and healing goes in the order that they were put in.

Defender
Jan 20, 2009
137
No, you can ALWAYS predict which trap, prism, and/or ward will go in which order.

"Shield" spells (traps, wards, prisms, and absorb) are triggered in a last on first off order (the order that they were cast on the target). Also, each buff is checked only once in the damage calculation sequence for whether it applies to the damage or not. For example:

Fire enemy, spells in this order (first to last)

ice shield
fire prism
fire trap

When a fire spell is cast at this enemy, the fire trap will trigger, then the fire prism, then the ice trap, since the damage is now ice. Compare this to the following:

Fire enemy, spells in this order (first to last)

fire trap
fire prism
ice shield

When a fire spell is cast in this situation, the ice shield is checked and not applied, then the prism converts the damage to ice and the firs trap is also skipped. End result is prism triggers and the other two don't.

Also note that each identical spell will only trigger once in the sequence of calculations. If, however, the values are different for the same named spell (i.e., treasure card vs trained spell), both will trigger.

Defender
Dec 31, 2008
169
It is quite consistent once you know the rules: wards are triggered in the reverse order from which they were put on; and if two wards are identical in both name and value, only one of them will be used. Once a ward has been considered and ignored (because it is the wrong type of magic), it will not be considered again in that damage event.

So, fire attack on a fire foe, if this is the order things get put on:
1. fire-to-ice convert
2. ice shield

Here is the order they will be considered for use:
1. ice shield -- will be ignored because the incoming damage is fire
2. fire-to-ice convert --will be triggered, giving you the boost on ice damage, yay!

If the foe gets her shield up before the prism, like this:
1. ice shield
2. fire-to-ice convert

They will be considered for use in reverse order:
1. fire-to-ice convert -- will be triggered
2. ice shield -- will be triggered, because the damage is now ice, boo hoo!

Rule of thumb: when fighting your own school, get your prism on before they shield up! Backup plan: use an opposite school wand or one-pip treasure card to break their shield, either before or after you have placed a prism on top of it, but before using the prism.

For traps, put your own school trap on after your prism, so the trap fires before the damage is converted. If you or a partner have an opposite-school trap (ice trap in the case of a fire foe), put it on before your prism, so it will fire after the damage has been converted.

If you are fighting multiple foes, and one that is neither your school nor your opposite is wearing a shield for your school, you can put your prism on after their shield so the damage will be converted before the shield is considered, and the shield will be ignored. If you are fighting your opposite school, and their resist is weaker than the shield they have put up against your school, you can put your prism on after their shield to bypass the shield and settle for the resist instead. Just remember any of your school traps that went on before the prism will also be ignored.

And yes, it is possible for two prisms to both be used by one damage event, and in some rare cases it's desirable to have that happen.

Explorer
Feb 11, 2009
86
It is my understanding that the shields traps and charms engage in the order that they were introduced to the battle. What you are describing sort of supports that, if I read what you wrote correctly.

In the case where no trap fired, the ice trap was eligible for firing, but the attack was fire, then the prism converted to ice and the fire trap was available but the attack was now ice. Sounds stupid and all but it makes sense.

I have been monitoring this through my recent battles on Ds and this appears to be true. And yes in this method, you could waste two prisms and end up with your original fire attack but during the process both traps were disabled and the shield activated to waste a ton of pips and your time.

Explorer
Apr 22, 2009
54
Ok, it took me awhile to figure this out, but prisms work like this

Scenario:

Fire Enemy and you are Fire

If he puts up an Ice Shield BEFORE you put up your prism, then your prism is basically dead. If your prism goes up BEFORE his Ice Shield, then everything is cake. You need to put up your prism, THEN your Fire Trap. Everything activates backwards. So if your Prism is first, then your fire trap, then the ice shield it will active as such: fire trap, then prism henceforth transforming that fire to ice and the ice shield doesn't get activated.

I hope that somewhat clears things up/makes sense.

Sarai Dragonstone Grandmaster Ice/Storm
Sarai Dragonheart Lvl 35 Storm/Death

Defender
Sep 22, 2008
117
ElFuego wrote:
Hi folks!

Just wanted to know if anyone else has noticed issues with the various prisms when used. Let's consider a scenario:

fire enemy
fire prism
fire trap
ice trap
ice shield

If you cast a fire spell, you can never truly predict what will happen, other than the prism will engage:

Sometimes, the prism will fire off, and the ice trap, doing enhanced damage.
Sometimes, the prism will fire off, AFTER the fire trap has been triggered, causing enhanced damage. Sometimes the shield will fire too, blocking most of the damage. I think I've sometimes seen both the fire and ice traps fire.
Sometimes, the prism will fire off, NEITHER trap will kick off, but the shield will fire and block most of the damage.
There always seems to be something else along with the prism, often more than one, but as to what fires off it seems to be a gamble.

Amusingly enough I've even seen a case where two opposite triggers were in place, and BOTH prisms fired off, leaving the damage back at the original type.

Can we at least get some consistency? I want to know if that ice shield is going to block me or not when fire turns to ice, and what traps will decide to apply themselves. Thanks!
Actually you can predict what will happen, the most recently used shield/trap/prism will be activated first. So if you used a prism before the enemy used an ice shield the shield will not activate. If you wanted the fire trap to work, you'd need to use it after the prism was activated. An ice trap would need to be used before the prism was used. Hope this helps!

Defender
May 06, 2009
120
My best comment is you truely need to play with the traps and spells to see how it works. In a nut shell if you get your prism up and then the original type of damage trap after that, both will be used. In this same case if the mob just happen to put up a shield past your trap then the shield will NOT be touched. Also IF (not always sure it works but have seen it a few times) you put the trap up for the type of damage it will be converted to BEFORE the prism it should be picked up. So for your example the best spell layout (like you can get a mob to cooperate) would be.

--- A fire enemy ---
Ice trap
Fire prism
Fire trap
ice shield because he feels he is going to get a world of hurt.

Also as a general rule I normally keep a sword of appropriate type to knock off problem buffs like in this case I would use an ice sword since it won't break your personal buffs but will remove the peskey ice/tower shields. Granted it would also kill off your ice trap but meh sometimes that is better then having a shield up.

Although in general I think prisms are wonky anyways. Simply put I think a) reguardless where you have the buffs it should be picked up, and b) because of a it should also pick up the shield if appropriate.

Defender
May 06, 2009
125
Hi folks,

Thanks for a little more insight into the way things work. I see there IS a method to it, but this makes it a bit more discouraging. There have been a number of battles I have been in where there are a cloud of traps and such around an enemy. It sounds like to know if that ice shield is going to trigger, I need to remember what came first. Obviously the game does, but it ends up just being another thing that gets visually confusing in large complex battles. Think about the battle in the Dragonspyre tower where there are two enemies that do nothing but throw shields around, on themselves and the boss, and you can see this could get confusing.

Ah well, I guess I just have to pay attention more. If there are too many to keep track of, the order may as well be random.

] Although in general I think prisms are wonky anyways. Simply put I think
] a) reguardless where you have the buffs it should be picked up, and
] b) because of a it should also pick up the shield if appropriate.

Exactly so.

Survivor
Dec 13, 2008
35
Simply put, in terms of using Ice Prism, all Fire items that will activate must be BEFORE the convert and all Ice items must be AFTER to activate.

This means that if you are fighting an Ice monster, place the prism on as soon as possible so you don't have to deal with any Fire shields being placed before it. Once the prism is on there, nothing Fire afterwards will matter, including shields.

This is also why I obtain the sword of the opposite element of my school, so that my buffs are not wasted on it and so that I can remove the shields placed by enemies of my same school.