Late-joining recently came out with Summer Update and made its way into Beastmoon Hunt. If you're not aware, it's the ability of a player to join an existing fight that is in the planning phase (card-selection) and get to join during that phase, with the countdown timer reset. For Monster Mayhem, it's a blessing. For Hunt, it's complicated.
It allows those with slower computers, reflexes, or internet connections to make it into a battle. Newbies jumping into battles solo can be rescued a lot easier. It allows teams to start battles in a particular order much, MUCH easier. This can yield to some cool strategies. There might even be fewer matches thrown due to extreme 2v1, 3v1, or 4v1 match-ups being salvageable.
On the other hand, catching players off-guard loses its potency. Players are shifting towards pipping up and starting even 2v2 and 3v3 matches. 20 seconds is also plenty of time to plan to join, which means there's an actual advantage to NOT joining a fight right away. You can wait and see what forms have joined and get a form that best counters them.
This really takes the fun out of running around the map. I've prioritized fights over capping due to the daily event point cap on capping 30 rings. I like the PvP fighting aspect, but a lot of the fun was getting a 3v2 fight. I enjoy pulling a specific form first out of a group sitting on a ring. I liked that starting the fight was a strategy itself. Getting a full 3v3 or 4v4 was a lot less common early-mid game.
I've come to accept this change, but I think it could be adjusted to be a bit more harsh. There's no punishment for joining a 3v1 anymore. Let me explain the situation that led me to make this post.
I had just won a 3v3 fight at eye using an AOE. One of the players had fled, but the other 2 got defeated at the last round. I had to run to a health wisp and was lucky enough to grab a pip wisp along the way. Then our team started capping spiral. There was a 2v2 occurring at moon and we had all the other rings capped, so I rushed to spiral.
I made it to spiral and we caught a player into a 4v1. We selected our spells quickly and the other player let the timer run. With 5 seconds left, the player who had fled our earlier fight joined with full starting pips. This reset our spell selection and reset the timer. Of course, we selected our spells quickly and the other team let the timer drop again. Then one of the other players joined, who was previously defeated. They were a tank form, so they start with 1pip. The timer went down again, same thing. Then the fourth player joined with their bonus starting pip.
These players both had time to wait out the 30 second penalty and make it to spiral. The last player even had time to grab pip. They had faced no penalties at all. I realize this situation is uncommon. I do. But between both teams joining a 1v1 spiral fight late, it could take nearly 2 minutes to start the first round. That's crazy.
Again, I like aspects of the change, and think it does a lot of good. But 20 seconds to join a fight penalty-free, especially when it resets when someone else joins, is not a good concept. When I play the squishier forms like elf fairy, or rat, I go after mismatch 3v3 spots or stick to 2v2 because they can easily die in a single round. Joining one of these existing fights a little now means they can all re-target you, if you're the biggest threat (which is usually the case)
At the bare minimum, can their hand size shrink if they join a battle with less than 10 seconds? Can they get less time to select when the timer resets? No discard? There just needs to be some disadvantage because it gets really frustrating watching more forms join a fight.
What are your thoughts on Late-Joining in Beastmoon Hunt? The teams I've played with seem to have mixed opinions, with the groups generally disliking the change and random teams generally liking it.
Re: Late-Joining Needs a Penalty in Beastmoon Hunt
I really dislike this late joining. A lot of the fun of beastmoon was trying to start fights strategically. That's a big part of beastmoon strategy and it's not only gone but basically replaced by pure randomness because there is really no way to know how many others might join the fight at the last moment. It's also unfair if you arrive at a fight on time and the other player runs to get a pip and is still allowed to join the same turn.
Additionally there are many problematic bugs and glitches I've seen, including: 1. other team was allowed to fill their fight while my team got an X in the empty spot (no, someone did not flee, KI put an X there). 2. The turn indicator disappeared, leading to much confusion. 3. I joined a battle late and the countdown was showing 1 second when my hand popped up so obviously I couldn't play a card. 4. My card selection disappeared when someone joined and I didn't notice.
Re: Late-Joining Needs a Penalty in Beastmoon Hunt
I agree with your assessment. I also hear more complaints than rejoices from players about this change.
My only other thought though is if this is beneficial for Randoms then maybe it should stay? Advanced players will eventually figure out the intricacies that you mentioned and can adjust, but Random newbies are oblivious to those nuances.
I think some fine tuning might be in order (such as the visual glitch of your spell disappearing (it still casts your original target unless you change, but a lot of people don't realize this)) because I do think that there is value in "catching" players that go off by themselves.
Re: Late-Joining Needs a Penalty in Beastmoon Hunt
I think this new everyone can join late is particularly unfair to the smaller forms. They depend on starting the battle in a strategic way and what looked like a good matchup can quickly turn into a disaster to them as more players join and are allowed to hit them in the first round. Just because something is favorable to random players doesn't mean that it is a good addition to the game. Deciding all matches by a coin flip would also be favorable to random players but doesn't make a good game either.
Re: Late-Joining Needs a Penalty in Beastmoon Hunt
Updating this thread, my matches have gone on a lot longer than usual. A few months ago, we'd have anywhere near 20 minutes. Now it's pushing closer to 30. I've observed that players are less eager to start a fight initially and I've made it my strategy to try and NOT start a battle. Capturing rings alone is more common, but it's equally as common for an opposing player to stand nearby and the two players create a temporary stalemate because neither wants to start a fight without a pip. This creates an uneasiness to fight and capture, effectively halting the game until players are pipped-up or someone leads the charge to start a fight.
Having your pips maxed is essentially required with starting fights thanks to joining late. It is much, much harder to force a situation where you can counter someone having more pips. Personally, I'd be eager to start a battle with a max pipped elf if I know we can outnumber them for a turn.
I'm not a fan of the idea that players can reasonably join ANY battle from almost anywhere on the map in the 20 or so seconds required. Celestia is the worst of this thanks to the teleporting system. Celestia, however, was my favorite map due to the fact you can move around it quickly thanks to its ring and cross design.
I've also seen the meta shift towards tankier forms due to the fact that you can generally kill the squishy forms early. I loved playing the squishy forms, because I could catch players off-guard thanks to the faster movement speed. Now, I play Pig and Cyclops more (I quit Storm Krok because the +25 really hurt the <50% health mechanic) with the occasional Minotaur. I'm really hoping the Fall Update fixes many of the issues plaguing Beastmoon.
Please, KI. Beastmoon is much less fun. I'm not opposed to keeping the late-join mechanic, but please shrink it to 5-10 seconds or create some (mild) punishment for it.
