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The irony of being the game's "tank"

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
As I wander around the streets of the spiral I constantly hear ice referred to as the "tank" of the game. Ironically, in the game and on the forums, other schools seem to be upset when an ice does any real damage. Think about that for a second. They don't call us the game's "barricade", they call us the game's "tank". What kind of tank never does any damage? Simply because a school has an emphasis (ice's being defense) doesn't mean that they are cast in a role. My role in the game is to win. My strategy, as an ice, is to do that through defensive play.

For a "defensive" school, we really don't have that many defensive spells. We get "Volcanic Shield", "Tower Shield", "Ice Armor", and now "Legion Shield" and "Frozen Armor". Every school gets a "twin shield" so nothing special about that. Every school can (and often does) learn tower shield so nothing special there either. Ice armor is useless by the time you get it for myriad reasons I'm not going into here. Legion shield is unique, and so is frozen armor. Frozen armor is still largely useless except in certain instances... but I'll give ice that spell anyway.

So, for 3 unique spells (2 of which that have any value) out of all the spells we are given, and ice is supposed to be THE defensive school? If we are to look at it that way, balance is WAY more defensive with spirit and elemental shields, weakness, black mantle, helping hands, spirit and elemental diffuse, and availing hands. Of those, only weakness is trainable. Therefore, it can't be your spell selection. It must be the gear. High health and global resistance was ice's "stock in trade", but with the release of waterworks... that's gone now. Everyone has global resistance, and in amounts rivaling ice.

As an example, a good friend of mine has her storm wizard decked out with +90% damage boost, +22% accuracy, +40% global resist, 151 storm critical rating, and 69 (ish) critical block rating. Yes, she used a specially hatched pet (+15% global resist) to get that resistance but think for just a second... Isn't storm supposed to deal "high damage at the expense of accuracy"? Aren't they supposed to deal high damage quickly because they can't last long? She is 3% more accurate than my ice unless I sacrifice some damage boost, resistance, and a little health and then she is still 1% more accurate. And the fact that she can obtain a 40% global resist rating... Are you kidding me? When the BEST damage boost rating my ice can get (with quite a few sacrifices and special pets) cannot even hit 50% is it any wonder that ice wizards are depressed about this turn of events?

For the record, I still firmly believe that the schools are largely balanced. I do think that KI made a LOT of fixes and I was pleased to see that they finally corrected an anomaly with ice colossus (adding extra base damage). I'm also very pleased to see that stun is useful in PvE again. I'm also glad that they listened (a little) to feedback about frozen armor and at least removed the "self only" restriction so that the spell could have marginal utility.

What can I say? My first wizard, and the one that the game picked for my personality (very accurately I might add) is ice. Despite having lots of wizards, I will always be an ice. It is depressing that the "defense" class has 3 unique defensive spells, one of which is completely useless and another of which is useless "to me". Since it is obvious that defensive focus was through gear stats and since they have given that to everyone, shouldn't KI be adding some compensating "unique" factor to ice gear such as stun block percentage, higher critical block, or both?

I think I'm rambling now, so I'm just going to go ahead and close out this post... but I do hope that people think a bit about what I've said. I'm really sick of hearing the "you're a tank, you're not supposed to do real damage" style arguments.

Delver
Mar 13, 2011
278
gtarhannon wrote:

I think I'm rambling now, so I'm just going to go ahead and close out this post... but I do hope that people think a bit about what I've said. I'm really sick of hearing the "you're a tank, you're not supposed to do real damage" style arguments.


Then tell them that you are what you are. A battle tank.

That is what they are normally called in MMORPGs, those damage absorbers that can dish out damage as well.

Play EverQuest for a few or 10 years and everything will come into perspective.

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2657
Ice isn't all defensive. Hurling all those taunts at enemies is offensive to me!


Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
I definitely agree with you it really is ashamed that this has just become a second nature to people. When all reality the numbers would show us correct and i know that i grabbed my calculator to figure a lot of numbers( Ashamed that the only place i really used my advanced math classes is on a video game) but i do really passionately believe that ice does have a lot of stuff that needs to be worked out. And i always love seeing how much people actually do bring out numbers and stuff you can prove to be fact but still nothing has happened.

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
your Storm friend with global resist, what is their max health vs your max health and global resist? if their max is like 2400, with 40% global resist, they need to take 4000 points of damage to be killed. if your ice has 3800 health and 50% resist, someone needs to do 7600 damage to kill you. that's significant. now, i don't pvp, so i don't care, but the universal resist is a factor of your total health. i'm glad ice can do some damage on our side, however, so i just wanted to give the numbers so people don't complain about everyone else getting universal resist now. -eli and crew

Champion
Feb 14, 2010
435
Ya, Ice should have gotten a better boost to universal defense and higher health at level 60, and higher accuracy for that matter...
It has been too long since I leveled my ice to remember how tough it was before getting the ice blade.
I still think Ice is good and most times I don't have to use shields at all. My Ice can hit pretty hard with Gargantuan cards, my level 56 crafted hat Blade (+45) and the Ice blade (+40), and other blades; so eventually the damage from Ice is good. I love the new Ice Armor - sweet that you can use it on others. I usually try to play the role of a tank when I am Ice but at Legendary level it is not always a needed role in groups since everyone has gotten so strong.

And yes, Storm made out great with highest damage percentage, highest criticals and accuracy up to 100%. I love playing my Storm as he usually just smashes everything in sight. Blade, Blade, Gargantuan, Tempest or LORD - dead...

Astrologist
Aug 13, 2009
1087
Punching them with a Snow Angel, then dishing a Legion Shield and a Tower Shield, with Ice Armor, and a Taunt, and you've got yourself a pile of tank coming back, a Frost Giant.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
etherchaos wrote:
your Storm friend with global resist, what is their max health vs your max health and global resist? if their max is like 2400, with 40% global resist, they need to take 4000 points of damage to be killed. if your ice has 3800 health and 50% resist, someone needs to do 7600 damage to kill you. that's significant. now, i don't pvp, so i don't care, but the universal resist is a factor of your total health. i'm glad ice can do some damage on our side, however, so i just wanted to give the numbers so people don't complain about everyone else getting universal resist now. -eli and crew


Hey etherchaos. I can't help but feel you are missing the point of my post. I thought I was clear that I don't think things are unbalanced. I understand that there is a huge difference in the amount of damage to be done to different schools. This isn't a math issue for me nor was it intended to single out just storm. Our truly useful "special" defensive spells are now tower shield (which everyone seems to have trained) and now legion shield. Ice armor is useless and Frozen armor is kind of useful. The point is that ice has generally had very little going for it other than high health and global resist.

We still have high health. Yay. Oh, and we taunt a lot. Yay again. Global resist was the one nearly exclusive thing that was really cool about ice. Other schools could still get it (in the arena or through crowns) but they had to give stuff up for it. I was fine with that. That's not the case anymore. And its not even like we CAN swap out gear for a different strategy. No matter what we do, we cannot get a very big damage boost. Ever. I've never figured out how to even get to 50%. Neither can we get very much accuracy, unless we give up all or almost all of our resistance. Well... I suppose there is a possible pet option, but lets face it... given that we have the worst stats of any class with the exception of health and resistance, why on earth would we waste 2 talents to get real accuracy?

Ice wizards are troopers. We always persevere so I'm sure we'll be fine and work with it. However, its still disappointing. What is truly cool and fun about playing ice vs any other school now? Um, nothing really. We're not necessary in a group anymore (because everyone gets global resist without sacrificing anything they're used to for their school), and we don't have any really useful spells that make anyone really want us to join the group. Don't get me wrong, its still functional... but why bother?

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
All global resistance is, essentially, is a health increase. but the higher the starting health, the higher the health increase is. ice is still at the very top of the list. and i don't know how you feel that nobody needs an ice wizard because everyone gets global resist. 2 of the Best spells in the game are snow angel and steal ward- both ice exclusives. steal ward others can get, but it's untrainable, at least. in any case, i welcome ice wizards in my group anytime! -eli and crew

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
etherchaos wrote:
All global resistance is, essentially, is a health increase. but the higher the starting health, the higher the health increase is. ice is still at the very top of the list. and i don't know how you feel that nobody needs an ice wizard because everyone gets global resist. 2 of the Best spells in the game are snow angel and steal ward- both ice exclusives. steal ward others can get, but it's untrainable, at least. in any case, i welcome ice wizards in my group anytime! -eli and crew


I would have to disagree. Steal ward is not that common of a spell anymore because all ice's spells are over times. Consider life now has a spell that can get rid of our greastest spell "your supposedly best spell in the game" by casting triage which costs no pips or anything? And our single attack spells are just in efficient granted collosus isnt that bad but in terms of more than one enemy its not what you want. I can see people putting ice in their group so they dont get attacked themselves and just have the ice take all the damage.. Its just a lot of ice dont like being seen as like that.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
etherchaos wrote:
All global resistance is, essentially, is a health increase. but the higher the starting health, the higher the health increase is. ice is still at the very top of the list.


True, except that it also translates into an effective healing boost as well because every point healed has to be hit for more than a point to remove it again. This is a much complained about attribute of global resist.

etherchaos wrote:
i don't know how you feel that nobody needs an ice wizard because everyone gets global resist. 2 of the Best spells in the game are snow angel and steal ward- both ice exclusives.


The only real reason people needed an ice in a group in the first place was so that they could draw fire so that other schools had enough time to prep for big damage. That function isn't necessary now. Even storm can take a couple big unshielded hits now. I'm not saying that it isn't still handy in the absence of other options, but even I find myself thinking... this would go much quicker if I brought any of my other wizards. As to the two spells you mentioned...

Snow Angel, in and of itself, is not a spell that any other school wants. I does less total damage than Fire Dragon (at the cost of an extra pip) and it taunts. It looks impressive with gargantuan on it, or when its cast with 4 blades, but any other comparable school spell will look more impressive... I guarantee you. Steal ward, on the other hand, isn't something most people care about. Its 2 pips and you rarely want the shield you steal. However, everyone can easily obtain pierce treasure cards or an amulet that for 0 pips will accomplish the same thing, or they can use shatter which for 1 pip more than steal ward will accomplish far more. Additionally, due to the attributes of earthquake, people are far more likely to have a myth mastery amulet than an ice mastery amulet thereby letting them cast shatter using power pips. And hey, if you're storm, you can only fizzle on storm or fire spells... so that's an added bonus.

This is the essence of what I'm saying... What in the ice repertoire does any other school covet vs a similar spell in another school? The answer of course, is nothing but tower shield... and they can train that. I'm not saying that ice isn't a useful or functional school. I'm not whining that KI is unfair to ice, or that it is somehow unbalanced. I am lamenting that there is nothing cool about ice anymore. Yes... its an issue of disappointment. Perhaps I can explain it a bit better this way...

When I started the game, almost a year ago, I couldn't go anywhere in the spiral or read forums where I didn't see comments about how weak ice was. That was fine, people will be people. Celestia came along and I first see Snow Angel. I have yet to meet an ice wizard that was pleased with the spell. It taunts. Seriously? Taunts? Despite that, we trudged on and were pleased to find out that we could at least get high global resistance so we can live long enough to successfully cast Snow Angel. Let's face it... we needed something to fight high ice resistance enemies since they spam tower shields. The new gargantuan made snow angel useful enough and we capitalized on our blade stacking and resistance to eventually make snow angel the topic of many "overpowered" threads here in the forum.

It was annoying, to say the least, to suddenly go from "weak" to "way overpowered". But moving on... Wintertusk comes out. We get new spells. Legion shield is cool. It doesn't help much, but it does take the edge off and its cool. Then there's frozen armor. Let's take the one spell no ice wizard uses, increase it a bit, make them wait till they're almost legendary and give it to them then. In KI's defense, they at least removed the "self-only" clause... However, it still sucks. At least it will be useful in a group because we're still the only school with global resist right? Oh... we're not? Oh... I guess I'd better go back to filling my deck with healing spells. *sigh* Being that I solo a lot, I will say that I have finally found a use for it in shielding my minion so that he can last long enough to be of real value in breaking shields and whittling down enemies... unless of course I'm fighting myth.

To sum up... Everyone is heavily armored now. Its just that the game's "tank" doesn't have a main cannon. Ironic right? I suppose its for the best... based on past experience, even if it took 6 rounds to set up for a big hit, we'd still be "overpowered".

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
If you feel unwanted as an ice wizard, i'm sorry. i feel even more unwanted as a myth wizard. i have gone into waterworks 5 times and die in the first 2 turns of the first battle. i don't even bother asking for help with it, cause who wants to quest with a person that they just have to keep alive? i have about 2800 health with like 5% resist from celestia and wintertusk crafted gear. that's why it kind of frustrates me when people complain about other schools getting universal resist. some of us desperately need it! ah well, good luck to you. -elijah darkthorn, not-legendary-enough conjurer

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
etherchaos wrote:
If you feel unwanted as an ice wizard, i'm sorry. i feel even more unwanted as a myth wizard. i have gone into waterworks 5 times and die in the first 2 turns of the first battle. i don't even bother asking for help with it, cause who wants to quest with a person that they just have to keep alive? i have about 2800 health with like 5% resist from celestia and wintertusk crafted gear. that's why it kind of frustrates me when people complain about other schools getting universal resist. some of us desperately need it! ah well, good luck to you. -elijah darkthorn, not-legendary-enough conjurer


Hey Elijah. I personally don't feel unwanted on any of my wizards. I am by no means the "best" player, but I'm decent and get a lot of requests for assistance. I just feel that my other wizards have more cool and interesting things going for them. As to the waterworks... I and many others would love to have a myth along due to their wide variety of strategic spells. I personally have not had a big issue with keeping my myth alive. If you would like to start a thread on it, I'm sure you could get a lot of help here on design decisions. If you need help in waterworks, I'd be glad to set up a time to assist.

Explorer
Mar 18, 2009
84
etherchaos wrote:
If you feel unwanted as an ice wizard, i'm sorry. i feel even more unwanted as a myth wizard. i have gone into waterworks 5 times and die in the first 2 turns of the first battle. i don't even bother asking for help with it, cause who wants to quest with a person that they just have to keep alive? i have about 2800 health with like 5% resist from celestia and wintertusk crafted gear. that's why it kind of frustrates me when people complain about other schools getting universal resist. some of us desperately need it! ah well, good luck to you. -elijah darkthorn, not-legendary-enough conjurer


Try being Death some time.......... People see my Death Legend and assume I'm ok. Guess what? Even a Legend can have problems.. Just last night I was on as my Death Legend and ended up in a battle I didn't need to be in (very low mana and health), was dying and asked several people (who happened to be Legends) for help. I was told "Death self heals. take care of yourself, noob." Yeah I know death self heals, but it doesn't help if you don't have mana to cast...

Overall, it should not matter what school you are. Legends have a responsibility to help and to teach. Once you get that high in the game there is NO REASON for people to be so selfish and self absorbed.

Side note..If you only have a 5% resist from CL/WT crafted gear then I'm sorry, but you haven't made the strongest gear. I am in the process of making WT gear for 3 of my characters. When I am finished they will have resists that vary from 15 to 25% across the board.. with Critcal of over 100 in their respective schools (Death, Life, and Balance) and pretty high block.

Name's Moira Stormgiver.. if you need help finding crafting stuff let me know... I'm glad to help.


Survivor
Apr 02, 2011
6
dragonpfyre219 wrote:


Overall, it should not matter what school you are. Legends have a responsibility to help and to teach. Once you get that high in the game there is NO REASON for people to be so selfish and self absorbed.


Here here! I get so tired of people who leveled up thinking they are better than anyone else! you see it more and more often, someone getting too big for their britches because they hit level sixty,

I've found it doesn't MATTER what class you choose, being a tank is more a mindset, I'm Storm and Life and I tank all the time

A. use a mass damage spell like tempest, B, spend the next few turns healing and defending, Ie Sprite, Absorb shield ect. C, while your friends are attacking, wait until they draw its attention again, hit it again with a massive damage spell,

Even if your not aiming to kill it will draw its fire,

My point is that any class you use you have advantages and disadvantages, thats the point of secondary schools, Ice can be one of the best support classes and depending on what your second class is with it I've seen people use it as one of the most adaptable classes, I agree it doesn't hit for alot compared to a few but if you live long enough to cast twice as many spells you can't tell me you are unable to get a Stormzilla or something off to help you do some damage

Delver
Aug 12, 2009
260
I should start farming for a life mastery amulet as an Ice/Life with one of those should be darn near unkillable. It would be interesting to try.


Devin Darksong – lvl 60 Death
Digby Darksong – lvl 60 Life
Duncan Darksong –lvl 60 balance
Dylan Darksong –lvl 60 Storm
Dustan Darksong –lvl 60 Myth
Dolan Darksong –lvl 60 Ice

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
KazeShiniRyu wrote:
My point is that any class you use you have advantages and disadvantages, thats the point of secondary schools, Ice can be one of the best support classes and depending on what your second class is with it I've seen people use it as one of the most adaptable classes, I agree it doesn't hit for alot compared to a few but if you live long enough to cast twice as many spells you can't tell me you are unable to get a Stormzilla or something off to help you do some damage


Your post makes me feel I need to be very, very clear. I am specifically talking about the state of the schools as of waterworks gear. With that gear, there would be no point in an ice getting off a stormzilla. the rather meager ice boost is still enough to make it more worthwhile to cast an ice spell than a storm spell. In keeping with the point of the thread, I will also say that at least in PvE, everyone can "survive long enough now" regardless of whom they're fighting. Sure, an ice can take more damage, but the "living long enough" is the challenge, even with an ice. The often 'liberal' activation of critical more than makes up ice resistance. Take a wizard vs wizard example using only (meaning no athame, ring, amulet, or pet) waterworks gear...

storm damage against an ice (no critical):

(1+.67) x (1-.34) = effective multiplier of 1.1022 or boost of 10.22%

storm damage against an ice (with critical):

(1+.67) x (1+1) x (1-.34) = effective multiplier of 2.2044 or boost of 120.44%

conversely:

ice damage against a storm (no critical):

(1+.34) x (1-.26) = effective multiplier of .9916 or resist of .84%

ice damage against a storm (with critical):

(1+.34) x (1+1) x (1-.26) = effective multiplier of 1.9832 or boost of 98.32%

Blades compound the issue. Sure, ice can shield, but DoTs quickly strip those away. Moving into the PvP arena where there is pierce, earthquake, and shatter, ice's "resist and health" advantage fades very, very quickly compared to their ability to do damage. You know... I started this thread under the auspices of "everything being equal mathematically" and I'm sure it still is in PvE... but I'm beginning to feel as though that may not be the case in PvP where 2 wizards of equal skill compete against one another. I may actually need to sit down and run some numbers...

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Moribund wrote:
I should start farming for a life mastery amulet as an Ice/Life with one of those should be darn near unkillable. It would be interesting to try.


Devin Darksong – lvl 60 Death
Digby Darksong – lvl 60 Life
Duncan Darksong –lvl 60 balance
Dylan Darksong –lvl 60 Storm
Dustan Darksong –lvl 60 Myth
Dolan Darksong –lvl 60 Ice


Maybe against another ice... but almost any other school could pretty quickly boost setup, then shatter and kill you... So much for that great frozen armor spell right?

Delver
Aug 12, 2009
260
gtarhannon wrote:
Moribund wrote:
I should start farming for a life mastery amulet as an Ice/Life with one of those should be darn near unkillable. It would be interesting to try.


Devin Darksong – lvl 60 Death
Digby Darksong – lvl 60 Life
Duncan Darksong –lvl 60 balance
Dylan Darksong –lvl 60 Storm
Dustan Darksong –lvl 60 Myth
Dolan Darksong –lvl 60 Ice


Maybe against another ice... but almost any other school could pretty quickly boost setup, then shatter and kill you... So much for that great frozen armor spell right?


I was thinking PvE. When it comes to PvP, "tower" strategies commonly fail and arn't really worth trying.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
While I may agree, that when they released Wintertusk, Ice got the short end of the stick, it does not mean Ice is defenseless or weak on the battlefield...

Now, yes, things change from 1v1 to 2v2 to 3v3 and then to 4v4...

However, when a person faces an opponent 1v1, I don't see Ice having too many problems.... Mathmatically speaking of course...

Now, Let me give you a few ideas... If you want even more resist than pre Wintertusk, simply keep your robe and get the new Hat and Boots...

That will increase your critical chance, although be short by 17, but if you say critical is not a factor, since Ice has the lowest critical hit points, maybe more resistance would be your style... Yes, you will lose about 200 health, but what is more important, health or resistance?

Now, Ice has many different choices when it comes to DOT spells, you can Ice Elf, Frost Bite, Wyvern Pet, or Snow Angel... Yes, there is a dilemna with the new life spell that removes DOT Damage, however, I must make this Point.

If you dual Blade, then cast say, Frostbite, and they do use the spell, they leave themself very open and very vulnerable to an attack by Collosus or Frost Giant!

Strategy is key to PvP, you have to think of scenarios and counters to everything... I don't see Ice as weak, not to any school.

As far as amulets go, they are open to any and everyone, best advice is, to expect the unexpected... I don't see the Myth Amulet or Life Amulet being as much of a problem as some let on... But then again, I think of things and make openings where a lot of people dont...

Just some tips, think about them...

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:
While I may agree, that when they released Wintertusk, Ice got the short end of the stick, it does not mean Ice is defenseless or weak on the battlefield...


I do appreciate the tips... however, I'm not having any issues playing Ice. I'm just terribly disappointed with the school. I have a lot of wizards, but I will always be an ice wizard and a solo one at that. I'm not sure why I keep hoping for something cool at this point...

Our damage has been and always will be in the toilet. Every decent ice wizard invests in sun spells and other damage enhancing tricks to come close to the damage every other school has. That's fine though... we have global resist and the knowledge that for another class to get it, they have to give something up or earn it with a pet. Oh wait... what's that now? Not anymore? Ok, so now we have to put up with terrible damage, terrible accuracy, and truly one of the worst selection of spells in the game and everyone will get global resistance as well?

Ice armor is useless... frozen armor is close to useless, and snow angel taunts. It has utility, but it taunts. When is that useful? Ever? When are we going to get something in our spell deck is truly cool? Let's review... Storm, awesome damage. Fire, DoTs and a myriad of useful utility spells. Balance, hard to block damage and tons of cool utility spells. Myth, very good damage, minions, and a shield bypassing monster. Life, healer extraordinaire and now DoT killer. Death, trap master and life stealer. Ice, well... you've got resistance and low damage moderate accuracy spells... plus a repertoire of spells that feel like like bad copies of "cool" spells in other schools.

It isn't that its a bad school. It isn't. Its just incredibly utilitarian and frankly has very little that sets it apart anymore. I think that legion shield was a good solid spell. No offense intended for KI, but if that is the most exciting thing coming to ice in the near future (and frankly for me it was), then you may as well plan to retire the school at this point.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
darthjt wrote:
While I may agree, that when they released Wintertusk, Ice got the short end of the stick, it does not mean Ice is defenseless or weak on the battlefield...

Now, yes, things change from 1v1 to 2v2 to 3v3 and then to 4v4...

However, when a person faces an opponent 1v1, I don't see Ice having too many problems.... Mathmatically speaking of course...

Now, Let me give you a few ideas... If you want even more resist than pre Wintertusk, simply keep your robe and get the new Hat and Boots...

That will increase your critical chance, although be short by 17, but if you say critical is not a factor, since Ice has the lowest critical hit points, maybe more resistance would be your style... Yes, you will lose about 200 health, but what is more important, health or resistance?

Now, Ice has many different choices when it comes to DOT spells, you can Ice Elf, Frost Bite, Wyvern Pet, or Snow Angel... Yes, there is a dilemna with the new life spell that removes DOT Damage, however, I must make this Point.

If you dual Blade, then cast say, Frostbite, and they do use the spell, they leave themself very open and very vulnerable to an attack by Collosus or Frost Giant!

Strategy is key to PvP, you have to think of scenarios and counters to everything... I don't see Ice as weak, not to any school.

As far as amulets go, they are open to any and everyone, best advice is, to expect the unexpected... I don't see the Myth Amulet or Life Amulet being as much of a problem as some let on... But then again, I think of things and make openings where a lot of people dont...

Just some tips, think about them...


Darth my position isn't that oh we are defenseless lets just do whatever the problem is this. We made sacrifices that others didnt have to. Its not like oh we are helpless lets just all complain the message boards. The idea is Ice made sacrifices to resistance and in it they gave us an up in our critical. However other schools just got universal resistance that they didnt have to sacrifice anything and some even got boosts without sacrificing and getting universal resistance, my opinion on spells is just showing that the game is making it way to easy for some schools while they are giving other schools a huge nerf and thats what i feel is happening to ice, everyone is getting buffed and we are getting nerfed, and people are trying to prove this with fact on the message boards but instead you have people that just think we are complaining and that we aren't strategizing but its mainly just fact we are stating in a system that isn't fair to ice

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
thorvon65 wrote:
Darth my position isn't that oh we are defenseless lets just do whatever the problem is this. We made sacrifices that others didnt have to. Its not like oh we are helpless lets just all complain the message boards. The idea is Ice made sacrifices to resistance and in it they gave us an up in our critical. However other schools just got universal resistance that they didnt have to sacrifice anything and some even got boosts without sacrificing and getting universal resistance, my opinion on spells is just showing that the game is making it way to easy for some schools while they are giving other schools a huge nerf and thats what i feel is happening to ice, everyone is getting buffed and we are getting nerfed, and people are trying to prove this with fact on the message boards but instead you have people that just think we are complaining and that we aren't strategizing but its mainly just fact we are stating in a system that isn't fair to ice


Hey Thorvon. Its not even quite that for me... sometimes they make mistakes with armor, it comes back around. Its just that quite literally... ice gives up almost everything in order to have high health and global resist. Our spells are far from thrilling and largely look like bad copies... Frost Giant = Storm Lord. Snow Angel=Fire Dragon. Freeze=Stun. Etc, etc, etc... We have steal ward... yay. Rarely do I ever want to actually steal the ward... I just want it gone in which case a 0 pip pierce is better. Then of course there is tower (that everyone trains) and legion shield. Whoopee! We're really rockin' now. We even gave up having truly "special" spells (unless you really want to count taunt) in order to have global resist and high health.

We are utilitarian... so if you have patience, ice is still an effective class. However, there is nothing cool about it, unless you want to count the spell graphics... but personally, as cool as I think Ice Wyvern looks, the damage is depressing. I don't think there is probably any point in me continuing to try to explain where I'm coming from on this... If people don't understand from all the posts I've made in this thread, then they probably won't. Its just disappointing to have such a bland spell set when everyone will eventually get the one thing that made it all worthwhile, thus cementing the overall blandness of the school.

Defender
May 12, 2009
103
kingurz wrote:
Ice isn't all defensive. Hurling all those taunts at enemies is offensive to me!


Taunts are really just supposed to make them get hit more because they have the most life. So you're really just emphasizing the "tank" name that helped start this.

Squire
Aug 04, 2009
554
gtarhannon wrote:
thorvon65 wrote:
Darth my position isn't that oh we are defenseless lets just do whatever the problem is this. We made sacrifices that others didnt have to. Its not like oh we are helpless lets just all complain the message boards. The idea is Ice made sacrifices to resistance and in it they gave us an up in our critical. However other schools just got universal resistance that they didnt have to sacrifice anything and some even got boosts without sacrificing and getting universal resistance, my opinion on spells is just showing that the game is making it way to easy for some schools while they are giving other schools a huge nerf and thats what i feel is happening to ice, everyone is getting buffed and we are getting nerfed, and people are trying to prove this with fact on the message boards but instead you have people that just think we are complaining and that we aren't strategizing but its mainly just fact we are stating in a system that isn't fair to ice


Hey Thorvon. Its not even quite that for me... sometimes they make mistakes with armor, it comes back around. Its just that quite literally... ice gives up almost everything in order to have high health and global resist. Our spells are far from thrilling and largely look like bad copies... Frost Giant = Storm Lord. Snow Angel=Fire Dragon. Freeze=Stun. Etc, etc, etc... We have steal ward... yay. Rarely do I ever want to actually steal the ward... I just want it gone in which case a 0 pip pierce is better. Then of course there is tower (that everyone trains) and legion shield. Whoopee! We're really rockin' now. We even gave up having truly "special" spells (unless you really want to count taunt) in order to have global resist and high health.

We are utilitarian... so if you have patience, ice is still an effective class. However, there is nothing cool about it, unless you want to count the spell graphics... but personally, as cool as I think Ice Wyvern looks, the damage is depressing. I don't think there is probably any point in me continuing to try to explain where I'm coming from on this... If people don't understand from all the posts I've made in this thread, then they probably won't. Its just disappointing to have such a bland spell set when everyone will eventually get the one thing that made it all worthwhile, thus cementing the overall blandness of the school.


Yea I completely agree with you, you know making my ice it just always made me you know mad that other schools didnt even have to put in half the effort i had to when leveling, or pvping or anyhting. Like really i remember fighting in the arena at level 38 and my best spell was wyvern lol and i would have to feint, ice trap, amulet ice trap, ice blade, elemental blade, elemental trap, and then balefrost, and my attack would do close to like 3k damage which was the only way i could win i would spend countless turns stealing wards. And you know a LIFE could just feint, life blade, life trap and centaur and that did 3k and that was a life the school that should have some of the same problems with attack or i think it should be less but it isn't. And then a storm not even needing to try to get a 3k triton on me and i was just like well maybe if i leveled and was patient maybe the game will make it bette for ice, and then you get your 48 spell 475 damage to all lol? I was like well i know i have a little more resistance and health maybe that can help and it just doesn't at all, people can say its a huge advantage it isn't at lol. I had like 3k some health fighting a storm with like 2k health his attacks will do 1200 damage mine does like 600 he will still kill me before hand(this is just an example don't going jumping on strategies and stuffplease) Snow angel is a little decent but like you said it is basically a spell in the shadows of others. I really just want more of an edge to my school i hate going into a fight and they have all these little cool tricks and things that will slow me down and i just shield and hit like really.