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New members-only benefit idea, drops from packs

AuthorMessage
Delver
Aug 21, 2013
228
This is a rather simple idea for a weekend members-only benefit, similar to double gardening rewards, double pet xp, etc. Improved drop chances from packs! So that when opening a pack, members have a better chance of the better loot from the pack.

Another idea akin to this one would be to have a guaranteed drop rarity (like 'epic') in every opened pack, with the rest of it being completely random as always. No guarantee on which 'epic' item, though. Either that, or have three "ultra-rare or better" guaranteed drops, again with no guarantees on which of the items will drop, only that it will be of that rarity (or better).

Explorer
May 11, 2013
60
Fangs McWolf on Feb 1, 2019 wrote:
This is a rather simple idea for a weekend members-only benefit, similar to double gardening rewards, double pet xp, etc. Improved drop chances from packs! So that when opening a pack, members have a better chance of the better loot from the pack.

Another idea akin to this one would be to have a guaranteed drop rarity (like 'epic') in every opened pack, with the rest of it being completely random as always. No guarantee on which 'epic' item, though. Either that, or have three "ultra-rare or better" guaranteed drops, again with no guarantees on which of the items will drop, only that it will be of that rarity (or better).
No, because paywalls locked behind paywalls are pointless

Geographer
Mar 16, 2012
815
Fangs McWolf on Feb 1, 2019 wrote:
This is a rather simple idea for a weekend members-only benefit, similar to double gardening rewards, double pet xp, etc. Improved drop chances from packs! So that when opening a pack, members have a better chance of the better loot from the pack.

Another idea akin to this one would be to have a guaranteed drop rarity (like 'epic') in every opened pack, with the rest of it being completely random as always. No guarantee on which 'epic' item, though. Either that, or have three "ultra-rare or better" guaranteed drops, again with no guarantees on which of the items will drop, only that it will be of that rarity (or better).
This would be unfair to all non-member players. After all, we're paying the SAME amount for a pack as a member does; we ought to have the SAME chance at a good drop. Without KI "rigging" the RNG to favor members. ( and I do believe that this idea happens to be against the law. )

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2015
Fangs McWolf on Feb 1, 2019 wrote:
This is a rather simple idea for a weekend members-only benefit, similar to double gardening rewards, double pet xp, etc. Improved drop chances from packs! So that when opening a pack, members have a better chance of the better loot from the pack.

Another idea akin to this one would be to have a guaranteed drop rarity (like 'epic') in every opened pack, with the rest of it being completely random as always. No guarantee on which 'epic' item, though. Either that, or have three "ultra-rare or better" guaranteed drops, again with no guarantees on which of the items will drop, only that it will be of that rarity (or better).
It's a cool idea because we'd all like to see better drop rates from packs and some guarantees would be welcomed...but I don't think it would be fair as a member benefit. We all pay for packs with real money and it's right that everyone gets the same chances. There are already a ton of conspiracy theories about packs being rigged without KI actually rigging them for a limited time as a benefit...and I can practically hear the outrage and complaints it would generate already!

Thank you for sharing your idea...we can never tell when an idea will blossom into the next awesome thing! It's always positive to share and discuss ideas, we never know where it will lead

Delver
Aug 21, 2013
228
anecorbie on Feb 2, 2019 wrote:
This would be unfair to all non-member players. After all, we're paying the SAME amount for a pack as a member does; we ought to have the SAME chance at a good drop. Without KI "rigging" the RNG to favor members. ( and I do believe that this idea happens to be against the law. )
People who buy areas (ie, crowns player) don't get double animus nor free second chances from those areas, which were paid for with real money. Those free second chances is like winning something for free because it was paid for. Same when you consider free fishing in areas paid for, when that free fishing results in better odds of getting rare fish or items from chests, only because of being a member.

As for the legality, when it comes to 'raffles' and such, it's not like it's a set number of winners (and prizes), and members are getting better odds of being winners in the end. That would be rigging a contest, which is illegal. However, in this scenario, everyone who tries could potentially win the epic content, vs entries for a drawing. Even when it's a drawing, depending on the situation, getting bonus chances because of being a member of something (in general) could be perfectly legal. A few years back, I came across a lawyer that specializes in such things and they informed me that there are ways to hold drawings where certain groups get extra chances of winning without it being illegal. In short, it depends on the circumstances and the rules set forth for such things. The packs aren't players competing against one another, so I don't see how it would qualify.

Geographer
Mar 16, 2012
815
Fangs McWolf on Feb 4, 2019 wrote:
People who buy areas (ie, crowns player) don't get double animus nor free second chances from those areas, which were paid for with real money. Those free second chances is like winning something for free because it was paid for. Same when you consider free fishing in areas paid for, when that free fishing results in better odds of getting rare fish or items from chests, only because of being a member.

As for the legality, when it comes to 'raffles' and such, it's not like it's a set number of winners (and prizes), and members are getting better odds of being winners in the end. That would be rigging a contest, which is illegal. However, in this scenario, everyone who tries could potentially win the epic content, vs entries for a drawing. Even when it's a drawing, depending on the situation, getting bonus chances because of being a member of something (in general) could be perfectly legal. A few years back, I came across a lawyer that specializes in such things and they informed me that there are ways to hold drawings where certain groups get extra chances of winning without it being illegal. In short, it depends on the circumstances and the rules set forth for such things. The packs aren't players competing against one another, so I don't see how it would qualify.
Laws affecting gambling is what I was thinking of, not sweepstakes. Making sure that roulette tables aren't rigged or the dealer isn't doing any tricky dealing, for example.
True, that crowns players don't get those member bonuses, because you have to be a member & not just spending money.
Notice that all those benefits offered now don't require you to spend crowns outside of membership? I can still fish and my chances of getting a rare fish is the same as a member - the chances haven't been rigged to favor the member over a crowns player.

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2015
anecorbie on Feb 5, 2019 wrote:
Laws affecting gambling is what I was thinking of, not sweepstakes. Making sure that roulette tables aren't rigged or the dealer isn't doing any tricky dealing, for example.
True, that crowns players don't get those member bonuses, because you have to be a member & not just spending money.
Notice that all those benefits offered now don't require you to spend crowns outside of membership? I can still fish and my chances of getting a rare fish is the same as a member - the chances haven't been rigged to favor the member over a crowns player.
Under US Law packs are not considered gambling and are therefore not subject to gaming legislation (gambling laws). How loot boxes are considered by various Gaming Commissions around the world varies, but even for most of those that do consider them gambling, they are only seen as such if there is an ability to trade items between players. This is likely the reason (or at least, one of the reasons) why KI have stipulated they will never extend the trade system and never allow trading of ingame items beyond treasure cards.

I could yak on all day about the various Gaming Commissions, Gambling legislation in different places and how it pertains to loot boxes, packs, trading, children, psychology blah blah blah...but it would just bore you so I won't lol

The thread's an idea for a new member benefit. It wouldn't be illegal but I do think it would cause unnecessary friction and negativity. I think they'd do better to stick to less controversial benefits where the value is more clearly defined and tangible...let's all try to come up with some more ideas together

Delver
Aug 21, 2013
228
anecorbie on Feb 5, 2019 wrote:
Laws affecting gambling is what I was thinking of, not sweepstakes. Making sure that roulette tables aren't rigged or the dealer isn't doing any tricky dealing, for example.
True, that crowns players don't get those member bonuses, because you have to be a member & not just spending money.
Notice that all those benefits offered now don't require you to spend crowns outside of membership? I can still fish and my chances of getting a rare fish is the same as a member - the chances haven't been rigged to favor the member over a crowns player.
That comes into play when the reward is cash, and also when competing against others. Also, the prevention of rigging et al is to protect the players from the house, and players from other players.

As a member, free second chances are the equivalent of gambling. Members paid money to be members, and now have a free second chance at loot. Same with free fishing, because they can keep fishing and get chests which may contain rare items, while non members have to pay (for energy elixirs) to get that same chance.

Anyways, I made a suggestion which I believe would be a great addition to the game. I'm quite sure that if K.I. looked to make it happen, they would make sure that it is fully legal first. So instead of shooting down a great idea that you think might be illegal, what about endorsing it or providing alternatives to help it be something you think would work, and let K.I. figure out if it's legal or not later on (if they even consider the idea that is)?

Geographer
Mar 16, 2012
815
Fangs McWolf on Feb 6, 2019 wrote:
That comes into play when the reward is cash, and also when competing against others. Also, the prevention of rigging et al is to protect the players from the house, and players from other players.

As a member, free second chances are the equivalent of gambling. Members paid money to be members, and now have a free second chance at loot. Same with free fishing, because they can keep fishing and get chests which may contain rare items, while non members have to pay (for energy elixirs) to get that same chance.

Anyways, I made a suggestion which I believe would be a great addition to the game. I'm quite sure that if K.I. looked to make it happen, they would make sure that it is fully legal first. So instead of shooting down a great idea that you think might be illegal, what about endorsing it or providing alternatives to help it be something you think would work, and let K.I. figure out if it's legal or not later on (if they even consider the idea that is)?
First thing: I don't agree that it's a "great idea", in fact, I think it's a totally bad one. It IS basically unfair to suggest that members should have a better chance at a loot roll from packs.

When a benefit for a Free Second Chance Chest is offered it is for only one free chest, not 10 or whatever number wanted, just one.. Plus they're not rigging those chests to enhance drop luck.

I fish and I get chests and I have the same chance ( within Energy limit ), even if I'm F2P. I can buy potions to enhance my luck in fishing as anyone with crowns can; member or non-member, it may take me longer to get those fish, but KI isn't limiting my chance to get them.
Maybe you should consider other players before suggesting an unfair system.

Geographer
Mar 16, 2012
815
You want a better suggestion? Try this: during one of the pack sales ( 50% off ), members get an extra 10% off pack buying. This is fair without being too much and doesn't effect the RNG.

Delver
Aug 21, 2013
228
anecorbie on Feb 7, 2019 wrote:
First thing: I don't agree that it's a "great idea", in fact, I think it's a totally bad one. It IS basically unfair to suggest that members should have a better chance at a loot roll from packs.

When a benefit for a Free Second Chance Chest is offered it is for only one free chest, not 10 or whatever number wanted, just one.. Plus they're not rigging those chests to enhance drop luck.

I fish and I get chests and I have the same chance ( within Energy limit ), even if I'm F2P. I can buy potions to enhance my luck in fishing as anyone with crowns can; member or non-member, it may take me longer to get those fish, but KI isn't limiting my chance to get them.
Maybe you should consider other players before suggesting an unfair system.
I fish and I get chests and I have the same chance ( within Energy limit ), even if I'm F2P. I can buy potions to enhance my luck in fishing as anyone with crowns can; member or non-member, it may take me longer to get those fish, but KI isn't limiting my chance to get them.
During free fishing periods, from the moment it starts until it ends, without buying energy potions, crowns players are limited to how much fishing they can do and, as a result, are limited to their chances of 'winning' any special loot. In order to get those same chances, money has to be spent on energy elixirs. To use the gambling argument, it is a form of gambling and members are getting free extra chances to win.

Maybe you should consider other players before suggesting an unfair system.
I'm usually a crowns player myself, but due to the Christmas discount, I bought a one year membership, primarily to focus on gardening. After that year is up, I'm more than likely going to be a crowns player again, meaning I won't get member benefits, not even one such as this. So trust me, I am considering other players. My suggestion is aimed at giving members another thing to look forward to.

You want a better suggestion? Try this: during one of the pack sales ( 50% off ), members get an extra 10% off pack buying. This is fair without being too much and doesn't effect the RNG.
So, charging one fee to one set of people but a different fee to a different set of people, all for the same gambling game? Sounds questionable.

Okay, being serious, that wouldn't be a bad benefit. If it were possible, without breaking the current system, I'd actually suggest one or two bonus items per pack. However, it looks like it's set up to be a maximum of seven, even when it's a pack that gives less than seven, so that wouldn't work.

Note:
I only point out the gambling aspect because it's used as an argument against my idea. However, there are other things that are already available that would also be considered gambling when put into the same perspective.

I understand that you dislike my idea, but please don't compare it to gambling. That is opening a can of worms because other aspects of the game can be claimed to be gambling, and that certain other member benefits violate gambling laws. Keep in mind that membership costs money, so member benefits are 'paid for' bonuses. Not saying that certain benefits should be removed, just that it's dangerous to start comparing things to gambling.

Defender
Jun 03, 2017
163
anecorbie on Feb 7, 2019 wrote:
You want a better suggestion? Try this: during one of the pack sales ( 50% off ), members get an extra 10% off pack buying. This is fair without being too much and doesn't effect the RNG.
I like this idea! Except more like 25% off.