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Different realms for different types of chat

AuthorMessage
Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Some players have access to text chat, which while limited, is at least functional. Some only have access to menu chat, which basically means that they can't meaningfully communicate. The problem isn't that there are the latter type of players; it's that they're stuck on the same realms as the former.

For someone with text chat, the people with only menu chat are often a nuisance. You can't tell them, attack this mob instead of that one, because they can't see it. You can't tell them go away and stop harassing me, because they can't see it. As far as grouping goes, the sensible thing to do is to avoid them as best as possible.

I haven't seen how this works out for the people who only have menu chat, but my guess is it isn't so great on that side, either, if a lot of players will do their best to ignore you and keep away from you.

The solution is to make chat permissions done by realm, rather than by account. Accounts without text chat permission would be restricted to the menu chat only realms. Accounts with text chat would be placed on text chat realms by default, but could manually switch if so inclined.

For those with text chat, that would mean that you could communicate with everyone you see. While other games have proven that just because everyone theoretically can read the chat doesn't mean that everyone will, this would mean you could communicate with a much higher percentage of players.

For those with menu chat only, this may well also make communication easier. From the perspective of one with text chat, I don't care to learn how to use menu chat. If the only way to communicate with someone is by menu chat, then for all practical purposes, I can't communicate with him. Menu chat only realms would thus have a higher percentage of players who know how to and are willing to use menu chat.

This isn't really so different from what many games do in having different realms for different languages. If some players speak only English and some speak only Korean, then both sides benefit from having English servers and Korean servers separate, rather than having both sets of players dumped into the same servers.

Survivor
Jan 17, 2009
3
I see and understand what you are saying, but what you are saying there, might split some families up... Some family (older memebrs) might have text chat, while some of the younger family memebrs might only have Menu chat...

and then they will not beable to play together...

why not make the family use all the same chat.. becasue sometimes they might play on there own or with people outside the family and need the 'other'/'mixed' chat to do so...

But you can see if people are using the Menu Only chat, and it realy isn't that hard to use the Menu chat, a coupl eof clicks and ya done...

I find that when chatting to someone with Text chat I will throw in a few menu chats just becasue it is quicker that typing the same thing....

I think having the mixed chats together is good..

imo


Explorer
Dec 11, 2008
83
I concur, add a realm for those with menu chat, or make text chat visible to them.

Defender
Dec 31, 2008
169
I disagree pretty strongly with this suggestion. One thing that sets this game apart from others on the web is that is purposely sets up an environment where people of different ages and stages can genuinely enjoy playing with each other. My experience is that menu chat allows quite a bit of communication for those who take the time to learn it, and that it could be improved and likely will be over time. Don't confuse not wanting to learn it (which is fine; play the parts of the game you enjoy) with assuming that other people are not communicating or playing with some sophistication when they do use it.

Many players with text chat do not avoid those with menu chat, but instead try to include them in the interaction by using the menu for some of their talk when a menu chat player is in their group. This spirit of cooperation is one thing I love about the community here and the kinds of people it attracts and supports. I also recognize that menu chat players who are levels above me have passed challenges I have not yet, and have something they could teach me if they will be patient with my sometimes clumsy attempts to use the idiom they are used to.

You may not enjoy playing with players who lack one of your abilities in the game, and that's certainly fine as preferences go. I sometimes grumble about players who don't carry any healing spells for their comrades, and I might have more fun if I didn't "have to" play with them. I expect we all have certain pet peeves like that. But I don't assume the overall game would be improved by having separate realms where my preferences or another's are the rule. I hope the Wizard101 staff will not divert resources from a wonderful mixed community to design, test and support additional realms (which soaks up time even if they have the same content) for people who want more homogeneity.

Respectfully,
Suri

Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Draxonfly wrote:
I see and understand what you are saying, but what you are saying there, might split some families up...


Players with text chat capabilities would be able to go to menu chat realms if they so wished. Families that wish to play together could readily do so on menu chat realms, even if they didn't wish to give the children access to text chat. Of course, they might also just end up talking to each other and not using the game chat system at all.

Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
susume wrote:
My experience is that menu chat allows quite a bit of communication for those who take the time to learn it, and that it could be improved and likely will be over time. Don't confuse not wanting to learn it (which is fine; play the parts of the game you enjoy) with assuming that other people are not communicating or playing with some sophistication when they do use it.


Fine then. How do I use menu chat to communicate something to the effect of "We need you to give the boss a whack to pull aggro, but otherwise we kill its escorts first"? How about "One of us should use single-target attacks on the far right target to draw its fire and kill it first, while the other uses an area attack to draw the fire of everything else. Which role do you prefer?" How do I use menu chat to explain that if you pass twice in a row, you're almost certainly doing something horribly wrong?

And that's assuming that there isn't anything in the game that is non-trivial to clear with a 2-man group. If there's anything complicated in the game (e.g., Dzagonur Bastion or Eternal Grove hard mode in Guild Wars) that would take ten minutes of explanation with unfiltered text chat, that will be completely hopeless to do with menu chat.

The problem is not that menu chat is badly designed. The problem is that it's impractical for game designers to anticipate all of the millions of messages that players could conceivably need to send. Even if they could, it would be impractical to make a menu system that allows players to actually find the message they want.

Survivor
Jan 13, 2009
18
The thing i find really annoying with chat is innocent words blocked out. Like I can't say "my computer is acting wonky" in the middle of batlle it is hard to come up with descriptive words when you're hard at work.

Survivor
Aug 09, 2008
7
This is a bad idea, I play this game with my children who are on menu chat limitations and have no problem. I say leave it the way it is.

Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Drivingmylifeaway wrote:
This is a bad idea, I play this game with my children who are on menu chat limitations and have no problem. I say leave it the way it is.


Do you have no way to communicate with your children apart from menu chat? That is, are you unable to talk in real life? Because that makes a huge difference.

Survivor
Dec 30, 2008
3
I agree that the current type of chat works great, however its very annoying that you can't type any numbers into the chat, or many other completely innocent words. Btw I play this game with my fiance and it gets pretty difficult to say what you need to at times.

Charlotte

Survivor
Aug 09, 2008
7
Quizzical wrote:
Drivingmylifeaway wrote:
This is a bad idea, I play this game with my children who are on menu chat limitations and have no problem. I say leave it the way it is.


Do you have no way to communicate with your children apart from menu chat? That is, are you unable to talk in real life? Because that makes a huge difference.


Let me draw you the picture. I play Wizard 101 with my two children. I am an adult. I have a six year old and a ten year old that I play Wizard 101 with. I, the adult, have text chat. My six year old has quick chat. My ten year old I have granted parental permission for text chat because he can read. My six year old is still learning to read. So we all play the game together in this manner. I am sure there are many other families doing the same thing. Do you get this?

Survivor
Dec 21, 2008
2
Drivingmylifeaway wrote:
Quizzical wrote:
Drivingmylifeaway wrote:
This is a bad idea, I play this game with my children who are on menu chat limitations and have no problem. I say leave it the way it is.


Do you have no way to communicate with your children apart from menu chat? That is, are you unable to talk in real life? Because that makes a huge difference.


Let me draw you the picture. I play Wizard 101 with my two children. I am an adult. I have a six year old and a ten year old that I play Wizard 101 with. I, the adult, have text chat. My six year old has quick chat. My ten year old I have granted parental permission for text chat because he can read. My six year old is still learning to read. So we all play the game together in this manner. I am sure there are many other families doing the same thing. Do you get this?


i believe the question was, "do you talk to your children out of game as you play?" if so your ability to play is a bit easier than if you are working only off the chat approved menu.

i dont even really mind the restricted words for typing that much but trying to work with people with the menu only chat is a bit difficult. i have to admit my vocabulary is even getting a but stranger since i am using words i would normally not.

my only suggestion would be for some sort of voice system. but make it only accesible to those that get friend codes or something like that. to keep the game still up to the parental control standards it has kept since starting.
when the friend code for voice is entered it would have to get approved by and email being sent to the parents account asking for approval. then you could have friends playing after school and such, or families that live a distance away can talk through the quests.

Squire
Dec 02, 2008
543
Drivingmylifeaway wrote:
Quizzical wrote:
Drivingmylifeaway wrote:
This is a bad idea, I play this game with my children who are on menu chat limitations and have no problem. I say leave it the way it is.


Do you have no way to communicate with your children apart from menu chat? That is, are you unable to talk in real life? Because that makes a huge difference.


Let me draw you the picture. I play Wizard 101 with my two children. I am an adult. I have a six year old and a ten year old that I play Wizard 101 with. I, the adult, have text chat. My six year old has quick chat. My ten year old I have granted parental permission for text chat because he can read. My six year old is still learning to read. So we all play the game together in this manner. I am sure there are many other families doing the same thing. Do you get this?


Don't quote the question only to ignore it. When you play this game with your children, do you have means to communicate with them outside of the game? For example, are you physically in the same house as them?

Because if so, then your circumstances are immaterial to the question at hand. That a relative handful of players have no need to use in-game communications at all to communicate with the people with whom they play does not mean that a game should have no means of in-game communications at all. Indeed, the communication needs of such players are not relevant when designing a game's chat system, since they won't use it anyway.

The question is how best to allow players to communicate who have no other means apart from what the game provides.