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Gambling has no place in a family game, KI

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
I was going to post the dictionary definition for gambling but someone has already done that. It is CLEARLY gambling. Most states that outlaw gambling only outlaw the more high stakes versions, the kind where you can lose everything. Just because this isn't illegal doesn't mean it isn't low stakes gambling. The question at hand really is whether or not it is BENIGN gambling.

There are plenty of examples of acceptable gambling, such as baseball cards or the multiple "packs" that KI already sells and has sold for a long time. There are of course the "last chance" chests as well. Personally, I think the precedent was set a long time ago (for those of you that follow the forums, you may remember a number of threads complaining about the "last chance" chests and children wasting all their crowns on them) and I don't have a problem with the Dragon's Hoard pack. Yes, I'm a parent with two children who play. I frankly think that my kids are exposed to worse in public school. I simply control the situation through communication so that they understand what they are putting their allowance down on and what that same amount of money could buy instead.

That's my take on it anyway.

Hero
Nov 22, 2010
747
it's only gambling in the mind of those players who are after a specific item and who don't get that item the first pack they buy. They took a gamble inside themselves, telling themselves that they would "win" something and then being disappointed when they didn't get exactly what they were after.

However the packs themselves are not a gambling item and buying them is not participating in gambling, any more than buying a mystery grab bag at your local store is gambling.

The value of all the items in the pack is more than the crowns spent on it, regardless of what they all turn out to be. There's no risk involved. The person spending the crowns on the pack get what they pay for even if they don't happen to get the one item they just HAVE to HAVE to make buying the pack worth their effort as far as they are personally concerned.

Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1469
I promised myself I wouldn't comment on any threads that weren't posted by me, but I had to respond to this. I agree with you, and it's not because I wasted around C20,000 on these packs and got mostly Dragonspyre-inspired housing decor (which is completely useless to me since I don't have a castle and my dorm is Marleybone-inspired) and gardening supplies/seeds (I despise gardening), it's because nearly everyone who's posted on this thread has made a huge mistake. Validating the classification of one thing by comparing it to the same thing isn't validation. Saying, "If the Dragon's Hoard pack is gambling, then aren't Pokemon and baseball trading cards the same thing," doesn't prove that the Dragon's Hoard pack isn't gambling. One is just as bad as the other. The way I see it, the reason this should be classified as gambling is because when I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack, just like when you buy a Pokemon card pack or a Baseball card pack, I didn't buy it just to say I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack. I bought it because my Necromancer has been without a mount for a while since I've been waiting for KI to release a Death-related mount and saw my chance to get it when the Dragon's Hoard pack came out. Now as for removing it from the game...I do think that's a tad extreme. As much as I'd love for KI to remove this and just sell the items seperately, I doubt it'll happen any time soon. What I do suggest is that KI decrease the amount of things available in the pack. No one wants decor from a crown pack and they most likely don't want dragon pets or gardening treasure cards either. They should strip it down to things that wizards have an actual use for. I'd be happy with the pack then, but now it's just ridiculous. I think KI needs to calm down because they're becoming more and more like your everyday money-hungry company.

Survivor
Sep 14, 2009
22
May I suggest that you read the denotation definition of gambling above ? If this were a card pack, then it would just have cards in the pack, like baseball cards. What they have done is add a fancy looking ride that many people want to own. One person posted that they spent $250 USD to get the mount. I would suggest that the buyers are wanting the Dragon ride, the wings, the pets and the swords. The gear isn't that great for Crown gear and the rest of the stuff is just common items. Add the low Crown price and you solicit multiple purchases. If all you want is a specific item, then you really gain nothing from the stones and cards you get if you don't use them.

As for "warnings," I would say that the ad page is about like a MacDonald's ad to the younger people here. I would have liked to have seen a list of all items obtainable in the packs as well as a percentage of getting each in a pack. (There are games that do this with their packs.) My opinion is that KI made some good money on this pack offering.

KI controls all the money in this game. It would be nice to see KI add something like an Banking House where one could exchange coins for Crowns. This would open up the market on their future pack offerings. (This one worked so it probably won't be the last pack offering.) This woud get more people playing more often to farm for coins and expand their Crown Shop sales while leveling the playing field for all players. It might even reduce the begging going in game.

Semper Fi,

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
steveheffner wrote:
darthjt wrote:
We all have the ability to choose to buy something, or choose not to buy...

Now, a lotto, is gambling... You take a chance and can get nothing in return...

In this specific case, you know what you are buying before hand, you also know that each pack is different and may or may not hold the cards you want... Same as any baseball or trading card packs... Sometimes you get the exact cards you want and sometimes you don't... However, you choose to buy them, knowing you might not get the cards you want...

But, you do get stuff, therfore, it is not gambling, you are simply making a purchase of cards...



I am not sure you actually read what I wrote. Like I said it IS gambing.

defination of gambling from dictonary.com
1.
to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.

2.
to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.

By that very defination it is gambling, same with buying baseball card packs. The thing is legally gambling has been defined slightly differently in that as long as you are getting something it isn't gambling. When I look at a horse I call it a horse i don't invent a new name for it. So i prefer to be upfront and honest about it. This is gambling pure and simple. Since you wish to not call it gambling what would you call it? You are taking a risk/gamble at a reward that you want which is the sole reason you are buying the pack in the first place.

So really the question on is it gambling is fairly straight forward. It is gambling, the thing is honestly no one is being forced to do this. It has been common practice for this sort of gambling for very long time. Long before this game was even a twinkle in the designers eyes. I just don't appreciate not calling a horse a horse is all.


defination of gambling from dictonary.com
1.
to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.

2.
to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.


Well, lets see, are we playing a game of chance? Yes and No, There is no chance that you will get 7 cards in your dragon hoard pack... You are specifically buying those 7 cards... Now, what cards you get, yes, I guess I can concede that is chance, but is not playing a game of chance...

And we are not staking or Risking Money, it is crowns, crowns do have value though, on the outcome of something involving chance... Well, considering it is not chance that you get 7 cards, that is specifically what you are buying... Do the cards have value, actually, they have gold value in the game, as you can sell the stuff for gold... But IRL value, no... The only thing that makes this even slightly viewed as gambling, is the fact that many will buy these packs hoping and praying to get a cheap mount, cheap pet, or some cheap crown gear...

Now, the Mega Snack packs offer 7 random cards, you never know which ones you will get, are they gambling too?

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2645
Maybe they should just remove the Bone Dragon, Dragon Wings and the pets so we can get back to complaining about the Hand of Doom pack and the lack of Malistaire cards.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
crystalwizard12345... wrote:
However the packs themselves are not a gambling item and buying them is not participating in gambling, any more than buying a mystery grab bag at your local store is gambling.


Oh, but it is... you're laying down money on a site unseen item. How do you know it equates to the value (in your mind) of the money you laid down in advance until after you got the item? That makes it inherently a "gamble". It isn't a high stakes gamble, but its a gamble none the less.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
So let's say I love red life savers and buy a pack, upon opening the pack I notice there is only one red one. Is that gambling too? Should they ban life savers or force the company to mark each quantity of every color on every pack? Many buy these packs for different reasons, not just for the mount and they are q good value compared to other crown items.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
travisAk wrote:
So let's say I love red life savers and buy a pack, upon opening the pack I notice there is only one red one. Is that gambling too? Should they ban life savers or force the company to mark each quantity of every color on every pack? Many buy these packs for different reasons, not just for the mount and they are q good value compared to other crown items.


Ironically, I do know people for whom that is a valid problem and have taken the pack back for an exchange. Now personally, I wouldn't call that a gamble though because different flavors don't have wildly different value. By contrast, the dragon's hoard pack has a stated chance of getting a few particular items. We're not talking about different colors or flavors here, but entirely different types of items.

Perhaps the single biggest draw of this new pack is the bone dragon mount. Every friend I have on every wizard below the age of 16 has pestered me for crowns or gifting of this pack to them because they want that mount. NONE of my friends have EVER pestered me for crowns or gifting before. I have also never seen the sheer volume of people standing in a common area asking for crowns or to gift them the new pack. Sure, there has always been the odd person here or there, but not in almost every world and realm I visit and at almost every time of day.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the original poster. I don't think the item should be pulled and I also don't think its that huge of a deal for my kids and in fact I consider it to be a "teachable moment" for them. I'm just amazed at how many people think that because it is "lesser" gambling which is common and sanctioned in society, that it isn't gambling at all.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
steveheffner wrote:

defination of gambling from dictonary.com

1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.

2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.


by that definition everyone who subscribes or pays crowns to play Wizard101 is gambling regardless off whether they are buying any sort of blister pack

There is nothing guaranteed in Wizard101. When I go into any fight my cards are dealt randomly, I have a chance of fizzle, of not getting power pips, and so on cause anything that is random involves chance and anytime you engage in chance in any game that you pay money to play falls under definition number one.

Under definition two, simply playing Wizard101 for crowns or subscription is again gambling. Under a subscription you are gambling that you can get what you want, fun and entertainment under the time period of your subscription. Under crowns you are gambling that you will be playing the areas you purchase with crowns enough to cover the expense of getting them. Anytime you get a new pet and work on training it up you are gambling on the pet and since Wizard101 isn't completely free to play under the definitions presented here its obviously gambling.

Now to pick on the dragon packs for gambling when obviously everyone is already engaged in gambling just by playing a non-totally free game under the definitions of gambling presented above is a bit comical.

Survivor
Jun 07, 2010
2
crystalfiod2 wrote:

I can see that as being a problem, and can see why parents would become upset over their children engaging in such behavior which in the eyes of the parents may look like stepping stones leading into gambling addictions.

When it comes to this type of random pack, there should be a parent account option to disallow crowns to be spent on this type of product. Furthermore all items in the packs should also be made available in the crown shop for as long as the packs are being sold.

It may not be gambling, though I think it may lead into the addictive behavior of gambling so I do see the parental concern on this.


Actually, you bring up a good point and I was wondering why no one has mentioned it as a form of parental control in this matter. If you have a family of accounts, the person who has the "master account" can transfer crowns between the individual accounts. If parents are concerned that purchasing these packs will lead to the addictive behavior of gambling, they have the option of controlling the amount of crowns in their child's account. They can simply put the amount of crowns into the child's account that they are allowed to spend--if they want to allow the child to buy one of the Dragon Packs, only put 399 crowns in the child's account. And, if parents are concerned that this may lead to an addictive behavior such as gambling, might it not be a great time to open a dialogue with children about the topic? It could be an excellent teaching opportunity where children can possibly learn the dangers of addictive behaviors and how to exercise self-control in such matters. Just my two cents. Happy Wizarding!

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
seasnake wrote:
steveheffner wrote:

defination of gambling from dictonary.com

1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.

2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.


by that definition everyone who subscribes or pays crowns to play Wizard101 is gambling regardless off whether they are buying any sort of blister pack


No it isn't. You are paying a defined amount for defined access to play a game (or portions of the game) and that game includes free to play access areas in order to "try before you buy" as well. There are not stakes involved. An example of involving stakes would if you could gain or lose real money with every battle.

seasnake wrote:
Under definition two, simply playing Wizard101 for crowns or subscription is again gambling. Under a subscription you are gambling that you can get what you want, fun and entertainment under the time period of your subscription.


While it is technically true that any trade transaction involves a certain degree of risk (gamble) you are really stretching hard to make this comparison to the dragon's hoard pack. In traditional transactions, the exchange is well defined as it is in this case. You are exchanging money in one of the many ways that KI offers for access to play a game defined by the avenue you chose to purchase. The terms are quite clear. The dragon's hoard pack, by comparison, offers "cards" which vary wildly in scope and type. For heaven's sake its in advertisement:

"The Dragon's Hoard Pack is now available in the Crown Shop! Get a chance at brand new rare & ultra rare Dragon Rider's items including:
Bone Dragon Mount

Double Handed Blade

New Dragon Pets

Special Dragon Rider's Gear

And more mystery items!"

I highlighted the key phrase in red. It is clearly a gamble, and it is clearly targeted at the younger audience that would want any of those rare items for their wizard. Those items advertised are "ultrarare" and are wildly differing categories of items from gear, to mounts, to pets, to housing items. As previously stated, I don't personally have a big issue with it for my kids, I just don't know why everyone seems to be trying to define it away as not gambling.

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2645
gtarhannon wrote:

I highlighted the key phrase in red. It is clearly a gamble, and it is clearly targeted at the younger audience that would want any of those rare items for their wizard. Those items advertised are "ultrarare" and are wildly differing categories of items from gear, to mounts, to pets, to housing items. As previously stated, I don't personally have a big issue with it for my kids, I just don't know why everyone seems to be trying to define it away as not gambling.


Because the orginal OP put the gambling in context with that of casino gambling. As if the new packs will create Dragon Hoard "addicts." The definition should not be the center of topic here. The topic WAS centered on the fact that the new pack was a bad thing for this game.

This pack operates no different than any other pack KI has ever released. The difference? People actually want something specific from this one.

Squire
Aug 12, 2009
593
gtarhannon wrote:
seasnake wrote:
steveheffner wrote:

defination of gambling from dictonary.com

1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.

2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.


by that definition everyone who subscribes or pays crowns to play Wizard101 is gambling regardless off whether they are buying any sort of blister pack


No it isn't. You are paying a defined amount for defined access to play a game (or portions of the game) and that game includes free to play access areas in order to "try before you buy" as well. There are not stakes involved. An example of involving stakes would if you could gain or lose real money with every battle.

seasnake wrote:
Under definition two, simply playing Wizard101 for crowns or subscription is again gambling. Under a subscription you are gambling that you can get what you want, fun and entertainment under the time period of your subscription.


While it is technically true that any trade transaction involves a certain degree of risk (gamble) you are really stretching hard to make this comparison to the dragon's hoard pack. In traditional transactions, the exchange is well defined as it is in this case. You are exchanging money in one of the many ways that KI offers for access to play a game defined by the avenue you chose to purchase. The terms are quite clear. The dragon's hoard pack, by comparison, offers "cards" which vary wildly in scope and type. For heaven's sake its in advertisement:

"The Dragon's Hoard Pack is now available in the Crown Shop! Get a chance at brand new rare & ultra rare Dragon Rider's items including:
Bone Dragon Mount

Double Handed Blade

New Dragon Pets

Special Dragon Rider's Gear

And more mystery items!"

I highlighted the key phrase in red. It is clearly a gamble, and it is clearly targeted at the younger audience that would want any of those rare items for their wizard. Those items advertised are "ultrarare" and are wildly differing categories of items from gear, to mounts, to pets, to housing items. As previously stated, I don't personally have a big issue with it for my kids, I just don't know why everyone seems to be trying to define it away as not gambling.


Whether or not it is gambling, it is an accepted form of gambling for children. 399 Crowns = 79.8 Cents. This is cheap compared to other 'child appropriate' accepted forms of gambling (trading card games) which normally costs $3.99 + tax per pack.

Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG packs are:
8:1 chance of Common (Super Rare + eats up common slots in pack)
1:1 chance of Rare (silver foil name)
1:4 chance of Super Rare (Holofoil picture)
1:12 chance of Ultra Rare (Holofoil picture, Golden foil name)
1:24 chance of Ultimate Rare (Holofoil picture, name, and star level)
1:36 chance of Secret Rare (Extra Foiled picture, foiled name)
1:64 chance of Ghost Rare (3D Holofoil picture, foiled name)

In each 100 card booster series of Yu-Gi-Oh! you are looking at roughly:
48 Commons
20 Rares
14 Supers
10 Ultras (and Ultimates)
8 Secrets
1 Ghost

With each SEALED Booster Box (24 packs) you are going to get 4-6 Super, 2 Ultra, 1 Ultimate or Secret per sealed box. Buying 24 packs out of open boxes gets you back right to the default statistics. A Sealed Booster Box costs roughly $100.00 per box depending upon price of pack. I've seen people open packs and get 5 Holofoils in a pack. I've opened packs and gotten 4 Ghost Rares packaged together once. End of the day, it's all random.

I'm sorry, but don't expect pity from me for this issue. As stated before, you're paying money for a pack of Dragon-themed items. This isn't really 'gambling' because you always get something for your crowns, unlike with wishing wells which were giving Potions which wouldn't activate.

At the end of the day, are you really going to complain about something that is only $0.80 per pack?

Survivor
May 19, 2011
44
Explorer
Jan 17, 2010
77
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
I promised myself I wouldn't comment on any threads that weren't posted by me, but I had to respond to this. I agree with you, and it's not because I wasted around C20,000 on these packs and got mostly Dragonspyre-inspired housing decor (which is completely useless to me since I don't have a castle and my dorm is Marleybone-inspired) and gardening supplies/seeds (I despise gardening), it's because nearly everyone who's posted on this thread has made a huge mistake. Validating the classification of one thing by comparing it to the same thing isn't validation. Saying, "If the Dragon's Hoard pack is gambling, then aren't Pokemon and baseball trading cards the same thing," doesn't prove that the Dragon's Hoard pack isn't gambling. One is just as bad as the other. The way I see it, the reason this should be classified as gambling is because when I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack, just like when you buy a Pokemon card pack or a Baseball card pack, I didn't buy it just to say I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack. I bought it because my Necromancer has been without a mount for a while since I've been waiting for KI to release a Death-related mount and saw my chance to get it when the Dragon's Hoard pack came out. Now as for removing it from the game...I do think that's a tad extreme. As much as I'd love for KI to remove this and just sell the items seperately, I doubt it'll happen any time soon. What I do suggest is that KI decrease the amount of things available in the pack. No one wants decor from a crown pack and they most likely don't want dragon pets or gardening treasure cards either. They should strip it down to things that wizards have an actual use for. I'd be happy with the pack then, but now it's just ridiculous. I think KI needs to calm down because they're becoming more and more like your everyday money-hungry company.
Most of us say it is gambling lol....but its Legal Gambling....get with the program....

Everyone that complains just cause they went after dragon only are the ones that I find at fault....I bought them just cause it was a new item in shop.... I hadn't even looked at the posted page from KI on it....

'ILLEGAL GAMBLING' is business that takes money with no pay off. Only a few would ever get the jackpots.... Those that 'ONLY' consider 'BONE DRAGON' as a jackpot should look at the other items worth as little as 5k to as much as 12.5k crowns.

I liked getting the decor.... i liked the pets.... and the mounts.....all in all i am like many others that bought packs and got a 10 to 1 pay out each time 'MIN'.......

Sure i got a few treasures i could care less about but still.....it was a high payout....

I would suggest they were added to shop in Singles though like Bone Dragon being set at atleast 15k.... pets i cant even be sure what all they have yet havent trained enough of them yet....but yeah prices really would be way higher than you of spent....

Good luck getting the only item you think is worth anything......Cause i didnt think it was the only one worth having

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
kingurz wrote:
Because the orginal OP put the gambling in context with that of casino gambling. As if the new packs will create Dragon Hoard "addicts." The definition should not be the center of topic here. The topic WAS centered on the fact that the new pack was a bad thing for this game.

This pack operates no different than any other pack KI has ever released. The difference? People actually want something specific from this one.


I can see what you mean, but I have just read a lot of posts in here that specifically say "it's not gambling". You and I are in agreement that the discussion should be on whether or not the new pack is bad. While I don't see it as significantly different than existing packs, there is substantially more chance involved in it's purchase, and so I can see where she's coming from in her parental concern. However, I differ in that I see this as an opportunity to teach my kids how to deal appropriately with this kind of thing. Therefore, while I think it is indeed specifically designed and marketed with the intention of getting kids to spend a lot (and it appears to be working), I also don't think it needs to be pulled. I would say though, I can see how many parents would like some sort of parental control as has been suggested in here.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Johnist wrote:
Whether or not it is gambling, it is an accepted form of gambling for children. 399 Crowns = 79.8 Cents. This is cheap compared to other 'child appropriate' accepted forms of gambling (trading card games) which normally costs $3.99 + tax per pack.


No argument from me on that point.

Johnist wrote:
I'm sorry, but don't expect pity from me for this issue. As stated before, you're paying money for a pack of Dragon-themed items. This isn't really 'gambling' because you always get something for your crowns, unlike with wishing wells which were giving Potions which wouldn't activate.


No pity is expected from you on the issue. This item really is "an accepted form of gambling for children" as you previously stated. The issue I take with so many trying to define away this purchase with phrases such as "This isn't really 'gambling'" is that it is a direct attempt to minimize the OP's concerns by trying to take the connotationally charged term "gambling" out of the equation.

Johnist wrote:
At the end of the day, are you really going to complain about something that is only $0.80 per pack?


No, I personally am not going to complain. However, the original poster is showing real concern and thought for an issue that parents should be involved in and talking to their kids about. I appreciate the thoughts on the subject. I simply differ in opinion regarding the rather strong sentiment that it should have no place in a family game.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
there is an element of gambling that just isn't present here... when you gamble for money you enter into a game of chance for which you stake money at in order to obtain the chance at increasing your wealth so that you may then use that wealth elsewheres, the game packs however is however more of a product as whatever you get isn't going to be worth the gold for selling it, isn't going to be something that is transferrable for cash, it is a product that you probably won't even use if you do have it with the exception of the mount and for equipment stitching purposes, none of this makes you feel like your life is going to be better if you have it... gambling without any real payoff that always gives you products is a world of difference than casino type gambling... and you think I twisted the definitionn of gambling around, how people here are twisting and braadening it to fit their objective appears ludicrous to me

Squire
Aug 12, 2009
593
BLSKis1 wrote:
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
I promised myself I wouldn't comment on any threads that weren't posted by me, but I had to respond to this. I agree with you, and it's not because I wasted around C20,000 on these packs and got mostly Dragonspyre-inspired housing decor (which is completely useless to me since I don't have a castle and my dorm is Marleybone-inspired) and gardening supplies/seeds (I despise gardening), it's because nearly everyone who's posted on this thread has made a huge mistake. Validating the classification of one thing by comparing it to the same thing isn't validation. Saying, "If the Dragon's Hoard pack is gambling, then aren't Pokemon and baseball trading cards the same thing," doesn't prove that the Dragon's Hoard pack isn't gambling. One is just as bad as the other. The way I see it, the reason this should be classified as gambling is because when I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack, just like when you buy a Pokemon card pack or a Baseball card pack, I didn't buy it just to say I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack. I bought it because my Necromancer has been without a mount for a while since I've been waiting for KI to release a Death-related mount and saw my chance to get it when the Dragon's Hoard pack came out. Now as for removing it from the game...I do think that's a tad extreme. As much as I'd love for KI to remove this and just sell the items seperately, I doubt it'll happen any time soon. What I do suggest is that KI decrease the amount of things available in the pack. No one wants decor from a crown pack and they most likely don't want dragon pets or gardening treasure cards either. They should strip it down to things that wizards have an actual use for. I'd be happy with the pack then, but now it's just ridiculous. I think KI needs to calm down because they're becoming more and more like your everyday money-hungry company.
Most of us say it is gambling lol....but its Legal Gambling....get with the program....

Everyone that complains just cause they went after dragon only are the ones that I find at fault....I bought them just cause it was a new item in shop.... I hadn't even looked at the posted page from KI on it....

'ILLEGAL GAMBLING' is business that takes money with no pay off. Only a few would ever get the jackpots.... Those that 'ONLY' consider 'BONE DRAGON' as a jackpot should look at the other items worth as little as 5k to as much as 12.5k crowns.

I liked getting the decor.... i liked the pets.... and the mounts.....all in all i am like many others that bought packs and got a 10 to 1 pay out each time 'MIN'.......

Sure i got a few treasures i could care less about but still.....it was a high payout....

I would suggest they were added to shop in Singles though like Bone Dragon being set at atleast 15k.... pets i cant even be sure what all they have yet havent trained enough of them yet....but yeah prices really would be way higher than you of spent....

Good luck getting the only item you think is worth anything......Cause i didnt think it was the only one worth having


I would value each piece of clothing (hat, robe, and boots) to be worth about 1,250C - 3,500C max each, although if sold as a 'Set' in the shop, it would probably show up for 12,500 like Baconator.

The low level Swords (up to the Level 40 one) would be about 2,500C - 3,500C. The Level 40, 50, and 60 Swords would be 5,000C.

The new Permanent DRAGON WINGS mount would be worth around 7,000C.

Vigilant, Assailing, and Utility Dragon pets would be priced around 6,000C - 7,500C.

Sea Dragon is worth 12,500C, or hours (days or weeks even) of farming Astraeus.

The Permanent BONE DRAGON mount I would price at 15,000C - 17,500C

So, while I think that they should offer these items separate from the pack, I realize how hard it can be to obtain some of these new items, and that's the way it was designed because that's the nature of a Booster Pack. Please refer to my post (above or on page 2 if this goes on page 3) about the Pull Rate of Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG cards.

Booster Packs has long been an approved form of family gaming. The funny thing about this booster pack is I spent roughly 20,000C and I netted close to 105,000C worth of items throughout my boosters... As long as you get a Crowns Only pet (yes, I got like 5 of those annoying little shop dragons from this pack too), permanent wings, or even gear, you are getting out ahead in the crowns cost deal.

Defender
Oct 05, 2010
185
nearly all aspects in this game involve chance. hatching for a hybrid, farming a monster for that wicked robe, casting a spell and hoping it wont fizzle, and purchasing all crown card packs. a lot of things in life involve chance. maybe we can all learn from this. we can learn that if we are willing to waste our or our parents money on stupid mounts, then we dont get it after the 100th pack, we learn that we should not gamble. if you dont want to expose this to your children, give them a lecture on the following, dont give them the money for the crowns, and they walk away with a lesson learned

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
I equate these a packs to the trading card packs readily available in retail stores. They are no different in my mind. Those packs are not gambling to me. Nor are the Dragon Hoard packs. Yes there is an element of luck, a big one. I think the digital media makes them feel different than the packs in store. It brings out the element of luck more.

When people depend on a dictionary definition or a legal definition they are getting technical. I don't like technicalities. They can be good or bad. I tend to think of them in legal system. The dictionary definition makes everyday life gambling. I tend to apply common sense more often than not.

When I think "gambling" it is betting on the ponies, the office baseball pool etc. with higher stakes, where the chance of walking away with nothing is high. The cost of packs is slight and you do walk away with something.

I also see them as a teachable moment. In similar situations we taught my kids to make thoughtful decisions and live with the consequences of their decisions. "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit." was an often repeated phrase in our household. Ultimately to me we have to teach our children to handle things like this responsibly and make decisions like this carefully.

Megan

Explorer
Jan 17, 2010
77
Johnist wrote:
BLSKis1 wrote:
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
I promised myself I wouldn't comment on any threads that weren't posted by me, but I had to respond to this. I agree with you, and it's not because I wasted around C20,000 on these packs and got mostly Dragonspyre-inspired housing decor (which is completely useless to me since I don't have a castle and my dorm is Marleybone-inspired) and gardening supplies/seeds (I despise gardening), it's because nearly everyone who's posted on this thread has made a huge mistake. Validating the classification of one thing by comparing it to the same thing isn't validation. Saying, "If the Dragon's Hoard pack is gambling, then aren't Pokemon and baseball trading cards the same thing," doesn't prove that the Dragon's Hoard pack isn't gambling. One is just as bad as the other. The way I see it, the reason this should be classified as gambling is because when I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack, just like when you buy a Pokemon card pack or a Baseball card pack, I didn't buy it just to say I bought a Dragon's Hoard pack. I bought it because my Necromancer has been without a mount for a while since I've been waiting for KI to release a Death-related mount and saw my chance to get it when the Dragon's Hoard pack came out. Now as for removing it from the game...I do think that's a tad extreme. As much as I'd love for KI to remove this and just sell the items seperately, I doubt it'll happen any time soon. What I do suggest is that KI decrease the amount of things available in the pack. No one wants decor from a crown pack and they most likely don't want dragon pets or gardening treasure cards either. They should strip it down to things that wizards have an actual use for. I'd be happy with the pack then, but now it's just ridiculous. I think KI needs to calm down because they're becoming more and more like your everyday money-hungry company.
Most of us say it is gambling lol....but its Legal Gambling....get with the program....

Everyone that complains just cause they went after dragon only are the ones that I find at fault....I bought them just cause it was a new item in shop.... I hadn't even looked at the posted page from KI on it....

'ILLEGAL GAMBLING' is business that takes money with no pay off. Only a few would ever get the jackpots.... Those that 'ONLY' consider 'BONE DRAGON' as a jackpot should look at the other items worth as little as 5k to as much as 12.5k crowns.

I liked getting the decor.... i liked the pets.... and the mounts.....all in all i am like many others that bought packs and got a 10 to 1 pay out each time 'MIN'.......

Sure i got a few treasures i could care less about but still.....it was a high payout....

I would suggest they were added to shop in Singles though like Bone Dragon being set at atleast 15k.... pets i cant even be sure what all they have yet havent trained enough of them yet....but yeah prices really would be way higher than you of spent....

Good luck getting the only item you think is worth anything......Cause i didnt think it was the only one worth having


I would value each piece of clothing (hat, robe, and boots) to be worth about 1,250C - 3,500C max each, although if sold as a 'Set' in the shop, it would probably show up for 12,500 like Baconator.

The low level Swords (up to the Level 40 one) would be about 2,500C - 3,500C. The Level 40, 50, and 60 Swords would be 5,000C.

The new Permanent DRAGON WINGS mount would be worth around 7,000C.

Vigilant, Assailing, and Utility Dragon pets would be priced around 6,000C - 7,500C.

Sea Dragon is worth 12,500C, or hours (days or weeks even) of farming Astraeus.

The Permanent BONE DRAGON mount I would price at 15,000C - 17,500C

So, while I think that they should offer these items separate from the pack, I realize how hard it can be to obtain some of these new items, and that's the way it was designed because that's the nature of a Booster Pack. Please refer to my post (above or on page 2 if this goes on page 3) about the Pull Rate of Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG cards.

Booster Packs has long been an approved form of family gaming. The funny thing about this booster pack is I spent roughly 20,000C and I netted close to 105,000C worth of items throughout my boosters... As long as you get a Crowns Only pet (yes, I got like 5 of those annoying little shop dragons from this pack too), permanent wings, or even gear, you are getting out ahead in the crowns cost deal.
yep thats exactly what i said just not with all the specific prices...

Most of these ppl are thinking spending say 10k crowns at most and getting no dragon mount was the only thing they felt gipped by and I disagreed just as was said by some others.

I spent 20k roughly and got between 200k and 400k crowns in worth out of them.....thats what i was saying was their fallacy. I personally dont like it when ppl make statements that arent thought out and i was stating such.

The ppl that only want dragon mount.....well sorry if you didnt get it in say your first 5k or 10k but its worth easily 15k......its average seems to be about 1/15 packs to 1/25 packs.....i am not saying it cant be higher but most of my friends are happy with all their outcomes.....sorry some of these ppl that make these i think 'unthought out' posts. Percentages plus probability and in turn proportions all comes out to disagree with such complains. Try again.....is all i can say....you will get it soon enough plus lots of other good things even if you consider them all junk....

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2645
gtarhannon wrote:
kingurz wrote:
Because the orginal OP put the gambling in context with that of casino gambling. As if the new packs will create Dragon Hoard "addicts." The definition should not be the center of topic here. The topic WAS centered on the fact that the new pack was a bad thing for this game.

This pack operates no different than any other pack KI has ever released. The difference? People actually want something specific from this one.


I can see what you mean, but I have just read a lot of posts in here that specifically say "it's not gambling". You and I are in agreement that the discussion should be on whether or not the new pack is bad. While I don't see it as significantly different than existing packs, there is substantially more chance involved in it's purchase, and so I can see where she's coming from in her parental concern. However, I differ in that I see this as an opportunity to teach my kids how to deal appropriately with this kind of thing. Therefore, while I think it is indeed specifically designed and marketed with the intention of getting kids to spend a lot (and it appears to be working), I also don't think it needs to be pulled. I would say though, I can see how many parents would like some sort of parental control as has been suggested in here.


Yup, full agreement. Wizard 101 is both a kid and adult game. I see the crowns management as a parental responsibility, just like the chat options. The actual playing portion is a kid and adult function. If a parent would like to spend a lot of money on packs, that is actually good for KI since it generates more revenue. However, kids don't pay the bills in the house. So the "how much can we spend" talk should be conveyed between adult and child. If a parent allows a child account to have lots of crowns, aren't they saying "have at it"? While more crown parental controls wouldn't hurt, limiting the child account to zero crowns is the ultimate control (which currently exists). Before the packs came out, there was nothing stopping a child from buying every pet, outfit or mount in the crown shop, which can come at a hefty price too. While the packs could become a bad thing, I believe that it is ultimately a household responsibility and not a KI responsibility. KI is a business, and let's face it, businesses are there to make money. This just happens to be an interesting twist and untraditional way to buy gear from the crown shop.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
mom2mykidzcrcj wrote:
When people depend on a dictionary definition or a legal definition they are getting technical. I don't like technicalities. They can be good or bad. I tend to think of them in legal system. The dictionary definition makes everyday life gambling. I tend to apply common sense more often than not.


The devil, as they say, is in the details. Everyday life is a gamble with the stakes being your continued existence. You hope to get out of bed every day and start a new day, but you just never know. I know its a bit off topic, but sometimes I can't help but engage in a little philosophical tangent. :D