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Person(s) who go first in fight = HUGE advantage

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Feb 27, 2009
8
This is a simple idea I have for the combat system that would make combat MUCH more fair and fluid, and also make strategizing much easier.

The combat system:
In its current state, everyone chooses their spell and then each person gets their turn in a clockwise motion to cast their initially chosen spell which makes up a "round".
The flaw to this system is that it gives the person(s) who got to go first a huge advantage, and the person(s) chosen to go second a huge disadvantage. I will attempt to layout why in this basic example:

Lets just say person A gets to go 1st, and person B 2nd. Well person A will always have the advantage because they will always be able to react 1st to person B's spell. Whereas person B can never be proactive to person A's spells because of the AB AB AB pattern where B is left to guess what A is going to do and A can react proactively to B's previous spell because they get to go 1st each round see?

"Card Choosing"
Person A chooses a blade power up to boost their next spell
Person B chooses whatever(it doesn't matter)
"Round is executed"
Well now person B is going well oh dang they casted a blade card and are likely going to cast something powerful in conjunction with it. But theres nothing they can do because at the beginning of the next round person A gets to go 1st again.

Now lets switch it up
"Card choosing"
Person A chooses whatever(it doesn't matter)
Person B chooses a blade power up to boost their next spell
"Round is executed"

Well since person A gets to go 1st each round they can go "aha a blade card, their next spell is probably going to hurt" and then proactively cast a shield card.
(there are countless situations beyond just this basic example where this advantage applies)

So hopefully you see what I mean. The simple solution to this?

Make it to where each person cast their spell immediately after choosing it instead of everyone choosing spells and then the round being executed without stop.

This would make it to where everybody regardless of who went 1st or 2nd could play and strategize off the previous players move. This would make the combat in general much more fluid and much much more fair.

Think of if this current combat system applied to chess. Where each player chose where they wanted to move, and then the pieces both moved one after the other in a "round". It would completely break and destroy efforts to strategize in such a game, much in the same way I feel it sort of breaks combat in the current state of Wizard 101.

For "damage over round" spells. A round could still be determined by the dial making a complete circle.

And as for teams being able to see what each other were doing. Just simply make it to where one team chooses all their spells and then casted them all in a clockwise motion. And then the other team gets their turn. Instead of everyone choosing at once.

I really put a lot of work into this post hehe. So I would definitely appreciate some feedback as to what everyone thinks. And some feedback from an administrator would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks all, and good luck on your adventures!

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
I think this is more a matter of perspective. You just have to attack (sorry about the bad pun) the problem differently. If you go second, you defend first, build up some extra pips, then 'toy' with your opponent. While building up pips, cast a zero cost sword, then hit 'em with an attack spell from your secondary school. While they are healing themselves from this deception, use the sword with a school based one pip spell to blow down the shield, then the next round cast a larger spell from your school based on your saved pips as sort of a left-right-right combo.

Just go a bit more defensive, and slowly drag out the pain for your foe as you tease him. There is no real rush, defend, build pips and then hit with combos after your foe and bashed herself on your defenses. There is nothing like having to worry about the seven pip limit without having taken any real damage while noticing your foe has no pips to fast heal himself.

Survivor
Feb 08, 2009
7
Where as you do have some arguable points, i do not think that your system will work well. If you cast it immediately as chosen, everyone will be throwing spells non stop. And the players are so used to the system, to change it now wouldnt it wellm with wizards.

And remember, fizzle is an enemy, but can also be a friend.


BurntIce,
Level 23 Necro

Survivor
Dec 10, 2008
14
Lol there is an old saying that works for me "if it isn't broken don't fix it " combate system in the game works just fine as far as who goes first its just a computer version of a coin toss before it ever begins lol nothing wrong with the way it is now at all

Explorer
Jul 12, 2008
50
Medivh wrote:
This is a simple idea I have for the combat system that would make combat MUCH more fair and fluid, and also make strategizing much easier.

The combat system:
In its current state, everyone chooses their spell and then each person gets their turn in a clockwise motion to cast their initially chosen spell which makes up a "round".
The flaw to this system is that it gives the person(s) who got to go first a huge advantage, and the person(s) chosen to go second a huge disadvantage. I will attempt to layout why in this basic example:

Lets just say person A gets to go 1st, and person B 2nd. Well person A will always have the advantage because they will always be able to react 1st to person B's spell. Whereas person B can never be proactive to person A's spells because of the AB AB AB pattern where B is left to guess what A is going to do and A can react proactively to B's previous spell because they get to go 1st each round see?

"Card Choosing"
Person A chooses a blade power up to boost their next spell
Person B chooses whatever(it doesn't matter)
"Round is executed"
Well now person B is going well oh dang they casted a blade card and are likely going to cast something powerful in conjunction with it. But theres nothing they can do because at the beginning of the next round person A gets to go 1st again.

Now lets switch it up
"Card choosing"
Person A chooses whatever(it doesn't matter)
Person B chooses a blade power up to boost their next spell
"Round is executed"

Well since person A gets to go 1st each round they can go "aha a blade card, their next spell is probably going to hurt" and then proactively cast a shield card.
(there are countless situations beyond just this basic example where this advantage applies)

So hopefully you see what I mean. The simple solution to this?

Make it to where each person cast their spell immediately after choosing it instead of everyone choosing spells and then the round being executed without stop.

This would make it to where everybody regardless of who went 1st or 2nd could play and strategize off the previous players move. This would make the combat in general much more fluid and much much more fair.

Think of if this current combat system applied to chess. Where each player chose where they wanted to move, and then the pieces both moved one after the other in a "round". It would completely break and destroy efforts to strategize in such a game, much in the same way I feel it sort of breaks combat in the current state of Wizard 101.

For "damage over round" spells. A round could still be determined by the dial making a complete circle.

And as for teams being able to see what each other were doing. Just simply make it to where one team chooses all their spells and then casted them all in a clockwise motion. And then the other team gets their turn. Instead of everyone choosing at once.

I really put a lot of work into this post hehe. So I would definitely appreciate some feedback as to what everyone thinks. And some feedback from an administrator would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks all, and good luck on your adventures!


Personally I dont see this as a major issue. This is more of a problem where people are not paying attention to thier other players instead of a flaw in the system.

I have been playing this game on multiple wizards with the same people and all that needs to be done is for all the players to pay attention to the little "circle" below the co players names. This tells you what they are casting that round. This way you dont double up attacking the same person.

We have never had an issue with this... The only issue we have is when someone else jumps in our battle and ignores what others are playing and uses shields just because they are there and dont take into account there may be a reason its there.

If players can start paying attention to the game and not just what they are doing, this wouldnt be an issue at all...

Heather Ravelblood
Level 50 - Death/Life

Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
That would make PvE quite a bit easier, as it would be equivalent to players always going first, except that mobs might get a free turn at the start. It would also make PvP quite a bit slower.

If the goal is to make it symmetric, you could alternate who goes first each round, effectively giving each side two consecutive turns. That is: AB BA AB BA...

Alternatively, you could make which side goes first in a round chosen randomly and independently for each round.

Defender
Jan 20, 2009
137
I disagree with having a casting phase for each person instead of each turn. What I do think would make a lot more sense, however, is to have a casting phase for each TEAM instead of one per turn.

Refer to this thread for more info https://www.wizard101.com/site/posts/list/3304.ftl

Survivor
Feb 27, 2009
8
BurntIce wrote:
Where as you do have some arguable points, i do not think that your system will work well. If you cast it immediately as chosen, everyone will be throwing spells non stop. And the players are so used to the system, to change it now wouldnt it wellm with wizards.

And remember, fizzle is an enemy, but can also be a friend.


BurntIce,
Level 23 Necro


I don't mean like right then immediately and just keep casting. I meant like:

player A chooses spell and cast it then it goes to player B
player B chooses spell and cast it, then back to player A

Survivor
Feb 27, 2009
8
ashbaer wrote:
Medivh wrote:
This is a simple idea I have for the combat system that would make combat MUCH more fair and fluid, and also make strategizing much easier.

The combat system:
In its current state, everyone chooses their spell and then each person gets their turn in a clockwise motion to cast their initially chosen spell which makes up a "round".
The flaw to this system is that it gives the person(s) who got to go first a huge advantage, and the person(s) chosen to go second a huge disadvantage. I will attempt to layout why in this basic example:

Lets just say person A gets to go 1st, and person B 2nd. Well person A will always have the advantage because they will always be able to react 1st to person B's spell. Whereas person B can never be proactive to person A's spells because of the AB AB AB pattern where B is left to guess what A is going to do and A can react proactively to B's previous spell because they get to go 1st each round see?

"Card Choosing"
Person A chooses a blade power up to boost their next spell
Person B chooses whatever(it doesn't matter)
"Round is executed"
Well now person B is going well oh dang they casted a blade card and are likely going to cast something powerful in conjunction with it. But theres nothing they can do because at the beginning of the next round person A gets to go 1st again.

Now lets switch it up
"Card choosing"
Person A chooses whatever(it doesn't matter)
Person B chooses a blade power up to boost their next spell
"Round is executed"

Well since person A gets to go 1st each round they can go "aha a blade card, their next spell is probably going to hurt" and then proactively cast a shield card.
(there are countless situations beyond just this basic example where this advantage applies)

So hopefully you see what I mean. The simple solution to this?

Make it to where each person cast their spell immediately after choosing it instead of everyone choosing spells and then the round being executed without stop.

This would make it to where everybody regardless of who went 1st or 2nd could play and strategize off the previous players move. This would make the combat in general much more fluid and much much more fair.

Think of if this current combat system applied to chess. Where each player chose where they wanted to move, and then the pieces both moved one after the other in a "round". It would completely break and destroy efforts to strategize in such a game, much in the same way I feel it sort of breaks combat in the current state of Wizard 101.

For "damage over round" spells. A round could still be determined by the dial making a complete circle.

And as for teams being able to see what each other were doing. Just simply make it to where one team chooses all their spells and then casted them all in a clockwise motion. And then the other team gets their turn. Instead of everyone choosing at once.

I really put a lot of work into this post hehe. So I would definitely appreciate some feedback as to what everyone thinks. And some feedback from an administrator would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks all, and good luck on your adventures!


Personally I dont see this as a major issue. This is more of a problem where people are not paying attention to thier other players instead of a flaw in the system.

I have been playing this game on multiple wizards with the same people and all that needs to be done is for all the players to pay attention to the little "circle" below the co players names. This tells you what they are casting that round. This way you dont double up attacking the same person.

We have never had an issue with this... The only issue we have is when someone else jumps in our battle and ignores what others are playing and uses shields just because they are there and dont take into account there may be a reason its there.

If players can start paying attention to the game and not just what they are doing, this wouldnt be an issue at all...

Heather Ravelblood
Level 50 - Death/Life

this isnt really relevant to what i was saying hehe
err I don't think you quite understand what I was saying maybe? :?

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
The original poster has a VERY valid concern. Especially in high end PvP. Whoever goes first has a HUGE advantage. HUGE.

The solution is this... Initiative.

Make Initiative a new stat for gear. As it is now it may as well be a coin toss. Some may think this is fair and to a certain extent it just may be. But give us a way to influence it somehow.

This new stat should be ALL OVER the PvP gear. PvE it's not so much a concern.

Explorer
Jan 18, 2009
68
I agree with having each side take respective turns, in response to their opposing sides.

I can't tell you how many times an opposing side (that went before me) cast a shield that rendered the attack I casted that same turn useless, using up all the charms and wards I carefully spent so many turns setting up. I wouldn't mind it if I had time to react to this, because in most cases, if I could react to it, it wouldn't waste all my charms and wards.

Not to mention that it would use up one of my attack cards and I only put so many into my deck, forcing me to use a treasure card.

Survivor
Feb 27, 2009
8
uune wrote:
I agree with having each side take respective turns, in response to their opposing sides.

I can't tell you how many times an opposing side (that went before me) cast a shield that rendered the attack I casted that same turn useless, using up all the charms and wards I carefully spent so many turns setting up. I wouldn't mind it if I had time to react to this, because in most cases, if I could react to it, it wouldn't waste all my charms and wards.

Not to mention that it would use up one of my attack cards and I only put so many into my deck, forcing me to use a treasure card.


exactly. your spells can be entirely ruined if you go second.

ex. you go second, you build up all your buffs to hit them hard. You cast your spell only to find out they cast a shield or something which cuts it in half. Whereas if you went 1st and could react to what the other person did in that same round, you could use a wand attack or something to break the shield.

Could we PLEASE hear from an administrator on this issue