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OP Stats... Certain Gear Need a HUGE debuff.

AuthorMessage
Defender
Jan 25, 2009
173
Hey guys so I'm sure you've all been hearing the forum buzz about the many wizards that can't stand the stats of ice right now, due to the fact that they're able to get full immunity to fire and storm. Then there are other stories about storm's strength boost, fire's high accuracy, etc. How did this all start? Starting with Waterworks, KI has been making the gear way too high in stats. Lets look at the facts eh?

KI used to keep a constant rate in the stats of gear. For example, they'd implement something like "every 5 levels, we'll add 2 more resist points to gear, and 3 more strength points". This kept the gear advancing at gradual rate, which was balanced. But then, the Waterworks set comes in, and you've got a HUGE leap in power. This began the problem of imbalanced stats in gear. KI wasn't sticking to their constant rate formula, and instead decided to throw in super powerful stats to make players happy. Things only get worse with the crafted gear, which basically gave ice Immunity to fire and storm.

Whoa. Freeze.

Immunity?! As in, ice is simply invincible to fire and storm? As in, no matter how much strength boost fire or storm has, they're going to do 0 damage when they cast that spell? Just like that?! KI is handing out these stats like candy! We need some nerfs thrown in here and there, because this needs to stop now... Now I tell ya!!

What do you guys think?

Champion
Dec 01, 2011
495
KorekuEternal on Apr 6, 2013 wrote:
Hey guys so I'm sure you've all been hearing the forum buzz about the many wizards that can't stand the stats of ice right now, due to the fact that they're able to get full immunity to fire and storm. Then there are other stories about storm's strength boost, fire's high accuracy, etc. How did this all start? Starting with Waterworks, KI has been making the gear way too high in stats. Lets look at the facts eh?

KI used to keep a constant rate in the stats of gear. For example, they'd implement something like "every 5 levels, we'll add 2 more resist points to gear, and 3 more strength points". This kept the gear advancing at gradual rate, which was balanced. But then, the Waterworks set comes in, and you've got a HUGE leap in power. This began the problem of imbalanced stats in gear. KI wasn't sticking to their constant rate formula, and instead decided to throw in super powerful stats to make players happy. Things only get worse with the crafted gear, which basically gave ice Immunity to fire and storm.

Whoa. Freeze.

Immunity?! As in, ice is simply invincible to fire and storm? As in, no matter how much strength boost fire or storm has, they're going to do 0 damage when they cast that spell? Just like that?! KI is handing out these stats like candy! We need some nerfs thrown in here and there, because this needs to stop now... Now I tell ya!!

What do you guys think?
I dont think the Ice Gear should be nerfed. This is why there are Pierce Spells. Oh and Ice sacrifice LOTS of other stats. I think that it is perfect the way it is.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
I think that some people need to learn how to play, learn how to use converts/prisms, learn that it is not as easy as you think to just go and get immunity...

People whine and complain rather than strategize and try.

So, here is a question, do you even know why WaterWorks gear was made?

How different is waterworks gear from Celestia level 58 gear? Look at the differences in all schools...

Now, look at the power boosts vs resistance boosts of each school, then take critical and critical block into consideration. You have to factor in all parts of an equation, including health, power pip chance, accuracy, damage boost, everything.

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
KorekuEternal on Apr 6, 2013 wrote:
Hey guys so I'm sure you've all been hearing the forum buzz about the many wizards that can't stand the stats of ice right now, due to the fact that they're able to get full immunity to fire and storm. Then there are other stories about storm's strength boost, fire's high accuracy, etc. How did this all start? Starting with Waterworks, KI has been making the gear way too high in stats. Lets look at the facts eh?

KI used to keep a constant rate in the stats of gear. For example, they'd implement something like "every 5 levels, we'll add 2 more resist points to gear, and 3 more strength points". This kept the gear advancing at gradual rate, which was balanced. But then, the Waterworks set comes in, and you've got a HUGE leap in power. This began the problem of imbalanced stats in gear. KI wasn't sticking to their constant rate formula, and instead decided to throw in super powerful stats to make players happy. Things only get worse with the crafted gear, which basically gave ice Immunity to fire and storm.

Whoa. Freeze.

Immunity?! As in, ice is simply invincible to fire and storm? As in, no matter how much strength boost fire or storm has, they're going to do 0 damage when they cast that spell? Just like that?! KI is handing out these stats like candy! We need some nerfs thrown in here and there, because this needs to stop now... Now I tell ya!!

What do you guys think?
first of all ww gear has been out for quite a few years now and a lot of people depend on those over powered stats to make it through avalon and azteca. any nerf to ww gear would cause an angry mob without a doubt and i would be part of that anrgy mob. the reason? well it just so happenes that our gear is actually UNDERPOWERED in azteca. however does ice actually need immunity to 2 schools, probally not but thats pvps problem not ours. i agree ki had a steady increase in gear stats but that was the first arc where a steady increase worked, not now though as im sure you know that in the second arc the worlds are jumping in difficulty instead of the steady increase of difficulty so really if they kept going by there plus 3 damage boost and plus 1 resist thing then really we wouldnt have been even remotely ready for the horrors that would have been azteca.
what we really need is better gear not nerfed gear after all how is anyone supposed to do there 3vs1 spell quest with 20 universal resist and like 40 damage boost, even with crown henchmen you would most likely fail every time. what you want obviously points out that you are a complete hard core player, well guess what man you can make your own challenge by equiping lower level gear.

Survivor
Jan 15, 2009
17
Waterworks is NOT the reason for the op stats of ice.
If you look and any ice with immunity he will not be wearing works gear. He'll be using avalon crafted gear.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1305
Waterworks gear gives everyone universal stats, which was and is sorely needed.

Crafted gear which gives Ice immunity to fire and storm? Please list that gear, as I have yet to find any crafted gear that gives such stats --- insert sarcasm here ---.

Anyone has the opportunity to go for immunity to fire and storm. However, if it is immunity someone wants, then it is not a smart move. Ever check out the stats of someone with this immunity? Not good.

Ice has higher health and good resist. However, they have low damage boosts compared to other schools, low base spell damage, low accuracy and boosts, lower critical, etc etc, compared to almost every other school.

In PvE, who cares what other schools have? Of course, I'm sure you're talking about PvP, which is where all the whiners about Ice are.

Illuminator
Feb 24, 2009
1359
Then of course, we have OP Jade gear, having people achieve roughly 80% universal resist. :/ That also needs a MAJOR nerf.

Defender
Dec 16, 2009
193
BrynnerOfReign on Apr 7, 2013 wrote:
Waterworks gear gives everyone universal stats, which was and is sorely needed.

Crafted gear which gives Ice immunity to fire and storm? Please list that gear, as I have yet to find any crafted gear that gives such stats --- insert sarcasm here ---.

Anyone has the opportunity to go for immunity to fire and storm. However, if it is immunity someone wants, then it is not a smart move. Ever check out the stats of someone with this immunity? Not good.

Ice has higher health and good resist. However, they have low damage boosts compared to other schools, low base spell damage, low accuracy and boosts, lower critical, etc etc, compared to almost every other school.

In PvE, who cares what other schools have? Of course, I'm sure you're talking about PvP, which is where all the whiners about Ice are.
Lol, if you really don't know immunity gear, I can tell you. However, other gear is sacrificed. This is the resist from the gear mentioned:

Horned Helmet: 9% Global, 20% Fire, 16% Storm

Woodland Tribal Coat: 13% Global, 13% Fire, 13% Storm

Thaumaturge's Chill Waders: 15% OR (Level 90+) Mysterious Jade Boots: 16%

Elissa's Chill Band: 3% Global

This total (w/o pet) is 40% Global, 73% Fire, and 69% Fire
Add one percent to all results if you use Mysterious Jade Boots instead.

Now, we need 27% more for storm and 31% more for fire
Assuming we use Heartsteel, add 5 to each result and subtract 5 from how much we need more.
22% more for storm and 26% for fire
Assuming the pet has 9%spell-proof and 5% spell-defy, that is 14% resist globally.
8% more for storm and 12% more for fire. Also, 2 spaces taken from the pet.
We now have storm-proof and fire-proof (4 spaces taken on the pet), and we now have immunity to storm. However, assuming fire-proof is 9% we need a finishing touch from another fire resist thing, and that's it.
There's immunity, along with 59% global. However, I recommend using the whole level 90+ Mysterious Jade set, plus the pet for over 70% resist to all schools. Other people might use a different recipe for immunity.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1305
SchicksalBestimmun... on Apr 9, 2013 wrote:
Lol, if you really don't know immunity gear, I can tell you. However, other gear is sacrificed. This is the resist from the gear mentioned:

Horned Helmet: 9% Global, 20% Fire, 16% Storm

Woodland Tribal Coat: 13% Global, 13% Fire, 13% Storm

Thaumaturge's Chill Waders: 15% OR (Level 90+) Mysterious Jade Boots: 16%

Elissa's Chill Band: 3% Global

This total (w/o pet) is 40% Global, 73% Fire, and 69% Fire
Add one percent to all results if you use Mysterious Jade Boots instead.

Now, we need 27% more for storm and 31% more for fire
Assuming we use Heartsteel, add 5 to each result and subtract 5 from how much we need more.
22% more for storm and 26% for fire
Assuming the pet has 9%spell-proof and 5% spell-defy, that is 14% resist globally.
8% more for storm and 12% more for fire. Also, 2 spaces taken from the pet.
We now have storm-proof and fire-proof (4 spaces taken on the pet), and we now have immunity to storm. However, assuming fire-proof is 9% we need a finishing touch from another fire resist thing, and that's it.
There's immunity, along with 59% global. However, I recommend using the whole level 90+ Mysterious Jade set, plus the pet for over 70% resist to all schools. Other people might use a different recipe for immunity.
Obviously, you misread my statement. Let me reiterate: "Crafted gear which gives Ice immunity to fire and storm? Please list that gear, as I have yet to find any crafted gear that gives such stats". The OP was talking about immunity with crafted gear, and I wanted to point out that I would like to know which crafted gear they were talking about.

Oh sure, I could easily have immunity to Fire and Storm with the right combination of gear. Forget the Jade set. Having really high resist isn't really going to get you anywhere, unless all that person wants to do is turtle in PvP.

A good set of gear is the right balance between offense and defense, not just defense (aka: Jade gear).

My basic PvE gear stats for my L90 Ice are: 6120 health, 72% pips, 41% heal in, 187 critical, 188-214 block, resist is: 84 Fire, 80 Storm and 51 to all others, 44% damage, 4% pierce. I've even PvP'd in a 3v3 with this gear while the other team (Ice, Death & Life) was in full Jade gear. They didn't survive.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
SchicksalBestimmun... on Apr 9, 2013 wrote:
Lol, if you really don't know immunity gear, I can tell you. However, other gear is sacrificed. This is the resist from the gear mentioned:

Horned Helmet: 9% Global, 20% Fire, 16% Storm

Woodland Tribal Coat: 13% Global, 13% Fire, 13% Storm

Thaumaturge's Chill Waders: 15% OR (Level 90+) Mysterious Jade Boots: 16%

Elissa's Chill Band: 3% Global

This total (w/o pet) is 40% Global, 73% Fire, and 69% Fire
Add one percent to all results if you use Mysterious Jade Boots instead.

Now, we need 27% more for storm and 31% more for fire
Assuming we use Heartsteel, add 5 to each result and subtract 5 from how much we need more.
22% more for storm and 26% for fire
Assuming the pet has 9%spell-proof and 5% spell-defy, that is 14% resist globally.
8% more for storm and 12% more for fire. Also, 2 spaces taken from the pet.
We now have storm-proof and fire-proof (4 spaces taken on the pet), and we now have immunity to storm. However, assuming fire-proof is 9% we need a finishing touch from another fire resist thing, and that's it.
There's immunity, along with 59% global. However, I recommend using the whole level 90+ Mysterious Jade set, plus the pet for over 70% resist to all schools. Other people might use a different recipe for immunity.
Ah yes, the stats... Gotta love this... Oh, btw, you have storm and fire reversed. But, since you are talking about a pet with spell proof, spell defy, fire proof or fire-ward, storm proof or storm-ward, why dont you be so kind and let us all know how easy it is to get a pet with those exact talents, would you?

Especially since I see them everywhere all the time. I mean, those are what, a dime a dozen?

Also, since you are talking how easy all this is, how much does it cost to get the complete Jade Gear set?

Not that it matters, let's talk about what you are giving up with said gear and stats, shall we?

Accuracy? Oh yes, definitely giving up accuracy....
Damage? Oh my you are giving up tons of damage boosts, unless you use the Chill Waders that give 15% resistance, then you only lose accuracy, but wait, what's the critical block on those again?
Pips? Oh my the health and pip loss alone from using a Heartsteel is crazy....
Critical Block? You better have an excellent wand with tons of block or be using the Jade boots for extra block or all those criticals will go right through.

You think that criticals do not mean much? Take your supposed 59% global resistance, a fire or storm with it's high critical rate a convert/prism changing that immunity to global resistance, then use infallible, which adds in 20% armor piercing and you are talking major damage to that Ice that has very little critical block, no real damage boosts...

All this and still this all depends on IF you can get a pet with those exact talents, spend the crowns on all the gear, wands, pet training. Looks like a lot of IF's and that still does not mean you will win in PVP with someone that knows how to defeat a tanker, rather than whine about them.

Defender
Jan 02, 2011
138
Rony The Turtle on Apr 7, 2013 wrote:
Then of course, we have OP Jade gear, having people achieve roughly 80% universal resist. :/ That also needs a MAJOR nerf.
no, the gear doesn't need a MAJOR nerf. The gear is quite useful in the rest of the game. It's PVP that needs a MAJOR nerf.

Delver
Jul 15, 2011
290
Darth JT on Apr 9, 2013 wrote:
Ah yes, the stats... Gotta love this... Oh, btw, you have storm and fire reversed. But, since you are talking about a pet with spell proof, spell defy, fire proof or fire-ward, storm proof or storm-ward, why dont you be so kind and let us all know how easy it is to get a pet with those exact talents, would you?

Especially since I see them everywhere all the time. I mean, those are what, a dime a dozen?

Also, since you are talking how easy all this is, how much does it cost to get the complete Jade Gear set?

Not that it matters, let's talk about what you are giving up with said gear and stats, shall we?

Accuracy? Oh yes, definitely giving up accuracy....
Damage? Oh my you are giving up tons of damage boosts, unless you use the Chill Waders that give 15% resistance, then you only lose accuracy, but wait, what's the critical block on those again?
Pips? Oh my the health and pip loss alone from using a Heartsteel is crazy....
Critical Block? You better have an excellent wand with tons of block or be using the Jade boots for extra block or all those criticals will go right through.

You think that criticals do not mean much? Take your supposed 59% global resistance, a fire or storm with it's high critical rate a convert/prism changing that immunity to global resistance, then use infallible, which adds in 20% armor piercing and you are talking major damage to that Ice that has very little critical block, no real damage boosts...

All this and still this all depends on IF you can get a pet with those exact talents, spend the crowns on all the gear, wands, pet training. Looks like a lot of IF's and that still does not mean you will win in PVP with someone that knows how to defeat a tanker, rather than whine about them.
About as easy to make that pet as it is to make a pet with all heals. So that would mean it is pretty easy to make that pet. Would only take maybe two weeks of hatching.

Tatiana Winterheart

Defender
May 29, 2009
102
KorekuEternal on Apr 6, 2013 wrote:
Hey guys so I'm sure you've all been hearing the forum buzz about the many wizards that can't stand the stats of ice right now, due to the fact that they're able to get full immunity to fire and storm. Then there are other stories about storm's strength boost, fire's high accuracy, etc. How did this all start? Starting with Waterworks, KI has been making the gear way too high in stats. Lets look at the facts eh?

KI used to keep a constant rate in the stats of gear. For example, they'd implement something like "every 5 levels, we'll add 2 more resist points to gear, and 3 more strength points". This kept the gear advancing at gradual rate, which was balanced. But then, the Waterworks set comes in, and you've got a HUGE leap in power. This began the problem of imbalanced stats in gear. KI wasn't sticking to their constant rate formula, and instead decided to throw in super powerful stats to make players happy. Things only get worse with the crafted gear, which basically gave ice Immunity to fire and storm.

Whoa. Freeze.

Immunity?! As in, ice is simply invincible to fire and storm? As in, no matter how much strength boost fire or storm has, they're going to do 0 damage when they cast that spell? Just like that?! KI is handing out these stats like candy! We need some nerfs thrown in here and there, because this needs to stop now... Now I tell ya!!

What do you guys think?
Why are you complaining. What do you care if ice has great resist. It's not like you are fighting them unless you do pvp very often. If you think ice has a great advantage, why don't you make an ice wiz