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Player still greifing through kiosk

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Oct 19, 2016
1
It appears that after hundreds of complaints from parents and their children they still allow players to grief other players that join the kiosk team up late so they don't make it in battle till second round , and at this point the group knowingly and willingly slaughter the instance in 1 shot , leaving the left out player with no loot , quest reward , ability to help the group , and when they leave they are rewarded with a 10 min timer debuff to rejoin anther kiosk team , or any team up option , personaly ive lost over 4 hours of game play to this griefing , so what is being done about this ?

Historian
Mar 16, 2012
656
aace420 on Dec 5, 2017 wrote:
It appears that after hundreds of complaints from parents and their children they still allow players to grief other players that join the kiosk team up late so they don't make it in battle till second round , and at this point the group knowingly and willingly slaughter the instance in 1 shot , leaving the left out player with no loot , quest reward , ability to help the group , and when they leave they are rewarded with a 10 min timer debuff to rejoin anther kiosk team , or any team up option , personaly ive lost over 4 hours of game play to this griefing , so what is being done about this ?
What do you suggest should be done? Those who "grief" others would do that in any case; there are those who get joy out of destroying another's fun.
Adding penalties or slow downs ( as some have been suggesting ) would just punish the good players along with the bad.
In the long run, once these griefers get what they want ( badges ) then they'll disappear from the scene. This will leave the kiosk open to those who genuinely wish to help.

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1851
Many of us players who want to help are aware of this and discussing the problem in multiple threads. The hope is that KI also is watching and will take steps to curb this abuse.

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/halstons-laboratory/players-using-the-help-process-incorrectly-8ad6a42660070ec30160196faa120412?page=1

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/the-dorms/team-up-kiosk-possible-solution--8ad6a42460070ed101601315094702c0?page=1

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/ravenwood-commons/team-up-d-8ad6a42560070ee401600e4d32686106?page=1

When I see it happening, I friend the one who was left out and make it a point to repeat the battle with just them so they can get their quest done. That means I won't get a "helping point," but so be it.

In the mean time, know that the badge hunters will quickly get their 100 points for 'helping' badge and then move on. They're not actually there to help, unfortunately. But once they're gone, you'll hopefully run into more of us other wizards who do care and want to help.

Alia Misthaven

Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
830
The sad thing is that through the kiosk you will get a random collection of wizards and have zero control over whether they are true Helpers, "I-Don't-Care-To-Help-I'm-Farming", "TEAM?-I'm-Here-For-The-Badge" or "My-Name-Is-Sid_I-Destroy-Toys-And-Ruin-Everyone's-Fun".

Short of the true helpers picking a realm, wearing a certain item, and waiting for wizards who KNOW we will help come and ask for the help, I'm not sure what to do to fix it.

Steven Ghoststalker
83

Historian
Mar 16, 2012
656
Area51Alien on Dec 6, 2017 wrote:
The sad thing is that through the kiosk you will get a random collection of wizards and have zero control over whether they are true Helpers, "I-Don't-Care-To-Help-I'm-Farming", "TEAM?-I'm-Here-For-The-Badge" or "My-Name-Is-Sid_I-Destroy-Toys-And-Ruin-Everyone's-Fun".

Short of the true helpers picking a realm, wearing a certain item, and waiting for wizards who KNOW we will help come and ask for the help, I'm not sure what to do to fix it.

Steven Ghoststalker
83
Steven Ghoststalker, you nailed the three worst types you find in a team up. Immortals help the poor wizard who gets all three when he/she sends a distress signal!

Explorer
May 30, 2010
84
aace420 on Dec 5, 2017 wrote:
It appears that after hundreds of complaints from parents and their children they still allow players to grief other players that join the kiosk team up late so they don't make it in battle till second round , and at this point the group knowingly and willingly slaughter the instance in 1 shot , leaving the left out player with no loot , quest reward , ability to help the group , and when they leave they are rewarded with a 10 min timer debuff to rejoin anther kiosk team , or any team up option , personaly ive lost over 4 hours of game play to this griefing , so what is being done about this ?
This has never really when away. I started the team up Kiosk a few months ago and let me tell you this is always been a problem. It is only because of the new items that it finally came to the middle of the stage. Before the new items, I have seen a one or two storms and fires max who did not wait for everyone. Just try to do higher level team up kiosk right now as they (one-shoter) only care about the badges. After a month or so, I beat we see a lower of high level wizards help lower ones

Illuminator
Jan 18, 2010
1326
When this mechanic or idea was implemented on the company's sister game; Pirate101, a similar issue arose leading to multiple thread discussing the problem and possible solutions that could solve this. Fast forward until now, many would think that by now, things would've been done to combat this, but, in light of events, this is what I've noticed:

  • The NPC giving the quest in Wiz encouraging us to use the Team Up Kiosk dialogue has slightly changed. He now adds that we should not be mean and wait on the person requesting the help to join the battle first and to interact with NPC's in the instance.
  • Threads discussing the issue are locked in the middle of dialogue. While we speak together as a community, we should exercise strong respect to one another. No need to be rude or condescending when trying to bring a point across. If that's the case, we're no different from those one-shotters.


As a result of this known problem though, others have suggested that no one gets credited until the person requesting the help is in the battle and is allowed his/her time to talk to NPC's etc; similar to Malistare's Dungeon during the dialogue just before facing him.

Or, the battle doesn't begin until the person requesting the help joins and is in the battle. However what if that person looses connection? Are we all to suffer?

So, there may exists solutions, but some are not definite.

As Freshta highlighted, I too employ her tactic and friend those needing the assistance and enter the area back with them. It not only shows that you care, but imagine how joyful that person you're helping would feel, especially after being blindsided by these "one-shotters."

A little goes a long way..

I'll never stop helping and you shouldn't too!


Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
830
I'm all in favor of making sure those who requested the fight are helped. How does one determine who requested the fight?

Every team up I've been in as had someone in the ring before I can even get my chat window open.

Steven Ghoststalker
83

Hero
Sep 07, 2011
725
Whoa there, too many assumptions. You don't know what other players are thinking or their intent. I haven't seen players "griefing" team up. There are certainly over-enthusiastic hammers who can't wait to fire off their big hits. There are also people who request "team up" then go afk, or are looking at another window and miss their fight. As someone who uses the kiosk a lot, I've stood there passing for round after round while the person who initiated the fight stood there unresponsive until I gave up and attacked. It goes both ways.

To helpers: Please give everyone time to get into the fight before hitting. Respect the wishes of the requester, such as reading / hearing dialog, exploring dungeons for items, etc. No need to rush.

To requesters: Helpers are not your minions. Please pay attention and be prepared to participate in your own fight. "Please", "thank you", "hello" etc are appreciated.

To KI: It would be helpful if the player who requested was identified in some way, and/or had to confirm before the fight started, or had to move or respond. If the requesting party didn't trigger the fight within a reasonable time frame, helpers could exit without a penalty. Sometimes we don't know who we are helping, or even how many players are active in the instance.

To all: Helpful suggestions for improvement are more effective than indignation. KI and other players are generally not out to get you. Let's look for positives. Team up is a great feature. We can make it better as Star Edward said above. Spread the word about proper team etiquette. Keep the ideas coming.

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1851
"There are certainly over-enthusiastic hammers who can't wait to fire off their big hits."

I'm sorry, how is this not griefing? They know they're supposed to help a lower level wizard and yet don't even bother to wait and make sure everyone made it into the battle before they one-hit destroy everything on the first turn? And that's not intentional? Maybe they aren't deliberately trying to 'ruin someone's day,' but fact remains that their thoughtless and selfish actions - speeding through at the expense of the wizard who asked for the help, just so THEY can get an "I helped!" badge - are causing grief.

The kindest thing you can say is that they're inconsiderate. Which, again, is the opposite of being helpful. The person who got shafted on the help now has to wait ten minutes before they can even ask again.

Trying to put the blame on people who asked for help is not productive to this particular issue. We're not talking about someone who stood on the sidelines for five turns, we're talking about one-hit kills ending the battle on round 1, before the low level wizard has even finished hearing the dialog.

There's no excuse for that.

Alia Misthaven

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1851
"To KI: It would be helpful if the player who requested was identified in some way, and/or had to confirm before the fight started, or had to move or respond. If the requesting party didn't trigger the fight within a reasonable time frame, helpers could exit without a penalty. Sometimes we don't know who we are helping, or even how many players are active in the instance."

This, on the other hand, is a good way to compromise.

The wizard who initiated the team-up must be the one to activate the battle and, if they're checked out, the rest of us can leave after a set amount of time without incurring an abandonment penalty.

The other compromise that I'd like to see, is that we only earn a badge point if the original requester actually finishes his or her quest. If they didn't get credit, neither do we.

Alia Misthaven

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1310
Area51Alien on Dec 6, 2017 wrote:
The sad thing is that through the kiosk you will get a random collection of wizards and have zero control over whether they are true Helpers, "I-Don't-Care-To-Help-I'm-Farming", "TEAM?-I'm-Here-For-The-Badge" or "My-Name-Is-Sid_I-Destroy-Toys-And-Ruin-Everyone's-Fun".

Short of the true helpers picking a realm, wearing a certain item, and waiting for wizards who KNOW we will help come and ask for the help, I'm not sure what to do to fix it.

Steven Ghoststalker
83
Steven I like your helper idea.

I vote "white hats" though, they are easy to spot, not many other wizards wear white hats and white hat is slang for helper or good guy or hero.

It's your idea so you can pick the Realm and meet up times. I think your idea will be popular. Good luck.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1310
Area51Alien on Dec 7, 2017 wrote:
I'm all in favor of making sure those who requested the fight are helped. How does one determine who requested the fight?

Every team up I've been in as had someone in the ring before I can even get my chat window open.

Steven Ghoststalker
83
I look at the health of each team member in relationship to the quest level. If one is very low and everyone else is Max and we are in a low level world it's probably the one with low health.

But I usually ask. Sometimes everyone is farming. That doesn't bother me because not everyone can afford crowns. Usually one person has the quest and the others are helping.

The other night a person was on two wizards. I didn't mind that either except it was humorous they denied it at first. But then I reminded them I had private messaged a question to one of them and the other (nowhere in sight of the first, who had run ahead, while the second one got pulled, and I stopped to help them), replied in open chat. Ha

Then they admitted it after I told them it didn't matter, that a lot of people play on more than one account.

Tonight I answered a team up and I think it was again one person, two wizards. I asked everyone to friend up. One did the other didn't. Okay. Shrug. But then both split up and went different ways. I followed the arrow. They went through and did parts of the quest separately. Very disjointed. I finally just took a tp to the final boss battle, killed it on request and that was that.

One wanted more help so i helped with another boss battle, and that's another story for in person, since it seems to irk some here if I tell stories about game play, even though we are on a message board pertaining to that game. Lol

My point though is that it is often my experience that the one calling for the team up can be the one trolling it too. It isn't always the ones who answer it.

I'm still not for anything that would slow down the process or penalize everyone for the actions of a few.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1310
Gemma Luna on Dec 7, 2017 wrote:
Whoa there, too many assumptions. You don't know what other players are thinking or their intent. I haven't seen players "griefing" team up. There are certainly over-enthusiastic hammers who can't wait to fire off their big hits. There are also people who request "team up" then go afk, or are looking at another window and miss their fight. As someone who uses the kiosk a lot, I've stood there passing for round after round while the person who initiated the fight stood there unresponsive until I gave up and attacked. It goes both ways.

To helpers: Please give everyone time to get into the fight before hitting. Respect the wishes of the requester, such as reading / hearing dialog, exploring dungeons for items, etc. No need to rush.

To requesters: Helpers are not your minions. Please pay attention and be prepared to participate in your own fight. "Please", "thank you", "hello" etc are appreciated.

To KI: It would be helpful if the player who requested was identified in some way, and/or had to confirm before the fight started, or had to move or respond. If the requesting party didn't trigger the fight within a reasonable time frame, helpers could exit without a penalty. Sometimes we don't know who we are helping, or even how many players are active in the instance.

To all: Helpful suggestions for improvement are more effective than indignation. KI and other players are generally not out to get you. Let's look for positives. Team up is a great feature. We can make it better as Star Edward said above. Spread the word about proper team etiquette. Keep the ideas coming.
"To requesters: Helpers are not your minions. Please pay attention and be prepared to participate in your own fight. "Please", "thank you", "hello" etc are appreciated."

This.

I will help as much as is needed, provided I don't have to go offline before then (some people want an hour or more help), but courtesy goes a long way.

I just had a level 10 keep telling me how to play, even though nothing was wrong. They must've said it 5 times. First round they had paged me mid battle and then they got killed. Second round I killed everything within a few rounds. But before the second round and throughout the second battle (even though the first hadn't been lost by me), they kept telling me what to do. It was nearly comical.

And they wanted me to do something that could get me banned. I've done a lot of team ups and I've met all types of personalities and it really is a roll of the dice. None of these issues are news or new to me. I think both sides can be more courteous at times.

I run ahead but it's mainly so the low level I'm helping does not require constant shielding and healing. Once I am there I stall and wait until everyone is active, then I like to ask how they want me to play. If I am short on time or no one answers my hello, then I just hit. But only when everyone's in an active circle. People should keep in mind also that sometimes you get there and no one else moves, or they split up and get lost and won't answer where they are. It's not always the one who is higher level who is the one trolling or slacking off.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1310
Freshta on Dec 8, 2017 wrote:
"To KI: It would be helpful if the player who requested was identified in some way, and/or had to confirm before the fight started, or had to move or respond. If the requesting party didn't trigger the fight within a reasonable time frame, helpers could exit without a penalty. Sometimes we don't know who we are helping, or even how many players are active in the instance."

This, on the other hand, is a good way to compromise.

The wizard who initiated the team-up must be the one to activate the battle and, if they're checked out, the rest of us can leave after a set amount of time without incurring an abandonment penalty.

The other compromise that I'd like to see, is that we only earn a badge point if the original requester actually finishes his or her quest. If they didn't get credit, neither do we.

Alia Misthaven
"The wizard who initiated the team-up must be the one to activate the battle and, if they're checked out, the rest of us can leave after a set amount of time without incurring an abandonment penalty."

Please, no. Whatever things I can buy from the kiosk NPC would not be worth waiting 2 full minutes just to get there, another 2 minutes for everyone to make it into the circle, a half hour for the person who called for the team up to decide to walk into the circle, etc. I'm exaggerating a bit but that's what it is like at times.

Even if the fight would be disbanded after 2 minutes if the one who began the team up never moved, or didn't show up at all, that's still 4 minutes of wait time per team up. (2 minutes to get there, 2 minutes and then a disbanded i.e. non existent battle, meaning everyone starts over again without any points or help.)


Please, no.

I'd like to see the penalty removed though if the one who asked for the team up left. As it is everyone else has to fight the battle anyway, or be penalized for 'leaving.' Adding more penalties would only result in more trolling of that sort, in my opinion. The ones we have now are already used to waste other people's time on purpose.

Survivor
Jun 16, 2012
10
As a previous poster has said, there are many situations in this issue that need to be addressed.

I myself have helped many lower level players complete quests.
I rush to be the first in the ring to PROTECT the lower level players, as the first player tends to get all the hits until someone else fires off a hit. If I get in and the rest don't make it for the first round, all the bosses and minions blow their best attacks on my high level player, thus protecting the lower level players by allowing them to build up PIPS before the bosses and minions can fire off high level spells again.

I tend to take out the bosses or put enough damage on them to make it easier to survive the quest. I also will take out the minions and allow the others to concentrate on the boss only.

I also ask how they want to handle things, let me take out everyone, or just assist or play healer, I let them direct the game. I've even taken out all the leading challenges, and left the boss battle to the other players to complete, lending assistance as needed.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1310
jrw1962 on Dec 9, 2017 wrote:
As a previous poster has said, there are many situations in this issue that need to be addressed.

I myself have helped many lower level players complete quests.
I rush to be the first in the ring to PROTECT the lower level players, as the first player tends to get all the hits until someone else fires off a hit. If I get in and the rest don't make it for the first round, all the bosses and minions blow their best attacks on my high level player, thus protecting the lower level players by allowing them to build up PIPS before the bosses and minions can fire off high level spells again.

I tend to take out the bosses or put enough damage on them to make it easier to survive the quest. I also will take out the minions and allow the others to concentrate on the boss only.

I also ask how they want to handle things, let me take out everyone, or just assist or play healer, I let them direct the game. I've even taken out all the leading challenges, and left the boss battle to the other players to complete, lending assistance as needed.
All of this.

If the quester rushes in first, with 3-digit-level health, compared to my 8000 plus health, I will spend the whole time shielding them, and they could well get killed. If that's an instance where they wanted it over with fast, (as in one of my stories above), that's counter productive. But for some reason some still want to be in that first spot.

I rush in so I can protect, and take the most damage. I then wait until all are active. I say hello, I might add "don't worry I will wait," or something to reassure them I'm not going to disregard them. I look to see who seems eager and if anyone is 'claiming' a boss, or who they put traps on, etc. If they are shielding themselves, or waiting to see what I do, I might do something neutral like cast an aura or trap, or shield someone. Then I might ask whose quest and how they want this played.

But I really just try to vibe the situation and play it 'by ear,' however the rushing into first spot is to protect the other players. It doesn't mean I'm going to take all the 'glory.' Just wanted to reiterate that, as the other impression could cause tension from the outset, in future team ups, where none might be warranted. Give the person a chance to show who they are, they might be a very considerate player.

Administrator
Stay tuned, we're working on a small update that we hope helps put a bandaid on the problems being experienced in the Team Up Kiosk.

Illuminator
Jan 18, 2010
1326
Dworgyn on Dec 11, 2017 wrote:
Stay tuned, we're working on a small update that we hope helps put a bandaid on the problems being experienced in the Team Up Kiosk.
This is what I like to see!

When KI listens to members of the community and apply the necessary changes.

Thank-You!

Seriously :D