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Fire being cheated???

AuthorMessage
Explorer
May 17, 2009
55
What is the deal with all the new spells coming out till for fire, everything after RoF, not one useful spell for fire whether we're talking about regular school spells (sun serpent), accessory spells (detonate, backdraft), even craftable spells (brimstone revenant). All of these, completely useless, and the only new things we've gotten in the past since November 2011. Almost 2 years now and the only new spells fire gets are spells that are only used to joke around, or just because we have them. I'm not saying all of these need to be perfect, because i know that some other schools got somewhat as useless spells since then as well, only difference is that no other school has had everything be useless since 2011 which is ridiculous! There's a chance someone will bring up mass prism, and spear spells, so i'll save you the time and tell you that every school except balance got these and that's only because there's no balance shield, and not too many people have high resist balance gear so, just don't bother. Overall I think KI needs to start giving fire some decent spells again they don't have to be as epic as efreet or RoF, but at least make sure they can and will be used in most real duels. I'm not sure about you other pyromancers but that's my opinion, and i think we're entitled to some pretty epic spells of all these kinds with the next update after all these useless jokes.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3171
Incinerater007 on Jun 16, 2013 wrote:
What is the deal with all the new spells coming out till for fire, everything after RoF, not one useful spell for fire whether we're talking about regular school spells (sun serpent), accessory spells (detonate, backdraft), even craftable spells (brimstone revenant). All of these, completely useless, and the only new things we've gotten in the past since November 2011. Almost 2 years now and the only new spells fire gets are spells that are only used to joke around, or just because we have them. I'm not saying all of these need to be perfect, because i know that some other schools got somewhat as useless spells since then as well, only difference is that no other school has had everything be useless since 2011 which is ridiculous! There's a chance someone will bring up mass prism, and spear spells, so i'll save you the time and tell you that every school except balance got these and that's only because there's no balance shield, and not too many people have high resist balance gear so, just don't bother. Overall I think KI needs to start giving fire some decent spells again they don't have to be as epic as efreet or RoF, but at least make sure they can and will be used in most real duels. I'm not sure about you other pyromancers but that's my opinion, and i think we're entitled to some pretty epic spells of all these kinds with the next update after all these useless jokes.
lol, fire wizards aren't the only ones getting ripped off.7
here are my spells~

mana burn

this spell was created for the sole purpose of "balancing out" first-cast advantage in pvp. unlike lord of winter and celestial calendar, both of which actually steal pips and dispel and opponent's pre-selected spell, this does not and basically equates to a free cast for your opponent.

supernova

yes, it gets rid of enemy auras and does 500-odd damage. but, with its 60% success rate, a thunder snake has less chance off fizzling.

sabretooth

at rank 10, we got 1100 base damage + spirit shield to caster; total waste of pips, plus the after-effect is lamesauce. given the choice between spending 7 pips for a colossal power nova, which does 745 base damage and adds a weakness to all, and 10 pips for this joke, i'll take the power nova.

as for there being no balance spear, what about tower shields? once again, ki has left us without a way to break shields or get rid of weakness, which all schools (including fire) do have, and have had for ages. so if you want to talk about getting ripped off? make a balance wizard, then argue away.

-v.

Explorer
Nov 05, 2011
94
I don't play fire but I love your sun serpent spell, hits the boss hard and has smaller blasts for the minions. I'd love to have that spell!

If these spells are bad what in your opinion can be done to improve them?

Calamity PixieShade level 90

Survivor
Jan 15, 2012
4
I agree with him I may not be level 90 or nothing but I think we are getting ripped off. We need to do something about it. I stand up for all fire wizards.53

Survivor
Jan 17, 2009
1
Ya I agree that the Avalon spells were the worst out of all the rest, and that Sun Serpent should have a little something extra, but for the most part I think fire has got some decent spells. Sure, they aren't all the best or great, and I have felt cheated after seeing what they have done to storm the whole time and ice (recently), but I think fire hasn't really been cheated until now.

Defender
Jun 14, 2010
158
Dr Von on Jun 16, 2013 wrote:
lol, fire wizards aren't the only ones getting ripped off.7
here are my spells~

mana burn

this spell was created for the sole purpose of "balancing out" first-cast advantage in pvp. unlike lord of winter and celestial calendar, both of which actually steal pips and dispel and opponent's pre-selected spell, this does not and basically equates to a free cast for your opponent.

supernova

yes, it gets rid of enemy auras and does 500-odd damage. but, with its 60% success rate, a thunder snake has less chance off fizzling.

sabretooth

at rank 10, we got 1100 base damage + spirit shield to caster; total waste of pips, plus the after-effect is lamesauce. given the choice between spending 7 pips for a colossal power nova, which does 745 base damage and adds a weakness to all, and 10 pips for this joke, i'll take the power nova.

as for there being no balance spear, what about tower shields? once again, ki has left us without a way to break shields or get rid of weakness, which all schools (including fire) do have, and have had for ages. so if you want to talk about getting ripped off? make a balance wizard, then argue away.

-v.
"this spell [mana burn] was created for the sole purpose of "balancing out" first-cast advantage in pvp"

All this time I thought the "sole purpose" of mana burn was to take pips and cause damage. Silly me hehe :p

Sorry about that, I was just having some fun with ya.

Now I'll explain why your assertion makes no sense at all - even if it were true.
First turn advantage is well known. In order for a spell to "balance out first cast advantage" (those are your words), it would have to provide some benefit for the player casting 2nd.

Even IF mana burn worked the way you insist it should, you would still not be able to prevent an opponent's attack from second, as they get to cast first, remember?

If your argument is going to be "you have to cast it BEFORE the opponent gets enough pips to attack"... well we can already do that now, without the need to universally dispel people.
Mana burn, as it is, can be used to prevent build up, from 2nd position.

Furthermore, if mana burn worked the way you'd like it too, it would not balance out first-cast advantage AT ALL. In fact, you would be giving even more power to those going first who would use this spell.

There's a reason why mana burn works the way it does, and it's certainly not 'broken' as you so often refer.

Which brings me to my next point.

"lord of winter and celestial calendar, both of which actually steal pips and dispel and opponent's pre-selected spell"

I'll just make this short and sweet.

I've heard you say this many times. I did a trial with my Ice buddy. He was first cast. He used Lord on me, and not to my shock at all, I was still able to cast my attack as well. Yes, on the same turn.

Conclusion. Those spells do not dispel. You were fighting a cheating boss. I really recommend you try it for yourself against a human player sometime.

Survivor
Feb 14, 2011
6
Incinerater007 on Jun 16, 2013 wrote:
What is the deal with all the new spells coming out till for fire, everything after RoF, not one useful spell for fire whether we're talking about regular school spells (sun serpent), accessory spells (detonate, backdraft), even craftable spells (brimstone revenant). All of these, completely useless, and the only new things we've gotten in the past since November 2011. Almost 2 years now and the only new spells fire gets are spells that are only used to joke around, or just because we have them. I'm not saying all of these need to be perfect, because i know that some other schools got somewhat as useless spells since then as well, only difference is that no other school has had everything be useless since 2011 which is ridiculous! There's a chance someone will bring up mass prism, and spear spells, so i'll save you the time and tell you that every school except balance got these and that's only because there's no balance shield, and not too many people have high resist balance gear so, just don't bother. Overall I think KI needs to start giving fire some decent spells again they don't have to be as epic as efreet or RoF, but at least make sure they can and will be used in most real duels. I'm not sure about you other pyromancers but that's my opinion, and i think we're entitled to some pretty epic spells of all these kinds with the next update after all these useless jokes.
I don't think fire is getting ripped off. RoF is a great all enemy attack that you got at level 68. All schools got this at 48, 58 or 68. You say all the rest are useless. Why? Backdraft is just like supercharge except a trap instead of a blade. Sun serpent is a more powerful efreet without the weakness but does damage to all enemies. At the end. Why do you think of all schools is getting ripped off? Balance is tough to if someone puts a tower shield on once they have balance blade on they can't just remove tower shields with a wand spell like everyone else. To sum up your point you want fire to have the best spells and not let each school have advantages and disadvantages. That is how i see it at least. KingsIsle I'm sure designed this game with strengths and weaknesses for each school for a reason.

Wolf Legend 82

Digby LionTamer 65

Benjamin Battleslinger 54
And progressing to. Good luck on your questing!

Survivor
Jun 23, 2011
15
Personally, I believe this rant has some sort of truth to it. However, there are some points to be brought up:

1) Other schools got spells that are even more "useless" than ours. Don't believe me? Look at balance.
2) Sun Serpent is a perfectly usable card. I should know, I use it all the time.
3) Every card has its use, but some might be better than others.

The reason I still believe there is truth to this argument, however, is that detonate and backdraft weren't thought out as well as they could have been. Detonate should have been 2 pips in order to be used after a heck hound, giving it a wonderful use in pvp for avoiding triage. With those two extra pips, it really isn't worth using. Also, backdraft and supercharge probably should have been switched. Why give the school with DoT damage a trap that can only boost part of it? Both schools would have got a lot more out of those cards if they were switched. Not to say that storm is better with traps, but at least they can efficiently use it.

This is my opinion: fire has some awesome spells, but like all the other schools, it recently got some spells that will have to stay in the backpack.

Jason StormCaster, Level 88

Explorer
May 17, 2009
55
Supernova can be fixed with accuracy enchantments, and mana burn is a great spell when used correctly, and ya i guess sabertooth is pretty cheap, everyone gets ONE every once in a while, NOT FOUR IN A ROW THOUGH. As far as everyone saying Sun Serpent is a good spell.....PLEASE!!! Any pyromancer would rather just use a Helephant and follow that up with a Meteor Strike If they want THAT kind of damage, seeing as how that's the real equivalent of the pretty parrot with a long tailfeather...and that'll amount to WAY MORE damage!!! Not many people here seem to understand these minions in avalon on up, have way too much health for these mini blasts, following the big one...most I can get(and that's with a critical yet without blading like crazy 2-3 blades) is about 2000 which is only HALF of minions health let alone bosses. Don't say "if you don't like it don't use it" because school spells were meant to be used often which is common sense so don't act like you don't know that. No serpent is nothing like efreet because mini blasts are nothing compared to stopping the enemy's next attack. backdraft...i'd rather just use 2 feints ty very much....tower shields are everyone's problem. Now to make them better first reduce the pip amount on detonate and let it be an enchantment, or cast it then use a dot. Let brimstone revenant leave a 70% smokescreen or stun maybe...Sun serpent should leave a 90% smokescreen or add a wildfire or maybe have a plague-like effect...and backdraft not sure how it can be fixed but it is a very rarely useful spell except in special times. So ya like i said before they dont have to be perfect but they should be useful like most other school have gotten lately....

Mastermind
Sep 30, 2009
393
I personally think that efreet is the worst spell that fire has gotten but mainly just because of the animation. the only other worst spells I can think of are detonate, fire spear and power link(the damage and amount of health gained could be a little bit better). backdraft I love. sun serpent could have a little more damage but I use it anyways just because I can.

reguardless of all of that I still think that fire is the best school in my opinion.

Survivor
Sep 20, 2011
3
To me your not making a point about sun serpent or backdraft detonate yes its useless. But backdraft and Sun Serpent? To me those spells are really useful for taking out bosses especially backdraft which is exactly like supercharge just its a trap and gives more % than supercharge anyway just your making pointless points to 2 great fire spells the only thing actually sensible to see from your argument is detonate which is terrible Matthew Thunderblade Promethean

Survivor
Dec 10, 2010
22
once again learn how to use your spells your one of the most powerful schools if you just try and learn and stop trying to get everything handed to you.

Survivor
Sep 22, 2010
27
So far I have seen every school complain over spells or another school having advantages over it's own school. In my research I have found that every school has a Bad and Good that weakens them to others or gives them a good advantage. In saying this, you must realize that Balance is trying to be achieved with all schools in the game making it to where all schools have a fighting chance against everyone depending on the persons strategy in use.

Aaron Darkheart Level 70.

Geographer
Nov 26, 2011
864
I totally agree with you, not once have I used detonate, completely useless. Fire has been getting trashy spells for a while.
-Jasmine FireBlade, level 86 pyromancer

Survivor
Jun 22, 2009
26
Incinerater007 on Jun 16, 2013 wrote:
What is the deal with all the new spells coming out till for fire, everything after RoF, not one useful spell for fire whether we're talking about regular school spells (sun serpent), accessory spells (detonate, backdraft), even craftable spells (brimstone revenant). All of these, completely useless, and the only new things we've gotten in the past since November 2011. Almost 2 years now and the only new spells fire gets are spells that are only used to joke around, or just because we have them. I'm not saying all of these need to be perfect, because i know that some other schools got somewhat as useless spells since then as well, only difference is that no other school has had everything be useless since 2011 which is ridiculous! There's a chance someone will bring up mass prism, and spear spells, so i'll save you the time and tell you that every school except balance got these and that's only because there's no balance shield, and not too many people have high resist balance gear so, just don't bother. Overall I think KI needs to start giving fire some decent spells again they don't have to be as epic as efreet or RoF, but at least make sure they can and will be used in most real duels. I'm not sure about you other pyromancers but that's my opinion, and i think we're entitled to some pretty epic spells of all these kinds with the next update after all these useless jokes.
Well said Incinerator007. Are you related to James Bond 007?

How about this:

I'll trade my backdraft for mana burn

Then, I'll trade detonate for an extra 10 global resistance.

Avalon Spells for Fire have very little value.

As bad as other schools think their Avalon spells are, I would gladly trade away the fire avalon spells for theirs.

Here are my suggestions:

Limit PVP resistance to 60 maximum.

Change the valueless Avalon spells to something with value. Detonate - Make Detonate zero pips and allow it to be cast before or at anytime during the overtime. This spell has no value otherwise. As it is now, it is way too expensive (in pip cost), and can’t be used with Heck Hound.
Backdraft – Make this a blade instead of a trap. I’ve done a full pip backdraft, only to see it disappear with a zero pip cleanse charm.
Fire needs an enhanced Steal Charm, similar to enfeeble.
When Storm got disarm – destroy one blade, Fire got Steal Charm – steal one blade Storm then got an enhanced disarm: Enfeeble – destroy all blades for 3 pips. Fire should have got an enhanced Steal Charm – Steal all blades for 3 pips. That would have been logical. Call it Power Steal Charm in the same manner as Link and Power link.

Survivor
Jul 18, 2011
5
Incinerater007 on Jun 16, 2013 wrote:
What is the deal with all the new spells coming out till for fire, everything after RoF, not one useful spell for fire whether we're talking about regular school spells (sun serpent), accessory spells (detonate, backdraft), even craftable spells (brimstone revenant). All of these, completely useless, and the only new things we've gotten in the past since November 2011. Almost 2 years now and the only new spells fire gets are spells that are only used to joke around, or just because we have them. I'm not saying all of these need to be perfect, because i know that some other schools got somewhat as useless spells since then as well, only difference is that no other school has had everything be useless since 2011 which is ridiculous! There's a chance someone will bring up mass prism, and spear spells, so i'll save you the time and tell you that every school except balance got these and that's only because there's no balance shield, and not too many people have high resist balance gear so, just don't bother. Overall I think KI needs to start giving fire some decent spells again they don't have to be as epic as efreet or RoF, but at least make sure they can and will be used in most real duels. I'm not sure about you other pyromancers but that's my opinion, and i think we're entitled to some pretty epic spells of all these kinds with the next update after all these useless jokes.
As a fire wizard I totally agree with you. when you are level 38 you get to go fight this hard boss in mooshu just so you can get smokescreen that puts -40% to all enemy's. Its a waste of time! Then when you're level 28 or so you get to go on a hard quest to get scald that does 495 to all enemy's over time. To me it was a waste of time and it costs 5 pips, I would rather just put on a blade and hit them with a meteor shower for more damage!

Alex Ravenhunter level 38 magus pyromancer

Explorer
Sep 25, 2010
78
When i first got sun serpent i thought it was great, amazing my new favorite spell. It's an efreet with an unenchanted meteor strike! You could save up 6 power pips and do an efreet followed by a meteor strike, or better yet save up max power pips and do a fire dragon! I have never used detonate before, mostly because i don't do pvp. Not sure why KI thought detonate was a good idea. As for back draft, i use it when i farm or fight storm and myth to avoid the worry of getting my blades removed. So yes back draft has its uses, detonate does not. As for efreet, its awesome, not a big fan of the spell animation though. I think the spell animations for efreet and sun serpent should be swapped. While i may not like the spell itself i love the animation. As for the pyromancers asking for better spells. Please be quiet, fire has its good and its bad. I admit sun serpent and detonate aren't one of the better ones, but think about efreet, fire dragon, meteor, rain of fire. Spamming fire dragon, phoenix, and meteor strike can put a dent in people's health. Efreet is great to use on someone if you see they're getting a large amount of pips and you go first, this means they are left with a useless attack if you are certain they are to attack that round. So to those people that think fire is getting ripped off, stop being greedy. You think fire is getting is getting ripped off when its not. Make yourself a life wizard then see what you have to say. Life has one all hit attack and thats forest, granted life was to mostly heal but life needs to be able to solo things too. People always think of you as just a medic. When you first make your life wizard it can be really fun to heal, then you get up into mb and ms and it just gets old and boring and you want to attack instead of heal. Every school has ups and downs, fire in my opinion already has more ups then downs. Please just be quiet greedy pyromancers.

Scarlet Dragonpetal lvl 90

Defender
Feb 16, 2010
193
i agree. im a fire and from what i have seen. allot of the new ones are totally for laughs. i mean the volcano one with the little watermoles. i saw it on YouTube and it looks like a spell just for laughs. but balance seems to have more jokes on it than we do. i mean sabertooth... ice witch doesnt do allot of damage has better spells that do more damage without a blade. i mean up to 1000! come on. im not balance but wow. KI can do better than this. lvl 100 spells better be really great. *sarcastic* im really looking forward for the next spells for my lvl 49 wizard.

-jack skullbreeze master of fire

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2197
Simple Sorcery on Jul 13, 2013 wrote:
Well said Incinerator007. Are you related to James Bond 007?

How about this:

I'll trade my backdraft for mana burn

Then, I'll trade detonate for an extra 10 global resistance.

Avalon Spells for Fire have very little value.

As bad as other schools think their Avalon spells are, I would gladly trade away the fire avalon spells for theirs.

Here are my suggestions:

Limit PVP resistance to 60 maximum.

Change the valueless Avalon spells to something with value. Detonate - Make Detonate zero pips and allow it to be cast before or at anytime during the overtime. This spell has no value otherwise. As it is now, it is way too expensive (in pip cost), and can’t be used with Heck Hound.
Backdraft – Make this a blade instead of a trap. I’ve done a full pip backdraft, only to see it disappear with a zero pip cleanse charm.
Fire needs an enhanced Steal Charm, similar to enfeeble.
When Storm got disarm – destroy one blade, Fire got Steal Charm – steal one blade Storm then got an enhanced disarm: Enfeeble – destroy all blades for 3 pips. Fire should have got an enhanced Steal Charm – Steal all blades for 3 pips. That would have been logical. Call it Power Steal Charm in the same manner as Link and Power link.
Detonate is more useful when the people work together. The spell itself was not intended to be used by a single person. If it was, then it would have been a sun school type spell. Think about it, if the person before you successfully casts Heckhound and then you cast Detonate

Regarding Backdraft, the ONLY way for it to not be cleaned off would be to make it a sun school type spell and have it applied pre-cast. If they created it as a blade and somebody did a steal charm, people would be upset. If it was created as a trap and people used a remove trap spell, people would be upset The worst part is, if it becomes a sun school type spell, people will be upset because fire lost one of its school defining spells. So, what we can take away is that no matter how the spell works, people wont be happy with it.

Personally, I think both spells should be sun school spells, but that's my opinion

Survivor
Jun 10, 2013
2
Fire is kind of being cheated at i like most of all there spells. fire wizards cast spells that do damage per round that is what i dont like and at least fire is good in combat. it is hard for storm wizards to get life and we just only attack not give life by attacks

Alejandro Darkflame

Survivor
Aug 03, 2009
29
You think fire is getting cheated?? Take a look at all the new spells my balance is getting. I mean saber tiger is just terrible. Chimera does that much damage and its a pip less plus it has a better type coverage. The spirit shield on it is just no help at all we already have plenty of shields.

John Ashdust, Level 71

Survivor
Jul 10, 2012
15
John Ashdust on Jul 19, 2013 wrote:
You think fire is getting cheated?? Take a look at all the new spells my balance is getting. I mean saber tiger is just terrible. Chimera does that much damage and its a pip less plus it has a better type coverage. The spirit shield on it is just no help at all we already have plenty of shields.

John Ashdust, Level 71
Every school does get attacked but yeah i think fire is very powerful. I have a transcendent friend who is powerful but does need improving. Then balance is another story, I think balance is just basically all sheilds, traps, blades, and more rather than spells

~ T.S.B

Defender
Jul 02, 2009
145
Oh come on you guys! What do you want KI to give you? Some 5,000 damage spell that gives a stun and smoke screen? Fire spells aren't trash, and if you so fond of the fire school, then why are you talking smack about them? Sure, they might need a LITTLE adjusting, but fire spells are certainly not trash. Just look at the myth Avalon spell. The dimension shift spell. I don't even use my minions anymore. They're just not part of my strategy. The spell switches all hanging effects with you and the minion. I could just blade my self up in the first place. And it's 6 pips!
Then the shift spell is a bit ineffective. It sends a damage over time attack back to the caster. They'll probably just resist it anyway. I almost died trying to use that spell! I used the spell while fighting a goblin, and right before I cast it, the DoT disappeared, and I still cast it. Then I lost 4 pips. Then, another spell I find absolutely useless for myth is shatter. I might as well just cast earthquake. It does even more, by removing blades as well as shields, AND does damage! Shatter is not my favorite right now. If its for pvp, I can kind of understand, but I don't pvp. Diego should sell shatter, myth shouldn't get it. I'd rather have backdraft.
To all those complainers, try playing every other school, THEN you'll see your not the only ones who get a couple bad spells. And don't be ungrateful. Find a use for those spells your hating on, and then give them a chance. Everyone gets their advantages and disadvantages. Deal with it.