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Changes to minions Please

1
AuthorMessage
Defender
Apr 24, 2009
124
Ok I know this subject has been touched upon several times. Having one of each Wizard and having all minions (except the Minotaur and the Spectral ones for Balance). I have made a list of what spells they cast and what spells they should be able to cast also. Now for one thing I will ask this question: Why do Bosses get smarter minions than we do? I mean the Boss minions should be on the same par as our own minions or vice versa. Now I think if Minions are meant to help out and be a distraction for us that they need to be able to last more than being one shoted by the bad guys. All minions should I think have at least 1000 hp each so they can last longer in battle and take more damage for US. Now I will post the minion and each spell I have seen them do and which spells they should be able to do. If there are any spells that you have seen a minion do that I have not please let me know. Here is the list:

Fire Elemental: Fire Blade, Fire Shield, Fire Trap, Fire Cat, Fire Elf
Should be able to also cast: Sun Bird, Heck Hound and more shields, possible Fire Cobra and Fire Bats

Water Elemental: Taunt, Shields
Should be able to also cast: Thunder Snake, Lightning Bats, Storm Shark, Storm Blade, Storm Trap, possible Storm Snowman and Storm Elf

Ice Elemental: Storm Shark (havent seen much of anything else)
Should be able to also cast: Ice Blade, Ice Trap, Shields, Taunt or Distract, Ice Wyvern, Evil Snowman, Snow Serpent,Possible Ice Cobra, Ice Elf

Mander Minion: Bascially he does what he is suppose to do just should be able to cast Helping Hands also and Sand Storm.

Spectral Minions: The same as the Elementals above (As I have seen from other Balance Wizards)

Life Minion: Basically does what she is suppose to do except she does heal herself more often than she should. Should be able to cast Satyr and Seraph and Lerperchaun also.

Death Minion: Basically Does what they are suppose to do but does not give you any blades or shields.

Myth Minions: Cyclops, Does what he is suppose to do but should have more health. Minotaur, I understand casts Taunt and that is about it. In legend a Minotaur should be considered a tank and take lots of Damage and does lots of damage also. He needs to be able to cast Myth Spells also and have more health to be able to be a tank.

I think that if changes were made to the minions that people would probably use their minions more, like the Time of Legend, Wyldfire, etc. spells that the pip count was brought down and now people are using them more. I was working with a friend in Big Ben that was level 42 and I asked him why he doesnt pull out his minion and he told me that he doesnt like them due to the fact that they dont help that much and he was a Pyromancer too. How many people agree with me if they made changes to the AI to the minions taht you would use them more?

Survivor
Jan 24, 2009
38
I really dont want any changes to at least the Water Elemental ( Though maybe he shouldnt cast ghoul at all. You forgot that he can cast that. ) I like my water elemental because he stops me from taking damage that I dont want to take. I admit its weird some minions dont cast attacking spells but if you think about it your minions are just casting other minions to attack. Kinda weird huh?

Defender
Apr 24, 2009
124
quizzer90 wrote:
I really dont want any changes to at least the Water Elemental ( Though maybe he shouldnt cast ghoul at all. You forgot that he can cast that. ) I like my water elemental because he stops me from taking damage that I dont want to take. I admit its weird some minions dont cast attacking spells but if you think about it your minions are just casting other minions to attack. Kinda weird huh?


The main thing is that if the bosses minions can cast high level spells, why cant our minions? I still think they need to up the hit points also because at the higher levels if your minion gets the bosses attention than they can easily one shot it and if you dont have a friend on the same time you are and you need help then sometimes you need to rely on your minion for help.

Survivor
Dec 27, 2008
18
moviebuff3000 wrote:
quizzer90 wrote:
I really dont want any changes to at least the Water Elemental ( Though maybe he shouldnt cast ghoul at all. You forgot that he can cast that. ) I like my water elemental because he stops me from taking damage that I dont want to take. I admit its weird some minions dont cast attacking spells but if you think about it your minions are just casting other minions to attack. Kinda weird huh?


The main thing is that if the bosses minions can cast high level spells, why cant our minions? I still think they need to up the hit points also because at the higher levels if your minion gets the bosses attention than they can easily one shot it and if you dont have a friend on the same time you are and you need help then sometimes you need to rely on your minion for help.


I agree. I think my storm minion should be able to do more than taunt and cast shields. I don't count the ghoul because well it is rare and doesnt cover for the fact that he should be able to attack at least sometimes. I do like that he keeps them off me but not always. and while he has 15 shields around himself he could toss one my way now and then :) I allow that my life minion has to cast something to protect herself against possible future attacks but not when I am very damaged and lastly, I can not imagine why ice uses the shark all the time. Why doesn't he use ice attacks? It's really frustrating when you are fighting storm, although not as bad when we are fighting ice.


Geographer
Feb 14, 2009
835
they wont change it they are made the way they are in order to complement their masters'

Defender
May 15, 2009
193
moviebuff3000 wrote:
Why do Bosses get smarter minions than we do? I mean the Boss minions should be on the same par as our own minions or vice versa.

Based on what premise? Fighting an equally-gunned AI foe for a boss wouldn't be a challenge. Bosses should be superior foes for variety against the mundane.

moviebuff3000 wrote:
Now I think if Minions are meant to help out and be a distraction for us that they need to be able to last more than being one shoted by the bad guys.

I haven't had that problem so far (Storm and Death minions) but I haven't finished the game yet on either.

moviebuff3000 wrote:
All minions should I think have at least 1000 hp each so they can last longer in battle and take more damage for US.

That sounds less like a minion and more like a clone.

moviebuff3000 wrote:

Water Elemental: Taunt, Shields
Should be able to also cast: Thunder Snake, Lightning Bats, Storm Shark, Storm Blade, Storm Trap, possible Storm Snowman and Storm Elf

That will completely hose the Storm minion as well as game balance.
The purpose of the Water Elemental is to tank (take damage and survive) for the Storm wizard. This is why it also casts Spirit Armour (absorb 400 damage) and Ghoul (Take 160 health/heal 80 health) with its taunts and shields. It is not there to augment or assist with damage.

The Storm wizard doesn't need his damage augmented (he deals plenty); he also doesn't need to be targeted by foes and that is why the Water Elemental casts what it casts. This is perfect, for if the Water Elemental cast Storm damage spells, it would only interfere with the Storm Wizard's ability to deal effective, timed damage and it wouldn't tank very well.

moviebuff3000 wrote:

How many people agree with me if they made changes to the AI to the minions taht you would use them more?

"Changes to the AI" is one thing, but what you've proposed is a change to the minion's design, not to the Artificial Intelligence itself. I would agree that NPC AI (not just minions) could be improved by eliminating obvious flaws in it rather than drastic changes. I started a thread a day or two ago, but it hasn't been approved (I guess); it is titled "Flowers for Algernon". (mod: Any idea what happened to that thread?)


Survivor
Nov 25, 2008
16
I myself am a Storm wizard and I personally think all the other schools have nothing to complain about. My minion is great in the sense of getting the heat off me, but I am a grandmaster so I fight very high level enemies and it's almost just a waste of pips casting him. He doesn't last more then about four hits and then he wastes traps when he does ghoul. For a minion who's purpose is souly to take hits you would think he would have more hp then all other minions, shields against all schools NOT just elements and possibly be able to heal and share with his master! (that's the least they could do to make all things fair if he isn't going to attack)

Survivor
May 16, 2009
9
i really agree with the ice elemental on how it should use ice spells! i dont use my minion cause it doesnt have a lot of life and doesnt do enough damage! before when i first got it, i thought it was really cool until i used it when i was fighting bosses, it didnt help very much....i think the ice elemental should be able use shields on your wizard. Actually i've seen the ice elemental use fire elf but it usually fizzles...

once in a while when i need to i use my minion but i think there should be a change of the number of pips needed to cast the spell. since my ice minion has only 400 life and only uses fire elf and storm shark(the only spells i've seen) it should only need 1 or 2 pips to cast it.

the minions should gain ranks too....like every 4 lvls your wizard gains then your minion goes up 1 rank...i was fighting this one boss in mooshu(it was pretty hard) and it defeated my minion using the kraken! so they should at least increase the health like to 900 or maybe even 1000

since the bosses can use power pips maybe the minions could use power pips too?

Hero
May 02, 2009
787
Here is the list:

Fire Elemental: Fire Blade, Fire Shield, Fire Trap, Fire Cat, Fire Elf
Should be able to also cast: Sun Bird, Heck Hound and more shields, possible Fire Cobra and Fire Bats
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that fire elemental could use more attacks, like at least give him(and all other minions) a natural attack like the living puppet minion, he has a natural attack, so why not the other minions as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Water Elemental: Taunt, Shields
Should be able to also cast: Thunder Snake, Lightning Bats, Storm Shark, Storm Blade, Storm Trap, possible Storm Snowman and Storm Elf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not so sure about this one, but I do know that when he uses taunt, it will somtimes draw the enemies fire to him for protection. I also agree that if a minion is gonna cast shields, that they need to do it on the players as well and not just themselves or other minions that are in play on their team. A spirit shield would also be good for the water elemental to have.
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Ice Elemental: Storm Shark (havent seen much of anything else)
Should be able to also cast: Ice Blade, Ice Trap, Shields, Taunt or Distract, Ice Wyvern, Evil Snowman, Snow Serpent,Possible Ice Cobra, Ice Elf
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I haven't really seen very many Ice elementals or whatever thier called, so I wouldn't really know about him and/or how I would think that he needs.
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Mander Minion: Bascially he does what he is suppose to do just should be able to cast Helping Hands also and Sand Storm.
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Yeah, the helpful Mander could use those spells, though I think that he already casts sandstorm, or maybe that's judgement, but anyways, you get the idea.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spectral Minions: The same as the Elementals above (As I have seen from other Balance Wizards)
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Same as Ice minion.
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Life Minion: Basically does what she is suppose to do except she does heal herself more often than she should. Should be able to cast Satyr and Seraph and Lerperchaun also.
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Life minion needs to cast heal spells on the players more, especially when they really need it. And an Imp won't get very far, so she needs at least 2 or 3 or even 4 attacks to use besides that to defend herself as well as heal.
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Death Minion: Basically Does what they are suppose to do but does not give you any blades or shields.
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Same as Ice minion.
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Myth Minions: Cyclops, Does what he is suppose to do but should have more health. Minotaur, I understand casts Taunt and that is about it. In legend a Minotaur should be considered a tank and take lots of Damage and does lots of damage also. He needs to be able to cast Myth Spells also and have more health to be able to be a tank.
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I've only seen living puppet, some troll and some cyclops minions, but I haven't seen any minotaur minions, but I do know that it seems that almost all of them have a natural attack, well at least the living puppet and the trolls do.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall: the minions could use a few more attacks, a little more health, and at least give them all a natural attack to use.

Defender
Dec 11, 2008
128
I have a Myth GrandMaster. In my opinion, the Living Golem is the best spell in the game. He was a huge help to me throughought the entire game. Yes, he has a mere 45 HP. But he costs ZERO PIPS and he never passes. He attacks every single round. He is basicly an Antique Wand come to life casting a variety of 1 pip spells from different schools. I never took him out of my deck unless I was in an instance area and was traveling with a full party. He rarely gets attacked and if he does, so what? By the time the enemies kill him, they have took a few hundred points of damage for ZERO pips. What other spell in the game does so much for so little? Nothing.

Next up for Myth is the Troll. You can use 1 to 3 pips on him to give him more HP. He passes a lot and heavily relies on Fire Elf. I hated him for a long time and left him out of my deck during the mid part of the game, but eventually re-added him and he grew on me.

Cyclops is the third Myth minion. You can use 1 to 4 pips on him. He is a great ally. He fights almost just like another Wizard would at your side. Spend 3 to 4 pips on him to give him enough health to last for a long while. He will attack, cast traps, heal you and give you blades. I always kept at least one in my deck.

Minotaur. Blah. What a waste of a minion. He costs 3 pips and stands there and Taunts the enemy. Casts a shield on himself. Then taunts the enemy. About every 5th or 6th round he will use a Natural Attack that does less than 100 damage. They should change his name from Enraged Minotaur to Pesky Minotaur. Used him for less than a day after getting him and never readded him to my deck until the final boss battle in GH, but I ended up not using him.

Defender
Dec 11, 2008
128
Also, don't forget about all the spells you get to use on Minions only. The best being sacrifice. I used that a lot when I was in trouble. I would cast Living Golem one round and Sacrifice the next round. This was a huge help. I would gain 400 HP for the cost of ZERO pips. Plus I would now have more pips saved to cast a good attack.

Survivor
May 25, 2009
22
I think the minions should be similar to the type of wizard.

Like the life minion heals most of the time that is correct.

But the storm minion does pretty much Nothing!

I think it should have less health and most of the storm moves like the storm wizard.

Defender
Aug 01, 2008
100
RoloX2 wrote:
moviebuff3000 wrote:

Water Elemental: Taunt, Shields
Should be able to also cast: Thunder Snake, Lightning Bats, Storm Shark, Storm Blade, Storm Trap, possible Storm Snowman and Storm Elf

That will completely hose the Storm minion as well as game balance.
The purpose of the Water Elemental is to tank (take damage and survive) for the Storm wizard. This is why it also casts Spirit Armour (absorb 400 damage) and Ghoul (Take 160 health/heal 80 health) with its taunts and shields. It is not there to augment or assist with damage.

The Storm wizard doesn't need his damage augmented (he deals plenty); he also doesn't need to be targeted by foes and that is why the Water Elemental casts what it casts. This is perfect, for if the Water Elemental cast Storm damage spells, it would only interfere with the Storm Wizard's ability to deal effective, timed damage and it wouldn't tank very well.


I use to LOVE my Storm Minion.

Given all the recent changes, KI has completely RUINED the Storm Minion.
His taunts use to be targeted at one foe. That was great. It let him take on one foe while I handles the one or two others in battle. Then when I finished off mine, I'd finish off his. That was the kind of strategy that let me take on high level foes with only my Storm Minion as assistance. NO MORE.

NOW HIS TAUNTS HIT ALL FOES SO INSTEAD OF HIM DOING BATTLE WITH ONE, HE IS BATTLING 2 OR 3 AT A TIME! Do you see the problem? With his weak hp and spells, he now dies within 3 to 4 turns because ALL the foes are affected by his taunt and now attack him. HE IS NOW USELESS. NOT WORTH USING AT ALL! I'm not going to bother keeping him in my deck anymore because he isn't worth the pips to deploy him.

And on top of that, he makes the freaking bizarre sound like a llama being strangled every time he takes damage. I turned my sound off, it is that awful and annoying.

I am really fed up and frustrated with this game now.

It was fine before the Grizzleheim "improvements". Why can't they just add a new world and not ruin the rest of the game in the process? If they want to make it more difficult and tricky, then make that part of the new realms and please don't screw up the realms that already exist.

I am really, really fed up.

And I am really, really debating the cost issue. The economy is tight enough, do I want to keep spending money on a game that no longer is fun for me? A game that seems to have forgotten it's core values and original target audience? I don't know what I'll decide. But I do know that another element of the game play that I did enjoy has been ruined by game designers who can't leave well enough alone.

Survivor
Jun 08, 2009
6
antaybh wrote:
I myself am a Storm wizard and I personally think all the other schools have nothing to complain about. My minion is great in the sense of getting the heat off me, but I am a grandmaster so I fight very high level enemies and it's almost just a waste of pips casting him. He doesn't last more then about four hits and then he wastes traps when he does ghoul. For a minion who's purpose is souly to take hits you would think he would have more hp then all other minions, shields against all schools NOT just elements and possibly be able to heal and share with his master! (that's the least they could do to make all things fair if he isn't going to attack)


I completely agree withyou, i am a Master storm wizard and feel there is no need to use a storm minion either. The idea behind the minion is a good one, it should just tank and take damage off of the storm wizard, however like you said, it just cant do that with its lack of health and effective shielding. Even if it were improved i doubt i would ever use it on normal mobs, but in long boss fights like malistare and the oni, an improved storm minion would be great.
Maybe if they improved its health with you as you level, so by the time you are 50 it has around 3 thousand health instead of the little it has now. Plus extra shielding and aggression stealing spells would be great. I would definitley use a minion for boss fights if this were to happen

Survivor
Nov 25, 2008
16
I use to LOVE my Storm Minion.

Given all the recent changes, KI has completely RUINED the Storm Minion.
His taunts use to be targeted at one foe. That was great. It let him take on one foe while I handles the one or two others in battle. Then when I finished off mine, I'd finish off his. That was the kind of strategy that let me take on high level foes with only my Storm Minion as assistance. NO MORE.

It was fine before the Grizzleheim "improvements". Why can't they just add a new world and not ruin the rest of the game in the process? If they want to make it more difficult and tricky, then make that part of the new realms and please don't screw up the realms that already exist.

I am really, really fed up.

And I am really, really debating the cost issue. The economy is tight enough, do I want to keep spending money on a game that no longer is fun for me? A game that seems to have forgotten it's core values and original target audience? I don't know what I'll decide. But I do know that another element of the game play that I did enjoy has been ruined by game designers who can't leave well enough alone.



This is true they could have updated our minioin to upgrade as we lvl up every other school has options for minions. Balance even gets a better verison of the storm minion!



Defender
May 15, 2009
193
PeteWhite wrote:

With his weak hp and spells, he now dies within 3 to 4 turns because ALL the foes are affected by his taunt and now attack him. HE IS NOW USELESS. NOT WORTH USING AT ALL! I'm not going to bother keeping him in my deck anymore because he isn't worth the pips to deploy him.

antaybh wrote:
it's almost just a waste of pips casting him. He doesn't last more then about four hits

Life's Spirit Armour costs the same 3 pips and absorbs 400 damage (unless its Death's life-steal). How much damage do you think the Water Elemental absorbed in those four hits? At least 700 without Ghoul or shields...

I do think that with AI improvements (AI dealing more/smarter damage), the Elemental's HP should be reconsidered.

antaybh wrote:
he wastes traps when he does ghoul.

The aren't necessarily wasted since he'll get more health out of the deal. Besides, Storm doesn't have Death Traps anyway.

antaybh wrote:
be able to heal and share with his master!

There are minion spells you can cast to do that.

PeteWhite wrote:

NOW HIS TAUNTS HIT ALL FOES SO INSTEAD OF HIM DOING BATTLE WITH ONE, HE IS BATTLING 2 OR 3 AT A TIME! Do you see the problem?

No. Because I am too squishy to take damage from 3 or 4 foes simultaneously; I would be too busy healing/shielding rather than doing damage. I'd rather the disposable minion be the damage sponge.

PeteWhite wrote:
And I am really, really debating the cost issue. The economy is tight enough, do I want to keep spending money on a game that no longer is fun for me? A game that seems to have forgotten it's core values and original target audience? I don't know what I'll decide. But I do know that another element of the game play that I did enjoy has been ruined by game designers who can't leave well enough alone.

Changes can kick you out of your comfort zone but I do suggest (after the initial uproar--I know, I am guilty of it too--to step away and re-approach with a fresh perspective and an open mind to try to see what experience the developers had in mind. After giving that an honest, unbiased shot, then critically think about whether the changes improved or detracted from the game.

If they have improved the game, you won't miss out on it.
If they have diminished the game (Boss *ahem* 'cheats'), then you want to provide objective, useful, tangible feedback.


Survivor
Jun 27, 2009
2
While I do not think there is anything wrong with the minion themselves currently, (aside from the AI for the minions being a bit on the un-observant side) I do have a couple of suggestions/ideas/critisizim.

To my knowledge other than Myth, (maybe death not sure yet) even grand masters get stuck with level 1 minions. To me a grandmaster wizard would be able to summon a bit more than a rank 1 minion. Also Myth is not a weak scool, not the strongest but there are good damage level spells, as well as the usual range of augmentations, I do not think Myth having advanced minions gives them an unfair advantage, but the lack of it for other schools is somewhat... well, embarassing. :)

There is alot of posts and comments about once you get to level 50, there is not a whole lot left to do.

What about crafting custom spells? (Via crafting and crafting quests, not just buy paying gold, crowns, or training points.) One of those spells could be advanced minions.

Will post more on the "advanced independant study course"

-Wulfgar


Survivor
Dec 22, 2008
15
I would like some changes made to the Ice Guardian minion. I sure don't want it attacking though. Ice takes persistence and time especially in worlds like Dragonspyre so I take my time setting up my traps blades and yada yada yada use frost giant then boom I win. But I don't want my minion using any attack that's ice cause then all that time goes down the drain and it will probably only make an attack a little over 600 even with wyvern. I would like it using shields especially the evil tower shield and putting up blades and traps for me so I don't have to take as much time and obviously ghoul for health when it's about to die.

Defender
Apr 24, 2009
124
To me I was really surprised to see that the Ice Minion had not much health and the Ice Wizard has more health than any wizard in the game. I think it wouls make sense to give the Ice minions high health also. Yeah if they are considered to be damage sponges than they need the health for that. I have found it usful to have the minion get the bosses attention and you heal yourself while the minion has the attention of the boss but this does not always happy and a minion with 400 health can only last so long in higher levels especially when the boss uses higher pip spells.

Survivor
Jul 06, 2009
37
I really enjoy my death minion(s) and have gotten affectionate toward them, especially the little crypt watchguard. He seems to be the smartest and has helped me out tremendously.

What I would like to see is a little tweaking to the AI that allows for them to recognize the school of their enemy. My sweet little crypt watchguard played fire elf on Warlord Katsumori two or three times. It did less than 50 hp damage total because of Katsumori's resist. I was so frustrated every time I saw that card played because it was a total waste of pips for him. Meanwhile, Katsumori attacked me with FireZilla, Lava Shark, and Helephant all in the same battle. I did end up winning that battle solo with my minion, but only because life is my secondary school and I used all of my satyrs.

I love my minion, but would love the AI tweaked a bit to recognize the enemy's school and not play cards from that school.

Survivor
Jun 24, 2009
11
I think the storm minion should be a kraken that knows thunder snake lightning bats storm shark and possibly tempest storm blade storm trap myth shield oh and water elemental sometimes does use ghoul plz respond

Survivor
May 13, 2009
9
I am a storm wizard and all my water elemental does is taunt use elemental shield and sometimes ghoul, but dosen't know a single storm attack or shield. I like the idea for the water elemental.

Survivor
Nov 25, 2008
16
OK RoloX2 you seem to think you have all the answers but it isn't that simple.

1). The absorb does nothing because almost every enemy knows ghoul and goes right through the absorb

2). You don't know what my secondary school is or anything. I could have hex, feint, curse or any other shield that boost any hit or death trap treasure cards. So that was pointless of you even trying to say to argue on that......

3). So let me get this straight, you expect me to waste the pips to caste him then to sacrifice him while i could have just healed myself? Yea, that makes sense....... I shouldn't have to kill my minion for life that is a last resort kind of thing. He should be able to heal and keep tanking for me.

Are you even storm? If not then i don't see how you consider yourself to be such and expert on OUR minion.


Explorer
Dec 11, 2008
59
ya there are time life sprite comes in handy then there our times she just watches me die

i am a lvl 42 mage and i like solo i did just fine i beat KT solo i beat MB solo (i had help in big ben) and i did mooshu solo so i used my sprite a lot and like i said she comes in handy some times and mine can cast satyr mine has done it a few times as for attack spells it was only imp so far

i just think she should heal the one with the lowest health every time she can and only heal her when she is hurt

Defender
Mar 09, 2009
123
The only change I'd like to see is the minions being able to use power pips. After all, the boss's learned how to, why can't the minions?

I rely pretty heavily on my cyclops minion with my current wiz, but didn't use my fire minion much, he ruined all my setups.

Angus FireHammer - 36 Myth

1