Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

For all account questions and concerns, contact Customer Support.

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Elemental + Spirit shields need pip cost

AuthorMessage
Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Due to Elemental + Spiritual shields coming in sets of three it should be a least 2 pips because they covers more than 2 schools. Its kinda unfair that balance have every school for free while costing 0 pips and then they can go train other shields + obtain pets that have triple shields for other schools. I have saw balance players ask for converts but there are yet to be any balance set shields?? Kinda questioning now why they have a damage bubble which if they are a support school why isn't the bubble universal or why they have the first duplication bubble that multiply with reshuffle? Not to mention they also have Steel giant treasure cards (4 pips) that hit all + damage over time. Balance also convert their own damage into other school when they attack + get all the buffs to make their attack hurt.....Well sorry for getting a little off subject but something need to be done.

Btw, I know many will say just use tower shields but towers aren't just for balance they are for every school.

Thank you

Champion
Mar 28, 2010
437
wakaflame201 on May 16, 2016 wrote:
Due to Elemental + Spiritual shields coming in sets of three it should be a least 2 pips because they covers more than 2 schools. Its kinda unfair that balance have every school for free while costing 0 pips and then they can go train other shields + obtain pets that have triple shields for other schools. I have saw balance players ask for converts but there are yet to be any balance set shields?? Kinda questioning now why they have a damage bubble which if they are a support school why isn't the bubble universal or why they have the first duplication bubble that multiply with reshuffle? Not to mention they also have Steel giant treasure cards (4 pips) that hit all + damage over time. Balance also convert their own damage into other school when they attack + get all the buffs to make their attack hurt.....Well sorry for getting a little off subject but something need to be done.

Btw, I know many will say just use tower shields but towers aren't just for balance they are for every school.

Thank you
Elemental and spiritual shields seem fine to me because both tower shields and set shields are 0 pips so elemental and spiritual shields should be too. As for the gaze bubble not being universal, if it was universal then gaze of fate would be total trash and balance would have to resort to Nested Fury *shiver*. THe balance blades have lower percentage than other blades also so it doesn't buff as much. Steel giant tc's are rare and not used very often because Balance doesn't need them. Why use a steel colossus when you can fire elf for the same pips or even dark Sprite?

Lvl 110
Lvl 103
Lvl 27

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Adam Wintersinger on May 16, 2016 wrote:
Elemental and spiritual shields seem fine to me because both tower shields and set shields are 0 pips so elemental and spiritual shields should be too. As for the gaze bubble not being universal, if it was universal then gaze of fate would be total trash and balance would have to resort to Nested Fury *shiver*. THe balance blades have lower percentage than other blades also so it doesn't buff as much. Steel giant tc's are rare and not used very often because Balance doesn't need them. Why use a steel colossus when you can fire elf for the same pips or even dark Sprite?

Lvl 110
Lvl 103
Lvl 27
I said that elemental and spiritual shields should cost pips because its 3 shields sets of shields and all together covers 6 schools. Set shields only 2 shields and they come in different combos. Balance gets every school for free and then can train other school shields which is not fair. Its not like we can train balance blades or the triple shields.Balance can use our blades and we can use theirs. Also about Gaze its too much of a full packed deal. Double hit, by pass resist, hard to shields against. duplicated bubble, can buff from other school bubbles them change to balance. First how can you present a bubble without a proper defensive?? Weakness works but not every school can keep up with balance because they can hit can stack weakness plus make you fizzle. Steel Colossus is not all that rare because its drop by severe boss in Polaris and can be sold to the bazaar. You brought another good fact. "Why steel colossus when you can fire elf" Best balance has no set shields and they only expect towers they can literally use anything to remove your defense and then get back into spell. Which if you are fire, death, life,myth,storm, and ice you have to use your own school to take off a shield unless it a tower. Also notice how towers are only 50% and shrike is 50% but balance can get up to about 50 pierce not including infallible.

Lvl 110
Lvl 90
Lvl 80
Lvl 60

All warlords

Champion
Mar 28, 2010
437
wakaflame201 on May 16, 2016 wrote:
I said that elemental and spiritual shields should cost pips because its 3 shields sets of shields and all together covers 6 schools. Set shields only 2 shields and they come in different combos. Balance gets every school for free and then can train other school shields which is not fair. Its not like we can train balance blades or the triple shields.Balance can use our blades and we can use theirs. Also about Gaze its too much of a full packed deal. Double hit, by pass resist, hard to shields against. duplicated bubble, can buff from other school bubbles them change to balance. First how can you present a bubble without a proper defensive?? Weakness works but not every school can keep up with balance because they can hit can stack weakness plus make you fizzle. Steel Colossus is not all that rare because its drop by severe boss in Polaris and can be sold to the bazaar. You brought another good fact. "Why steel colossus when you can fire elf" Best balance has no set shields and they only expect towers they can literally use anything to remove your defense and then get back into spell. Which if you are fire, death, life,myth,storm, and ice you have to use your own school to take off a shield unless it a tower. Also notice how towers are only 50% and shrike is 50% but balance can get up to about 50 pierce not including infallible.

Lvl 110
Lvl 90
Lvl 80
Lvl 60

All warlords
Other schools not having access to elemental/spiritual shields? Well there are these things called treasure cards

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Adam Wintersinger on May 18, 2016 wrote:
Other schools not having access to elemental/spiritual shields? Well there are these things called treasure cards
So do balance and they have the original card but i still think it should cost 1 or 2 pips since it covers more than 2 schools.

Historian
Nov 28, 2010
613
The difference is the school shields are 70% for a pair of schools. The elemental/spirit shields only offer 50% for each school.

I really don't see a problem with leaving them as 0 pip spells. You get one extra shield, but the shields offer less protection thus justifying the equivalent pip cost.

Even if there was a good reason to put a pip cost on those spells, I honestly don't know how you come up with 2. I just don't see any justification behind that number at all when I think of anything else that could be considered comparable. Elemental/Spiritual Blades/Traps only cost 1 pip, that's the closest thing I can think of. But I still don't believe there's any need to put a pip cost on those shields.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
So, using this logic should Balance have to spend more than one pip to cast their tri-blade set-ups? After all, they're getting three blades so should it be 2 or 3 pips instead?
I vote no for the same reason I would vote no on the shields. They're weak defenses and therefore shouldn't cost that much to cast.
It's funny how most complaints are about Balance's lack of ability to boost their hits and burn off wards without ruining their hit set-ups. Now all of a sudden balance has an advantage! The horror!!!

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
TucsonWizard on May 20, 2016 wrote:
So, using this logic should Balance have to spend more than one pip to cast their tri-blade set-ups? After all, they're getting three blades so should it be 2 or 3 pips instead?
I vote no for the same reason I would vote no on the shields. They're weak defenses and therefore shouldn't cost that much to cast.
It's funny how most complaints are about Balance's lack of ability to boost their hits and burn off wards without ruining their hit set-ups. Now all of a sudden balance has an advantage! The horror!!!
Yes it is an advantage and i feel like most will disagree because like 98% of the players exploit balance to get an easy warlord. The difference is that elemental blades and spirits and traps can be trained by other schools and they get 2 sets of 3 shields not just 1 set of 2. To be able to train everyone individual shields and then have their own individual no one can train is not fair. Balance has one of the best defenses in game besides ice btw. Balance school has an answer for everything in pvp. Also when have balance have any problem buffing when they have every blade at that their disposal and a bubble?? Another thing Death has it worst than balance when it comes to ruining hit set ups because they can barely use any other their own utility but other schools can use it faithly to take off converts when balance has a instantly use any school. I would love to see use you bad juju, empower, dark pact or sacrifice when you have blade on which at the same time needing over 100 damage with 40 pierce to deal some decent damage.

Survivor
May 09, 2016
15
True but the reduction from Balance shields is only 50% while the duo shields from other schools is 70% along with the 80% shield they get for their own school. When you figure that you're not really going to use all 3 shields, maybe 2 at most you realize you'd so much rather have the duo or even single shields.

Oh and a prism would be nice when you realize as balance you either need a mastery amulet or to spam spectrals/hydras which will be shielded against and reduced to half when they fight balance mobs and bosses.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1304
Balance already has too many pip-cost stuff anyway, we don't need to be adding the shields in there, either. Some things need to be 0 pip, otherwise, no one would be able to hit, because of pip costs for everything.

Balance already gets stepped on for many things. We don't need to add more headache to the school.

A+ Student
Mar 31, 2009
1558
Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
You guys are clearly bias because i am guessing you all have balance as a main school. So you all are telling its fair that balance has unique shield with 3 sets of shields in 1 card that no one else can train? Also then go train every others schools shields?? How is that fair?? Elemental shields should either be trainable for other schools or have 1 pip added.

Historian
Nov 28, 2010
613
wakaflame201 on May 20, 2016 wrote:
Yes it is an advantage and i feel like most will disagree because like 98% of the players exploit balance to get an easy warlord. The difference is that elemental blades and spirits and traps can be trained by other schools and they get 2 sets of 3 shields not just 1 set of 2. To be able to train everyone individual shields and then have their own individual no one can train is not fair. Balance has one of the best defenses in game besides ice btw. Balance school has an answer for everything in pvp. Also when have balance have any problem buffing when they have every blade at that their disposal and a bubble?? Another thing Death has it worst than balance when it comes to ruining hit set ups because they can barely use any other their own utility but other schools can use it faithly to take off converts when balance has a instantly use any school. I would love to see use you bad juju, empower, dark pact or sacrifice when you have blade on which at the same time needing over 100 damage with 40 pierce to deal some decent damage.
Most will disagree because a lot of people don't do PvP. So for PvE, what's the benefit? It's hard for KI to justify a change like this based solely on the, "Oh I can't beat X-School in PvP because they have this and I don't, so you have to do something to make it harder for them to beat me," reasoning.

Mastermind
Mar 13, 2010
322
wakaflame201 on May 20, 2016 wrote:
Yes it is an advantage and i feel like most will disagree because like 98% of the players exploit balance to get an easy warlord. The difference is that elemental blades and spirits and traps can be trained by other schools and they get 2 sets of 3 shields not just 1 set of 2. To be able to train everyone individual shields and then have their own individual no one can train is not fair. Balance has one of the best defenses in game besides ice btw. Balance school has an answer for everything in pvp. Also when have balance have any problem buffing when they have every blade at that their disposal and a bubble?? Another thing Death has it worst than balance when it comes to ruining hit set ups because they can barely use any other their own utility but other schools can use it faithly to take off converts when balance has a instantly use any school. I would love to see use you bad juju, empower, dark pact or sacrifice when you have blade on which at the same time needing over 100 damage with 40 pierce to deal some decent damage.
Balance must be played differently than the other schools because it is different. You see these shields as an advantage. Maybe they are. However, Balance has no convert and Balance cannot remove a weakness by using an off-school wand or spell. If you Weakness a Balance, and they're not carrying TC Cleanse, they're going to hit through it. The shields are a "pro" (not sure I actually agree, but...) The lack of convert and way to remove weaknesses would be a con. Despite this being a huge bone of contention with many who play Balance, I don't think it should get a convert - part of playing Balance is different because Balance is different.

Balance has two spells that do unpredictable school damage; you know it's going to be Elemental Damage, but not which. Balance has no DoT spell. Balance's most effective spells are all trainable/craftable/droppable to by other schools as well - and at low levels seem to be more effectively used by every school but Balance.

These limitations are unique to Balance.

At high levels, where Balance excels, nobody is blade-stacking, so I'm not sure where that non sequitur is going. If you're having trouble beating Balance in 1v1, there are multiple strategies you can employ.
  • In PVP, these shields are only truly useful when fighting Balance; after Grand/Legendary Mastery Amulets aren't as common and fewer people are hitting off-school. Towers seem to be nearly as effective, as they aren't school specific. Use your cloaks and you have shields for days, weeks, even.
  • Unbalance.
  • Stack weaknesses - use a spell with an after-effect, buy TC plague, buy TC Weakness.
  • Add Balance Ward to your pet.

Is it possible that you're finding fighting Balance difficult because you're not thinking of them as different, but like every other school. Balance is different.

(And no, my Main Character is not Balance. I actually *rarely* play my Balance . My Main is Life, my First was Fire.)

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
High Five Ghost on May 22, 2016 wrote:
Most will disagree because a lot of people don't do PvP. So for PvE, what's the benefit? It's hard for KI to justify a change like this based solely on the, "Oh I can't beat X-School in PvP because they have this and I don't, so you have to do something to make it harder for them to beat me," reasoning.
In that case why can balance train other schools shields but they can't train their shields I only was suggesting just because they are unique and not trainable there should be like 1 pip on the card because it covers more than 2 school.

Mastermind
May 12, 2009
381
wakaflame201 on May 22, 2016 wrote:
You guys are clearly bias because i am guessing you all have balance as a main school. So you all are telling its fair that balance has unique shield with 3 sets of shields in 1 card that no one else can train? Also then go train every others schools shields?? How is that fair?? Elemental shields should either be trainable for other schools or have 1 pip added.
I dislike the way that is worded. Disagreeing does not always stem from bias. Keep your mind open to differing ideas.

Best of luck!
S.S.

Champion
Mar 28, 2010
437
wakaflame201 on May 22, 2016 wrote:
You guys are clearly bias because i am guessing you all have balance as a main school. So you all are telling its fair that balance has unique shield with 3 sets of shields in 1 card that no one else can train? Also then go train every others schools shields?? How is that fair?? Elemental shields should either be trainable for other schools or have 1 pip added.
I'm not biased towards balance, I've faced balances in the past, both from first and second and I have won several matches against them. Elemental shields never prove to be a problem in any of these matches because you can always blade up and use a dot such as frostbite, spiny, burning rampage, skeletal dragon and basilisk. So far, my only losses from balance ARE NOT from elemental Shields but from LOREMASTER spammers from second. In my opinion, this is a bigger problem than his elemental shield nuisance you speak of.

Historian
Nov 28, 2010
613
wakaflame201 on May 22, 2016 wrote:
In that case why can balance train other schools shields but they can't train their shields I only was suggesting just because they are unique and not trainable there should be like 1 pip on the card because it covers more than 2 school.
That still only covers off your own bias in PvP, something you were condemning others for doing.

To answer your question, every school has a trainable school blade that costs 0 pips and 0 training points, including Balance which has a universal blade.

However every school has a trainable school shield worth 80% resistance that costs 0 pips and 0 training points, except Balance. Every school has a trainable 2 off-school shield worth 70% resistance that costs 0 pips and 0 training points, except Balance. Ice has an extra universal shield that costs 0 pips and 0 training points. The answer for Balance is 2 trainable tri-shields worth 50% resistance that costs 0 pips and 0 training points. Balance has no other shields that they get for free.

If you throw a pip cost onto Balance's tri-shields, you have to throw it onto every shield. The fact that no school other than Balance can train the tri-shields, or that everybody can spend a ridiculous amount of training points to buy every other shield is not a sufficient reason to penalize Balance. The shields are fine the way they are with no pip cost.

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Adam Wintersinger on May 23, 2016 wrote:
I'm not biased towards balance, I've faced balances in the past, both from first and second and I have won several matches against them. Elemental shields never prove to be a problem in any of these matches because you can always blade up and use a dot such as frostbite, spiny, burning rampage, skeletal dragon and basilisk. So far, my only losses from balance ARE NOT from elemental Shields but from LOREMASTER spammers from second. In my opinion, this is a bigger problem than his elemental shield nuisance you speak of.
So in every school they have A single set shield, single set tc, set of 2 shields, set of 2 tc shields, pets shields give 90%, etc. There are currently approx 20 different shields against every school and balance can train them all plus have their own unique 3 shields that covers every school also meaning taking up less room in a deck. In any cases why arent elementals or spirits shields trainable?? Some of these players are the same ones who didnt see a problem with lore?? Which is less pips than samoorai but is way more convenient? Even Rampage basically doing as much as a shadow enhanced spell? Also not everyone is ice which is basically the direct counter to balance and also currently seen by most as the best school. Put a balance against a death they have every advantage. Put a ice against a death every advantage. Put fire against death every advantage. This why they are considered the top tiers because ice, fire and balance are considered the most favored and they're the most played. If you dont believe me go watch every rank match 110 and you will see majority warlords are these 3 schools. The game is currently and i believe it will forever be unbalanced which is kinda why i quit a week ago.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
wakaflame201 on May 20, 2016 wrote:
Yes it is an advantage and i feel like most will disagree because like 98% of the players exploit balance to get an easy warlord. The difference is that elemental blades and spirits and traps can be trained by other schools and they get 2 sets of 3 shields not just 1 set of 2. To be able to train everyone individual shields and then have their own individual no one can train is not fair. Balance has one of the best defenses in game besides ice btw. Balance school has an answer for everything in pvp. Also when have balance have any problem buffing when they have every blade at that their disposal and a bubble?? Another thing Death has it worst than balance when it comes to ruining hit set ups because they can barely use any other their own utility but other schools can use it faithly to take off converts when balance has a instantly use any school. I would love to see use you bad juju, empower, dark pact or sacrifice when you have blade on which at the same time needing over 100 damage with 40 pierce to deal some decent damage.
Perhaps you should look again at where you posted. This is not the PvP thread and I'd wager to say that many of the folks reading this don't care much about the advantages or disadvantages of anything when it comes to PvP. Myself included. Making all-encompassing changes to anything in the game to benefit a broken PvP system is ludicrous. Fix the system first then worry about what works in it and what doesn't. There's a dedicated area in which to post ideas concerning PvP and had I realized where you were eventually going with this (PvP) I wouldn't have responded after your first entry.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1304
wakaflame201 on May 22, 2016 wrote:
You guys are clearly bias because i am guessing you all have balance as a main school. So you all are telling its fair that balance has unique shield with 3 sets of shields in 1 card that no one else can train? Also then go train every others schools shields?? How is that fair?? Elemental shields should either be trainable for other schools or have 1 pip added.
Don't get touchy by saying we're all bias, because we are not. Balance was actually my first wizard. I've left her behind, because I can't stand Balance. I don't like it one bit and prefer any other school to play with. BUT, that's just my opinion and not everyone else's. I know people who play Balance very well and love it. I don't.

So, keep your mind open and listen to what others are saying. Learn about each of the schools, instead of criticizing and trying to change them.

Champion
Feb 06, 2010
416
wakaflame201 on May 16, 2016 wrote:
Due to Elemental + Spiritual shields coming in sets of three it should be a least 2 pips because they covers more than 2 schools. Its kinda unfair that balance have every school for free while costing 0 pips and then they can go train other shields + obtain pets that have triple shields for other schools. I have saw balance players ask for converts but there are yet to be any balance set shields?? Kinda questioning now why they have a damage bubble which if they are a support school why isn't the bubble universal or why they have the first duplication bubble that multiply with reshuffle? Not to mention they also have Steel giant treasure cards (4 pips) that hit all + damage over time. Balance also convert their own damage into other school when they attack + get all the buffs to make their attack hurt.....Well sorry for getting a little off subject but something need to be done.

Btw, I know many will say just use tower shields but towers aren't just for balance they are for every school.

Thank you
Balance suffers enough with no opposite school, a balance blade that can easily be contradicted with a weakness/shield. All of this is a struggle, and waiting on pips for shields/wards would just hop on to the long list of struggles that balance faces. If you think about it, it is more than fair; and with pierce growing ever stronger in the game, the shields become weak since they only subtract 50%

This sounds like a person who lost a pvp match!!!


Champion
Mar 28, 2010
437
wakaflame201 on May 23, 2016 wrote:
So in every school they have A single set shield, single set tc, set of 2 shields, set of 2 tc shields, pets shields give 90%, etc. There are currently approx 20 different shields against every school and balance can train them all plus have their own unique 3 shields that covers every school also meaning taking up less room in a deck. In any cases why arent elementals or spirits shields trainable?? Some of these players are the same ones who didnt see a problem with lore?? Which is less pips than samoorai but is way more convenient? Even Rampage basically doing as much as a shadow enhanced spell? Also not everyone is ice which is basically the direct counter to balance and also currently seen by most as the best school. Put a balance against a death they have every advantage. Put a ice against a death every advantage. Put fire against death every advantage. This why they are considered the top tiers because ice, fire and balance are considered the most favored and they're the most played. If you dont believe me go watch every rank match 110 and you will see majority warlords are these 3 schools. The game is currently and i believe it will forever be unbalanced which is kinda why i quit a week ago.
Those 3 schools do have advantages over the rest, I agree but changing the elemental shield cost won't do much to solve this issue? What would it do? Would it magically fix Loremaster or would it magically give death a good lore spell or even nerf ice? No, it does none of these and these are all bigger problems than elemental shields. Not to mention, you keep forgetting that DOT's exist which can counter these shields easily, you even said it yourself burning rampage does as much as a shadow enhanced spell. I ask you this, if elemental shields are truly a problem than why is ice a better school than balance in max lvl pvp?