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A Thank You and a Plea

1
AuthorMessage
Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
I would like to thank KI for the new world of Azteca. Despite its early release and a plethora of minor bugs I must say that Azteca is by far my favorite world. The challenge posed by the monsters is refreshing and enjoyable. Never before have I had to use a PvP mindset when facing mobs but with this world I do. Pip counting, health buffering, expected spell output and even deck manipulation all play a key role in fights. Boss fights present an excellent challenge and the lvl 88 storm spell quest was the first time in a long time that it has taken me three tries to beat a boss. I also love the fact that monsters use spells that would typically only be seen in the arena. Mana Burn, Enfeeble, Virulent Plague and shields such as Glacial, Volcanic and Tower all add to the unique Azteca experience. I am absolutely loving it.

That being said, many casual players are not having as grand a time. Players without the best pets or gear are struggling to get by in this world. Even those with the waterworks gear often find themselves waylaid by an extremely high mob and boss critical rate. There is quite a steep learning curve in this world and as a result many casual players are being turned away. Something needs to be done. This game should not only be enjoyable to players like me but also to a younger or more casual audience. While a general game difficulty nerf has been proposed I believe that there are other options that would make Azteca more enjoyable to casual players without a corresponding nerf. A large part of the issue is not simply the world difficulty but also the gear that is being dropped and the pets that are available. Gear dropped in Azteca is nowhere near the level needed to compete with the monsters and bosses that players face. I propose adding easily accessible dropped gear to the game that emphasizes universal resist and block without completely neutering other stats. An additional option is simply to have help tutorials available at the respective class trainers. Azteca requires extensive knowledge to play effectively. I think that simple tutorials on pip management, effective convert use and even health management would be of great help. Finally an improvement in pet talent manifestation is in order. Already, most pets come with built in spritely at teen and I commend you on such. However perhaps it is time for pets with built in spritely at teen and spell proof (or even defy) at adult so that players can have a helpful talent set without the gargantuan effort that a mega pet requires. With these 2 changes I think it would be entirely possible to make Azteca enjoyable to casual players without detracting from the challenge that other players and I so enjoy.

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
I know some players will curse me for this but asking to make the game easier will only result to players asking for a harder tweak again. So it might pose more problems than actually helping casual gamers. I also enjoyed AZ so much the enemies actually "think" and is not there as cannon fodder. But to judge what others can and cannot do and completely cutting them off of what i experienced so far is not my cup of tea. Ill try to explain things as objectively as I can to create a healthy discussion on this topic.
  • Gears. if AZ drops improves, quality wise, it will render crafting useless. There are haters of this game mechanic but it is essential to balance those who can and cannot buy packs or crown gears all the time. I think its better to have easier recipes than asking for better drops.
  • Pets. Asking for a better manifestation of good talents may result to a feeding frezy by experienced gamers making even wider gaps among players. I cannot explain it much better, but i do see players finishing AZ with not-so-good pet talents. This alone defeats the need for it now.
  • Tutorial. This i completely agree with. I am for better helpful instructions among gamers than tweaking the game whenever it gets difficult. If I may add, The new star and sun school spells demands for more knowledge in blade stacking. An explanation of crucial timing and casting of important old spells too like Empowerment, Conviction, etc. (star school aura) and as simple as Colossal (Sun) will be great.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 26, 2012 wrote:
I would like to thank KI for the new world of Azteca. Despite its early release and a plethora of minor bugs I must say that Azteca is by far my favorite world. The challenge posed by the monsters is refreshing and enjoyable. Never before have I had to use a PvP mindset when facing mobs but with this world I do. Pip counting, health buffering, expected spell output and even deck manipulation all play a key role in fights. Boss fights present an excellent challenge and the lvl 88 storm spell quest was the first time in a long time that it has taken me three tries to beat a boss. I also love the fact that monsters use spells that would typically only be seen in the arena. Mana Burn, Enfeeble, Virulent Plague and shields such as Glacial, Volcanic and Tower all add to the unique Azteca experience. I am absolutely loving it.

That being said, many casual players are not having as grand a time. Players without the best pets or gear are struggling to get by in this world. Even those with the waterworks gear often find themselves waylaid by an extremely high mob and boss critical rate. There is quite a steep learning curve in this world and as a result many casual players are being turned away. Something needs to be done. This game should not only be enjoyable to players like me but also to a younger or more casual audience. While a general game difficulty nerf has been proposed I believe that there are other options that would make Azteca more enjoyable to casual players without a corresponding nerf. A large part of the issue is not simply the world difficulty but also the gear that is being dropped and the pets that are available. Gear dropped in Azteca is nowhere near the level needed to compete with the monsters and bosses that players face. I propose adding easily accessible dropped gear to the game that emphasizes universal resist and block without completely neutering other stats. An additional option is simply to have help tutorials available at the respective class trainers. Azteca requires extensive knowledge to play effectively. I think that simple tutorials on pip management, effective convert use and even health management would be of great help. Finally an improvement in pet talent manifestation is in order. Already, most pets come with built in spritely at teen and I commend you on such. However perhaps it is time for pets with built in spritely at teen and spell proof (or even defy) at adult so that players can have a helpful talent set without the gargantuan effort that a mega pet requires. With these 2 changes I think it would be entirely possible to make Azteca enjoyable to casual players without detracting from the challenge that other players and I so enjoy.
This post is very well said, you seem to fully understand us casual game players.

In all worlds there is always a way to make it a challenge for your wizard starting with Wizard City. The lack of being able to get proper gear should not be one of them. Sadly many do not even get the WW gear and end up with a mish mash of gear to try to get by with. How many menu chat do you see in upper worlds? The kids game ends in Mooshu - if they even get though Marleybone's with it's lack of being able to get around doesn't weed them out.

I have a family member that insists on doing new worlds. I literately carried her though Avalon so she would be able to enter AZ - she was defeated 3 times in a row by the mob in the first quest fight and quit.

She was sure the Storm wizard she has would be the only one she can play there. She had dropped the Storm wizard mid Avalon due to constant defeat and we had continued with her life. Here and there she did manage to get help for Avalon accept for the ending instances which I agreed to help with.

We completed Pendragon, she entered AZ, got the first quest and hasn't been on the game since. She needs a break I gather from the head banging fighting. She will only play a short time now since this type of world does seem to drain her faster. I don't see her getting past the first area with out realizing she can not do this world.

She has no idea how to set up the needed stats for this world in gear, her deck is packed with useless spells and she always is waiting for the right one, we go over this many times but she insists she needs those spells. I gave in for Avalon to help with her life wizard but will not be for Azteca. My level 80 Life wizard has now left the building so to speak.

I know most consider this type of game play a challenge but I consider it boring and drawn out with the same ole same ole figure out every move play. Way to tedious for me. I was quite able to carry others though Avalon but I don't think I will be able to comfortably in AZ and frankly do not see any point to it.

I now have no problem with making and deleting wizards so you can now find me in the first arc of the game - the one I originally joined Wizard101 for. Just because the game has gone beyond my liking doesn't mean I have to quit I just take out of it what I want.

I imagine just at the time I get tired of playing the same arc over and over again my yearly membership will be up anyway and like many others I know, I will move on to another game.

Survivor
May 07, 2011
43
I agree with your assessment, FatesKin. I liked the world very much and thought the challenge level was completely appropriate. There is a large outcry that this world has been too difficult and that a solution for the younger or more casual players is needed.

I'd lean towards expanding the mid-level game content like KI did with Wysteria as a way to appease the players who don't like such a high level of difficulty. Simpler areas for people who don't want to struggle quite so much but provide fresh content and maybe access to some more mid-level spells. And as a way to keep the higher leveled players intrigued, round out these worlds with repeatable dungeons such as we have with TotH, WW and ML. Even if the rewards are a just the opportunity to win Mega-Snacks, the added variety would be welcomed.

As for your idea of gaining more useful equipment, I think we're about due for a new dungeon we could work towards earning some of that as well. I think you're on the right tack when you say we need more block and resist. Perhaps those stats increased with a little bit more damage than we get out of our WW gear and I think we'd not only be well suited to Azteca but ready for a new world that is more difficult still.

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
nullsar it just seems like you want all casual gamers to quit. have you forgoten this is a family game?
that being said, here is my idea. make easy and normal difficulty servers. that way the casual players could play on the easy servers if the world ends up to hard for them.

oh, and one more thing. sar, the gear thats droped sucks if you have ww gear or crafted gear(avalon crafted gear is better than azteca crafted gear). if you have found some mirical gear that gives universal resist and good block and critical and damage boost then i would be happy to go and get me some of that gear

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
gweedoboy on Nov 28, 2012 wrote:
nullsar it just seems like you want all casual gamers to quit. have you forgoten this is a family game?
that being said, here is my idea. make easy and normal difficulty servers. that way the casual players could play on the easy servers if the world ends up to hard for them.

oh, and one more thing. sar, the gear thats droped sucks if you have ww gear or crafted gear(avalon crafted gear is better than azteca crafted gear). if you have found some mirical gear that gives universal resist and good block and critical and damage boost then i would be happy to go and get me some of that gear
First off, i hope you find the time to play the world before commenting, Im tired of reading your posts raging about gears without even trying to. Dont let someone else find gears for you. Again, read between the lines, AZ drops have resists gears as i said in my other post. Most people finished with the same gear they had on even before AZ went live. Crafted gears is there and a slight improvement of AV gears but you cant get it unless you finish the transcendent crafters quest. AV crafted gear is better than AZ crafted gear? oh boy, play the game

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
Monsoon Jo on Nov 27, 2012 wrote:
I know some players will curse me for this but asking to make the game easier will only result to players asking for a harder tweak again. So it might pose more problems than actually helping casual gamers. I also enjoyed AZ so much the enemies actually "think" and is not there as cannon fodder. But to judge what others can and cannot do and completely cutting them off of what i experienced so far is not my cup of tea. Ill try to explain things as objectively as I can to create a healthy discussion on this topic.
  • Gears. if AZ drops improves, quality wise, it will render crafting useless. There are haters of this game mechanic but it is essential to balance those who can and cannot buy packs or crown gears all the time. I think its better to have easier recipes than asking for better drops.
  • Pets. Asking for a better manifestation of good talents may result to a feeding frezy by experienced gamers making even wider gaps among players. I cannot explain it much better, but i do see players finishing AZ with not-so-good pet talents. This alone defeats the need for it now.
  • Tutorial. This i completely agree with. I am for better helpful instructions among gamers than tweaking the game whenever it gets difficult. If I may add, The new star and sun school spells demands for more knowledge in blade stacking. An explanation of crucial timing and casting of important old spells too like Empowerment, Conviction, etc. (star school aura) and as simple as Colossal (Sun) will be great.
Thank You for your comments Sarahnimo. Here are my responses to some of what you have said.

1)Gear- Azteca gear has improved from Avalon, no argument there. However, the gear is not enough to compete with the monsters. The statistics are not balanced at all. Their is still a very large gap between the best gear and the dropped gear. What I am proposing is to have dropped gear that inhabits a middle ground of sorts. Gear that is not as good as the crafted gear but is better than what is currently dropped. That way players can have functional gear wheras the best gear in the game would still be obtained via crafting/farming. I propose using statistical distribution found on the crafted gear as the model for the dropped gear and just have the easily obtained dropped gear have sligthly lower stats than the crafted gear.

2)Pets- Most players with good/great pets already have a pet with the talents I wish to see inserted into typical pets. As a result I forsee no feeding frenzy occuring. If I already have a SPUD pet it makes no difference if spell proof and spritely were built into pets that are easily acquired and trained by casual players. Yes people can finish Azteca with bad talents, no doubt about it. But is it fun, is it enjoyable and is pushing through the world with these pets a good experience? Judging from the widespread complaints I would think not.

Hero
Dec 16, 2009
773
A thanks to everyone for their comments. While debating is a great tool for analysis I would like to encourage all those posting here not to make personal attacks. If you disagree with the points fair enough, but lets not attack our fellow wizard(s).

Survivor
Jan 18, 2012
32
I just wanted to toss in my two cents. I just finished Azteca with my Death Mage. I did most of it solo, but required help on several dungeons and the end dungeon. I've got "perfect" pets and crafted gear, lots of it. What I can tell you is this: it is very important to switch around your gear based on your opponent's school so that you can maximize your resist that that particular school. If that means dropping some damage %, then so be it. I would routinely put on a different hat or shoes to maximize my resist. It helps a lot. I'm happy to offer more tips, but that one is key.

Also, not sure what others are doing, but in a boss fight - you should almost always kill the minion first and skew your resist to the boss's school. Deck management is key too. Having a huge deck tends to be a hinderance - not a help. Your goal is to toss out as much damage as possible while trying to minimize your own. Death has one key advantage there - I would build up a wraith or monster and quickly kill a minion in a boss fight and be back to full health to take on the boss.

The Azteca fights simply require a little more thought before jumping right into them. With the right planning, you can survive. I will say this - I got bored by the end, not by the story or anything, but by the gameplay. One had to kill a few mobs, kill a boss, repeat ad nauseum. They didn't do much to mix things up a bit. Plus, I did do all the side quests - nothing really out of the ordinary there.

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
Monsoon Jo on Nov 29, 2012 wrote:
First off, i hope you find the time to play the world before commenting, Im tired of reading your posts raging about gears without even trying to. Dont let someone else find gears for you. Again, read between the lines, AZ drops have resists gears as i said in my other post. Most people finished with the same gear they had on even before AZ went live. Crafted gears is there and a slight improvement of AV gears but you cant get it unless you finish the transcendent crafters quest. AV crafted gear is better than AZ crafted gear? oh boy, play the game
lol i did the test realm and completed almost the entire world. first of all im sorry if i went on a rant about the fail gear but im just really sick of my ww gear, i want something better but ki has only given me gear witch would hurt my wizards stats pretty badly(i fear some people may be level 100 and still wear ww gear). second of all my memory isint perfect so i may have been wrong about azteca crafted gear being better then avalons so ill take another look at it. third of all ill try to not rage about the fail gear anymore because you seem to be offended by it.

Survivor
May 24, 2009
24
It's all about strategy, and it's really not that hard. Even for a Life wizard like myself, which is the weakest school, Azteca should not be that difficult even with the fact that my spells aren't that strong. All you need to do is think. I have pretty good, average gear and my health is about 100 over 4,000. By this time in the game, I've managed to set up my deck pretty well since I only need about one of each spell in there. Fighting bosses isn't hard if you plan your deck and the spells you cast correctly, depending on their school and how many pips they begin with. Even though it's just a game, you kind of have to learn to think a few steps ahead of the enemies. I've basically soloed all of the bosses and dungeons up to Saltwater Swamp, which is where I'm at. With mobs it's easier to fight in groups since you get more done faster. If you're going into dungeons alone, have three potions to refill when you really need it. Pace yourself in battles. It's really not about how long you take to defeat a boss. It could take me nearly 40 minutes for one boss but it's not hard. Just balance yourself between blading, healing, trapping, and shielding. Don't let your health begin to get low, keep it somewhere in the middle. Think of it like PvP and think before your opponents. And to Kingsisle, please don't make it easier. I understand that casual players would think of these challenges as unreasonable, but honestly you'd think that once you began to get into the levels of 60, 70, or 80 that there would more challenges. There are advanced players who play just for the challenges, like myself. It's going to get harder, so I think casual players should really think about how they want to continue. Either way, it's not going to be fun for someone. Make it hard, the casual players dislike it. Make it easy, the advanced players dislike it. We can't win.

-Brianna SpiritBreeze, Level 82 Theurgist

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
Thanks FatesKin for the call for some civility in this thread.

Gears. Honestly i wish there is something like it. But what you maybe describing is out there already. Its none other than the craftable Avalon gears themselves. I doubt if there is anymore room for a middleground gear drop between AV arc gears downwards and what AZ offers. If you check closely there is not much difference in AZ and AV crafted gears other than a few adjustments in life points and barely anything else. So it is provided for already. but you must work for it. That is, in fact, the reason why so many can withstand AZ with what they have on already. That being said, your middleground gear drop may have been the "sort" I was suggesting, an easier tweak on crafting recipes so casual gamers can get their hands on them mixed with WW sets. Problem is, there is still a lot of gamers not even interested in crafting, its something out of KI's hands already.

Pets. I cant even judge if the root of widespread complaints came from poor pets and it being connected to the fun factor of AZ. What i can see are players heaving a sigh of relief when finished despite the lack of talented pets. It will totally be void of fun if they cant finish the game at all but the fact is most can. The experience they get out of it may vary, but still the outcome defeats the need to send an SOS to KI. When Celestia came out. It was widely thought that the difficulty was a giant leap too back then. But no global tweaking of pet manifesting likable talents happened and yet there are multitudes of perfect pets out right now.

As part of the solution. I agree with toller99, in addition there are several unsung hero spells that i found very useful in AZ. Old spells like Empowerment, Cleanse, Feint, Shields and efficient use of prisms comes to mind.

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
Monsoon Jo on Dec 1, 2012 wrote:
Thanks FatesKin for the call for some civility in this thread.

Gears. Honestly i wish there is something like it. But what you maybe describing is out there already. Its none other than the craftable Avalon gears themselves. I doubt if there is anymore room for a middleground gear drop between AV arc gears downwards and what AZ offers. If you check closely there is not much difference in AZ and AV crafted gears other than a few adjustments in life points and barely anything else. So it is provided for already. but you must work for it. That is, in fact, the reason why so many can withstand AZ with what they have on already. That being said, your middleground gear drop may have been the "sort" I was suggesting, an easier tweak on crafting recipes so casual gamers can get their hands on them mixed with WW sets. Problem is, there is still a lot of gamers not even interested in crafting, its something out of KI's hands already.

Pets. I cant even judge if the root of widespread complaints came from poor pets and it being connected to the fun factor of AZ. What i can see are players heaving a sigh of relief when finished despite the lack of talented pets. It will totally be void of fun if they cant finish the game at all but the fact is most can. The experience they get out of it may vary, but still the outcome defeats the need to send an SOS to KI. When Celestia came out. It was widely thought that the difficulty was a giant leap too back then. But no global tweaking of pet manifesting likable talents happened and yet there are multitudes of perfect pets out right now.

As part of the solution. I agree with toller99, in addition there are several unsung hero spells that i found very useful in AZ. Old spells like Empowerment, Cleanse, Feint, Shields and efficient use of prisms comes to mind.
after reading this what you want finally clicked in my head. you dont want casual gamers to quit like i thought, no you want casual gamers to step up there game to the hard core level. while this is possible it would mean you hard core guys asking 30 millions players to either get hard core or quit. theres really no other way to explain it unless you exggerate it. so i await your response.

Survivor
Jan 18, 2012
32
This has been a great discussion on the casual gamer versus the hardcore gamer. I hope people reading this thread are learning something. I wanted to talk a minute about crafted gear. If you don't craft, then just skip this paragraph. For my death mage I crafted the hat and robe from Avalon. I then crafted 3 pairs of shoes. Each pair raises resist to a particular school, while still giving death damage. Very useful. I have crafted gear in Azteca too. So, I can say that there is a difference in the gear, but not much. The Azteca robe does give an increase in universal resist (maybe 1%, lol), and the crit goes up also, but the shoes I use - that resistance goes up by more than 1%. I know it isn't the greatest, but if you have the means, then go ahead and do it.

I'd like someone to define the casual gamer for me. What sort of gaming experience are you looking for at this point? It is obvious that each world raised the difficulty level and that we would have to expect it to get harder each time. The same strategies early on, just don't work any longer. Flexibility is key. You need to try and stay one step ahead of the mobs.

Here is one tip you can use right now, whether you craft, use crowns, or whatever. If you have gold you can do this: go to the Bazaar and purchase 2 high level hats. One hat will raise resistance to myth/life/death by 20% and the other will raise resistance to ice/fire/storm by 20%. I can't recall their names off-hand, but they are level 82 I think or so. That is one simple step you can take to raise your resistance. Don't worry about the trade-off with power. The goal is to stay alive long enough to build up a decent attack.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
Quinn Shadowrider on Dec 2, 2012 wrote:
This has been a great discussion on the casual gamer versus the hardcore gamer. I hope people reading this thread are learning something. I wanted to talk a minute about crafted gear. If you don't craft, then just skip this paragraph. For my death mage I crafted the hat and robe from Avalon. I then crafted 3 pairs of shoes. Each pair raises resist to a particular school, while still giving death damage. Very useful. I have crafted gear in Azteca too. So, I can say that there is a difference in the gear, but not much. The Azteca robe does give an increase in universal resist (maybe 1%, lol), and the crit goes up also, but the shoes I use - that resistance goes up by more than 1%. I know it isn't the greatest, but if you have the means, then go ahead and do it.

I'd like someone to define the casual gamer for me. What sort of gaming experience are you looking for at this point? It is obvious that each world raised the difficulty level and that we would have to expect it to get harder each time. The same strategies early on, just don't work any longer. Flexibility is key. You need to try and stay one step ahead of the mobs.

Here is one tip you can use right now, whether you craft, use crowns, or whatever. If you have gold you can do this: go to the Bazaar and purchase 2 high level hats. One hat will raise resistance to myth/life/death by 20% and the other will raise resistance to ice/fire/storm by 20%. I can't recall their names off-hand, but they are level 82 I think or so. That is one simple step you can take to raise your resistance. Don't worry about the trade-off with power. The goal is to stay alive long enough to build up a decent attack.
Most Casual game players - such as myself - like a game that is stress free and does not require you to do the math for ever move your wizard makes, whether it be for casting spells, constant deck maintenance or out fitting your wizard. The Malistaire Arc is my game style, that is as head banging I want to get in a game. Keep in mind the only other online game I bothered with was Disney Toontown. Off line I play Spider Solitaire - untimed.

In my travels I have found - some players do not even know what crafting is let alone do it, the concept is beyond their ability. Most like to out fit their wizard in something that looks good - here nor that what the stats are. Most wizards do not know how to put cards in their deck let alone organize it constantly for battles and have no idea what a sideboard is.

Most casual players don't have the mentality needed to become a hard core player even if they went to college and are successful professionals in real life, none of this helps them learn how to become a hard core game player. As they level up they start to flounder and it just becomes worse till they give up. Hardly any of them played a Hard Core game before and did not come to KI to do that either. How hard it is to understand not everyone can do what everyone else can?

Example: I can not preform brain surgery - I can research it as much as I like but still I can not. In the end - just because everyone else can complete Azteca with out any problems and it was easy peasy lemon squeezey and they loved the challenge, that doesn't mean everyone else can or like that challenge at all. Casual Gamers can not, it's meant for people who like that sort of game play and can actually do it.

I have tried to cross the bridge from Casual to Hard Core and I burnt it at the end of Avalon. It is not what I like or will pay for from a game. I don't need the challenge of every move made, swapping gear constantly, crafting up so I can craft more gear, having the perfect deck set up and pet. I am a bookkeeper irl, I did the math it all comes out in the red for me

Casual game players can not become Hard Core players just because the game they started playing has decided to go in that direction. I don't know how to explain it any more clear.

Survivor
Nov 25, 2011
1
My only gripe with the game is the manner in which a critical hit is made. If your battling more than one enemy and cast a critical spell either they all block it or they all miss the block. Why not have a mix - some block, some don't, or a mix of this. This would bring more realistic elements to the game.

Survivor
Jan 18, 2012
32
Northlite on Dec 3, 2012 wrote:
Most Casual game players - such as myself - like a game that is stress free and does not require you to do the math for ever move your wizard makes, whether it be for casting spells, constant deck maintenance or out fitting your wizard. The Malistaire Arc is my game style, that is as head banging I want to get in a game. Keep in mind the only other online game I bothered with was Disney Toontown. Off line I play Spider Solitaire - untimed.

In my travels I have found - some players do not even know what crafting is let alone do it, the concept is beyond their ability. Most like to out fit their wizard in something that looks good - here nor that what the stats are. Most wizards do not know how to put cards in their deck let alone organize it constantly for battles and have no idea what a sideboard is.

Most casual players don't have the mentality needed to become a hard core player even if they went to college and are successful professionals in real life, none of this helps them learn how to become a hard core game player. As they level up they start to flounder and it just becomes worse till they give up. Hardly any of them played a Hard Core game before and did not come to KI to do that either. How hard it is to understand not everyone can do what everyone else can?

Example: I can not preform brain surgery - I can research it as much as I like but still I can not. In the end - just because everyone else can complete Azteca with out any problems and it was easy peasy lemon squeezey and they loved the challenge, that doesn't mean everyone else can or like that challenge at all. Casual Gamers can not, it's meant for people who like that sort of game play and can actually do it.

I have tried to cross the bridge from Casual to Hard Core and I burnt it at the end of Avalon. It is not what I like or will pay for from a game. I don't need the challenge of every move made, swapping gear constantly, crafting up so I can craft more gear, having the perfect deck set up and pet. I am a bookkeeper irl, I did the math it all comes out in the red for me

Casual game players can not become Hard Core players just because the game they started playing has decided to go in that direction. I don't know how to explain it any more clear.
I do not agree that casual players can't evolve. It is their choice not to do so, and I respect that. I also think that KI should have more worlds like Wysteria - something not as stressful that can add to the overall casual gaming experience. Just because I finished Azteca, doesn't mean I liked it. I did it to do it. Period.

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
Thanks Eric (FatesKin) you have some wonderful ideas that would help. As DarthJT has on other threads.
You both have empathy and understanding that there are many different play styles. You both are trying to make it so people can play how they are comfortable playing. You understand people are not lazy, whiny, juvenile, quitters or so many other names people threw out on these boards at folks with a different view. You both also firmly grasp this game is for EVERYONE. Azteca as it is now does not allow EVERYONE to play it.

I have the skills needed to go to Azteca. I don't have the desire. Real life is stressful and I don't want my "down" time being stressful. I play to have fun. I don't play to work. After all, this is a game not real life or a job.

Hope to see you soon in game.

Geographer
Feb 19, 2010
939
gweedoboy on Nov 28, 2012 wrote:
nullsar it just seems like you want all casual gamers to quit. have you forgoten this is a family game?
that being said, here is my idea. make easy and normal difficulty servers. that way the casual players could play on the easy servers if the world ends up to hard for them.

oh, and one more thing. sar, the gear thats droped sucks if you have ww gear or crafted gear(avalon crafted gear is better than azteca crafted gear). if you have found some mirical gear that gives universal resist and good block and critical and damage boost then i would be happy to go and get me some of that gear
I know most dont agree but this is a really great idea. I played EQOA from launch to the last sunset of the game and i want to enlighten some on a reality.
EQOA had similar forums as these, Hardcore gamers complained that the game wasnt hard enough and SoE kept upping the dificulty which led to more an more casual players quitting. I was one of the more casual gamers on EQOA and i tried to warn them what was going on, But to no avail the game slowly trickled down more an more casual gamers moved on to games they were able to achieve advancement in until the day came when SoE seen that their subs were to low to keep going and the game signed off.
This actually does happen. And the only way you can ever make both sides happy (hardcore/casual) is by having either difficulty zones or to have every quest give a choice of a group instance or a solo instance.
I really like playing this game and would never want to see it go but KI really needs to look into what other games have done wrong so they dont make the same mistakes.
No matter what KI does in the future the only way to stay making money is to keep both sides happy.

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
Northlite on Dec 3, 2012 wrote:
Most Casual game players - such as myself - like a game that is stress free and does not require you to do the math for ever move your wizard makes, whether it be for casting spells, constant deck maintenance or out fitting your wizard. The Malistaire Arc is my game style, that is as head banging I want to get in a game. Keep in mind the only other online game I bothered with was Disney Toontown. Off line I play Spider Solitaire - untimed.

In my travels I have found - some players do not even know what crafting is let alone do it, the concept is beyond their ability. Most like to out fit their wizard in something that looks good - here nor that what the stats are. Most wizards do not know how to put cards in their deck let alone organize it constantly for battles and have no idea what a sideboard is.

Most casual players don't have the mentality needed to become a hard core player even if they went to college and are successful professionals in real life, none of this helps them learn how to become a hard core game player. As they level up they start to flounder and it just becomes worse till they give up. Hardly any of them played a Hard Core game before and did not come to KI to do that either. How hard it is to understand not everyone can do what everyone else can?

Example: I can not preform brain surgery - I can research it as much as I like but still I can not. In the end - just because everyone else can complete Azteca with out any problems and it was easy peasy lemon squeezey and they loved the challenge, that doesn't mean everyone else can or like that challenge at all. Casual Gamers can not, it's meant for people who like that sort of game play and can actually do it.

I have tried to cross the bridge from Casual to Hard Core and I burnt it at the end of Avalon. It is not what I like or will pay for from a game. I don't need the challenge of every move made, swapping gear constantly, crafting up so I can craft more gear, having the perfect deck set up and pet. I am a bookkeeper irl, I did the math it all comes out in the red for me

Casual game players can not become Hard Core players just because the game they started playing has decided to go in that direction. I don't know how to explain it any more clear.
this is very well said and i cant really think of any way to explain it better. i think the worlds should be getting harder BUT at the same time our power levels should be growing accordingly but alas there not.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
In the end the only way I see for our family is to cancel our 3 subs, which are currently yearly. I have already stopped one from renewing since we don't use that account any more and will do that with the other 2 now.

I should be good and tired of the first arc by then and will start my search for something that is maybe really more my speed. I want to do this before the game I really liked turns into the game I really hated.

I will miss this game as it really is my first full attempt at an online game. Maybe I just didn't belong here in the first place

Mary StarGem just a casual gamer
Is hanging up her wand

Geographer
Feb 19, 2010
939
gweedoboy on Dec 5, 2012 wrote:
this is very well said and i cant really think of any way to explain it better. i think the worlds should be getting harder BUT at the same time our power levels should be growing accordingly but alas there not.
I can agree with the part on our power level is not growing as much as it should be. But the question still remains is the game to hard for most or to hard for just a little. That is the main question here, If it is to hard for most then KI will eventually feel the effects of a downsizing mmo but if it is just to hard for a small amount of players then the forums will just be flooded with the complaints of a few and they may have to move on.

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
lastdaysgunslinger on Dec 7, 2012 wrote:
I can agree with the part on our power level is not growing as much as it should be. But the question still remains is the game to hard for most or to hard for just a little. That is the main question here, If it is to hard for most then KI will eventually feel the effects of a downsizing mmo but if it is just to hard for a small amount of players then the forums will just be flooded with the complaints of a few and they may have to move on.
I think we have come to the root of the problem power, us vs NPCs. Play styles are a factor too. But, with us beefed up and good stuff readily available styles become much less of an issue.

Eric has suggested better gear that is readily available be added. That was the norm in the first arc. The only difference between my Level 45 robe and my Level 50 robe was a card and school resist. The most sought after (farmed) gear was slightly better then. Now the differences between farmed, crafted and Bazaar gear is immense.

DarthJT suggested the addition of 2 pip wands, Simplify and Elucidate (made no PvP). I remember them from CL's test realm. They would help immensely too.

Being underpowered makes things much harder. That is what has struck me.

Your last point is a good one. I have noticed long term players are the ones struggling. Newer players seem to like things as is. I am seeing a trend here. Megan

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2638
lastdaysgunslinger on Dec 7, 2012 wrote:
I can agree with the part on our power level is not growing as much as it should be. But the question still remains is the game to hard for most or to hard for just a little. That is the main question here, If it is to hard for most then KI will eventually feel the effects of a downsizing mmo but if it is just to hard for a small amount of players then the forums will just be flooded with the complaints of a few and they may have to move on.
This is exactly what I want to know also - am I a minority or a majority? Am I the only one saddened by my game going hard core?

I can only say from my experience, of course but I constantly make myself available to help others in the game. I enjoy the game and I want everyone else to too. I always have and probably always will. I linger at dungeon entrances in case some one comes along etc. If someone asks a question I never belittle so they aren't embarrassed to ask me anything.

I have been asked the simplest questions to a few complex ones. Example: Someone in the Commons asked me yesterday "How do I get wood". I replied mist wood, they said "yes". I explained where it can be found, they wanted me to take them so I did to Unicorn way. I don't think they knew it was along the ground. Then they wanted to know how to craft now that they got the mist wood for the table. I explained that also in simple but in order instructions about first buying the recipe and then finding the items needed to craft it on the table she would place in her dorm room or castle. She was so happy and thanked me very much for helping.

In my travels of the Spiral I have met more players that just get by then ones who have nailed the game. By helping them I am probably not helping them "learn" the game because I play very aggressively but I just can't resist helping.

Mary

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
Megan Frostriver on Dec 7, 2012 wrote:
I think we have come to the root of the problem power, us vs NPCs. Play styles are a factor too. But, with us beefed up and good stuff readily available styles become much less of an issue.

Eric has suggested better gear that is readily available be added. That was the norm in the first arc. The only difference between my Level 45 robe and my Level 50 robe was a card and school resist. The most sought after (farmed) gear was slightly better then. Now the differences between farmed, crafted and Bazaar gear is immense.

DarthJT suggested the addition of 2 pip wands, Simplify and Elucidate (made no PvP). I remember them from CL's test realm. They would help immensely too.

Being underpowered makes things much harder. That is what has struck me.

Your last point is a good one. I have noticed long term players are the ones struggling. Newer players seem to like things as is. I am seeing a trend here. Megan
finally someone listens to me! ive been saying the source of our problem is the fail gear and our lack of power but no one listend untill now. so i thank you for that. on to the subject now, simply putting a 2 pip wand into the game would help so much but alas the guys at pvp would rage just as much if not more as they did about guardian spirit. i say make a new super dungeon that gives gear thats ACTUALLY better than ww gear or just put some better gear in the crown shop(i would buy it in a heart beat). i agree with the last part of your post also. all these new players are coming into the game pretty much expecting it to be all hard core after the first few worlds.

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