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This Game.... The Magic is Gone...

AuthorMessage
Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
391
Monsoon Jo on May 15, 2013 wrote:
I think difficulty in the game and "feeling the magic" are closely intertwined in W101. Its silly not to talk about one without the other. All of us felt that magic in the air when you can manage to smell the flowers by the wayside and read Malistaire's storybook in one hand while the other is keeping enemies at bay with a simple wave of the wrist. Its intoxicating to be powerful, a deadly virtual trap.

Back then, because it is an easy 1st arc, Ones "magic" rely heavily in harnessing the waterworks gear. Having It equates to an automatic win. Unfortunately, this is one of the greatest illusion if not mistake of W101.Not only did it rob the game of creativity, it also eliminated the "need" to do other key elements of the game like gardening, crafting, pet training or hatching. Why bother at all? they are time-consuming, underwhelming even boring to worry about early in the game. Malistaire can be beaten without doing any of them.

Enter 2nd arc. Still infatuated with the promise of greatness without doing much. Wizards expected to crush everything without lifting a finger. W101 evolved and change but not stubborn players. KI yielded and nerfed most the worlds bosses and reduced defeat and collect quests but we want more. We are slowly winning the game by our own cheat, a powerful no-pip required AoE spell called complaining.

Magic is always present to players with a pinch of persistence. The need to explore and satisfy ones curiosity when figuring out a cheating boss, fine tuning your deck strategy, harvesting that last amber or finally having that rare drop fm a boss you fought for the nth time is reward in itself. The real value is in the journey, not the destination. But to a faulty player who thinks otherwise & looses a lot, magic is nil. Azteca's somber ending is one of the best yet. Morganthe and Undying Malistaire's return is still unfolding. Crowns? you dont need them if you plan ahead and know what you are doing.
ill say again i beat azteca without any crowns what so ever, i also didnt have the need to change my deck unless i was putting converts in as i have 5 free spaces for those in my deck. yes i will agree that they have lifted the burden a little by making those defeat and collect quest and some bosses easier but im not sure if anyone else has noticed.

as for the water works dungeon, yes it could have been the cause of all this and it just might be but its here and we have to deal with it one way or the other, the problem that im finding is that it is now madatory to have universal block and resist yet almost all of the gear in azteca completely lacks that however there are those few very rare peices that can match up to water works finally like the robe i have on my pyromancer(turquoise eagles rainment i think is what its called, i have it cause lord scooter ate my ww robe). the main problem for me is i need my accuracy, universal resistance, universal block, and damage boost all in one package or else my strategy is ruined. to tell you what that strategy is here are my stats once again(some are rounded as i dont know the exact numbers)
4200 health
78 damage boost
41 universal resistance
120 universal block
140critical(around 55 for others
30 to 45 health boost(in and out combined)
94% accuracy
if you couldnt guess my strategy is have a good defense and go all out on offense and if i do say so myself those are pretty hard stats to beat but i have high hopes for next worlds crafting gear even if it you can only get it at the end of the next world like in azteca.

as for persistance i have plenty as i completed azteca and got a mega pet in the process as well as farmed for some very special anthems and rings also i have enough skill to not even have to change my deck. however i reconize that others are not as gifted as me and even with changing decks some people end up taking 10 tries before finally beating a boss witch is not fun but what can you do, well suggestions have been made and some of them have been really good for instance, easy realms where mobs and bosses have less health and stuff that makes it easier in those realms, an option to help you find someone on the same quest as you and now that is the way to promote working together right there not all this random guessing and realm switching. i agree its the adventure that counts and not so much the destanation but for those who cant make it there needs to be an option to lessen the burden on them(like not forcing us to play pet games to feed pets) or else they will continue to complain and complain untill something significant is done to help them. trufully these are the only ways i can think of to lessen the complaints and make a happier message boards(and game).

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2179
Chelseawhisper on May 14, 2013 wrote:
I remember back in Krokotopia with the puzzles and the bosses, that was the fun days. Malistare was challenging, but didn't cheat = a fun challenge cheating bosses have become mandatory= not so fun. When they brought in the cheating bosses and made them an option I am finding now more and more cheating bosses have become mandatory to move on to the next section of a world. I want to start off by saying I still love this game, but the cheating bosses have made the game less enjoyable. I love to solo the game and I love a challenge. One of the greatest things about this game is they actually listen to their players. High level bosses are a fun challenge, but there is a difference in between a challenge and cheating bosses. Removing them from the game will make it more fun again. If this continues into Azteca I don't see my self continuing in the game and spending my money here. I like to play not feel like I need to complete an annoying chore. I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way. I really hope KI considers changing some things around (removing cheating bosses). I see in the near future more and more people quitting due to this annoying feature. Towers are fun on their own, add the cheating bosses at the top is not fun.
Cheating bosses now and then are ok, but, I agree that when it becomes mandatory in order to progress, it is taking the fun and enjoyment away faster and faster. Cheating bosses should be an optional side quest, not required, but with the best drops in the game as well. Similar to WW.

There are some Cheating bosses in Az that are not wise to try to solo. Jabberwock is just one of them. There are however, if you check the guides on Central, some that you can actually solo.

I like a challenge but I don't like a defeat without a fight. Unfortunately, that is happening too much in Az and that is not fun nor is it magic. Our wizards are so un-prepared for Az that is the least fun world this game has to offer.

@Sarahnimo said
"Back then, because it is an easy 1st arc, Ones "magic" rely heavily in harnessing the waterworks gear. Having It equates to an automatic win. Unfortunately, this is one of the greatest illusion if not mistake of W101.Not only did it rob the game of creativity, it also eliminated the "need" to do other key elements of the game like gardening, crafting, pet training or hatching. Why bother at all? they are time-consuming, underwhelming even boring to worry about early in the game. Malistaire can be beaten without doing any of them."

Not sure what you are getting at here, but WW gear was not intended for the first arc and did not come out until the second arc was already in the game. Having it does NOT equate an automatic win. If it did, then my Balance wizard should be soaring through CL. It did not eliminate the need to garden, farm, craft or pet train. It DID give our wizards a little more even footing with the boss/mobs we faced at the time. Since then, our wizards have become weaklings until you can complete the crafting quest in Az to be able to crafte the best lvl 90 gear or buy the Crowns gear which I don't do. In Av, you can't get to the recipe vendor until you get to Dun Dara unless a friend helps you so you can port.

Fun and magic do not equal frustration. It is frustrating when you repeatedly have to battle the same mobs to collect a bit of information. It is frustrating when you have to repeatedly face that boss because he can defeat you in the first round without blinking and eye. It is frustrating to get useless drops/quest rewards like common reagents but nothing of any worth to equip our wizards with. It is frustrating to repeatedly farm and farm for a much needed reagent and not get it. The storyline is frustrating when you can't hang on to it.

Where is the fun and magic?

Explorer
Jan 19, 2010
56
DragonLady1818 on May 16, 2013 wrote:
Cheating bosses now and then are ok, but, I agree that when it becomes mandatory in order to progress, it is taking the fun and enjoyment away faster and faster. Cheating bosses should be an optional side quest, not required, but with the best drops in the game as well. Similar to WW.

There are some Cheating bosses in Az that are not wise to try to solo. Jabberwock is just one of them. There are however, if you check the guides on Central, some that you can actually solo.

I like a challenge but I don't like a defeat without a fight. Unfortunately, that is happening too much in Az and that is not fun nor is it magic. Our wizards are so un-prepared for Az that is the least fun world this game has to offer.

@Sarahnimo said
"Back then, because it is an easy 1st arc, Ones "magic" rely heavily in harnessing the waterworks gear. Having It equates to an automatic win. Unfortunately, this is one of the greatest illusion if not mistake of W101.Not only did it rob the game of creativity, it also eliminated the "need" to do other key elements of the game like gardening, crafting, pet training or hatching. Why bother at all? they are time-consuming, underwhelming even boring to worry about early in the game. Malistaire can be beaten without doing any of them."

Not sure what you are getting at here, but WW gear was not intended for the first arc and did not come out until the second arc was already in the game. Having it does NOT equate an automatic win. If it did, then my Balance wizard should be soaring through CL. It did not eliminate the need to garden, farm, craft or pet train. It DID give our wizards a little more even footing with the boss/mobs we faced at the time. Since then, our wizards have become weaklings until you can complete the crafting quest in Az to be able to crafte the best lvl 90 gear or buy the Crowns gear which I don't do. In Av, you can't get to the recipe vendor until you get to Dun Dara unless a friend helps you so you can port.

Fun and magic do not equal frustration. It is frustrating when you repeatedly have to battle the same mobs to collect a bit of information. It is frustrating when you have to repeatedly face that boss because he can defeat you in the first round without blinking and eye. It is frustrating to get useless drops/quest rewards like common reagents but nothing of any worth to equip our wizards with. It is frustrating to repeatedly farm and farm for a much needed reagent and not get it. The storyline is frustrating when you can't hang on to it.

Where is the fun and magic?
I agree with you that cheating bosses should be side quests only, BUT if you're anything like me and grab all quests you see, then you won't know that you just grabbed a cheating boss quest and have to complete it, because I can't stand quests in my book that aren't completed. Since we can't delete quests it's now made mandatory.

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
Golden said:

"It did not eliminate the need to garden, farm, craft or pet train. It DID give our wizards a little more even footing with the boss/mobs we faced at the time. "

Oh but it did, players became too complacent with WW gears. If it didn't have that impact on the game, people wouldn't be clamoring for another WW dungeon. Easy stats on a drop, no crafting, no pet talents required to boost numbers therefore no reagents needed, gardening, pet training or hatching to bother with. Instant gratification. Where is the fun in that?

"Fun and magic do not equal frustration."

Unlike you, I dont get frustrated. It's just a game, I bicker when beaten but I always come back bringing more thought on my gameplay to finish the job. Your post just proved my point, I enjoy what I'm doing, you don't, I like the adventure, you don't want to run around in circles, what you see as frustrating, I see as a challenge. How can you appreciate the storyline if you are busy
grumbling over petty things like poor drops and gears and hating every single step to finish crafting? I don't play having that mindset. I'll be happy having mistwood as a drop if it means I have the chance to single-handedly defeat Jabberwock, to bring down two 20K bosses with a switch of a card in my deck or winning by one life point after a tough fight because I made that final critical move. To me that is gaming, that is where fun and magic is. Savoring both the hateful and triumphant experiences as a battle scar or bragging rights with friends even random groups is what brings me to this game. Not instant gratification. That is not what having magic back to this game is all about. After five prometheans, I fail to see the "need" to gain more footing to be on level ground with this game. Especially not after all the nerfing that is being done already. It all boils down to the one playing the game as much as where the game is right now.

Defender
Apr 22, 2012
114
crystal2020164 on Mar 29, 2013 wrote:
you can't expect an easy walk through the game. so basically you dont want the new worlds to get harder and keep their difficulty at mooshu or dragonspyre difficulty? The game is supposed to be hard in the higher worlds. Use new strategies. Take some time thinking through your deck. This isnt supposed to be a stroll in the park you know. There has to be some strategic places.
Spark4470 is right, the reason of this being a game is that it gets more challenging as you get better at this game, if the game stayed at the same level for the whole time, we would be getting better but the enemies would stay the same, we would all get massively bored and demand new people and who wants that? Seriously, I think they have done a wonderful job and give them credit, with all the effects and artwork put into this game it would be a lot of work, even around wizard city take a walk around there and look at all the hard work and detail we all rushed through before, why do we spend the money you ask? they can't make that stuff for free, so yea, if it stayed at the same difficulty and we kept improving, most people would not like the game as much, and if you disagree, make a new wizard or go fight random battles in wizard city for badges, it's not like you have to do the ultra-hard quests if you don't want to, find an old side quest you never finished, who knows you might have fun.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
I was on a different site, and read the following, and think it should be posted here.....

Alexis wrote:
Well KI does act carelessly about w101 players, treating them often like either insignificant, or hostile customers. The official "Professor Greyrose" character from the wizard forums, who seems to be the on-line public relations person, is an atrocious individual - the answers show awfully little concern with the problems they answer to, very little knowledge of the game, and a very patronizing attitude. So I completely understand losing interest in the game, on the part of the great duellists or anyone else. Why on earth would anyone keep investing in a company that doesn't care, which does not even sell a vital product?
So I wasn't blaming anyone here. I was just confused by the change...

Pawned replied:
Alexis,
This post really hit me, as it's exactly how I have felt for some time. KI's lack of concern about the game and it's mechanics, has always bothered me. KI's total disregard for logical input, or directional change, is another issue.
Finally, locking the Reshuffle to just one use, after four plus years, even after they saw what happen in test. This is what has propelled me to finally leave PvP and the game.
It's just the careless, let me slap you in the face attitude, that has slowly pushed me away.

All the best,
pawned.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2179
Chelseawhisper on May 16, 2013 wrote:
I agree with you that cheating bosses should be side quests only, BUT if you're anything like me and grab all quests you see, then you won't know that you just grabbed a cheating boss quest and have to complete it, because I can't stand quests in my book that aren't completed. Since we can't delete quests it's now made mandatory.
I do grab all the quests I can, including all sides. I also check the guides on Central and if one of those quests happens to be one that I have tried a few times or, I know my wizards can't solo, I then make arrangements with friends to do them. I don't like have incompleted quests either but I leave none behind.

@Sarahnimo, since none if the issues seem to bother you, I am guessing that you are for lack of a better term a "hardcore player". This game was and still is advertised as a "casual family game" or "softcore". That is what brought a lot of kids and their families including aunts, uncles, and grandparents to play. The first arc is till that "casual family game". It still has the fun and magic.

The second arc took a bit of a leap with Cl. With each progressive world those leaps got wider until they are now canyons. The WW gear helped level the playing field for a lot of players that were willing to take the time to FARM for it. There is absolutely no way a player can do that dungeon ONE time and have all the gear for that wizard. It takes time and persistence just the same as gardening, pet training, and crafting, which MANY, MANY players do including myself. The WW dungeon along with ToH has drops that any wizard of the right level has access to. They are not a Walk in The Park.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having another WW dungeon if it means upgraded gear and excellent drops. Those dungeons also give players another way to get items that are generally CROWNS items that many players either can't or won't buy them. I say more power to those players because they EARNED it. I bought a 2 sets of crowns gear on each account right after I stared playing this game. I have not bought any since. I have been gifted the Life Force Blade and the lvl 90 Life Wand by very close friends. I DO farm for what I want from gear to seeds. My 3 top wizards only have 2 pieces each of WW gear and that is not from lack of trying. Saying that WW gear has made players complacent is bogus. It does help to have that gear but it is by no means giving any wizards the upper hand in battle.

I proved no point by saying I don't like running in circles. I did prove that Az has lost track of the story line. There is no fun or magic in constant repetition. There is no fun or magic when you have to repeatedly battle a boss and 2 minions trying to get your next spell. There is no fun or magic when you try and try to beat a boss that can defeat you within the first 2 rounds of battle and you have only 4 pips to start and he has 8-10+.

The fun and Magic are gone by the time you get to Az.

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
So we are back to labeling players who find no fault in the game again. Complaining will get you nowhere, justifying failure by blaming the game and seeing nothing wrong with you as a player is for the lack of a better term bogus.

"They are not a Walk in The Park."

We know that too well, its when its taking too long to sink in to some players is what baffles me. I also complain, but im done when i voiced it out once. I don't have the time or energy to do it over and over again like a broken record player. I can't see it making me feel better or bringing me any closer to my goals in the game. I'd rather use it to play those repetitious dungeons you are talking about.

"Saying that WW gear has made players complacent is bogus. It does help to have that gear but it is by no means giving any wizards the upper hand in battle."

A level 60 gear that can be worn all the way to Azteca isn't exactly weak. And I agree with you completely, players who have it, earned it. "It" being created in the game in the first place is what I am referring to as damaging to the game. WW dungeons are great to you, I see it differently. I think I'm entitled to my own opinion.

"I proved no point by saying I don't like running in circles. I did prove that Az has lost track of the story line. There is no fun or magic in constant repetition. There is no fun or magic when you have to repeatedly battle a boss and 2 minions trying to get your next spell. There is no fun or magic when you try and try to beat a boss that can defeat you within the first 2 rounds of battle and you have only 4 pips to start and he has 8-10+."

True, it isn't fun at all when you are losing. It's when you are finally winning by changing strategies or figuring out what works best is where the fun starts. It's a game, an elaborate puzzle to be solved. It's fairly okay to repeat it again and again because practice makes perfect, right? You have to lose to learn how to win.

Survivor
Mar 18, 2011
1
KorekuEternal on Mar 28, 2013 wrote:
I know I'm not the only one that feels this way, right?

I've been playing this game since Feb 2009. I was literally HOOKED. The spells, the quests, the friends I made... Man, those were the times lol. I played in the mornings, I played in the night, and then the next day, I wanted to do it all again. I had a ton of fun.

But then, something changed. I suddenly became less interested.

Something terribly wrong happened during the Celestia era. I was still having a blast in Wizard101 during the time, but with certain things like advanced pets and critical, the game was getting very technical. Of course the game was still good but It only got worse from there.

Nowadays in order to actually get far in a world (*cough* Azteca), you need a good pet which requires TONS of hatching and Mega snack packs (unless you farm Waterworks for hours, BLEH.), a mastery amulet, and in some cases, henchmen. I might as well throw a stash of money and instantly be done with Azteca lol, because that's what's happening...

I know you all think I'm just being a sourpuss, or a dirty blanket (wut) but come on, this game has changed tremendously. I feel like I'm playing Skyrim and WoW together, which is horrible because I come to this game to escape frustration from those sort of games. I came to this game as a casual "just wants to have fun while bored" player, but now I find myself working insanely hard on quests, pets, and crafted gear.

W101 is just like Spongebob, the new version of it is really bad, and people only enjoyed it because of what it had in the beginning, not what is has now lol.
I totally agree. But if there is one thing i like in the new game is are the new schools (). Hey this game is 10X harder with bosses hitting critical, cheating etc. Also the game is becoming very complex with different schools boosting different schools and other stuff like that.

Survivor
Dec 10, 2011
30
OK, I agree that the hardness of the game is way up, and Morganthe gives a much different feel than Malistare.
But in my opinion that is not a bad thing. Remember how intense Dragonspyre was when we came there. KI wants to make it clear that our new villain is much more powerful and evil than Malistare. I think that the original idea behind Morganthe was that in order to make someone who would be even more evil than Malistare would be someone who has the strongest love of all: self love. Many people are very ambitious, and people like that can connect to Morganthe better. Remember, every single post that you make is seen by KI. I think that they will likely make another alternate story line. This alternate story line could be longer than Grizzlehiem or Wysteria, and be more like the main story lines. I think that would be one of the ways that KI could get some players back. For example, Candy World could be an option. It could be another story line that you get after Malistare, but be whimsical and fun. Then, players that don't like Morganthe could have fun in another story line without having to do Celestia, and players who like Morganthe wouldn't have to say good bye to a truly great villain.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2179
Fishburt700 on May 18, 2013 wrote:
OK, I agree that the hardness of the game is way up, and Morganthe gives a much different feel than Malistare.
But in my opinion that is not a bad thing. Remember how intense Dragonspyre was when we came there. KI wants to make it clear that our new villain is much more powerful and evil than Malistare. I think that the original idea behind Morganthe was that in order to make someone who would be even more evil than Malistare would be someone who has the strongest love of all: self love. Many people are very ambitious, and people like that can connect to Morganthe better. Remember, every single post that you make is seen by KI. I think that they will likely make another alternate story line. This alternate story line could be longer than Grizzlehiem or Wysteria, and be more like the main story lines. I think that would be one of the ways that KI could get some players back. For example, Candy World could be an option. It could be another story line that you get after Malistare, but be whimsical and fun. Then, players that don't like Morganthe could have fun in another story line without having to do Celestia, and players who like Morganthe wouldn't have to say good bye to a truly great villain.
Even if KI did create another or alternate storyline there is still a catch and it won't change. Others found this out by bypassing Grizz/WT. Spell and pet quests have to be completed in what ever world they are in before you can access the next one. This ensures that all players will eventually do those worlds. This isn't going to change.

Dragonspyre was intense but, it did not advance at a difficulty rate that threw the first arc out of balance. The steady increase in difficulty in the first arc was designed in a way that the first arc was fun and magical all the way through.

Grizz was released in July 2009 requiring a lvl 20 to start and only being able to do a small area of quests, then you had to wait till you were lvl 25 to continue.. For some it was boring, but then it also had a difficulty level of Wizard City.

Sept. 2010 Crab Alley and WW came into the game. Crab Alley? I can take it or leave it but I don't pass up any sides so I do it. Plus it was added to give lower level players a taste of questing under water.

Celestia, was a big leap in the difficulty level when released in Oct. 2010, but, it was still fun and magical. A little long maybe, but not impossible to follow the storyline and a variety of creatures and bosses.

Now, a few months later, May 2011, here comes WinterTusk. Awesome world. It was playable by teams and those that like to solo. This was and imo, still is one of the best and most balanced worlds since the first arc. Fun and magic abounds. Gear that can be crafted early enough in the new world to help as you progress with some good stats and an added bonus for increasing energy for gardening and pet training. Wintertusk should have been added to the game before Cl.

Aug. 2011 Wysteria. Where is this little side world going to lead to if anywhere?

Nov. 2011 ZF, the next major main storyline update. Nice graphics, storyline still in evidence but extremely tedious with all the "Collects" and by this time we can no longer stack those kinds of quests. What makes these tedious? Take a look to see if there is a badge for the creature after you have fought a couple of them.

Now the worlds just start popping up even faster. May 2012, Avalon heavy but nice graphics, but the leap in difficulty and the balance of our wizards has taken another surge even though it is still very playable, you start running more in circles to complete your quests and the sides are no longer available unless you are sent to the NPC that gives them. Crafted gear vendors are deep in this world. Better have a friend that will let you port to those vendors. Spell quests? Deeper in than your wizard will be when the right level is reached.

Nov. 2012. Azteca. Storyline is lost in the shuffle and by the time you get half way in, you are asking yourself why you are stressing over this world. just drop it and go no further. The Fun and the magic are gone.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1304
Magic doesn't pertain to persistence. Magic does not pertain to WW gear or any other gear. The magic of the game is the immersion in the storyline. A feeling that you are part of saving the Spiral, where you look forward to the next steps to see what happens.

The first arc was beautifully written. Each world had a progression that made you want more.

The second arc is haphazard, the storyline frequently gets lost (if you remember it at all). Mob after mob, collection after collection, dungeon after dungeon. Where's the fun stuff in between? Where's the immersion into the storyline?

People use Waterworks gear through Azteca because there really isn't anything out there to craft, or in the Bazaar, or as a drop. As you level up, the gear gets worse.

This game is suppose to be about fun, relaxation, and a magical experience, not about strategy, difficulty, or constantly changing gear. Sure, the levels progress in difficulty, however, it doesn't need to be ramped up to the point where the casual gamers leave out of frustration.

If some people don't get frustrated ...... good for them. However, I would suggest taking off the blinders and look around and consider other players. Their voices need to be heard, too. Young and old, people who work, those with disabilities, etc. Losing (not loosing) battles isn't a big deal once in a while, but when people lose battles over and over again, especially the same ones, that's when some of the frustration comes into play.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2634
BrynnerOfReign on May 19, 2013 wrote:
Magic doesn't pertain to persistence. Magic does not pertain to WW gear or any other gear. The magic of the game is the immersion in the storyline. A feeling that you are part of saving the Spiral, where you look forward to the next steps to see what happens.

The first arc was beautifully written. Each world had a progression that made you want more.

The second arc is haphazard, the storyline frequently gets lost (if you remember it at all). Mob after mob, collection after collection, dungeon after dungeon. Where's the fun stuff in between? Where's the immersion into the storyline?

People use Waterworks gear through Azteca because there really isn't anything out there to craft, or in the Bazaar, or as a drop. As you level up, the gear gets worse.

This game is suppose to be about fun, relaxation, and a magical experience, not about strategy, difficulty, or constantly changing gear. Sure, the levels progress in difficulty, however, it doesn't need to be ramped up to the point where the casual gamers leave out of frustration.

If some people don't get frustrated ...... good for them. However, I would suggest taking off the blinders and look around and consider other players. Their voices need to be heard, too. Young and old, people who work, those with disabilities, etc. Losing (not loosing) battles isn't a big deal once in a while, but when people lose battles over and over again, especially the same ones, that's when some of the frustration comes into play.
Your post is totally correct. Some of us who play this game truly do not have the mental ability to "step up our game" to meet the requirements needed to survive the second arc with out constant defeat.

I currently am playing the game with 2 other family members who have disabilities and I find it very difficult to get them past Avalon and I can not get them though Azteca even with my most faithful Life wizard so we have to quit there and restart new wizards if we want to continue playing. They joined the game because it actually was something they could play but in the second arc that changes into a game they can not figure out.

I have totally made peace with the fact that I joined the game during the 1st Arc and that is really where I belong. I get the most stress free game play out of the experience then if I force myself on, now making it a chore to complete.

I can only say what I joined the game for is not what it becomes and I just have to deal with it. What some look as a challange for me it's boring same ole, frustration, humiliation, defeat, aggravation - towel thrown in fun. When our little rag tag team can barely make it though Avalon it's useless to try to take on AZ.

Mary StarGem - retired Savior of the Spiral

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
391
ok so I recently read something in my game informer(biggest gaming magazine company in the world) and I think you guys would like to here it.

The Red Flags of Modern Gaming
now I wont type the entire thing as some of the parts of it don't relate to wizards 101 also I wont be typing the whole paragraph only the critical things in each paragraph(and no there arnt any positive things i'm skipping so you cant say I only told you the bad stuff).

Your Progress is Time-Gated
some developers arbitrary in hopes that you'll pay money to bypass them. why not throw down a couple nickles and dimes for instant gradification? while patient gamers may not mind the inconvenience there's no good design reason for regulating the players enjoyment in this way.
pet training, hatching, gardening, and crafting timers sound familier(this is a note from me not the magazine)?

You Need Friends to be Competitive.
adding friends should never be a requirement for success.

One Use Items Cost Money
selling one use items is a sign that they want you to not only pay for the game but keep paying for the game( considering wizards has subs it means they want you paying even more than your sub all the time).
a developer that is daring enough to sell temporary boost for real money is likely willing to balance the game in a way that requires said improvements.

Help Cost Money!!!!!!!(although I didn't need any with those solo only bosses)
in game help is not something that should be ransomed!

so ya thought you all should hear that and maybe a lot of this will sound very familier to you.

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
Voices aren't being heard. I've learned that Kensington park was shortened. Defeat and collect quests at CL and ZF are easier now. My myth guy went against young Morganthe and only used mammoth 3X when she did more when I first squared off with her earlier version. PvP is being overhauled. Feedback Friday always give an audience to everyones wishes. Updates are unending. Seriously, I think some players here needs to go down from their high horses (maybe w/ blinders) and give credit where credit is due. Sadly, the most vocal posters here can only see a black dot on a white paper.

que said:
"The second arc is haphazard, the storyline frequently gets lost (if you remember it at all). Mob after mob, collection after collection, dungeon after dungeon. Where's the fun stuff in between? Where's the immersion into the storyline?"

Haphazard? Isnt stopping Morganthe the one true clear aim? Immersion in the storyline? the story isn't finish yet. It took us 6 worlds to finish Malistaire's story (7 w/ WT). We only have 4 in the 2nd arc now. Poorly written? AV owns a brilliant Arthurian-based time traveling twist with funny easter eggs to boot. Azteca slapped our faces with an ending unique even by W101 standards. Pacal's last words was epic. Questions hang like how much stronger Morganthe can get? How did Undying Malistaire came to be?

"This game is suppose to be about fun, relaxation, and a magical experience, not about strategy, difficulty, or constantly changing gear. "

An easy, fun, relaxing & magical game that shouldn't involve too much thinking if possible none at all, that's interesting. I think its safer to say that W101 just can't please everyone. Besides discovering that these forums generally reeks of negativity, I also learned that nitpicking is such a petty petty thing, maybe its where all this frustration is coming from?. Anyway, I think im done speaking my mind.

Adherent
Jul 03, 2010
2634
gweedoboy on May 20, 2013 wrote:
ok so I recently read something in my game informer(biggest gaming magazine company in the world) and I think you guys would like to here it.

The Red Flags of Modern Gaming
now I wont type the entire thing as some of the parts of it don't relate to wizards 101 also I wont be typing the whole paragraph only the critical things in each paragraph(and no there arnt any positive things i'm skipping so you cant say I only told you the bad stuff).

Your Progress is Time-Gated
some developers arbitrary in hopes that you'll pay money to bypass them. why not throw down a couple nickles and dimes for instant gradification? while patient gamers may not mind the inconvenience there's no good design reason for regulating the players enjoyment in this way.
pet training, hatching, gardening, and crafting timers sound familier(this is a note from me not the magazine)?

You Need Friends to be Competitive.
adding friends should never be a requirement for success.

One Use Items Cost Money
selling one use items is a sign that they want you to not only pay for the game but keep paying for the game( considering wizards has subs it means they want you paying even more than your sub all the time).
a developer that is daring enough to sell temporary boost for real money is likely willing to balance the game in a way that requires said improvements.

Help Cost Money!!!!!!!(although I didn't need any with those solo only bosses)
in game help is not something that should be ransomed!

so ya thought you all should hear that and maybe a lot of this will sound very familier to you.
I think it's possible that KI wants to "hook the kids" that beg the adults for crowns and get them now and then, in hopes that the parent(s)/adult gets into the game "to help the kids" - the kids leave by mid Mooshu and more money is to be had because they now have the person with the wallet? This cuts out that middle man.

Clearly the second arc is not made for most kids, all but 1 left my friends list by Celestia and now has been long gone for 2 yrs. If not - then who is this game for? Granted our kids did start the game younger then most do but they did leave when game play got to be annoying for them, a bit lonely and now being 3 yrs older still really don't have interest enough to returm.

KI really wants to please those who really can't play games and those who do. Those who are gamers are happy with the game becoming more difficult and I believe they are used to paying to play from the last games they have played, those who aren't real gamers aren't happy that they really can't finish the game.

Tell me what made you start to play and then continue to play Wizard101? Was it the fact that eventually you would leave all your friends in the dust and conquer the last work solo?

Either way I think you were able to find what does describe what is going on with KI. Clearly the upper worlds are worth the wile because people will pay to play on even it's only a small part of their member base it must be profitable enough for KI to continue this way.

Hero
Jul 30, 2012
771
Sarahnimo Said:

"[second arc story line]... Haphazard? Isnt stopping Morganthe the one true clear aim? Immersion in the storyline? the story isn't finish yet."

No, not really. I don't actually remember Celestia's overall story line. Zafaria was about rescuing a bunch of students. Avalon was about helping out that king. Azteca was clearly about Morganthe.

In Celestia, Zafaria and Avalon the arc-nemesis ended up being Morganth at the end, but I don't recall anything about her when I entered these worlds, or travelling through the bulk of the quests. Honestly I don't remember the Celestia story at all... if there even was one. All I remember is being told to battle bad guys over and over. In Zafaria I remember being sent on the most ridiculous and pointless quests imaginable.... and told to defeat bad guys over and over and over. Avalon had an overal story and quest requests that I understood and made sense to me.

As mentioned on other threads quests get really chopped up with the repeated do-not-collect quests where you forget the underlying purpose of what you are trying to achieve. Combined with sidequest topics mixed in with main quest topics offered by NPCs, and the main quest line constantly getting dropped makes it really hard to follow and understand.

Conclusion:
1. Is stopping Morganthe the one true clear aim? Absolutely not for a first-time player that hasn't read spoilers.

2. Player immersion in story line? Very little. Story is too simple, basic and choppy, seperated by gigantic gaps of time. And I fell no emotional connection towards any NPCs.

~ RottenHeart

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
@ Rottenheart
To stretch a villains story, deal with their aftermath and then ride off to face them. Telling a story that will cater to an unusual expansive age bracket is herculean. Unlike a book that you can leave and go back to after shopping or a weeks vacation, you still need to beat that boss that you loathe so much in order to progress. Being stuck makes this type of book prone to be shelved and forgotten. Both arcs are linear, but the 1st one have the advantage of being easy & not burdening players with equipping decent pets, gardening, crafting, etc. and so players can hold on to Malistaire's goatee and relish his story. The 2nd arc bears the brunt of facing the ire of patrons with its storyline because its where players tend to struggle.

"No, not really. I don't actually remember Celestia's overall story line. Zafaria was about rescuing a bunch of students. Avalon was about helping out that king. Azteca was clearly about Morganthe. "

The only way I can think of is Morganthe's footsteps have to be untraceable at CL to keep us guessing. As to ZF and AV, if you want to put it that way, well then yes it was about students and the King. But all those abductions still pointed to Morganthe and I sure felt her younger self's mammoths at Avalon. To me, It is going to be a bore to always have Morganthes face staring right back at you just so the writers can remind us "Hey, I am the story!" Maybe throwing in some sharks, elephants, zebras and famotis isn't bad after all. And breathing life to all those characters is not an easy feat.

This is why I cant see difficulty not affecting this "Magic" everyone here is talking about. Immersion-wise, it will be very choppy to a struggling player. To an advance RPG player like us (I finished FF7-12, Diablo 1 & 2, TES: Oblivion & Skyrim, etc.) , It will be very little and simple. Not being connected to any NPC's is "your" experience alone. Pacal was almost Yoda-ish for me.

Survivor
Feb 19, 2010
31
personally I love the game and always have the additions over the years have kept interesting but i do admit that i find disapointing i have not been able too reach the level cap but everybody has their own oppinion

Survivor
Mar 05, 2011
40
You dont need a good pet, you dont need a mastery amulet (I have none), and you dont need henchmen. Just play with friends, craft gear, or figure out new strategies. Its not that hard people! This wouldnt be nearly as fun without the challenge (I agree that collect quests are bad though)

Wolf Nightcaller 1st age balance warlord
Wolf Nightcaller 1st age myth commander
Talon Spirit finder 1st age life captain
Wolf Skull shield 1st age fire knight
Talon Skullshield 2nd age death commander

Hero
Jul 30, 2012
771
Sarahnimo, I appreciate you thoughts however:

"The 2nd arc bears the brunt of facing the ire of patrons with its storyline because its where players tend to struggle.... Immersion-wise, it will be very choppy to a struggling player."

I disagree with the premise that players have these thoughts because the game was tough and they had to struggle. I think you are missing the points of the OP and many of the other players who have posted.

I defintely did not struggle through the 2nd arc worlds. I don't think most of the players posting on this thread did either. Some dungeons were tough (Xibalba!), but that hardly equates to struggling through 4 entire worlds. The bulk of my time was spent doing repetitive battles, or helping others. Many of us soloed vast areas or entire worlds. We got help when we had to. We presented feedback on the forums.

Whether players struggle or not is irrelevent to story comprehension and overall game immersion. Many games are incredibly difficult and present a great story and emmersive environment. Wizard101 is a great game with amazing features. But awesome NPC character development and story-telling is not its strength.

Happy Wizarding!

Survivor
May 08, 2010
25
I agree with all if this and there is a solution . KI needs to come out with a new launcher for the old 2008-2009 game experience.....

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
Rottenheart said:

"Whether players struggle or not is irrelevant to story comprehension and overall game immersion."

So if you can't advance in the game, you should still be able to comprehend the storyline without even having the chance to read the dialogues or traveling to the next world? Now thats what I call "real" magic. What is there to immerse yourself with when you are wallowing on the same spot you left yesterday or a month ago?

"I defintely did not struggle through the 2nd arc worlds. I don't think most of the players posting on this thread did either. Some dungeons were tough (Xibalba!), but that hardly equates to struggling through 4 entire worlds. The bulk of my time was spent doing repetitive battles, or helping others. Many of us soloed vast areas or entire worlds. We got help when we had to. We presented feedback on the forums."

Are we blaming repetetiveness or did not collect quests as reasons for failing to follow this, In your own words, "too simple & basic" storyline? You want nothing too simple or basic and yet you see a red flag when you get derailed or gets "chopped" by side quests.

"Many games are incredibly difficult and present a great story and (i)mmersive environment. Wizard101 is a great game with amazing features. But awesome NPC character development and story-telling is not its strength."

As an avid RPG gamer, I agree with you W101%. But I do know when and what not to expect from a game that has you battling three ninja pigs doing a totem pole stance to deliver a complex, mystery-riddled, lore-packed, tolkienesque story. Not when it aims to entice kids to beg their parents to buy memberships or hoard packs. No one is forcing you to like the story. You are not even the right audience for it. I do know there are gamers who are itching to get even with Morganthe for AZ's demise.There's a 3rd arc btw, more chance to get needlessly frustrated to a $60 a year game.

Happy Wizarding to you to!, I know I am.

Hero
Jul 30, 2012
771
Sarahnimo,

Struggling and difficulties have nothing to do with story-line comprehension. The story doesn't unfold during battles. You can spend all day trying to defeat a boss. A tough boss doesn't mean a player fails to understand what what the npc's are saying. Obviously you must progress in the game to get the story to unfold.

What does confuse a story regardless of how basic or simple it may be, is when it gets muddled with other stories, unrelated info, or lost altogether. Currently when speaking with npc's there is nothing that differentiates one topic from another. Trying to follow a single quest line (main quest or otherwise) is challenging when npc's have 4 unrelated discussion topics to choose from. You can easily get knocked off your intended quest and never know. Combine this with layered subquests that take a player on trivial run-arounds.... that can last for days or weeks.

I do agree that difficulty factors in. The 2nd arc was made more challenging, probably to appeal to a more mature audience. Strategy and skill becomes essential. However they kept the funny-cute game style of the first arc. This combination is a clash. Mixing fairy-tale cartoons with mature strategy & skill gaming. Its like turning Smurfs into an elite commando force. The magic will disappear when Papa Smurf leads an invasion into surrounding territory and Smurfette starts firing an 80 calibure machine gun at the forest fairies. It might be hilareous to watch, but not very mother-goose magical.

Its defintely a challenge to maintain innocent child-like magic in entertainment geared towards a mature audience.

~ RottenHeart

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2179
Monsoon Jo on May 24, 2013 wrote:
Rottenheart said:

"Whether players struggle or not is irrelevant to story comprehension and overall game immersion."

So if you can't advance in the game, you should still be able to comprehend the storyline without even having the chance to read the dialogues or traveling to the next world? Now thats what I call "real" magic. What is there to immerse yourself with when you are wallowing on the same spot you left yesterday or a month ago?

"I defintely did not struggle through the 2nd arc worlds. I don't think most of the players posting on this thread did either. Some dungeons were tough (Xibalba!), but that hardly equates to struggling through 4 entire worlds. The bulk of my time was spent doing repetitive battles, or helping others. Many of us soloed vast areas or entire worlds. We got help when we had to. We presented feedback on the forums."

Are we blaming repetetiveness or did not collect quests as reasons for failing to follow this, In your own words, "too simple & basic" storyline? You want nothing too simple or basic and yet you see a red flag when you get derailed or gets "chopped" by side quests.

"Many games are incredibly difficult and present a great story and (i)mmersive environment. Wizard101 is a great game with amazing features. But awesome NPC character development and story-telling is not its strength."

As an avid RPG gamer, I agree with you W101%. But I do know when and what not to expect from a game that has you battling three ninja pigs doing a totem pole stance to deliver a complex, mystery-riddled, lore-packed, tolkienesque story. Not when it aims to entice kids to beg their parents to buy memberships or hoard packs. No one is forcing you to like the story. You are not even the right audience for it. I do know there are gamers who are itching to get even with Morganthe for AZ's demise.There's a 3rd arc btw, more chance to get needlessly frustrated to a $60 a year game.

Happy Wizarding to you to!, I know I am.
You just admitted you are an avid RPG gamer. Has it not occured to you that there are a very large number of players who are not and this is the one game that has drawn millions just for that reason.

The fact that the story line is not keeping players interested or they are struggling in the second arc should have sent up red flags from the beginning. The second arc storyline is so chopped up that it is losing a lot of players. The magic is also lost just for that reason. It is not keeping players immersed in the game so many are leaving or playing the first arc only.

Yes, the game did entice a lot of kids to play and beg their parents to buy memberships and packs. Now you will find a lot of parents that may or not be playing saying they wasted money paying for a year at a time and their kids are no longer playing. The story line and difficulty along with the magic and fun lost them and is losing more everyday.

The constant "Collects, did not collect" is another factor. Why is this? Look to see if that creature has a badge/s waiting for you to complete after you have fought a few of them. If it does, then those collects have not been nerfed. Fighting 10 or more battles to collect 4 or less items is really frustrating for younger players and becoming increasingly so for others. I have fought as many as 14 battles in Av just to get a bit of information. I used to enjoy completing badges, but I am to the point now, I don't care if I do or not. It is no longer fun. Just plain and simple. I have done 2 quests in the Second arc since early March. I thought that taking a break from it might be what I needed but now, I don't think so. The magic, the fun and the storyline are only part of the problem. The drops and quest rewards are next on the list. They just are not worth fighting for anymore.

Yes, there is another arc and probably even another according to Professor Greyrose's comment in another thread, but if the last world in this arc and the next arc can be guessed at by what we are seeing in Az, then I can see even more players leaving. All that will be left will be those "AVID RPG" players that aren't specifically interested in the storyline but only want to beat it no matter how difficult or whether the fun and magic are there or not. Are there enough of those players to keep the revenue flowing so KI can pay their bills?