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Fairness Issue

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 03, 2011
25
I know I've made this clear in a few of my posts: fairness plays a very large role in online games like w101. Don't get me wrong, there are some aspects of this game that are based on chance-- like accuracy and power pips for example, no complaints there. But I feel that getting rare drops from bosses (namely Hades) are by far the lowest on the fairness scale (with defeat and collect quests at a close second). I'll address defeat and collect quests first. Here's a scenario: you and a friend are collecting an item from an enemy and your friend gets the item but you don't. It takes you several tries and thus tips the fairness scales. So KI, if you want to make a defeat and collect quest that takes 10 tries to get the item, make sure this is the same for EVERYONE, not just those unlucky soles (like myself). The very same goes for rare drops from bosses-- I'll use Hades in Tartarus as an example. I heard that there was a person that got their full set of hades gear on their FIRST try! Of course I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes, but it was true. I've done Tartarus several times on my death and balance characters now (and by several I mean over 10 times) and I've only ever gotten one piece of the armor that I wanted on my balance. As for my poor death, the only armor I've received from hades is the wand. I do not think that boss drops are in the same category of chance as accuracy or power pips and something should be done about it to make it fair for EVERYONE.

Squire
Sep 07, 2011
596
How would you make a chance event more fair? Everyone has the same odds. It's like a roll of dice.

And if someone got all the good "real" Hades gear in one run that is crazy-beyond-reason lucky, so certainly not something to expect.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
Lightning76543 on Jan 8, 2014 wrote:
I know I've made this clear in a few of my posts: fairness plays a very large role in online games like w101. Don't get me wrong, there are some aspects of this game that are based on chance-- like accuracy and power pips for example, no complaints there. But I feel that getting rare drops from bosses (namely Hades) are by far the lowest on the fairness scale (with defeat and collect quests at a close second). I'll address defeat and collect quests first. Here's a scenario: you and a friend are collecting an item from an enemy and your friend gets the item but you don't. It takes you several tries and thus tips the fairness scales. So KI, if you want to make a defeat and collect quest that takes 10 tries to get the item, make sure this is the same for EVERYONE, not just those unlucky soles (like myself). The very same goes for rare drops from bosses-- I'll use Hades in Tartarus as an example. I heard that there was a person that got their full set of hades gear on their FIRST try! Of course I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes, but it was true. I've done Tartarus several times on my death and balance characters now (and by several I mean over 10 times) and I've only ever gotten one piece of the armor that I wanted on my balance. As for my poor death, the only armor I've received from hades is the wand. I do not think that boss drops are in the same category of chance as accuracy or power pips and something should be done about it to make it fair for EVERYONE.
I totally agree with your post and have stated the same several times on this board. Where has the fairness gone?

Apparently more people believe something isn't worth having unless they repeatedly try for it and then one day finally get it. Long, boring, robotic, dungeons. Totally the same as a defeat and collect quest. Those who get what they want in few tries see nothing wrong with farming.

I really don't understand why gear has to be held hostage like this? What is the harm in having more wizards playing in upper worlds because they are able to get the gear to do it? Up until level 58 I can buy gear at the Bazaar from there on I am cut loose to fend for my self on getting decent gear.

Mary

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4117
Lightning76543 on Jan 8, 2014 wrote:
I know I've made this clear in a few of my posts: fairness plays a very large role in online games like w101. Don't get me wrong, there are some aspects of this game that are based on chance-- like accuracy and power pips for example, no complaints there. But I feel that getting rare drops from bosses (namely Hades) are by far the lowest on the fairness scale (with defeat and collect quests at a close second). I'll address defeat and collect quests first. Here's a scenario: you and a friend are collecting an item from an enemy and your friend gets the item but you don't. It takes you several tries and thus tips the fairness scales. So KI, if you want to make a defeat and collect quest that takes 10 tries to get the item, make sure this is the same for EVERYONE, not just those unlucky soles (like myself). The very same goes for rare drops from bosses-- I'll use Hades in Tartarus as an example. I heard that there was a person that got their full set of hades gear on their FIRST try! Of course I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes, but it was true. I've done Tartarus several times on my death and balance characters now (and by several I mean over 10 times) and I've only ever gotten one piece of the armor that I wanted on my balance. As for my poor death, the only armor I've received from hades is the wand. I do not think that boss drops are in the same category of chance as accuracy or power pips and something should be done about it to make it fair for EVERYONE.
10 times isn't exactly a lot of tries. It's RARE. Making it so everyone who walks through the door wins the lottery no longer makes it RARE. Is it fair? YES it's perfectly fair, the more you play the better your chances. The claims of getting all the gear first try are very dubious claims. Considering one boss drops them I highly doubt anyone got 3 pieces of gear in one battle, especially all from the same set. I've run Hades 1000's of times and have all the sets for my Storm and I've never seen more than one piece drop in a single battle.

Getting the wand or one piece in 10 tries is pretty good odds, so you really should count yourself lucky. Drops are fair to everyone the way they are. How is it that you think it would be fair for you to get everything with no effort when others have worked very hard to get all their stuff?

Survivor
Dec 27, 2011
44
Lightning76543 on Jan 8, 2014 wrote:
I know I've made this clear in a few of my posts: fairness plays a very large role in online games like w101. Don't get me wrong, there are some aspects of this game that are based on chance-- like accuracy and power pips for example, no complaints there. But I feel that getting rare drops from bosses (namely Hades) are by far the lowest on the fairness scale (with defeat and collect quests at a close second). I'll address defeat and collect quests first. Here's a scenario: you and a friend are collecting an item from an enemy and your friend gets the item but you don't. It takes you several tries and thus tips the fairness scales. So KI, if you want to make a defeat and collect quest that takes 10 tries to get the item, make sure this is the same for EVERYONE, not just those unlucky soles (like myself). The very same goes for rare drops from bosses-- I'll use Hades in Tartarus as an example. I heard that there was a person that got their full set of hades gear on their FIRST try! Of course I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes, but it was true. I've done Tartarus several times on my death and balance characters now (and by several I mean over 10 times) and I've only ever gotten one piece of the armor that I wanted on my balance. As for my poor death, the only armor I've received from hades is the wand. I do not think that boss drops are in the same category of chance as accuracy or power pips and something should be done about it to make it fair for EVERYONE.
I totally agree with you. However, I believe KI makes their drops based on chance, and not how many tries. The same goes for me. If anything, I think Kingsisle should add a potion into the game which adds the chance of drops. Even better, it would be nice if they upped the drop rate, if only as a special for several days. Likewise, there's not much us players can do, other than cross our fingers and hope for the best.

Survivor
May 04, 2013
2
Survivor
Jun 21, 2009
7
I also agree with the inequity or unfairness in some cases. The fizzle rate is out of control. and if I have earned the pips necessary to use a spell, why is it fizzed? The opponents have increased in resistance and hit power however we have not increased in healing power of the Sprites and fairies..not entirely fair would you say? Have played this game since the inception and love it. just needs to have some equality to it.

Explorer
Jun 12, 2011
79
I agree with the original post.

Have any of you guys ever looked at someone's gear and wondered how s/he ever made it to level 90? People wonder why they can't find competent help at the upper levels, or why so many people have left the game of late. Put simply, it's because we are expected to survive this crazy jump in difficulty but are not given the tools to effectively do so, without wasting stupid amounts of money and time.

My balance wizard has run Tartarus more than 50 times and has only ever received one piece of gear. With odds like that, it's no wonder people give up. I'm an adult and I, like most people over the age of 10, have work/school, family and social obligations: I simply don't have hours upon hours to waste, trying to get gear that is so rare I likely won't see it for another 10 levels; that is, if I ever get it at all.

-v.

Mastermind
Jun 27, 2013
302
If your complaint was about bosses who only shield after you've set an attack, or fizzling just in time for an enemy to stun you or dispell you...
I'd have said I agree with the unfairness...
Even though it's an A I thing, not an actual attack on fairness...lol

However, you've complained that after 10 WHOLE TRIES, you didn't recieve your Hades Gear.
And people are agreeing, since the gear in game isn't raising to the level of difficulty...
Wow... Just Wow...

I'm a LvL 95 Death mage.
I've Solo'd almost the entire game, except where friends jumped in uninvited.
I'm still in full WaterWorks gear, because I don't want to give up universal defense and Death Attack for a higher chance of Crit/Crit Block that the Hades Gear Offers.
It took me almost a month to gather all 3 pieces of WW Gear.

Now, I've fought Hades over 100 times, and only gotten the Wand... and only once.
I'm OK with that.
I fought Cronus about 200 times before I got the Blade of the felled titan, and the Gladiator almost a thousand, and still have not gotten the Alpha and Omega, though I have a friend who has 6 in 30 fights.

Random is Random...
It's completely fair....

Some of you are complaining about the gear not matching the difficulty...
I'm still in my LvL 60 gear, as I've stated, and I solo'd the game with only minor issues on 2 bosses overall....

Some of you talk about how the people who didn't have to work for their drops, or got them right off the bat don't think it's unfair??
I've had to farm bosses and dungeons hundreds or thousands of times to get what I want.
My advice
Stop wanting
Or keep Farming

Squire
Jan 21, 2010
506
Sarg042 on Jan 21, 2014 wrote:
If your complaint was about bosses who only shield after you've set an attack, or fizzling just in time for an enemy to stun you or dispell you...
I'd have said I agree with the unfairness...
Even though it's an A I thing, not an actual attack on fairness...lol

However, you've complained that after 10 WHOLE TRIES, you didn't recieve your Hades Gear.
And people are agreeing, since the gear in game isn't raising to the level of difficulty...
Wow... Just Wow...

I'm a LvL 95 Death mage.
I've Solo'd almost the entire game, except where friends jumped in uninvited.
I'm still in full WaterWorks gear, because I don't want to give up universal defense and Death Attack for a higher chance of Crit/Crit Block that the Hades Gear Offers.
It took me almost a month to gather all 3 pieces of WW Gear.

Now, I've fought Hades over 100 times, and only gotten the Wand... and only once.
I'm OK with that.
I fought Cronus about 200 times before I got the Blade of the felled titan, and the Gladiator almost a thousand, and still have not gotten the Alpha and Omega, though I have a friend who has 6 in 30 fights.

Random is Random...
It's completely fair....

Some of you are complaining about the gear not matching the difficulty...
I'm still in my LvL 60 gear, as I've stated, and I solo'd the game with only minor issues on 2 bosses overall....

Some of you talk about how the people who didn't have to work for their drops, or got them right off the bat don't think it's unfair??
I've had to farm bosses and dungeons hundreds or thousands of times to get what I want.
My advice
Stop wanting
Or keep Farming
You, I like you, lets be friends.

I agree with you.

Chance is utterly fair, it doesn't care who you are, or how many times you have tried in the past. You cannot bribe, or threaten chance, there is absolutely no way to influence pure chance. Some players will drop gear the first try, others will literally never drop a specific piece of gear.

What Op wants to do is have KI eliminate the chance aspect. If they did that, you can be certain that bosses would stop dropping crown items. They would also take away the boss chest after the battle. In such a system everyone could fight a boss a set number of times and get everything the boss had to offer.

In the current set up a player who plays twenty hours a week, and a player who only plays five hours a week could farm the boss and still both get the item they want in two weeks, or ten weeks, or one day, or never.

If you switch to a non chance system, the twenty hour player will always gets the drops before the five hour player. If Op really wanted it to be fair to everyone, then casual players should have the same chance to get the item as the hardcore players. Op doesn't want a fair drop system though, Op wants a guaranteed drop system.

Op implies that fair, is everyone getting what they want eventually. Fairness is actually everyone being treated equally. In the current system a player who plays twelve hours a day, and a player who plays one hour a day can get the same drop farming the same number of days, they are being treated equally. If pure chance weren't used, then those who spent more time playing would have a clear advantage in obtaining equipment over casual gamers.

Mastermind
Jun 27, 2013
302
Zeb, I like the way you broadened on my thoughts.

I agree, I like me too...lol

Friends it is