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Level 58 spells solve a lot of problems

1
AuthorMessage
Defender
Feb 23, 2010
163
Took a look at the new level 58 spells on youtube, and I have to say, overall a great job. The spells will solve a lot of the biggest failings for a number of schools spells.

Life: Forest Lord. Life will finally have an attack all spell, and it's certainly enough of a hit to matter at high levels...especially given the size of life's attack boosts.

Myth: Medusa. Finally, there will be a big single strike myth attack. Minotaur and Orthrus are great for breaking through shields, but the lack of a big single strike myth attack makes it extremely difficult to fight myth bosses using prisms (you need two prisms for every sizable attack). The same problem arises when trying to use feint.

Death: Skeletal Dragon. 200 initial damage, and then damage over time. Basically, a death version of fire dragon. Good for fighting death shield happy life enemies. Won't have to waste deck space with lower level poison spell.

Balance: Ra. Think of it like power nova, only with much higher damage level and no weakness. Finally gives balance a great high level spell to pair with Judgment.

Fire: Efreet. Like Helephant, only stronger and it comes with a 90% fire shield.

Storm: Leviathan. Somewhat stronger than Triton, and it removes two positive charms from the target if it doesn't kill it.

Ice: Snow Angel. 100 initial damage, then 660 over 3 turns. Be careful, however, as it also casts taunt. So, make sure you're shielded first if you can.

So, to sum it up:
Ice spell is useful, but a little dangerous. Storm and fire schools get a boost in damage and positive secondary effects. Death gets a big attack that can burn through death shields, which is good as life enemies use death shields quite a bit. The biggest improvements are to balance, life, and myth. Balance gets the big attack spell (with a defined pip cost) it needed, and it hits all the enemies. Myth finally gets a big single-strike attack. This will make fighting myth bosses less excruciating, and means that feint will eventually be of use to myth wizards too. Life wizards finally get another big attack. The healing spells are great, but it's nice to be able to hit big too, and this big hit will hit every enemy in the battle. Finally. Again, great job KI.

Survivor
Nov 21, 2009
14
Defender
Apr 03, 2010
117
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2081
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


Yes, Yes, we understand all that, yet what you fail to realize, is that there is no shield to balance, there is no dispel. Now, you can add gargatuan +250 damage, plus Amplify either +15% or +20% to all attacks for 4 rounds, plus, balance blade, bladestorm, and if you smart, you got rid of useless Hydra, and got a pet with either DragonBlade +30 or a pet with Balance Blade which stacks with other balance blade, like my Pet, which has Balance it +5% accuracy, Spell Proof +9% shield to all attacks, Health Gift +120, and pips +5%. So, lets add that up. WOW Massive attack to all, that at most, you can tower shield? lol and people complain

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
399
darthjt wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


Yes, Yes, we understand all that, yet what you fail to realize, is that there is no shield to balance, there is no dispel. Now, you can add gargatuan +250 damage, plus Amplify either +15% or +20% to all attacks for 4 rounds, plus, balance blade, bladestorm, and if you smart, you got rid of useless Hydra, and got a pet with either DragonBlade +30 or a pet with Balance Blade which stacks with other balance blade, like my Pet, which has Balance it +5% accuracy, Spell Proof +9% shield to all attacks, Health Gift +120, and pips +5%. So, lets add that up. WOW Massive attack to all, that at most, you can tower shield? lol and people complain


Now, let's not forget the lack of Balance-specific Blades or Traps; Balance is also the only School with no Prism (not even a generic one).

As for defending, it's quite simple... oh, shoot. It involves actually knowing how to play. No wonder people complain.

Currently, the Balance average for Attacks to one enemy is 91.22, with AoE Spells dealing the Damage of an ASE (Attack on Single Enemy) Spell one Pip lower. Sooo... Ra should deal an average of 635 or 640. Let's say, 610-670 to all Enemies? That should do it.

Historian
May 02, 2009
698
stanklepoot wrote:
Fire: Efreet. Like Helephant, only stronger and it comes with a 90% fire shield.


Efreet doesnt put a fire shield on. What it actually does is after the attack, if the enemy is still alive, is that it puts a 90% weakness on the target. Hope I helped clarify it up.

Defender
Apr 03, 2010
117
darthjt wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


Yes, Yes, we understand all that, yet what you fail to realize, is that there is no shield to balance, there is no dispel. Now, you can add gargatuan +250 damage, plus Amplify either +15% or +20% to all attacks for 4 rounds, plus, balance blade, bladestorm, and if you smart, you got rid of useless Hydra, and got a pet with either DragonBlade +30 or a pet with Balance Blade which stacks with other balance blade, like my Pet, which has Balance it +5% accuracy, Spell Proof +9% shield to all attacks, Health Gift +120, and pips +5%. So, lets add that up. WOW Massive attack to all, that at most, you can tower shield? lol and people complain

Yes yes, we understand all that, but what you fail to realize is that balance is at an disadvantage even with this..

The 2 balance blades together, costing 1 pip total, does 45% more. Tower is 50, which brings the attack to -5%. Now, take for example a storm blade
( which gives the least amount of damage boost!) and an elemental blade, costing 1 pip. Then take an average glacial shield which takes the storm boost down to 0%, which is still more than balance.

Then take Myth and Fire, they get 10% more boost from shields, not to mention they can break through shields EXTREMELY easily, and dont tell me they cant, because I have a grandmaster in both of these..

Then take the rest of the schools which give 40%, which gives them a 15% more damage than balance...

And this is all fair because storm gets strongest attack so they get weakest boost, although a 5% is still helpful.

Fire and Myth get a big 10% boost, even though shields arent a big problem for them anyway.

The rest get 15% boost which makes up for their weaker attacks.

Now back to my point, a poster above me said that it was 91 damage per pip, and even if so, the average damage should be 735-740, rounded up and down.
Therefore, at weakest Ra is 100 damage off what it should be.

And also, you make it sound like balance is the only one that can use balance blades and such... and also in your post all of your spells took 5+ rounds to set up.. thats a lot, dontya think?

Survivor
Nov 23, 2008
4
stanklepoot wrote:
Took a look at the new level 58 spells on youtube, and I have to say, overall a great job. The spells will solve a lot of the biggest failings for a number of schools spells.

Life: Forest Lord. Life will finally have an attack all spell, and it's certainly enough of a hit to matter at high levels...especially given the size of life's attack boosts.

Myth: Medusa. Finally, there will be a big single strike myth attack. Minotaur and Orthrus are great for breaking through shields, but the lack of a big single strike myth attack makes it extremely difficult to fight myth bosses using prisms (you need two prisms for every sizable attack). The same problem arises when trying to use feint.

Death: Skeletal Dragon. 200 initial damage, and then damage over time. Basically, a death version of fire dragon. Good for fighting death shield happy life enemies. Won't have to waste deck space with lower level poison spell.

Balance: Ra. Think of it like power nova, only with much higher damage level and no weakness. Finally gives balance a great high level spell to pair with Judgment.

Fire: Efreet. Like Helephant, only stronger and it comes with a 90% fire shield.

Storm: Leviathan. Somewhat stronger than Triton, and it removes two positive charms from the target if it doesn't kill it.

Ice: Snow Angel. 100 initial damage, then 660 over 3 turns. Be careful, however, as it also casts taunt. So, make sure you're shielded first if you can.

So, to sum it up:
Ice spell is useful, but a little dangerous. Storm and fire schools get a boost in damage and positive secondary effects. Death gets a big attack that can burn through death shields, which is good as life enemies use death shields quite a bit. The biggest improvements are to balance, life, and myth. Balance gets the big attack spell (with a defined pip cost) it needed, and it hits all the enemies. Myth finally gets a big single-strike attack. This will make fighting myth bosses less excruciating, and means that feint will eventually be of use to myth wizards too. Life wizards finally get another big attack. The healing spells are great, but it's nice to be able to hit big too, and this big hit will hit every enemy in the battle. Finally. Again, great job KI.


Omg. I am an ice wizard, lvl 50. I sucked in pvp, then i made a defensive ice deck. I would block with tower shields and wait until I drew frostbite. Snow angel is basically a higher hitting version of it, however, it does taunt everybody. In my opinion, it's frostbite(5 pips, 70+470 over 3 rnds.) and taunt(2 pips)=7 pips, 540 damage and taunt. Now, for 1 extra pip add in 220 more damage. So, it's a lot better.

In shorter words, I Think KI got something right with ice for once

Survivor
Nov 23, 2008
4
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


You out of all people to complain. No offense, but actually try a better strategy? I am a lvl 50 ice, I use the rank 5 spell frostbite and I have no prob. I'm not saying I'm not going to use snow angel, but as a master of defense, I can block that with a tower shield only. I got my colossus over 42,000 with a boost, you would be at 30,000 with all your blades and hexes.
Do you know what that is divide by two? You made all those calculations up there.

Survivor
May 02, 2009
3
NuclearWar wrote:
darthjt wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


Yes, Yes, we understand all that, yet what you fail to realize, is that there is no shield to balance, there is no dispel. Now, you can add gargatuan +250 damage, plus Amplify either +15% or +20% to all attacks for 4 rounds, plus, balance blade, bladestorm, and if you smart, you got rid of useless Hydra, and got a pet with either DragonBlade +30 or a pet with Balance Blade which stacks with other balance blade, like my Pet, which has Balance it +5% accuracy, Spell Proof +9% shield to all attacks, Health Gift +120, and pips +5%. So, lets add that up. WOW Massive attack to all, that at most, you can tower shield? lol and people complain

Yes yes, we understand all that, but what you fail to realize is that balance is at an disadvantage even with this..

The 2 balance blades together, costing 1 pip total, does 45% more. Tower is 50, which brings the attack to -5%. Now, take for example a storm blade
( which gives the least amount of damage boost!) and an elemental blade, costing 1 pip. Then take an average glacial shield which takes the storm boost down to 0%, which is still more than balance.

Then take Myth and Fire, they get 10% more boost from shields, not to mention they can break through shields EXTREMELY easily, and dont tell me they cant, because I have a grandmaster in both of these..

Then take the rest of the schools which give 40%, which gives them a 15% more damage than balance...

And this is all fair because storm gets strongest attack so they get weakest boost, although a 5% is still helpful.

Fire and Myth get a big 10% boost, even though shields arent a big problem for them anyway.

The rest get 15% boost which makes up for their weaker attacks.

Now back to my point, a poster above me said that it was 91 damage per pip, and even if so, the average damage should be 735-740, rounded up and down.
Therefore, at weakest Ra is 100 damage off what it should be.

And also, you make it sound like balance is the only one that can use balance blades and such... and also in your post all of your spells took 5+ rounds to set up.. thats a lot, dontya think?

dont forget the clothes boosts so its pretty good with my triton without any blades boosts shields i hit 1000 and i trying to get leviathen i lvl 50almost 51

Edward Mooncloud storm lvl 50

Defender
Apr 03, 2010
117
kitkat23556 wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


You out of all people to complain. No offense, but actually try a better strategy? I am a lvl 50 ice, I use the rank 5 spell frostbite and I have no prob. I'm not saying I'm not going to use snow angel, but as a master of defense, I can block that with a tower shield only. I got my colossus over 42,000 with a boost, you would be at 30,000 with all your blades and hexes.
Do you know what that is divide by two? You made all those calculations up there.


Hmm.. I would take your advice but I think I am doing just fine with a warlord and 2 knights/captains.
oh my gosh! congratulations! you learned to use a spell! want a cookie? And since when are you the high and mighty "master of defence"? I am pretty sure with all of ice's protection cards like ice armor, tower shield, and their clothes boosting+ having TONS of health, It is kind of obvious that any ice wizard can have good defences..

And please tell me who is that stupid that they try to max in pvp!!!!

If I tried to set up a 30,000 hit, I would be dead by then...


Geographer
Jul 04, 2009
940
stanklepoot wrote:
Took a look at the new level 58 spells on youtube, and I have to say, overall a great job. The spells will solve a lot of the biggest failings for a number of schools spells.

Life: Forest Lord. Life will finally have an attack all spell, and it's certainly enough of a hit to matter at high levels...especially given the size of life's attack boosts.

Myth: Medusa. Finally, there will be a big single strike myth attack. Minotaur and Orthrus are great for breaking through shields, but the lack of a big single strike myth attack makes it extremely difficult to fight myth bosses using prisms (you need two prisms for every sizable attack). The same problem arises when trying to use feint.

Death: Skeletal Dragon. 200 initial damage, and then damage over time. Basically, a death version of fire dragon. Good for fighting death shield happy life enemies. Won't have to waste deck space with lower level poison spell.

Balance: Ra. Think of it like power nova, only with much higher damage level and no weakness. Finally gives balance a great high level spell to pair with Judgment.

Fire: Efreet. Like Helephant, only stronger and it comes with a 90% fire shield.

Storm: Leviathan. Somewhat stronger than Triton, and it removes two positive charms from the target if it doesn't kill it.

Ice: Snow Angel. 100 initial damage, then 660 over 3 turns. Be careful, however, as it also casts taunt. So, make sure you're shielded first if you can.

So, to sum it up:
Ice spell is useful, but a little dangerous. Storm and fire schools get a boost in damage and positive secondary effects. Death gets a big attack that can burn through death shields, which is good as life enemies use death shields quite a bit. The biggest improvements are to balance, life, and myth. Balance gets the big attack spell (with a defined pip cost) it needed, and it hits all the enemies. Myth finally gets a big single-strike attack. This will make fighting myth bosses less excruciating, and means that feint will eventually be of use to myth wizards too. Life wizards finally get another big attack. The healing spells are great, but it's nice to be able to hit big too, and this big hit will hit every enemy in the battle. Finally. Again, great job KI.


While all of this may sound nice, you fail to realize one very major flaw with these spells. They are level 58 spells. 58. In case you haven't realized it yet, you don't get them (or at least the opportunity to try for them) until you are level 58. You're going to be pretty close to finishing the game by then.

A little late to finally be getting those "balancing" spells, don't you think?

Survivor
Jun 12, 2010
7
I wish i could get my lvl 58 storm spell but the boss is so strong

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
NuclearWar wrote:
darthjt wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


Yes, Yes, we understand all that, yet what you fail to realize, is that there is no shield to balance, there is no dispel. Now, you can add gargatuan +250 damage, plus Amplify either +15% or +20% to all attacks for 4 rounds, plus, balance blade, bladestorm, and if you smart, you got rid of useless Hydra, and got a pet with either DragonBlade +30 or a pet with Balance Blade which stacks with other balance blade, like my Pet, which has Balance it +5% accuracy, Spell Proof +9% shield to all attacks, Health Gift +120, and pips +5%. So, lets add that up. WOW Massive attack to all, that at most, you can tower shield? lol and people complain

Yes yes, we understand all that, but what you fail to realize is that balance is at an disadvantage even with this..

The 2 balance blades together, costing 1 pip total, does 45% more. Tower is 50, which brings the attack to -5%. Now, take for example a storm blade
( which gives the least amount of damage boost!) and an elemental blade, costing 1 pip. Then take an average glacial shield which takes the storm boost down to 0%, which is still more than balance.

Then take Myth and Fire, they get 10% more boost from shields, not to mention they can break through shields EXTREMELY easily, and dont tell me they cant, because I have a grandmaster in both of these..

Then take the rest of the schools which give 40%, which gives them a 15% more damage than balance...

And this is all fair because storm gets strongest attack so they get weakest boost, although a 5% is still helpful.

Fire and Myth get a big 10% boost, even though shields arent a big problem for them anyway.

The rest get 15% boost which makes up for their weaker attacks.

Now back to my point, a poster above me said that it was 91 damage per pip, and even if so, the average damage should be 735-740, rounded up and down.
Therefore, at weakest Ra is 100 damage off what it should be.

And also, you make it sound like balance is the only one that can use balance blades and such... and also in your post all of your spells took 5+ rounds to set up.. thats a lot, dontya think?


don't you have damage boosting gear by the time you get Ra? I only have a grandmaster balance and he's up to over +30% balance damage boost already.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
NuclearWar wrote:
darthjt wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


Yes, Yes, we understand all that, yet what you fail to realize, is that there is no shield to balance, there is no dispel. Now, you can add gargatuan +250 damage, plus Amplify either +15% or +20% to all attacks for 4 rounds, plus, balance blade, bladestorm, and if you smart, you got rid of useless Hydra, and got a pet with either DragonBlade +30 or a pet with Balance Blade which stacks with other balance blade, like my Pet, which has Balance it +5% accuracy, Spell Proof +9% shield to all attacks, Health Gift +120, and pips +5%. So, lets add that up. WOW Massive attack to all, that at most, you can tower shield? lol and people complain

Yes yes, we understand all that, but what you fail to realize is that balance is at an disadvantage even with this..

The 2 balance blades together, costing 1 pip total, does 45% more. Tower is 50, which brings the attack to -5%. Now, take for example a storm blade
( which gives the least amount of damage boost!) and an elemental blade, costing 1 pip. Then take an average glacial shield which takes the storm boost down to 0%, which is still more than balance.

Then take Myth and Fire, they get 10% more boost from shields, not to mention they can break through shields EXTREMELY easily, and dont tell me they cant, because I have a grandmaster in both of these..

Then take the rest of the schools which give 40%, which gives them a 15% more damage than balance...

And this is all fair because storm gets strongest attack so they get weakest boost, although a 5% is still helpful.

Fire and Myth get a big 10% boost, even though shields arent a big problem for them anyway.

The rest get 15% boost which makes up for their weaker attacks.

Now back to my point, a poster above me said that it was 91 damage per pip, and even if so, the average damage should be 735-740, rounded up and down.
Therefore, at weakest Ra is 100 damage off what it should be.

And also, you make it sound like balance is the only one that can use balance blades and such... and also in your post all of your spells took 5+ rounds to set up.. thats a lot, dontya think?


Actually, I just re-read your post. Balance blade and bladestorm together comes out to a 50% boost, and should it hit a tower, you're down to 75% of the base hit strength. It doesn't sound like you know how it applies the math here. For your information, balance blade + bladestorm + tower shield would be figured like so:

1.25 x 1.20 x 0.50 = 0.75

If you have clothes, that figures in as well, like (assuming my clothing at +30%) so:

1.30 x 1.25 x 1.20 x 0.50 = 0.975

Does that make sense?

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
All in all the new spells are good and some may argue some are too good (Efreet/medusa *cough* *cough*), but i won't. :)

But Balance really drew the short straw of all the schools. Ra spells is utter useless to be frank. No way i'd ever in pve or pvp cast Ra for 8 pip more and a little more dmg over nova. No little extra damage makes it worth the extra pip and getting a stackable weakness on all opponents.

Ra would have been an acceptable spell to get at lvl 30 maybe, nova still is sooo much better.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Mordikay wrote:
All in all the new spells are good and some may argue some are too good (Efreet/medusa *cough* *cough*), but i won't. :)

But Balance really drew the short straw of all the schools. Ra spells is utter useless to be frank. No way i'd ever in pve or pvp cast Ra for 8 pip more and a little more dmg over nova. No little extra damage makes it worth the extra pip and getting a stackable weakness on all opponents.

Ra would have been an acceptable spell to get at lvl 30 maybe, nova still is sooo much better.


But isn't that what makes it better than Nova? Its a damage spell instead of a charm spell. You can add gargantuan, monstrous, etc. With gear boosts and a couple of blades, this spell can deal a lot of unstoppable (meaning only tower or balance resistance can mitigate it) damage for only 1 pip more than Nova. I can't wait to get this spell for my balance. Its a room clearing spell in PvE in most cases and I think thats a LOT better than leaving weakness on a still breathing enemy.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
gtarhannon wrote:
Mordikay wrote:
All in all the new spells are good and some may argue some are too good (Efreet/medusa *cough* *cough*), but i won't. :)

But Balance really drew the short straw of all the schools. Ra spells is utter useless to be frank. No way i'd ever in pve or pvp cast Ra for 8 pip more and a little more dmg over nova. No little extra damage makes it worth the extra pip and getting a stackable weakness on all opponents.

Ra would have been an acceptable spell to get at lvl 30 maybe, nova still is sooo much better.


But isn't that what makes it better than Nova? Its a damage spell instead of a charm spell. You can add gargantuan, monstrous, etc. With gear boosts and a couple of blades, this spell can deal a lot of unstoppable (meaning only tower or balance resistance can mitigate it) damage for only 1 pip more than Nova. I can't wait to get this spell for my balance. Its a room clearing spell in PvE in most cases and I think thats a LOT better than leaving weakness on a still breathing enemy.


The dmg upgrade is minor from nova. Sure ok the spell might have it's uses if you are hell bend on soloing, but really killing anything worthwhile in CL you will not have time to blade and hex/feint up to one shot any of the mobs you engage at 58+ and i said worthwhile as in bosses where you will not be solo and you blades are better spend on other people and your pips better spend on debuffing the boss and everyone else.

And lets not get into pvp where novas weakness stacks with 3 others.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Mordikay wrote:

The dmg upgrade is minor from nova. Sure ok the spell might have it's uses if you are hell bend on soloing, but really killing anything worthwhile in CL you will not have time to blade and hex/feint up to one shot any of the mobs you engage at 58+ and i said worthwhile as in bosses where you will not be solo and you blades are better spend on other people and your pips better spend on debuffing the boss and everyone else.

And lets not get into pvp where novas weakness stacks with 3 others.


Ok. Quick scenario:

My currently level 49 (I was holding off playing him to 50 until after Celestia went live so that I don't waste any XP from quests) has +34% balance damage with gear. I generally start with 2 power pips. I cast balance blade (25%), then dragon blade (30%) meaning no wasted pips so far. Generally, I have 4 power pips now, but occasionally not. I also understand that I may have to cast shields first in Celestia depending on the enemies, but I have to do that regardless of the first attack spell I cast which makes it irrelavent to this conversation.

The gargantuan learned spell (+225 to damage spells) is available to me by the time I get the spell quest for Ra. That means my base Ra damage can be bumped from 560-640 to 785-865. Without wasting any pips, I can now cast my gargantuan Ra for damage in the range of 1709-1883 balance damage to all enemies. That's room clearing damage in 2 rounds, and since I did my example with level 49 gear, I likely deal quite a bit more damage than that BEFORE a chance of critical hit. Should I critical in that scenario, the damage would be in the range of 3418-3767.

I assumed no wasting of time for amplify or treasure balance blade, no wasting pips for bladestorm, and no round wasting for any traps. In a PvE scenario, this is an awesome spell for balance and I don't see it as the short end of the stick even remotely, and particularly in comparison to nova.

Just a proof on my math:

1.34 x 1.25 x 1.30 = 2.1775
With Crit: 1.34 x 1.25 x 1.30 x 2.00 = 4.355
560 + 225 = 785
640 + 225 = 865

Low Range: 785 x 2.1775 = 1709.3375
Crit Low Range: 785 x 4.355 = 3418.675
High Range: 865 x 2.1775 = 1883.5375
Crit High Range: 865 x 4.355 = 3767.075

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
I've been 60 and have been farming end bosses dayli for a bit now and the only time i ever use RA spell in pve is on astreaus and only when i have weakness on. I have not found any other use for the spell in pve or pvp yet.

Let me get you in some pointers:

You don't really draw dragon blade that often even if you bother with a pet that has it.

You don't crit that often even with the best gear and wand it's still under 20%.

Your blades are far better spend on a storm, fire, death, heck even ice wizard now then yourself and you aint going to be soloing any of these bosses and probably not many mobs either.

Bladed up with the 2 most likely blades you can draw even if you chose to put bladestorm in your deck (which i don't really use as your pips are most likely spend better elsewhere unless you always team up with 3 other damage wizards) your Ra will hit for around 1k in the best gear avalible most of the time.

The above is not counting loads of mobs and bosses in CL frequently cast tower shield. Also not counting that mobs mobs and bosses open with spells like Heliphant and above the first round. You won't have the turns to blade up nilly willy as you need those shields up (was going 2nd against one of the endgame bosses today and got 1900 hit on me the first spell, still won but not the point,). So no you won't have time to blade yourself up, hex and feint or you will be biting the floor and as said they are way better spend cast on someone else.

Last note is that the bare minimum hp of weakest mobs in CL have 1250 hp. Even assuming you stay alive to get bladed up or spend a tremendous amount of time healing in between even with BB and BS you will not kill the weakest mobs in 1 shot with RA most of the time and many "normal" mobs have 2400 and above in HP.

So in conclusion, Ra= utter waste of pip cept for the 1 incident i mentioned.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Mordikay wrote:
I've been 60 and have been farming end bosses dayli for a bit now and the only time i ever use RA spell in pve is on astreaus and only when i have weakness on. I have not found any other use for the spell in pve or pvp yet.

While I'm not there with my balance, I am there with my ice and have been there for some time.

Mordikay wrote:
Let me get you in some pointers:

You don't really draw dragon blade that often even if you bother with a pet that has it.

You don't crit that often even with the best gear and wand it's still under 20%.

I am aware that there is typically only one balance blade in your deck. That's why I used a simple example and didn't include things like star spells or other possible blades. I am also aware that crit doesn't happen often, that's why I mentioned it as a possibility and I apologize if you took it to mean that it should be relied upon.

Mordikay wrote:
Your blades are far better spend on a storm, fire, death, heck even ice wizard now then yourself and you aint going to be soloing any of these bosses and probably not many mobs either.

Oh, but I will solo a lot of these bosses and mobs. I enjoy the challenge. However, when I play in a group, communication about luck of the deck and best use of force and blades is indeed a must.

Mordikay wrote:
Bladed up with the 2 most likely blades you can draw even if you chose to put bladestorm in your deck (which i don't really use as your pips are most likely spend better elsewhere unless you always team up with 3 other damage wizards) your Ra will hit for around 1k in the best gear avalible most of the time.

You leave out the new astral spells as well as assume that you and I stack our decks in a similar manner. While I agree that pip management is paramount to a successful duel, most classes have to spend pips for blade stacking in order to "clear the house" in one hit. I don't know what you're doing, or what your gear looks like, but I hit level 50 last night and I'm now at +35% balance damage in gear. Assuming that figure doesn't rise and assuming only a balance blade and star spell for +15% damage have been cast, I have your minimum balance damage for gargantuan Ra still at 1523.

Mordikay wrote:
The above is not counting loads of mobs and bosses in CL frequently cast tower shield. Also not counting that mobs mobs and bosses open with spells like Heliphant and above the first round. You won't have the turns to blade up nilly willy as you need those shields up (was going 2nd against one of the endgame bosses today and got 1900 hit on me the first spell, still won but not the point,). So no you won't have time to blade yourself up, hex and feint or you will be biting the floor and as said they are way better spend cast on someone else.

Last note is that the bare minimum hp of weakest mobs in CL have 1250 hp. Even assuming you stay alive to get bladed up or spend a tremendous amount of time healing in between even with BB and BS you will not kill the weakest mobs in 1 shot with RA most of the time and many "normal" mobs have 2400 and above in HP.

Almost without exclusion, what you refer to here are bosses, or ice enemies. I never said that you wouldn't have to adjust your strategy for those few situations. I also didn't say that you could end a boss with that damage. However, getting rid of all his minions so that you can judge him would be a viable strategy.

Mordikay wrote:

So in conclusion, Ra= utter waste of pip cept for the 1 incident i mentioned.

As you appear unswayed by basic math, we'll have to agree to disagree here.

In conclusion, you're assertion was that Ra was the short end of the stick in the rank 8 spells. You also implied that Nova was a better use of pips vs. Ra. Because of the damage you can do with this spell, and in particular because it is balance damage, it is clearly NOT the short end of the stick. Four of the seven rank 8 spells are single hitters. By virtue of that fact alone, it isn't the short end of the stick.

You seem to hint at using a play style for your balance that I refer to as "helpful mander" mode. I will concede that Ra does not factor in well with that mode. However, you seem unable to consider that other people may have different play styles. I look at everything in this game mathematically. In comparison to everything else, Ra is far from the short end of the stick.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
To answer what could be a question, no your damage doesn't really go up from DS. Only power pip, resists, hp and crit/block does.

Your math is correct sure but personally i don't like taking high amounts of damage and are most of the time busy shielding to be casting blades. I don't have aplify trained myself and don't think i will (still pondering what to use the last 2 training points for) as i pvp too.

So yes you can clear minion that:
Don't tower.
Aint balance or stellar mobs.
Aint ice, life, death or myth mobs (90% of those have 1680 or so hp)
Stay alive long enough if you just plan on blading and aplify.
Wish to spend treasure cards all the time (although you can only buy monstrous from vendor unless you buy gargantuan from bazaar or can craft it).
Love long battles.
Don't plan on killing bosses that drops anything worthwhile.

Yeah i do play "helpfull mander" if you want to call it that. I know you don't solo the bosses that drop anything worthwhile so i play my balance a lot like i play him in pvp as a minion deck. Sure i don't have infection ect in it and actually i've taken judgement out too for pve now while farming the last bosses(over and over). I team with my GFs Storm 100% of the time until we have our Fire and Myth wizards lvl 60 too.

Tbh i don't have anything i really need or want to do solo at lvl 60. I already have close to the best gear in every slot(missing getting pet to epic, robe and shoes) and those that drop it can't be done solo...ok maybe they can by some wierd tactic, that takes a couple of hours to do. I don't forsee any balance or any other wizard downing Astraeus solo anytime soon or why you would even spend the hours to do so required if you wanted.

So again in short i'd rather spend 1 less pip even though i actually have 100% power pip chance to compliment damage with nova and leave a weakness(gotta love weakness) that stacks with 3 other weakness spells then cast Ra.

All this have mainly been pve of course, if you want to get into pvp for the new spells balance didn't just get screwed as for new spells, we might as well not have gotten one or just been giving a new rank 5 or 6 spell.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Mordikay wrote:

So again in short i'd rather spend 1 less pip even though i actually have 100% power pip chance to compliment damage with nova and leave a weakness(gotta love weakness) that stacks with 3 other weakness spells then cast Ra.

All this have mainly been pve of course, if you want to get into pvp for the new spells balance didn't just get screwed as for new spells, we might as well not have gotten one or just been giving a new rank 5 or 6 spell.


If that's your play style, cool. Acting like balance got hosed because Ra is contrary to how you play is where I take issue though. You keep implying that nova weakness on everyone (which is stackable with other spells, but many of those are not AoE spells) makes more sense than taking one extra round to buff and finish most of them off. So, since I seem to have to spell it out for you, here's the final math on a standard three buff use of Ra that will finish most everyone off without dragonblade or treasure cards. To be clear, I am implying that you can buff further for special case scenarios.

Gear + balance blade + amplify + bladestorm + gargantuan Ra (yes, it requires one whole pip for this combo)

1.35 x 1.25 x 1.15 x 1.20 = 2.32875 : 2.32875 * 785 = 1828.06875
(minimum damage)

Maximum damage (yes, this does assume you critical because otherwise it would be maximum non-critical damage) is 4028.7375 per enemy.

Of course your mileage will vary with ice (more life and often spam tower shields) and balance (because of resist) enemies. I don't generally PvP, but I fail to see how Balance got it any worse in that arena than anyone else unless all you do in there is go 1 on 1. Look, this will be my last post on the subject as I'm not trying to get into a fight. I also hope that you don't find me insulting, because that is not what this is about. However, our back and forth on this subject makes me believe that you haven't fully considered how many more options balance just got with this spell vs. where it was at when your best spell was nova.

If all you want to do is boost others, keep enemies weak, and I assume defend with shields, then by all means go for it. That is a perfectly valid strategy in many cases but that doesn't mean that Ra was the short end of the stick for balance. It simply means that it was the short end of the stick for how you happen to play balance.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Nah i don't find you rude and this is what forums are for, open discussion.

As i mentioned i personally never solo as i always run around with one of my GFs wizard weather she plays or not :P.

My playstyle is quite similar to pvp i guess wearing the enemy down taking minimum damage by using weakness which imo is on of the best spells balance has and i'm guessing 99% of pvp players will agree here.

Sure you can clear smaller mobs with ra and i guess that's fine if you solo sometimes even though CL is not suited for it and impossible to solo some bosses, so why bother? But that's me and i guess it's not everyone that has acces to always be in a grp of minimum 2 players 100% of the time either.

But as far as what have been mentioned several times not only by us "the short end of the stick" as referred to. Balance Ra spell is very weak compared to ALL the other lvl 58 spells.

Some may argue Snow angel or forest lord as it's less dmg then Ra.

Not in my eyes though as Snow angel is an aoe shield remover which is extremly powerfull and ok it taunts but hey in pve ice wizards are supposed to be the "tanks".

As for Forest lord, life has weaker attacks then everyone else as that's how the school is. But you have to remember that life has a stronger 40% blade and they finally have a minion killer spell now which in my eyes also makes it better then Ra.

I don't think i should need to explain why the other spells are better then Ra...just take a look at how crazy Efreet is and you have the answer. :D

Survivor
Oct 31, 2009
8
gtarhannon wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
darthjt wrote:
NuclearWar wrote:
The balance spell has the range of a rank 6 spell. 560-640, right in the middle is 600, which is just about balance's average, 99.7 damage per pip.

If it gives no side affect, it should be 760-840, if not it should give some sort of special effect.


Yes, Yes, we understand all that, yet what you fail to realize, is that there is no shield to balance, there is no dispel. Now, you can add gargatuan +250 damage, plus Amplify either +15% or +20% to all attacks for 4 rounds, plus, balance blade, bladestorm, and if you smart, you got rid of useless Hydra, and got a pet with either DragonBlade +30 or a pet with Balance Blade which stacks with other balance blade, like my Pet, which has Balance it +5% accuracy, Spell Proof +9% shield to all attacks, Health Gift +120, and pips +5%. So, lets add that up. WOW Massive attack to all, that at most, you can tower shield? lol and people complain

Yes yes, we understand all that, but what you fail to realize is that balance is at an disadvantage even with this..

The 2 balance blades together, costing 1 pip total, does 45% more. Tower is 50, which brings the attack to -5%. Now, take for example a storm blade
( which gives the least amount of damage boost!) and an elemental blade, costing 1 pip. Then take an average glacial shield which takes the storm boost down to 0%, which is still more than balance.

Then take Myth and Fire, they get 10% more boost from shields, not to mention they can break through shields EXTREMELY easily, and dont tell me they cant, because I have a grandmaster in both of these..

Then take the rest of the schools which give 40%, which gives them a 15% more damage than balance...

And this is all fair because storm gets strongest attack so they get weakest boost, although a 5% is still helpful.

Fire and Myth get a big 10% boost, even though shields arent a big problem for them anyway.

The rest get 15% boost which makes up for their weaker attacks.

Now back to my point, a poster above me said that it was 91 damage per pip, and even if so, the average damage should be 735-740, rounded up and down.
Therefore, at weakest Ra is 100 damage off what it should be.

And also, you make it sound like balance is the only one that can use balance blades and such... and also in your post all of your spells took 5+ rounds to set up.. thats a lot, dontya think?


Actually, I just re-read your post. Balance blade and bladestorm together comes out to a 50% boost, and should it hit a tower, you're down to 75% of the base hit strength. It doesn't sound like you know how it applies the math here. For your information, balance blade + bladestorm + tower shield would be figured like so:

1.25 x 1.20 x 0.50 = 0.75

If you have clothes, that figures in as well, like (assuming my clothing at +30%) so:

1.30 x 1.25 x 1.20 x 0.50 = 0.975

Does that make sense?


No.

1