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Castle Darkmoor Nerf!

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Feb 02, 2014
98
Alex Stormlight on Nov 23, 2014 wrote:
I would like to suggest to King Isle that if Castle Darkmoor is nerfed that all the good drop rates are made much lower too. Its not fair to all of us who have achieved this good gear through skill to have these dungeons simplified for people who cannot learn the game well.
100% agree.

Hey Prince of Shadows, you ask Alex to stand in your shoes, but you also need to stand in his. I don't believe his remarks were meant with motives of condescension. How would you feel if you had worked very hard to achieve a rare item and next thing you know everyone has it because it was made more readily available? Rarity and unique items make the game diverse.

This coming from someone who has not completed the dungeon, but has completed the hardest dungeons in other games and been through this same cry nerf from the masses experience.

And to those who claim the ones who claim they've beaten it are rude for not teaching you how, are you serious? If every successful person is somehow obliged to teach every non successful person how to be successful, they would not have any time left over to achieve their own success or new successes or reap the benefits of their success.

When's the last time you stood in wizard city and offered your help to players that are less experienced than you? In a huge game like this, that is a never ending prospect. Yes I believe in pay it forward, but obligatory slavedom to lesser players (and not in a demeaning way, some people just have different organization of their priorities for spending on the game, time in the game etc. which is 100% ok) is not fair to claim either.

Explorer
Apr 21, 2012
96
skills, right, no problem...

I just got out after finishing shane von shane.

Something broken? First time I had critical gear on, low resist. Vampire hit me around 800.

Second round in, had full jade and a resist pet. Vampire hit me around 800. (Note same amount in damage)
.
I put a tower, it is showing pierced to 10 percent. 40 percent resist right?

Why did the vampire then only hit about 250, resist ignored in this dungeon? On top of everything else?

Mind doing the math for me on that one? Take your time. I check back in a few weeks after I cool down.

No, didn't bring this issue up at all some months ago, not at all.

Burned 3 calculators trying to figure it out the first time. This time I point blank ask.

Hero
Aug 18, 2011
772
FrelaB on Nov 24, 2014 wrote:
100% agree.

Hey Prince of Shadows, you ask Alex to stand in your shoes, but you also need to stand in his. I don't believe his remarks were meant with motives of condescension. How would you feel if you had worked very hard to achieve a rare item and next thing you know everyone has it because it was made more readily available? Rarity and unique items make the game diverse.

This coming from someone who has not completed the dungeon, but has completed the hardest dungeons in other games and been through this same cry nerf from the masses experience.

And to those who claim the ones who claim they've beaten it are rude for not teaching you how, are you serious? If every successful person is somehow obliged to teach every non successful person how to be successful, they would not have any time left over to achieve their own success or new successes or reap the benefits of their success.

When's the last time you stood in wizard city and offered your help to players that are less experienced than you? In a huge game like this, that is a never ending prospect. Yes I believe in pay it forward, but obligatory slavedom to lesser players (and not in a demeaning way, some people just have different organization of their priorities for spending on the game, time in the game etc. which is 100% ok) is not fair to claim either.
Please re-read my post. You seem to be responding to things I didn't say. I'm not "asking Alex to stand in my shoes".

I have no problem with it the way it is. I can run Graveyard in a half hour. I have Mali gear. I am also fine with others having it. I won't feel my gear or my accomplishment is in any way diminished if someone else gets it. Jealousy and selfishness are awful traits, and too common in games like this. I dislike elitism, and those who pander to it.

This gear will be common anyway, as everyone at level wants it, so it's not like you will have something unique or permanently exclusive. It's the new WaterWorks. I would like there to be a special badge for the (harder) side boss. That's an accomplishment that deserves a badge or unique drop item.

If you haven't run the dungeon, I suggest reserving judgement until you have. It's a lot of fun as it is, and I hope it won't be nerfed much, as it is one of the few real challenges in the game. But with the pierce as it is now, in most gear there's a significant chance of being killed before you can even cast a spell. I think that's excessive for many players. Skill, in the form of teamwork and good spell selection is great, but it shouldn't require expensive crown gear to survive the opening round. the ~40% pierce could come down to ~25%, and the Beguile cheat made slightly less common and it would still be a challenging, interesting instance.

"obligatory slavedom to lesser players" sounds quite demeaning.

I offer help to less experienced players almost every day. I have fantastic gear and pets, and I am happy to help anyone who wants them get the same, as long as they are polite and willing to put in the effort. Helping others takes nothing from us; quite the opposite! It makes the game more fun and builds a stronger community.

For anyone struggling with this instance, here's our latest guide, and fight-by-fight videos:

http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?425978-Rolling-Over-in-His-Grave-A-guide-to-Castle-Darkmoor-s-Graveyard-W-Speed-Run-Tips

We used a 4-round attack on Yevgeny, but it can sometimes be done in 3 at greater risk. The 3-round on Shane is reliable. If you have a fire hammer rather than storm, you can omit the steal and Backdraft the boss. The Mali fight will vary depending on your team, but your best bet is usually a 3rd or 4th round AoE to take out minions, then a second hit on the boss.

You can do it folks!

Defender
May 23, 2009
105
FrelaB on Nov 24, 2014 wrote:
100% agree.

Hey Prince of Shadows, you ask Alex to stand in your shoes, but you also need to stand in his. I don't believe his remarks were meant with motives of condescension. How would you feel if you had worked very hard to achieve a rare item and next thing you know everyone has it because it was made more readily available? Rarity and unique items make the game diverse.

This coming from someone who has not completed the dungeon, but has completed the hardest dungeons in other games and been through this same cry nerf from the masses experience.

And to those who claim the ones who claim they've beaten it are rude for not teaching you how, are you serious? If every successful person is somehow obliged to teach every non successful person how to be successful, they would not have any time left over to achieve their own success or new successes or reap the benefits of their success.

When's the last time you stood in wizard city and offered your help to players that are less experienced than you? In a huge game like this, that is a never ending prospect. Yes I believe in pay it forward, but obligatory slavedom to lesser players (and not in a demeaning way, some people just have different organization of their priorities for spending on the game, time in the game etc. which is 100% ok) is not fair to claim either.
Are you saying we shouldn't help others because it will never end since people are always out there to be helped? If we do, we won't have time to divulge our success?

As I feel that Castle Darkmoor is currently not fun (piercing, time, difficulty), I am finding others things to do in the spiral. Maybe I will have more fun next month in Castle Darkmoor when I have more time to play during the holidays. I don't feel that the dungeon should be nerfed though because I know I just don't have the time. Not KI's fault nor the dungeon, but me.

Survivor
Aug 05, 2009
10
TPG Miserie on Nov 25, 2014 wrote:
Are you saying we shouldn't help others because it will never end since people are always out there to be helped? If we do, we won't have time to divulge our success?

As I feel that Castle Darkmoor is currently not fun (piercing, time, difficulty), I am finding others things to do in the spiral. Maybe I will have more fun next month in Castle Darkmoor when I have more time to play during the holidays. I don't feel that the dungeon should be nerfed though because I know I just don't have the time. Not KI's fault nor the dungeon, but me.
I think it is still KI's fault. It is their job to cater to their customers if they want to continue to be a successful company. How hard would it be to make these dungeons available at varying difficulties, so that those without adequate time and a core group of talented friends can still complete it and obtain some decent gear and their level 100 spell? Many other MMOs have dungeons that can be run at differing levels of difficulty and the higher difficulty levels give better gear rewards. Many dungeons in Wizard101 already adjust based on the level of the wizard running it. There is no reason that KI can't make a VERSION of this dungeon easier or at least less time consuming for those with less skill, less friends, and less time. Skipping Tower of the Elephant, Tartarus, or even Waterworks wasn't a big deal in the past, but skipping this one means missing part of the long running story and a vital spell (which I'm sure for most players is one of the primary reasons they enjoy the game...spells). And finding a group to run this after the next expansion comes out will be nearly impossible, so if you don't get the spell soon, you will just be screwed. KI is alienating a large population within the community if they don't make adjustments, or at least an alternative version of this dungeon.

Mastermind
Oct 11, 2010
307
These maps are not that bad its a 40 minute run with the right team. Now when you use that team up thing and end up with max level wizards in garbage gear your not going to have a 40 minute run if it even goes anywhere.

I wish there was a board for looking for teams instead of random team up option. It shows your LEVEL your SCHOOL and what you want to do. so players who only want to farm one boss can meet up with a jade or hammer to farm it ETC make since? I personally can jade for any school except balance and be the hammer for a jade player playing as my death.

Survivor
Apr 13, 2012
4
Firefister420 on Nov 26, 2014 wrote:
I think it is still KI's fault. It is their job to cater to their customers if they want to continue to be a successful company. How hard would it be to make these dungeons available at varying difficulties, so that those without adequate time and a core group of talented friends can still complete it and obtain some decent gear and their level 100 spell? Many other MMOs have dungeons that can be run at differing levels of difficulty and the higher difficulty levels give better gear rewards. Many dungeons in Wizard101 already adjust based on the level of the wizard running it. There is no reason that KI can't make a VERSION of this dungeon easier or at least less time consuming for those with less skill, less friends, and less time. Skipping Tower of the Elephant, Tartarus, or even Waterworks wasn't a big deal in the past, but skipping this one means missing part of the long running story and a vital spell (which I'm sure for most players is one of the primary reasons they enjoy the game...spells). And finding a group to run this after the next expansion comes out will be nearly impossible, so if you don't get the spell soon, you will just be screwed. KI is alienating a large population within the community if they don't make adjustments, or at least an alternative version of this dungeon.
I agree. Getting into the game and looking for teams (or setting one up) might take away a great deal of play time any consumer has. Some players can do it within an hour or less, however they suggest ideas that makes themselves superior as if they are the only people paying to play the games.

When they talk about "weak" or "garbage" gears, they have forgotten that these people are trying to farm for nicer gears too, or that they have chosen to ignore it.

P.S. Who would want to let their child play for hours on end just to farm for gears

Delver
Dec 30, 2012
291
I actually take back what I said about nerfing Darkmoor.
If they nerfed it, the drops would be way too hard to get.
Would you rather have a long drawn out battle and be almost certain to get something good, or months of attempts for low chances of something good?

They should not nerf it, it is obviously doable.

Survivor
Sep 21, 2010
9
i would much rather the battles be easier than have to deal with the horror of dying 20 times and making the battle last all day, I say nerf it!

Explorer
May 07, 2009
52
I see no reason to nerf it. This is the kind of difficulty and complxity I've always been looking for in Wizard101.

Mastermind
Jul 26, 2011
306
Ruthless Anthony on Nov 26, 2014 wrote:
I actually take back what I said about nerfing Darkmoor.
If they nerfed it, the drops would be way too hard to get.
Would you rather have a long drawn out battle and be almost certain to get something good, or months of attempts for low chances of something good?

They should not nerf it, it is obviously doable.
For me the drops are extremely hard to get let alone get a team that actually wants a fire on their team. My last run I got nothing from any boss except a gold key from Shane Von Shane in the Graveyard dungeon and the worst athame Darkmoor has to offer (which I already got 3 times) at Malistaire after 4 hours of my time in which I feel I got cheated I guess i'm extremely unlucky

Delver
Apr 20, 2011
221
Jason Moonshade on Nov 23, 2014 wrote:
I completely agree, Darkmoor is just too much. It's not even enjoyable. I spent seven hours trying to improve my strategy, deck, team, etc. and I didn't even make it past Sir Blackwater. I can't imagine someone having fun while doing this. I appreciate them lowering the drop rates, but the difficulty overpasses the element of improvement. The sooner I finish this dungeon, the better.
I understand that it's optional, but the fact that you have to complete the first two parts to get the new spell makes it kind of necessary, since the spells will most likely be needed in future worlds.
KingsIsle had so much potential for this dungeon because the storyline is just fantastic. It tied up the second arc perfectly. And actually, the other features of the update were great improvements to the game. I enjoyed going through the first three dungeons as well. I think a lot of people were awaiting Darkmoor, and they could have delivered a much better dungeon.
I really do hope they take our requests into consideration. The cheats were overdone.

Jason Moonshade
Jason
Are you saying you get the new spell once you've defeated Sir Blackwater, if that's so then myself and the three other wizards I was dueling alongside were seriously ripped off because we didn't get any spell even though he spams the new life, storm and death ones at you. We did have to flee and return on a few occasions but we were all very experienced wizards with jade gear. I will be really upset if I discover we missed out on our spells just because we had to flee and port back.
Michael Stormhammer Exhalted

Survivor
Feb 26, 2012
1
Yes this dungeon it is too hard for anyone, the cheats are ok, but at least remove the armor piercing we don't have such a resist for those armor pierces.Bosses have over 60% and minions 30%.Also it is pretty hard to find someone who knows what does he do.At least, i say at least remove the armor pierce and the triggers for pets.Yesterday i was in second fight of the graveyard and one ice guy with 65% resist to all his pet healed him 5 times with sprite and Shane Von Shane killed him for one round which is unfair.

Archon
Oct 24, 2010
4952
Firefister420 on Nov 26, 2014 wrote:
I think it is still KI's fault. It is their job to cater to their customers if they want to continue to be a successful company. How hard would it be to make these dungeons available at varying difficulties, so that those without adequate time and a core group of talented friends can still complete it and obtain some decent gear and their level 100 spell? Many other MMOs have dungeons that can be run at differing levels of difficulty and the higher difficulty levels give better gear rewards. Many dungeons in Wizard101 already adjust based on the level of the wizard running it. There is no reason that KI can't make a VERSION of this dungeon easier or at least less time consuming for those with less skill, less friends, and less time. Skipping Tower of the Elephant, Tartarus, or even Waterworks wasn't a big deal in the past, but skipping this one means missing part of the long running story and a vital spell (which I'm sure for most players is one of the primary reasons they enjoy the game...spells). And finding a group to run this after the next expansion comes out will be nearly impossible, so if you don't get the spell soon, you will just be screwed. KI is alienating a large population within the community if they don't make adjustments, or at least an alternative version of this dungeon.
I absolutely agree with this. The dungeons are way too long for the average (or pretty much any) player. This needs to change, and like now. Those 50 million players? Yeah, that won't last...

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
RavenLady777 on Nov 27, 2014 wrote:
I absolutely agree with this. The dungeons are way too long for the average (or pretty much any) player. This needs to change, and like now. Those 50 million players? Yeah, that won't last...
I agree as well. Casual players simply don't have 12 hours to set aside.

Survivor
Aug 04, 2011
3
You don't even understand the pain I am going through right now. I have beaten darkmoor around 4 times and can't see to get anything good. Secondly, I have attempted this mosh pit of rage and always get stuck somewhere. For instance, a good 10 minutes ago my entire team rage quit at Shane von Shane (Robot form) because I was about to owl him to death when I fizzle and immediately after he uses the new storm spell which removes all blades. And our tank quits. Then it goes into a downward spiral. I fizzle twice more and when I finally get a hit on him I don't even critical. Remember we have been in this fight for a good half hour and we can't seem to beat him how we normally do. My recommendations; consider nerfing bosses in the third dungeon of the castle, also improve drop rates because I can't get any loot!
- Every exalted wizard ever.

Survivor
Aug 05, 2009
10
Being a holiday, I actually had extra time yesterday and found a good enough group to make it through the first two dungeons in a few hours. I was so excited to get my new spell, but I got beguiled right before our hammer hit and I got killed. They all left the dungeon before I could get back in and I was never able to turn the quest in to complete upper halls. I had the same thing happen to me another day on a run where I died at the end of Sir Blackwater and I didn't get credit for completing the quest. That is just wrong. Seriously KI, after about 6 years of paying for a subscription, and two more for my kids....including 3 subs for Pirate101, I'm about to drop them all, or at least my two subs. You have forgotten about your casual playing customers. By the time I will have time to play for that long again it will be Christmas, then who knows how long after that. At this point I don't even care about the story that much, just want my spell.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
894
All mmorpg's face this issue, and here is what DDO did to address it, and they have had huge success with it: Install a difficulty meter for dungeons<novice, casual ,average, hardcore ,insane,>. This allows all play styles to do the dungeon at their preferred level of difficulty. *** Note- while most of the the same gear is available at the same drop rate as the other dungeons, it will be a slightly less boosted version of the higher difficulty dungeons. A few incredibly rare/epic items can only be attained at the hardcore/insane levels.***
This method is the best compromise I have seen for everyone. It allows the younger/novice skilled players to play and get the drops, and it allows the more skillful players a better reward for their efforts. I realize no method is perfect, and will assuage everyone, but this is the closest I have seen.


Survivor
Jan 25, 2010
21
They need to seriously nerf this. I have never gotten past Shane von Shane and probably never will unless an update occurs. Not gonna play it until they weaken it. Plz nerf Castle Darkmoor Kingsisle so that it is not so hard!

Survivor
Aug 05, 2009
10
Intrepidatius on Nov 28, 2014 wrote:
All mmorpg's face this issue, and here is what DDO did to address it, and they have had huge success with it: Install a difficulty meter for dungeons<novice, casual ,average, hardcore ,insane,>. This allows all play styles to do the dungeon at their preferred level of difficulty. *** Note- while most of the the same gear is available at the same drop rate as the other dungeons, it will be a slightly less boosted version of the higher difficulty dungeons. A few incredibly rare/epic items can only be attained at the hardcore/insane levels.***
This method is the best compromise I have seen for everyone. It allows the younger/novice skilled players to play and get the drops, and it allows the more skillful players a better reward for their efforts. I realize no method is perfect, and will assuage everyone, but this is the closest I have seen.

I have been suggesting this for awhile. It is the only way that everyone gets what they want. Casual and novice players don't miss out on content, the hardcore (raiding type) with active in game friends get the challenge and gear they want, and KI keeps everyone happy and maintains all their current subscriptions along with more to come. Lets just hope they are listening to us. They have made great improvements in the past year, but with some simple tweaks they can be even better. Great post!

Explorer
Sep 26, 2012
59
Did I miss it or no one talked about the cheat behavior with pets?
The cheats react to pet actions in these dungeons!
I thought that would be THE big discussion instead of asking to lower the difficulty :
as it was already said, these dungeons are optionnal, they are a challenge like Elephant Tower and Waterworks were in their time...
and actually, I still think Elephant Tower is the hardest dungeon of the Spiral if you do it at level 60 ;+P

So, about this insane pet thing...
It looks like a bug and I hope it'll be fixed (we already saw that for example with the Squid in Atlantea : Earthquakes each time a pet healed, that was crazy, lol, but luckily fixed after a while).

I'm not whining because I could do these dungeons anyway, I had a lot of fun and will do them again (and again... ;+)
Though, I have several pets on each wizard and could choose the better ones depending on the kind of fights.
But that's not the case for most players who just have one good pet (and sometimes not even a very good one, even at level 100).

Try Shane with a May Cast Sprite or Fairy, he casts a cheating Vampire that does often more than 1000 damage to regular wizards and that can be dangerous for tank wizards too if the fight is too long...
I saw wizards killed this way, thanks to their healing pets, lol!
Another example, Malistaire steals Tower Shields from Guardian Wall pets (and probably the blades from May Cast Balance or Dragon blades), pretty not handy, eh, eh.
It really feels wrong as we can't control pets actions and, after sometimes months of pet improvement, being killed by an obviously good pet that tried to heal, you just want to trash it, lol.

Although, the outrageous good spells and gear we can get in Darkmoor can explain that cheat madness ;+P
I just hope, seen pet actions by cheats, won't start to be a standard in the next worlds, we would really have to trash our pets to create new ones ;+S

Delver
Jun 02, 2010
222
cooldude1907 on Nov 28, 2014 wrote:
They need to seriously nerf this. I have never gotten past Shane von Shane and probably never will unless an update occurs. Not gonna play it until they weaken it. Plz nerf Castle Darkmoor Kingsisle so that it is not so hard!
Do your realize its possible to defeat Shane Von Shane in 2 rounds. My specially prepared team did exactly that. To be honest. Shane Von Shane seriously needs to work on his battle skills.

Historian
Nov 28, 2010
613
Dr Von on Nov 28, 2014 wrote:
I agree as well. Casual players simply don't have 12 hours to set aside.
Ultimately I think this is the biggest issue.

I haven't tried Darkmoor yet, but I can't even put together a team for Tartarus. I've gotten 3 of my wizards through it, but all the people I run dungeons with are becoming hardcore gamers who lack patience to wait for people who don't have the time to do what they want to do when they want to do it. Trying to line up a team to do dungeons I need to do when I have the time to do them is near impossible.

There just seems to be a different culture that's been created ever since Waterworks was launched. All of these dungeons with their extreme challenges have changed the environment. It's less family, more hardcore gamer.

Survivor
Mar 22, 2013
6
Surely it should be a challenge, they cant just make it easy it would be boring

Survivor
Mar 22, 2013
6
Dr Von on Nov 28, 2014 wrote:
I agree as well. Casual players simply don't have 12 hours to set aside.
It doesn't take 12 it can take about 3 surely people can do it at the weekend?