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Gardening spells should use Mana not Energy

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Sep 17, 2010
21
The whole gardening thing is pretty cool. However one huge problem is the energy for maintaining these plants. It's pretty much impossible to manage plants and raise pets at the same time. While I apprecaite the energy level increase to 70 it is not enough. I think the best fix to this is to use mana instead of energy for gardening. You have to use spells to garden. All other spells in the game take mana and so should gardening. You could also decrease the ammount of time it takes energy to regenerate. Maybe cut it in half. I dont think we need seperate energy for it just use mana and problem solved. Unless your trying to force people to buy crowns for energy to generate revenue. But i'm sure that is not the case. :-)

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
My friend and I were just discussing this very issue. People are basically being forced to choose one or the other.

I like and second either of your suggestion! Mana idea is terrific. :D My only other idea would be energy wisps for a quick refill.

Megan

Survivor
May 04, 2009
2
Firefan02 wrote:
My friend and I were just discussing this very issue. People are basically being forced to choose one or the other.

I like and second either of your suggestion! Mana idea is terrific. :D My only other idea would be energy wisps for a quick refill.

Megan
yea i agree with you mana is a awesome idea :D i would REALLY LOVE IT if they had energy wisps if they did that would be awesome

Mastermind
Jan 25, 2010
336
GO MEGAN! Energy wisps - totally!
I am sick of having to wait two hours for my energy to fill.

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
Pets give a bonus to the character (stats, a spell, etc).
Plants give a bonus to the character (treasure cards, etc).

In either case, energy is the limiting factor in training/growing. If we had more, we could grow massive harvests or train many pets...quickly. To maintain a game balance, the energy rate needs to be kept in accordance to the character progression rate.

Things can go very fast if you know the system or spend a lot of time. Many have taken their pets to epic in a week, gotten to GM gardener in 10 days, or obtained a dozen levels in a day. Do we really want any of these to go faster?

Ummm, let me rephrase, do we eat all of our halloween candy, lets say 5 bags full, on the first night, or do we want to spread it out to really enjoy it? As an adult, be it candy, pet training or gardening in game, I say slow and savory.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
MikeStrath wrote:
Pets give a bonus to the character (stats, a spell, etc).
Plants give a bonus to the character (treasure cards, etc).

In either case, energy is the limiting factor in training/growing. If we had more, we could grow massive harvests or train many pets...quickly. To maintain a game balance, the energy rate needs to be kept in accordance to the character progression rate.

Things can go very fast if you know the system or spend a lot of time. Many have taken their pets to epic in a week, gotten to GM gardener in 10 days, or obtained a dozen levels in a day. Do we really want any of these to go faster?

Ummm, let me rephrase, do we eat all of our halloween candy, lets say 5 bags full, on the first night, or do we want to spread it out to really enjoy it? As an adult, be it candy, pet training or gardening in game, I say slow and savory.


The problem I hear most is people not having enough energy to keep their plants alive and train their pets. People are making "investments" in gardening and pets. As it stands now people can garden or train pets not both. (That is unless they are willing to use the Crowns Shop.) So something needs to be done to address the energy issue. Having energy regenerate quicker would be helpful. My son wants to train his pet and garden. Right now doing both makes it way too slow or down right impossible.

As for people doing things quickly-if they are willing to spend crowns they can and will do things very quickly. Pets level quickly using Mega Snack Packs. Energy can be refilled via the Crowns Shop. So your argument really doesn't work. Those people will just continue on as they have buying Mega Snack Packs and Energy. Your argument just penalizes those of us who don't use Crowns.
Megan

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
You get 1 point of energy every 10 minutes, or 144 energy points per day. If a garden of 10 plants takes 50-60 points/day, that leaves 80-90 points per day for pet training. Let's see, at 80 points, with an avg of snack 3 and a score of 3, that is six points per run....or at teen 120 trained point per day.

Both of course will slow as you hit adult and higher level plants (and I agree with you, crowns could speed this up, but it is already a good rate at 10 plants/120 pet points/day).

If you choose to log on only once/day, that is still a reasonable amount, and could yield 3-5 plants plus 50 trained points/day...not bad for self-limited play.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
MikeStrath wrote:
You get 1 point of energy every 10 minutes, or 144 energy points per day. If a garden of 10 plants takes 50-60 points/day, that leaves 80-90 points per day for pet training. Let's see, at 80 points, with an avg of snack 3 and a score of 3, that is six points per run....or at teen 120 trained point per day.

Both of course will slow as you hit adult and higher level plants (and I agree with you, crowns could speed this up, but it is already a good rate at 10 plants/120 pet points/day).

If you choose to log on only once/day, that is still a reasonable amount, and could yield 3-5 plants plus 50 trained points/day...not bad for self-limited play.


My higher rank gardening spells use 10- 25 energy per spell. If I use three of them at 20 energy, I have used 60 of my 69 total energy units. Leaving 9 energy for pet training.
If I use three of my 10 energy spells, that would be 30 of my 69 total energy. That leaves 39 energy for my pet.

There is quite a difference there between low and high level spells energy use. That directly affects my ability train a pet. It is easier to do both at lower level gardening and much more difficult at higher level gardening. The most energy we can have now is 70.

Yes I want it all. I should not be penalized and have to choose one or the other. It is coming to that as I advance in gardening.

Megan

Survivor
Nov 25, 2009
2
MikeStrath,

If it were a "game balance" issue as you indicate, you wouldn't be able to buy pet/garden energy with crowns. As it is, anyone with money to burn can do everything they want to damage the so called balance. Sure 144 points in a day could go pretty far, but for $1 more you can have 284 points. If they are willing to spend more, then can get several sea dragons and level them to epic in a day too.

It just stinks when you have to decide between killing one exploding gnat swarm or watering 7 plants

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
Megan, you didn't read what I said, I did a caculation for the entire day...not what you can hold at one time, assuming that you would log on to use more than just 70 points, or whatever you have, but the whole thing. Go to bed, come back later and have 50 refilled, go to work/school, have another 50 refilled, etc.

I agree with you 100%, if you wish to limit your play to one log-on per day, you have to cut back on what you wish to do.

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
chrismyown wrote:
If it were a "game balance" issue as you indicate, you wouldn't be able to buy pet/garden energy with crowns. As it is, anyone with money to burn can do everything they want to damage the so called balance. Sure 144 points in a day could go pretty far, but for $1 more you can have 284 points. ....


I see Crowns differently than you do actually, I don't see it as money to burn, I see it as a way to additionally support a game I enjoy.

And $1 isn't burning money....I play here for $6/mo...burning money is paying more than that. Burning money is going out for 2 hr of entertainment, say a new movie, and paying $15 to see it (normal prices in my neighborhood, more if it is 3D). Burning money is buying the latest fashion rather than functional clothes, etc. The incredibally small amount of monies that crowns cost in comparision to the other 'extras' such as the forementioned movies & clothing is burning money. $1 is only 6 min of work where I live at In-and-Out (fast-food) for a new employee, and for us old farts like me nearing retirement a minute or less.

Survivor
Nov 25, 2009
2
MikeStrath wrote:
I see Crowns differently than you do actually, I don't see it as money to burn, I see it as a way to additionally support a game I enjoy.

And $1 isn't burning money....I play here for $6/mo...burning money is paying more than that. Burning money is going out for 2 hr of entertainment, say a new movie, and paying $15 to see it (normal prices in my neighborhood, more if it is 3D). Burning money is buying the latest fashion rather than functional clothes, etc. The incredibally small amount of monies that crowns cost in comparision to the other 'extras' such as the forementioned movies & clothing is burning money. $1 is only 6 min of work where I live at In-and-Out (fast-food) for a new employee, and for us old farts like me nearing retirement a minute or less.


So what you are saying now is counter to what you said before when you talked about energy being a balance. There is no balance if some people can spend crowns to do whatever they like.

Just this morning I spent my entire energy in 3 minutes to kill bugs in two different locations and meet 1/4 of my plant's other needs. Guess what, it's now 6 hours later and I want to go back to water/magic/music/sun my plants that were left out this morning and the same garden imp is back on another plant, and the flies and gnats are back in the other part of my garden. I was hoping to meet the needs of my garden without spending crowns today but I guess that's not possible.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
MikeStrath wrote:
Megan, you didn't read what I said, I did a caculation for the entire day...not what you can hold at one time, assuming that you would log on to use more than just 70 points, or whatever you have, but the whole thing. Go to bed, come back later and have 50 refilled, go to work/school, have another 50 refilled, etc.

I agree with you 100%, if you wish to limit your play to one log-on per day, you have to cut back on what you wish to do.


I read what you said Mike. Theoretically speaking there is enough energy to do both over the course of a day.

I log on and garden in the morning. If I am lucky I can check in the afternoon. Then at night I quest and garden once again right before I log off. After I am done gardening I have little or no energy.

I really like the gardening using mana idea. I could garden then take a little time to do pets. I don't mind it taking me a long time to level pets. I do mind I have no energy after gardening. Especially when I do have a little extra time that I could work on pets.

Many folks don't have crowns or want to use them on stuff like gardening. Then we get this quandary simply because the energy allotment is not quite enough. Many of us have limited time making it even harder.

Megan

Champion
Jan 23, 2009
412
88moneypit wrote:
The whole gardening thing is pretty cool. However one huge problem is the energy for maintaining these plants. It's pretty much impossible to manage plants and raise pets at the same time. While I apprecaite the energy level increase to 70 it is not enough. I think the best fix to this is to use mana instead of energy for gardening. You have to use spells to garden. All other spells in the game take mana and so should gardening. You could also decrease the ammount of time it takes energy to regenerate. Maybe cut it in half. I dont think we need seperate energy for it just use mana and problem solved. Unless your trying to force people to buy crowns for energy to generate revenue. But i'm sure that is not the case. :-)


You took the words right out og my mouth. In fact I came here to post this message. I like to garden but I have three large areas of plants and i have to constantly recharge my 70 points. I can use another char to train the pets but that done I still dont have enough energy for take care of all their needs without running out. Its not fair! I can refill mana in minutes or seconds by going to comoon areas and i HAVE TO buy this energy or wait HOURS before you are healed.

Champion
Jan 23, 2009
412
MikeStrath wrote:
You get 1 point of energy every 10 minutes, or 144 energy points per day. If a garden of 10 plants takes 50-60 points/day, that leaves 80-90 points per day for pet training. Let's see, at 80 points, with an avg of snack 3 and a score of 3, that is six points per run....or at teen 120 trained point per day.

Both of course will slow as you hit adult and higher level plants (and I agree with you, crowns could speed this up, but it is already a good rate at 10 plants/120 pet points/day).

If you choose to log on only once/day, that is still a reasonable amount, and could yield 3-5 plants plus 50 trained points/day...not bad for self-limited play.


LOL!!

Are you kidding Megan you have lovely logic and are very right. I have to warn you that no matter what the topic there is always some "member" that joins citing "balance" as the vague but commonly used reason. However, in this case you are right and Mike is wrong. Mike your logic says that we as members would have to have no life in order to play this game.

It is bad enough to run out of energy but you then have to choose which plants to save becase whether or not you are there the plants needs not being met does not just stall or kill it. if you just make it to the rescue you can find you have to get it back to mature.

having more needs than ability to handle it FORCES people to spend crowns and any answer that ignores that simple gain is deliberately ignoring the problem.

KI I understand needing a new way to make money and there are plenty of ways to spend your money on this game. However, if this games continues this path soon nothing worth doing on this will be free and misleading people to plant when the cost of its needs (every spell costs energy and energy cost 250 in crows to purchase) this isnt a user friendly system.

As a parent I have to make my kids stop. It is costing too much. Its great, but too costly and a simply fix is required. ENERGY WISPS!

If there are members who disagree that is their right. However, just because there are always members here willing to defend this game (right or wrong) does not invalidate the original problem. There is no way to do more than dabble in gardening unless you are willing to pay.

Survivor
Nov 19, 2010
49
If you don't have enough energy to take care of your plants without even taking pet training into consideration, then you have way too many plants.

If you want to train your pet and garden, you have to find a balance.

Those spending money on crowns, subscriptions, etc are supporting those who don't. They should get a bigger benefit for the money they spend.

If you look at any "free" online game out there, you will find that it is free to play, but you are limited in some way. To play the game in it's fullest, you have to pay. Those are the people that allow others to play for free.

So if you don't ahve enough energy, then you have too many plants.

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
Ranos131 wrote:
If you don't have enough energy to take care of your plants without even taking pet training into consideration, then you have way too many plants.

If you want to train your pet and garden, you have to find a balance.

Those spending money on crowns, subscriptions, etc are supporting those who don't. They should get a bigger benefit for the money they spend.

If you look at any "free" online game out there, you will find that it is free to play, but you are limited in some way. To play the game in it's fullest, you have to pay. Those are the people that allow others to play for free.

So if you don't ahve enough energy, then you have too many plants.


LOL-- I have a subscription and crowns. I am seriously considering opening a second account. We have six wizards and have bought WC to DS with crowns. I have done my part "supporting" the game. Give me a break!

I have minimal plants laid out well. My upper level spells use lots of energy. My Life wiz has 69 of 70 total energy. I can use 60 energy in one gardening bout. That leaves enough energy for one pet game.

My busy life means I can pop on once in the morning to garden, once in the afternoon (if I am lucky) and once before bed to quest and garden. That means I can do 3, yes count them 3 pet games. Even if I have extra time I don't have energy.

Sojourna--thanks for your reinforcement of my thinking. I do understand some things are done to balance the game. This is one of them that needs balancing. Just not in the manner some posters here are suggesting. Gardening and pet training need some tweaking. KI giving us more energy shows they know it.

Megan

Survivor
Jan 24, 2010
47
It would be a lot easier with energy wisps or using mana. Somtimes I just switch off days with my pets and my plants. But it would be nice to do them both at the same time.

Gabrielle Darkheart Master Necromancer Level44

Explorer
Jun 14, 2009
86
Ranos131 wrote:
If you don't have enough energy to take care of your plants without even taking pet training into consideration, then you have way too many plants.

If you want to train your pet and garden, you have to find a balance.

Those spending money on crowns, subscriptions, etc are supporting those who don't. They should get a bigger benefit for the money they spend.

If you look at any "free" online game out there, you will find that it is free to play, but you are limited in some way. To play the game in it's fullest, you have to pay. Those are the people that allow others to play for free.

So if you don't ahve enough energy, then you have too many plants.


I was going to say the exact thing! I have only gardened 6 plants so far. My first three that I got from the quests were good untill pests got two of them. One eldered and gone was it. Later, I got three stinkweeds, and they are getting there. For those others, one's a mature, and the other is probably one by now. 20 plants+ is to much.

Champion
Jan 23, 2009
412
ok let's talk numbers 4 plant (not six as suggested earlier was a good number)

If you have two pets with pest and they are 4 or 5 you will have already spent 30-40 point to cure two. then if they have needs using the three point spells you water, magic, music and pollenate the plants and you are done. But if you have to do all of the above with all plants (a very possible possibility) you spend 15 points per plant times 4 and you have 60.

you cant do it. and the combonation does not have to be that bad. You can cut it in half and not have enough. Then when you come back you find that you plantg has regressed or is ready to die.

Come on. I pay for my sub and i have from the start. So I am not buying the whole support thing. I buy plants gear homes and all so I'd say that I was plenty supportive to KI its time that members stop pretending that the only ones complaining are the ones who want it all free. That may be nice but it isnt real. But real isnt just expecting anything given to you.

A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
Did anyone say you must garden and pet train on the same character on an account???

Why is it players want to concentrate on just one wizard at a time???

You really only need one high level gardenerer per account, as you can pass through the reagents through the common storage. Cards can be traded via friends.

You only really only need one pet trainer. Trained pets can be passed among all the characters on an account (well, except for the school specific pets).

So that means you can spend all one character's energy on a pet, then have all of another character's energy on gardening. The energy regenerates while you are logged off, so just play several of the characters on your account.

Another issue, is the someone stating that the game is forcing us to log on???

Huh???????????????

I log on less for the game than I do for real life necessities....during normal working days if I don't check at least 4-5 times a day I get too far behind. Morning, afternoon and bedtime for gardening doesn't seem like a real problem to me.

As an aside. I have started yet another character on gardening with collected seeds from other characters, from Farley, drops, etc to see if I can level with minimal plants without resorting to any bought energy and see how far I can go. Yes, I do train pets on another character, so that is a real non-issue for me and not included. As to log on times, it will be at 50-60% of my required log on times for work...sometimes working at home may be a real good time :)

Explorer
Apr 12, 2010
59
I am in agreement here. It would be great to either get wisps or be able to use mana for gardening. As most people only get to log in once a day they probably do not notice needing to refill energy constantly. But there are still a lot of people, that log on more than once a day just to take care of gardening. Not realizing that gardening was going to take that much energy to cast a single spell. Or getting a chance to plant a higher ranking plant and finding out that they get higher ranking pests 4 times a day makes your energy go quickly. or if you don't think about putting all of your plants in a tiny group you go through energy quickly. I have ten plants planted. All ranking from 1 to 5 and i go through all of my energy 3 times a day most times on only a handful of my plants because the energy cost is so high. And i didn't know to plant them all together. And even then, some of them have larger soil patches making it to where you can not use higher ranking spells on more than one of them anyway. Note I have not even mentioned trying to train any of my 22 pets.

And to add to the previous post about buying energy using crowns, I can not afford to buy crowns. I am lucky to have enough money to buy my ten dollar subscription every month. I see the specials and just wish I had the money to buy them. So buying energy is out of the question for me. I was gifted the Epic Bundle for a Xmas present and the crowns that have come with it I have spent more on energy than anything that i would have rather spent them on. Because lets face it 250 crowns for energy that i go through within 5 minutes and still need more is not worth it to me. Or to many other players I am sure. And to be honest, the best thing that comes from gardening is the rare reagents, which with the new quests in CL and the DS quests give the rest of the players a chance to actually get crafting done.

And still not that many players are going to want to sit around and use all of their mana just to garden. Like me, most of them will plant up to ten plants and go ok lets see what this does. And then go battle and level. Not sit around and think of how many plants they can plant because of the drops they get from them. Because the core of the game is dueling not gardening. :-D


Mastermind
Oct 15, 2010
315
I know right! I just make sure my plants are well, go to the commons and see all these MANA wisps that I dont need. Then I go into the pet pavillion to train my pet, and my energy is at 29! this is soo bad! that means I either have to spend 250c or wait 10 min to get 1 energy! ki, you really need to change this, or make the refill faster/ cheaper. If you want to do neither of these, you could make a very rare energy wisp that does +2 energy or something!

Delver
Mar 18, 2010
262
MikeStrath wrote:
Did anyone say you must garden and pet train on the same character on an account???

Why is it players want to concentrate on just one wizard at a time???

You really only need one high level gardenerer per account, as you can pass through the reagents through the common storage. Cards can be traded via friends.

You only really only need one pet trainer. Trained pets can be passed among all the characters on an account (well, except for the school specific pets).

So that means you can spend all one character's energy on a pet, then have all of another character's energy on gardening. The energy regenerates while you are logged off, so just play several of the characters on your account.


I have one almost Legendary, one grandmaster and one level 41 wizard. I use school pets on my upper level wizards so I can't switch them around to train them. So I still have an energy dilemma. Why should I have to choose one or the other? Crafting, training pets and gardening are my things I like to do when not questing and when I have extra time.

To take pets out of the shared bank you lose all your energy. So there you go, we are back to NO ENERGY when I have time to train them. (Also, to get said pet back to my gardener would use ALL her energy leaving no energy for gardening.) We get 6 energy per hour. So when I come on again I may have 30-42 energy to work with for pet training. That gives me minimal energy to train with and makes it oh so frustrating. That is just ridiculous. I level my pets without mega snack packs so it is slow going to begin with even if I craft good snacks. I don't mind that. So sorry, switching pets in and out of the shared bank to have one wiz train them is not the answer either. More energy or using mana for gardening is the solution.

Megan


A+ Student
Jan 05, 2009
1708
Ummm Megan, if you take a pet out of your bank with zero energy in your pool after gardening you loose all of zero energy, net loss of zero. I'm not talking about switching back and forth a lot, I am saying train the pet and handing it over when it is ready, in your opinion, to play.

1