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PvP Ideas to Bring Old Players Back

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jan 25, 2009
1
I've played this game since 2009 and have had multiple characters with 2000+ rank. I try to pvp now and some may say I need to adapt but the old pvp was much better and is a large contributor to the death of it. Dispel shields make it harder to play slower. Critical block changed made long ago make it hard to play defensive. The reshuffle/cloak/enchant change made it harder too. These changes helped turn pvp into what feels like quick match at level 60 and below because the only thing that matters is how fast you can hit which has led to the rise of storm and fire. I believe they should reverse these changes, and also make pvp free to everyone to try to boost the numbers and make team pvp a thing again. Rampage is simply too strong at lower levels but with having dispel shields taken out it would also make it easier to counter as now the only way is being first with triage or guessing from second. I know my ideas may not suit everyone as I represent a very small part of the player base but I loved team pvp and it was very fun. One last thing is that there needs to be something to take care of the boosters whatever the system may be. I know the old players won't come back for numerous reasons but I would like to see some sort of effort to make it happen.

Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
Whoever works at KI should read this advice if they want to bring old players back (to a more balanced game). It shouldn't take 3 years to solve the problem of Bad Juju.

1. Disallow Guardian Spirit from PVP.

2. Disallow Sanctuary from PVP; these two spells are only abused by Angel Jades with max healing boost. Nobody likes four hour games. No, you will not be able to carry more Dooms and Infections than they can carry Sanctuaries, heals, and Reshuffles.
3. Disallow Burning Rampage from PVP, it's not counterable from second unless you correctly Triage the turn it is cast.
4. Disallow Fire Beetle TC from PVP.
5. Add a normal PVP turn / time limit, not just in tournaments. If the game lasts for longer than a certain amount of time (let's say 1 hour), it is a draw, with both players gaining 0 rank. Or do it like Diego does in tournaments, with the player dealing more damage winning.
5. Give Balance and Storm a trained school DoT spell.
6. Max level Balance as a school will have no future in fourth-arc PVP without the ability to either bladestack or counter bladestacks. Stacking weaknesses doesn't work when an off-school wand hit removes everything. Make Enfeeble readily available in the Bazaar and / or make a Balance Enfeeble type spell a la Mana Burn.
7. I wouldn't mind removing all Mirage spells from PVP as they are too RNG based.
8. Add more Deck space in the Main Deck. How long have we been at 64 cards?
9. And stop giving Ice more OP gear, they don't need it.

Explorer
Feb 19, 2010
91
YES, KI read this. Where is Sparck when you need him?

What I would like to see,
If a players is over Warlord, that is over 1000 rank, DO NOT match him with those of us that are trying to rank.
Match them with other Warlords over 1000 rank. It is not fair to have a level 101 warlord rank 1200 VS a level 130
private, the odds of the private winning are slim,
These Warlords over 1000 have nothing to lose in rank pvp. what they are doing is discouraging us from doing pvp.
So if the Warlords want to get their rank numbers up, let them do so against other warlords. That to me would be a true fair match.
and for your information I have 5 Warlords at this time, all level 130 and I do not pvp rank at this time, Because I
want to give others a chance to PVP and rank up.

Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
WolfIsABeast on Dec 9, 2018 wrote:
I've played this game since 2009 and have had multiple characters with 2000+ rank. I try to pvp now and some may say I need to adapt but the old pvp was much better and is a large contributor to the death of it. Dispel shields make it harder to play slower. Critical block changed made long ago make it hard to play defensive. The reshuffle/cloak/enchant change made it harder too. These changes helped turn pvp into what feels like quick match at level 60 and below because the only thing that matters is how fast you can hit which has led to the rise of storm and fire. I believe they should reverse these changes, and also make pvp free to everyone to try to boost the numbers and make team pvp a thing again. Rampage is simply too strong at lower levels but with having dispel shields taken out it would also make it easier to counter as now the only way is being first with triage or guessing from second. I know my ideas may not suit everyone as I represent a very small part of the player base but I loved team pvp and it was very fun. One last thing is that there needs to be something to take care of the boosters whatever the system may be. I know the old players won't come back for numerous reasons but I would like to see some sort of effort to make it happen.
I actually quite like the Dispel Shield change. I think you need to adapt bro.

People can't just spam them now, brainlessly, hoping to get lucky, and facing an enemy of the same school as you is much fairer as you don't constantly have to worry about being dispelled from second (or first if you Shrike).

I do miss Critical Block, and I have no opinion either way on Reshuffle. And Rampage is definitely too strong and always was.

Defender
Mar 10, 2014
183
Exabytes on Dec 11, 2018 wrote:
Whoever works at KI should read this advice if they want to bring old players back (to a more balanced game). It shouldn't take 3 years to solve the problem of Bad Juju.

1. Disallow Guardian Spirit from PVP.

2. Disallow Sanctuary from PVP; these two spells are only abused by Angel Jades with max healing boost. Nobody likes four hour games. No, you will not be able to carry more Dooms and Infections than they can carry Sanctuaries, heals, and Reshuffles.
3. Disallow Burning Rampage from PVP, it's not counterable from second unless you correctly Triage the turn it is cast.
4. Disallow Fire Beetle TC from PVP.
5. Add a normal PVP turn / time limit, not just in tournaments. If the game lasts for longer than a certain amount of time (let's say 1 hour), it is a draw, with both players gaining 0 rank. Or do it like Diego does in tournaments, with the player dealing more damage winning.
5. Give Balance and Storm a trained school DoT spell.
6. Max level Balance as a school will have no future in fourth-arc PVP without the ability to either bladestack or counter bladestacks. Stacking weaknesses doesn't work when an off-school wand hit removes everything. Make Enfeeble readily available in the Bazaar and / or make a Balance Enfeeble type spell a la Mana Burn.
7. I wouldn't mind removing all Mirage spells from PVP as they are too RNG based.
8. Add more Deck space in the Main Deck. How long have we been at 64 cards?
9. And stop giving Ice more OP gear, they don't need it.
My opinion on this list is:

If balance gets stackable blades it will have everything in the game. I have a balance, I feel your pain with the fact that schools can out tank balance and blade up and win easy, but if balance gets good blades we need a balance shield.

A balance enfeeble would just make balance overpowered, the weakness of balance is tanking them and blading up for a bit hit, I dont think a balance enfeeble would be a good idea for game balance.

Sanctuary should stay in pvp, it helps strategies come about and makes things interesting. Everyone just spamming attacks would make pvp repetitive and boring.

A timer should not be put on ranked pvp, because some matches take time to out play your opponent if your second. Diego's choices in tournaments are already not fair and not accurate, adding this to ranked would cause people frustration.

I disagree that balance and storm need a dot. Balance can just use an off school dot to break shields because there arent balance set shields. Storm has too high of damage output for a dot to be fair, if storm gets a dot it needs to be a high pip one, as storm can oneshot someone easily with the scion spell if they dont have a blade on.

I agree that Fire beetle is over powered and Im not sure why it gives 3 traps that can stack with other fire beetle traps and break shields for only two pips, it should have the pip cost raised to atleast 3

Mirage spells are extremely hard to counter from second, they are to unpredictable, 5 pips and a shadow pip is the lowest shadow enchanted spells should have gone. Mirage spells kill any type of conservitive game play.

Ices gear isnt anymore op then another schools, all the schools have their perks when it comes to gear, example the ice crafted wand is worse in every way then the fire crafted wand, but that doesnt mean fire has op gear.

Guardian spirit is annoying, but taking it completely out is a little unfair, maybe limit the times it can be used.

Astrologist
Feb 12, 2015
1165
My thoughts on fixing this mess:

Have the option (note that I say option) to remove luck-based factors. No Shadow Pips, No Criticals, no Spell Enchantments, and No Maycasts. You would only be paired with people who have the exact same restrictions. Also limit Guardian Spirit to one use per duel, prevent Transformations from showing in duels, and ban "overpowered" gear such as ones from bundles and packs. It shouldn't be that hard to implement, and this alone would restore PvP to the state it was back in 2010.

Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
Fred Frost on Dec 13, 2018 wrote:
My opinion on this list is:

If balance gets stackable blades it will have everything in the game. I have a balance, I feel your pain with the fact that schools can out tank balance and blade up and win easy, but if balance gets good blades we need a balance shield.

A balance enfeeble would just make balance overpowered, the weakness of balance is tanking them and blading up for a bit hit, I dont think a balance enfeeble would be a good idea for game balance.

Sanctuary should stay in pvp, it helps strategies come about and makes things interesting. Everyone just spamming attacks would make pvp repetitive and boring.

A timer should not be put on ranked pvp, because some matches take time to out play your opponent if your second. Diego's choices in tournaments are already not fair and not accurate, adding this to ranked would cause people frustration.

I disagree that balance and storm need a dot. Balance can just use an off school dot to break shields because there arent balance set shields. Storm has too high of damage output for a dot to be fair, if storm gets a dot it needs to be a high pip one, as storm can oneshot someone easily with the scion spell if they dont have a blade on.

I agree that Fire beetle is over powered and Im not sure why it gives 3 traps that can stack with other fire beetle traps and break shields for only two pips, it should have the pip cost raised to atleast 3

Mirage spells are extremely hard to counter from second, they are to unpredictable, 5 pips and a shadow pip is the lowest shadow enchanted spells should have gone. Mirage spells kill any type of conservitive game play.

Ices gear isnt anymore op then another schools, all the schools have their perks when it comes to gear, example the ice crafted wand is worse in every way then the fire crafted wand, but that doesnt mean fire has op gear.

Guardian spirit is annoying, but taking it completely out is a little unfair, maybe limit the times it can be used.
1. I am totally fine with having a Balance shield (a la Sabrina Greenstar) if it means we can bladestack properly. But if we introduce a proper shield, that means we will also need a proper DoT. As part of the whole idea of being is being unable to be set shielded against. With the amount of set resist to that already exists at higher levels, all people would need to do is pack max shields and if we don't have a School DoT, we'd be right back to where we started as you can't Shrike though 80% shields on top of 75% set resist.

Going down that path ( blade & shield) is very tricky. I think that simply being able to remove bladestacks (partially, like Mana Burn) is far more in tune with the idea of Balance because otherwise you're fundamentally changing the school.

It would be a DoT specifically for max level, not lower. If can have Rampage and Weaver, I don't see the problem lol. It would cost 2, 3, or 4 Pips.

2. A timer absolutely should be put in PVP. If one hour is too low, absolutely at 2, 3, 4+ hours the game should stop by default. It's just wasting time, clearly neither of you can or wants to defeat the other. I am not really a fan of the Diego method, and prefer that both players gain 0 rank (I'd say 5, but then people would just draw on purpose and inflate their rank artificially. Let's say, the higher ranked player loses a small amount, like 5, with the lower ranked player gaining 5).

Also everyone should have the option to Draw before the max time elapses, like in Chess.

3. Sanctuary may be fine for low-mid level PVP, but at Exalted+ I've seen critical Satyrs heal for 5.5k . It's just completely broken, look at any max level using heal spam with Sanctuary spam and 80% incoming boost and Critical on top of Guardian Angel and shield stacking and then tell me that's fair.

4. Storm having a mid-high pip DoT, agreed. I'm thinking a DoT at 6 or 7 pips and one pip. A low pip DoT would break (although Elf exists).

Explorer
Feb 19, 2010
91
I would like to know who is in charge of the PVP on the message board. It seems like we talk among ourselves and NO ONE is listening. So does all these great ideas go to mute ears. It would be nice to get some acknowledgement from KI. A Thumbs up or down, at least we know someone in the PVP area is listening, Why do we not get answers from Diego?

Armiger
Aug 03, 2014
2101
Exabytes on Dec 13, 2018 wrote:
1. I am totally fine with having a Balance shield (a la Sabrina Greenstar) if it means we can bladestack properly. But if we introduce a proper shield, that means we will also need a proper DoT. As part of the whole idea of being is being unable to be set shielded against. With the amount of set resist to that already exists at higher levels, all people would need to do is pack max shields and if we don't have a School DoT, we'd be right back to where we started as you can't Shrike though 80% shields on top of 75% set resist.

Going down that path ( blade & shield) is very tricky. I think that simply being able to remove bladestacks (partially, like Mana Burn) is far more in tune with the idea of Balance because otherwise you're fundamentally changing the school.

It would be a DoT specifically for max level, not lower. If can have Rampage and Weaver, I don't see the problem lol. It would cost 2, 3, or 4 Pips.

2. A timer absolutely should be put in PVP. If one hour is too low, absolutely at 2, 3, 4+ hours the game should stop by default. It's just wasting time, clearly neither of you can or wants to defeat the other. I am not really a fan of the Diego method, and prefer that both players gain 0 rank (I'd say 5, but then people would just draw on purpose and inflate their rank artificially. Let's say, the higher ranked player loses a small amount, like 5, with the lower ranked player gaining 5).

Also everyone should have the option to Draw before the max time elapses, like in Chess.

3. Sanctuary may be fine for low-mid level PVP, but at Exalted+ I've seen critical Satyrs heal for 5.5k . It's just completely broken, look at any max level using heal spam with Sanctuary spam and 80% incoming boost and Critical on top of Guardian Angel and shield stacking and then tell me that's fair.

4. Storm having a mid-high pip DoT, agreed. I'm thinking a DoT at 6 or 7 pips and one pip. A low pip DoT would break (although Elf exists).
A timer absolutely should be put in PVP. If one hour is too low, absolutely at 2, 3, 4+ hours the game should stop by default. It's just wasting time, clearly neither of you can or wants to defeat the other. I am not really a fan of the Diego method, and prefer that both players gain 0 rank

This is something I completely agree with! This is a child-friendly game but I've seen PvP matches turn into 'who can stay online longest' instead of an actual battle. It's very off-putting for anyone interested in PvP, especially children who have no control over computer use or staying up all night just to hit pass.

As a parent we're supposed to ensure appropriate game use and check our children are doing their homework and getting enough sleep. To be honest, it puts me off even as an adult lol, we all have other things we'd like (or have) to do.

I'm not sure what an appropriate length of time would be, but if it is the equivalent to a difficult dungeon I don't think anyone could realistically criticise it. I know a time limit would allow more players to participate and it is likely to discourage those who would use this 'strategy' since they would not gain rank from doing it.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Sadly, this ship has sailed long ago. KI had the chance to "balance" pvp, and did nothing. They did make a few minor adjustments, but nothing like a complete overhaul that was needed. Most of the community left, and I seriously doubt they will return, based on trends I have seen with online games. While notable suggestions that are implemented might make a few return, the rest are seeking "greener pastures".