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are fizzles fair?

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Jan 18, 2009
70
First and foremost, I don't see any problem with my death wizard's fizzle rates, or either of my other high-level wizards. I do, however, seem to think it weird how the accuracy of spells seems to be down by a good portion in Wizard City, but that's most likely psychological. Fizzle rates are fine.

Secondly, fizzle rates have an interesting way of balancing. Let's take the life first-rank spell, imp. It's lower bound in damage is 65 (correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played in a while). With a 90% chance of hitting, its "expected damage" (damage that also factors in accuracy) is 90%*65, or about 59. So, on average, imp deals 59 damage per cast minimum; and expectedly, over 100 casts, chanes are it dealt 5900 minimum.

The spell storm snake, with a lower bound of 105 and an accuracy of 70%, has an expected damage of 73.5. So there you can see that the two school's expected damage aren't too far apart; storm however, of course, being a bit more powerful.

The third point is that some schools deal better with fizzles than others, and some wizards know how to handle fizzles better than others. For instance,

The storm school is a large gamble. It has powerful spells used to dispose of the enemy before it disposes of you, but it's hard to count on and oftentimes you'll be in tough situations. The ice school, on the other hand, full of defense can stand being stalled by a turn, taking an extra hit, and so on, without much consequence.

And take a look at this;

I know, personally, that it's *very* hard for people to gain a powerful understanding of the way combat works. Time and time again I've been in combats with others that would do some of the following:

1) I've had someone say to me "dude, just fight" when I had put a death blade on myself and a death trap on my opponent. This person next to me was casting a series of single-pip spells. A series of single-pip spells has a much lower chance of being successful than a higher-rank spell with good charms and wards.

2) I've never seen any of my friends make good use of charms and wards. The more you use, the less spells you have to cast, the less you'll fizzle! A storm partner by me in one of my battles was casting up a couple of tritons and stormzillas and so on. Not only did he fizzle a good deal but in the end only managed to deal around 3000 or so damage; I disposed of the opponent I was attacking with one single hit, 5000+ or something, and it was death, too, accuracy 85%.



So, the bottom line is:

Fizzles are worst either when you don't know what you're doing or when you're storm. And that's that.

Survivor
May 30, 2009
47
Survivor
Mar 08, 2009
24
I think fizzles was a good idea because if there were no fizzles, it would be a fast battle. Except if the enemy you're facing won't fizzle and could beat you.

Survivor
Aug 18, 2009
3
Fizzles I think arent excactly "fair" but It is to stop the people for example who are storm school dont have all the advantages. But also, it would be very unfair for JUST storm to fizzle, so there are percentages. I think that some are fair but the card Wild Bolt is WAY too low of a fizzle rate, maybe 20% might be better? but 10% is just sad

Survivor
Jul 29, 2009
16
Anathema wrote:
I have been silent for about three weeks hoping that the powers that be might correct this behind the scenes before it became painfully apparent to EVERYONE that there is a major flaw in the calculation of fizzle rates.

I don't know what most of you know of percentages, but the fizzle rate is OBVIOUSLY calculating incorrectly. I have been tracking my fizzle rate, and time and time again it is far beyond the failure rate listed on the card.

Now, before anyone asks, with my most recent character (with a balance primary circle) there is an eighty five percent chance of 'success' for the cast of each spell in question. I have no items equipped that lower this percentage, and yet, in Mooshu those supposedly '85%' chance of success spells fail nearly every other cast. More often they fail 2 out of every 3 casts.

This is not just 'sometimes'. These are consecutive battles time and time again. Judgement, and Spectral Blast which both have an 85% chance of success, fail EVERY other cast. This is NOT 85% This would be 50% at best!

I would GLADLY entertain any GM's wishes to come and view this as the simple truth. The fizzle rates have been hosed since an update from about three weeks ago.

This is not simply 'bad luck'. I have three character on which I play and this abnormal fizzle rate remains true on each one though in some instances to a slightly lesser degree. Still though, they remain FAR from the listed percentages on the cards/spells in question.

This is not your imagination. The fizzle rate is incorrect and incredibly flawed. Either the system needs to be corrected, or the percentage of success rates need to be adjusted on the cards.

Don't take my word for it, do the math and experiment on your own.

If you have a spell that has a 70% chance of success, it should fail approximately every third cast. That is (2 successfull casts for every 3!) What you will most likely find is that it fails 2 out of 3 casts, which is a 30% chance of success. This is FAR from the 70% chance of success listed on the card.

For spells with an 85% chance of success, it should fail approximately every 5th cast. This is of course not to say that it won't fail the first time and then be successful the next four. In my experience however it fails AT LEAST every other cast.

I don't mind a fizzle rate, what I do mind is being essentially lied to. If the failure rate on a spell is 50% then put it on the card as such. Don't misconstrue the truth with the catch all phrase 'well you must just be having bad luck'.

There will also be those that may say that 'well over time it evens out'. I'm sorry to contradict you, but I have tracked a hundred casts of each instance (on several occasions), and it STILL works out to a 50% chance of success.

Bad luck is one thing, a statistic impossibility (which is the case here) is absolutely ridiculous.

With all of the many wonderful things that have been coming through, I can't comprehend why they would allow such a detriment to game play to continue. I have spoken with DOZENS of people and everyone agrees something 'just isn't right'.

Some of us 'old folks' (me being 37) know the difference between right and wrong, and how to calculate the odds. The younger generation is a lot brighter than it used to be and I am sure are just as well equipped to run the numbers and see the truth in this matter.

This needs FIXED!

You forgot about wild bolt. Whats weird about it is that it should fizzle more. I didn't actually do it but some guy at the arena used wild bolt 4 times(I was battling him). It fizzled 2 times. So its like it has a 50% of fizzling. SO... that means it should be fizzling more.

Survivor
Jan 12, 2010
36
sparklypigs12 wrote:
YES! I'm someone who likes to stick to the things happening nowaday so in real life if you hit someone it may miss. I'm really happy :Dif something fizzles! (even if it's my spell)



i don't know. but 1 time i was playing w/ 4 the first person fizzled and every1 fizzled!!!!!!!!!!!! :-(

Defender
Jun 04, 2009
154
Some fizzle, some do not. CoF= Chance of fizzleing

Balance:5-20 CoF
Storm: 10-80 Cof
Ice: 5-40 CoF
Fire: 10-50 CoF
Death: 5-25 CoF
Myth: 5-30 CoF
Life: 0-10 1/2 CoF

These are based on my seeing of the schools. All have a 0 CoF, for the wand spells (Life Ire, etc)

Storm is most common, life is not.

If everyone blew all their candles out on their 1st try, always, it would get boring. Just like if spells never fizzled.

Hannah Dragonsword, l. 39 fire

Survivor
Aug 19, 2008
22
Something fun to think about:

Since every card's fizzle success/failure roll is separate, it's extremely unlikely, but possible for someone to fizzle every non-100% card they cast!

Can you imagine a poor unlucky soul who fizzed every time?

Explorer
Jun 11, 2009
55
I say sometimes it is on purpose! I was just about to beat three guys with no help in pvp comes down to this card i fiz he didn't and barly killed me it's so unfair why cause it is so annying.



lvl 50 pyro

RyanBattleBreaker


badge master of fire

Survivor
Mar 13, 2010
23
Fair!!! Without fizzles people would lose very quick. I am life so i dont fizzle much :)

Survivor
Jun 13, 2010
17
browneyes1498 wrote:
hi i just wanted your opinion on if fizzles are good or bad during a duel. i noticed that in my battles, my cards fizzle and it bothers me. but its also good because tha enemy also gets their cards fizzled. :D so thats my opinion! right back plz!

One thing first... It is fair in more then one way... If you got like a lot of pips and you are using a awesome spell and you can use it again because you have two, and you'll never fizzle is soooooo unfair. So... if you fizzle it is a lot more fair, and if you're in a battle the bad guy will fizzle and if he doesn't ever fizzle it'll be really be super unfair so, it is fair and I like NEVER FIZZLE!!!
are you shocked?

Survivor
Jul 26, 2010
8
I dont realy know because when my card fizzles it`s scareapeeds. (my best card)
but I also gain a pip\power pip

Survivor
Jul 16, 2010
8
Sometimes fizzles are good but they can also be bad. Something good about fizzles is that when you are about to die and your enemy fizzles and you get to cast your spell and kill the enemy. But when you fizzle it could kill you(I have died because of fizzling).

Talon Nightcaster level 51 myth wizard

Defender
Oct 09, 2010
160
Is fizzling fair?
Well, is it fair to take out the excitment in a battle!?

My point is, if you make all cards 100%, W101 will be too easy. And we wouldn't want that.

Survivor
Dec 05, 2010
2
i love having the fizzles lol! its qood especially wen its on the bad guys (:

Survivor
Mar 05, 2010
3
:-) KI made fizzles to the game to prevent an instant win or lose and ki has also made acury chance witch will increce your chance of geting to spell to work
so a fizzle is actauly very fair :D

PS william thunder blade level 55 Fire (GO FIRE!)

PSS sorry for all the mistakes

Survivor
Dec 03, 2010
7
I don't think fizzles are fair because I was about to kill a boss but then it fizzled and then the boss defeated me

Defender
Dec 04, 2010
121
Are fizzles fair?

Yes, they are fair. Look at Storm spell cards. Examine it. See how much damage they do? Thunder Snake outranks all other 1 pip spells from other schools, damage-wise. But look at the accuracy, about 70%. Now examine Life spell cards. Note their accuracy. 90%. But look at their damage. Imp barely defeats a Lost Soul in Unicorn Way! Would this be considered fair? I think yes.

Fizzle rates:

Fizzles rates are different for each school. Take Balance's Judgement. Yes, 85% chance of hitting. 100 damage per pip. If you try it 100 times, and it fizzles more than 15 times, don't think it is off. Remember low fizzling rates can still make the spell fizzle. I even tried Seraph in PvP, and it fizzled once.

Solutions:

Take a look at Storm. Low accuracy, as said before. Now because there is high damage already, Storm looks for outfits giving higher accuracy. However, no outfit would make 100% accuracy. That is still fair.

Explorer
Jan 04, 2011
73
Quizzical wrote:
Is it "fair" that a bishop can only move diagonally? Is it "fair" that a safety gets your team two points and the ball? The question doesn't entirely make sense to ask. The nearest to a coherent answer that the question can yield is to say, yes, fizzle rules apply equally to all sides, and are therefore fair.


Thank god ! For a long time I thought I was the only adult at these forums...

"Fair" and "Unfair" are the two most commonly used (read: overused) words here at these forums. Is this a children thing? To ask whether or not something is "fair" or complain if something is perceived as "unfair"?

I have never heard these two words used oh-so-frequently in any other game/technical/social forums EVER.

Btw, why does your name start with Q... Is it "fair"? I think it's "unfair". Discuss.

Defender
Dec 08, 2010
101
Survivor
Jul 09, 2010
13
browneyes1498 wrote:
hi i just wanted your opinion on if fizzles are good or bad during a duel. i noticed that in my battles, my cards fizzle and it bothers me. but its also good because tha enemy also gets their cards fizzled. :D so thats my opinion! right back plz!


Ok, even though fizzling hurts you, its helpful. Lets say you are in pvp and you have like 100 health. Your opponent attacks, but fizzles. It saves yer life. Then you end up attacking and your spell fizzles. Now that gets me mad But, storm has accuracy of 70%. Lets say we were in school (don't say 'DON'T TALK ABOUT SCHOOL!' because this is a perfect point, and yes, I hate school too. It gets on my nerves :/ ) A 70% Is a C-. It's a passing grade. That's why they don't have the accuracy down to like 20%. It would fizzle almost everytime. And if it was always 100% accuracy, it would always work. But you wouldn't get the boost in pvp, or in just a battle. It would fizzle only if you had a smoke screen or one of those on, and there's like a one out of 1000 chance that happens. I also like fizzles because without it, battles are boring and predictable. It's fun when you see it get on people's nerves, and of course, the time where it gets on YOUR nerves Well, plz reply back, and Kingsisle do me a favor... Don't cancel fizzling like that moron wants. It makes the game more intense and exciting to me :|

Survivor
Oct 23, 2010
14
WarlockWiz wrote:
I think as a wizard goes up in levels his chances for fizzles should decrease. However, KI answer to this is to buy/find gear that decreases your chances of fizzling. But as a pryo Grandmaster it still bothers me whenever I fizzle. In my opinioin, as a Grandmaster my succesful casting percent for my fire spells should be around 98%.

Dustin Dragonflame

If the chance of fizzling decreasing when you get to higher levels the game will be unfair but that's just my opinion