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Feint Bug

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
So I don't know the extent of this bug yet since I haven't had time to test it, but I noticed this morning the following issue: I cast a feint on a black tusk cultist, then he cast a feint on me. When the other cultist hit me, it only triggered the +70% and not the +30% that my feint left on me. The same thing happened when I hit the cultist I put my feint on, it triggered only the +30% that his feint had put on him, and not my +70%. I have no idea at the moment if it only affects feint or if there is a general bug with trap processing, nor do I have any idea when this started... but I wanted to get this out there as it is a pretty significant issue. Anyone else having this problem?

Survivor
Oct 18, 2010
16
This is completely normal. The 30% and the 70% both count as feint. This means the last feint casted will only be triggered. After all if 2 storm traps are played, not both storm traps are triggered right? This is like the same thing. :P

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
quets9 wrote:
This is completely normal. The 30% and the 70% both count as feint. This means the last feint casted will only be triggered. After all if 2 storm traps are played, not both storm traps are triggered right? This is like the same thing. :P


But its never worked like this before... take this scenario:

I cast a feint on my opponent which does this:

+30% trap on me, +70% trap on opponent

My opponent casts a feint on me and now we're at:

+30% & +70% trap on me, +70% & +30% trap on opponent

I attack my opponent and in the past this happens:

The 30% activates and the +70% activates giving an effective boost of 121% to my attack. That has always been the danger of casting feint.

What is currently happening is:

only the +30% activates. I have to hit him again to trigger the initial +70%.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2081
Yes, this has been happening a lot lately with mobs and bosses that cast feint!

This does not happen in PvP, but it does happen in PvE, not sure why!

Archon
Oct 24, 2010
4933
Delver
Feb 16, 2010
235
quets9 wrote:
This is completely normal. The 30% and the 70% both count as feint. This means the last feint casted will only be triggered. After all if 2 storm traps are played, not both storm traps are triggered right? This is like the same thing. :P


No this is not normal. A +30 and a +70 have always been treated as different traps and should be. You can place 2 storm traps, a +30 and a +35 and have both be taken as well, at least in normal play. I have seen this bug too, but I'm not sure when it started.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2081
Aritako wrote:
quets9 wrote:
This is completely normal. The 30% and the 70% both count as feint. This means the last feint casted will only be triggered. After all if 2 storm traps are played, not both storm traps are triggered right? This is like the same thing. :P


No this is not normal. A +30 and a +70 have always been treated as different traps and should be. You can place 2 storm traps, a +30 and a +35 and have both be taken as well, at least in normal play. I have seen this bug too, but I'm not sure when it started.


It started with the Death Boss in the Stormriven Pylons. I think I made a post about this then, but I don't think KI reads every post or bug issue that we tell them about, because many are still not fixed!

Historian
May 01, 2010
665
Remember this, first one, last off. If anyone has tried to max with converts they know what I am talking about. The first trap you place will be the last to be taken off, otherwise, there would be no way to organize traps. Also, if you are myth, this solves partly the problem with feints, saying the first swing of minotaur's axe will hit the 30%, while the second the 70%. I also used this in pvp, against a myth, and he feinted, so I retaliated with two feints on top of his (to bury it), he got annoyed and confused when his medusa hit only the 30%, so he tried to earthquake to get the feint with that, and ended up destroying his feint LOL

A+ Student
Feb 25, 2009
1527
quets9 wrote:
This is completely normal. The 30% and the 70% both count as feint. This means the last feint casted will only be triggered. After all if 2 storm traps are played, not both storm traps are triggered right? This is like the same thing. :P


No it is not normal. I have been in the same situation and it did not happen this way. Both were triggered.

Also, your trap scenario is not exactly correct either. The only time it happens in that fashion is if you use 2 totally single traps. If you use a single storm trap, windstorm and the balance version of storm, fire, and ice, the attack will trigger all 3 storm traps on one hit

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
slammer111 wrote:
Remember this, first one, last off. If anyone has tried to max with converts they know what I am talking about. The first trap you place will be the last to be taken off, otherwise, there would be no way to organize traps. Also, if you are myth, this solves partly the problem with feints, saying the first swing of minotaur's axe will hit the 30%, while the second the 70%. I also used this in pvp, against a myth, and he feinted, so I retaliated with two feints on top of his (to bury it), he got annoyed and confused when his medusa hit only the 30%, so he tried to earthquake to get the feint with that, and ended up destroying his feint LOL


Yes, and you used to be able to use cleanse ward to remove the 30% from yourself. Both of these things changed. This is precisely why any player who has been around for a while and who pays any attention to how the system works gets frustrated with KI. They randomly change processing order and alter how things work. The system has changed for various wards (both positive and negative) at least 5 times that I can think of, and likely more. That's ridiculous. It may currently be handy for double strike myth hits, but that isn't the way it has been working for at least the past year. Since there was no announcement of the change (such as with earthquake and stun shields) I have to assume its a bug... hence this post.

Explorer
Jan 29, 2009
75
No, it is not working right.

Re-cap, when one casts feint, it puts 70% on their opponent but the caster is penalized for this powerful buff by getting a 30% on them.

If the enemy then casts a feint on you, you get that 70%+30% additional damage versus just a 70% if you didn't cast the feint.

Different types of shields stacked on an opponent act to increase the damage on said opponent. That's why you see these 10 million plus one-hit kills. Since the 70% and 30% are different buffs, then they should both contribute to the damage. Therefore, both should be activated by a successful attack, not just the last shield.

By the logic of some, only the last shield laid down should count and all others don't. If that becomes the case, it would be useless to cast (either by spellbook or treasure card) all the different shields on a boss since only one counts.

This is a bug and a feedback ticket should be submitted accordingly.

Historian
May 01, 2010
665
gtarhannon wrote:
slammer111 wrote:
Remember this, first one, last off. If anyone has tried to max with converts they know what I am talking about. The first trap you place will be the last to be taken off, otherwise, there would be no way to organize traps. Also, if you are myth, this solves partly the problem with feints, saying the first swing of minotaur's axe will hit the 30%, while the second the 70%. I also used this in pvp, against a myth, and he feinted, so I retaliated with two feints on top of his (to bury it), he got annoyed and confused when his medusa hit only the 30%, so he tried to earthquake to get the feint with that, and ended up destroying his feint LOL


Yes, and you used to be able to use cleanse ward to remove the 30% from yourself. Both of these things changed. This is precisely why any player who has been around for a while and who pays any attention to how the system works gets frustrated with KI. They randomly change processing order and alter how things work. The system has changed for various wards (both positive and negative) at least 5 times that I can think of, and likely more. That's ridiculous. It may currently be handy for double strike myth hits, but that isn't the way it has been working for at least the past year. Since there was no announcement of the change (such as with earthquake and stun shields) I have to assume its a bug... hence this post.


I thought shields were always this way (was a while after I started before I really started understanding them...so that may be it), for the example that you brought up, then I think they had mentioned that before (having a flashback to someone trying to cleanse a feint off me, one of the few times I used it on my life [I actually think the first] and me trying to warn her, so I assume they had announced it), but...I have been known to "hallucinate" update notes (I could have sworn I saw in an update note that they level capped some spells, but I couldnt find it months later)...Anyway, back onto topic, for the time being, on death mobs, just use treasure feints, amulet feints (amulet of agony [56+] and amulet of fenting [level 50+] I believe give it) or pet feints, so they are GARUNTEED to trigger.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
slammer111 wrote:
I thought shields were always this way (was a while after I started before I really started understanding them...so that may be it), for the example that you brought up, then I think they had mentioned that before (having a flashback to someone trying to cleanse a feint off me, one of the few times I used it on my life [I actually think the first] and me trying to warn her, so I assume they had announced it), but...I have been known to "hallucinate" update notes (I could have sworn I saw in an update note that they level capped some spells, but I couldnt find it months later)...Anyway, back onto topic, for the time being, on death mobs, just use treasure feints, amulet feints (amulet of agony [56+] and amulet of fenting [level 50+] I believe give it) or pet feints, so they are GARUNTEED to trigger.


I appreciate the feedback. Just an FYI, I tried out cleanse ward on the 30% left on you from a feint late yesterday and it works again. *sigh* This is exactly what I'm talking about with KI. I understand visual effect glitches and whatnot (because they are largely hardware dependent), but why the heck is it so hard to keep ward and charm processing consistent? That bit is simple math and elevator programming (first in last out for those that don't know what I'm referring to).

I realize this thread was to talk about the current issue with feint, but it goes back to another thread I made some time ago criticizing KI's attention to bugs. Why do people like myself waste so much time submitting bug reports and suggestions in test realm if they aren't going to make sure that the bugs are corrected before it goes live? I don't really care that much about early access because you don't really get anything for your time other than contributing to quality control (particularly when they are going to continue to limit crowns). If they aren't even going to finish fixing bugs before going live, what is my incentive to have to do everything twice?

Please wake up KI. I used to see my old friends whenever test realm came out, but more and more of them are just plain disappearing. These were all people that at one time or another proclaimed "I love this game!". I used to chime in. I don't so much anymore. You seriously need to improve your quality control because this kind of thing is just ridiculous.

Defender
Jan 20, 2010
108
i've done some experimenting and i think this IS a bug. The reason i say that is, i've only gotten this effect to happen with the Feint taught in the death school. I haven't had it happen with Feint treasure cards, my pets Feinting Spell card, or the Feint item card given by the lvl 50 prestigious attire.

Seeing as how only one version of the spell is effected, that screams bug to me.

Armiger
Mar 18, 2009
2381
Maybe before when they weren't added together, was the bug. Now, they have fixed it ????

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
kingurz wrote:
Maybe before when they weren't added together, was the bug. Now, they have fixed it ????


Maybe. Its hard to tell since apparently KI feels that explaining how their game system is "supposed" to work is tantamount to a "spoiler" and will therefore never divulge details in these forums. Sure is annoying that it keeps changing though.