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Changes to Critical Hit and Critical Block system

AuthorMessage
Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
874
I am amazed by how many people here are missing the bigger point; the issue here isn't whether you like this new change to the critical system, or not, it's how it was done. Customers were presented with "critical" in Celestia, and even though myself and many others found it lackluster at best, it is what we were given. Now fast forward several years, after we adjusted to this system, made purchases around it, farmed by it, and centered a lot of our time around it, and suddenly the rules change, and negates all of our hard work, and expenditures. Essentially it is a case of the customers being taken for granted, even if some don't realize it. Change is often needed in these type games, but there is a right and wrong way to do them. Negating cash investments, and countless hours of members utilizing the system, is not the way to invoke change. Critical like many things here needed issues addressed, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. KI you have created a wonderful game, but you are seriously mismanaging it at the moment. If you want to ensure its continued health, then please listen carefully. I addressed this in another post, but i will reiterate the points again:
1) It should be obvious by now a mistake was made with how this system was implemented. Temporarily take it down, and go back to the old system until a better system can be implemented that does no take your paying customers for granted.
2) Separate Critical damage from heals.
3) Separate PvP/PvE once and for all.

If you do these 3 simple things, you will have taken a huge step in restoring the faith of many of your customers.

Explorer
Jun 27, 2014
82
Intrepidatius on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
I am amazed by how many people here are missing the bigger point; the issue here isn't whether you like this new change to the critical system, or not, it's how it was done. Customers were presented with "critical" in Celestia, and even though myself and many others found it lackluster at best, it is what we were given. Now fast forward several years, after we adjusted to this system, made purchases around it, farmed by it, and centered a lot of our time around it, and suddenly the rules change, and negates all of our hard work, and expenditures. Essentially it is a case of the customers being taken for granted, even if some don't realize it. Change is often needed in these type games, but there is a right and wrong way to do them. Negating cash investments, and countless hours of members utilizing the system, is not the way to invoke change. Critical like many things here needed issues addressed, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. KI you have created a wonderful game, but you are seriously mismanaging it at the moment. If you want to ensure its continued health, then please listen carefully. I addressed this in another post, but i will reiterate the points again:
1) It should be obvious by now a mistake was made with how this system was implemented. Temporarily take it down, and go back to the old system until a better system can be implemented that does no take your paying customers for granted.
2) Separate Critical damage from heals.
3) Separate PvP/PvE once and for all.

If you do these 3 simple things, you will have taken a huge step in restoring the faith of many of your customers.
I completely agree with you here. I understand Ki felt a need to change the system although from mostly just doing PVE I didnt find fault in the old system. If something is not working as intended as has got to a point it needs changed to improve by all means do so. The problems for me with introducing this system were
1) Making a change this late in the game without adjusting previous worlds to compensate for new system
2) Making such a drastic change to stats which almost ruined existing gear, Hades sets complete with wand for instance only offer around 4% critical and 15% block
3)Introducing a system which actually means you can get critical immune under the old system regardless of your block it was still able to have a critical land on it
4)with new system if i critical sacrifice or dark pact etc I will actually critical hit myself, this has been a long standing issue with these spells although you are not meant to be able to critical hit yourself if your block is low you do critical hit yourself, Having this system in place means unless you are critical immune you can still critical hit yourself using this system (please fix this.).
I am not sure how you would fix this mess to be equitable for all players or at least to a point where we can get some sense of fair play. Obviously some middle ground must be possible, PVP and PVE are totally different enviroments, each with their own requirements what can work well in one doesnt always work well in the other. I understand allot of work would be required to fully separate the 2, but honestly it would make more sense and be fairer overall. Those who wish to PVP have as much right to get a good system as those who PVE and vice versa. I really hope you will find a solution soon, even if a temporary fix to block in the meantime is all that can be done quickly.

Survivor
Jun 30, 2013
38
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
The truly casual player, the player with no crafted gear, no dungeon gear, no farmed gear etc had almost no chance to block under the old system. It was similarly impossible for them to critical.on mobs or bosses. This new system gives the truly casual player the potential to do just that.
Does their gear give higher than 1% block and considerably low critical though?

Survivor
Jun 30, 2013
38
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
The old system was fast heading to where players would have 100% critical and 100% block simultaneously. In order to offer bosses to challenge said players we would see bosses with stats approaching similar levels. Bosses would have to have higher health pools, more disruptive utilities etc. The casual player simply would not have been able to exist in this type of environment.
There are many more ways to harden up our battles. From a remarkable health increase to increasing the block chance (in terms of old system, so that they at least have a chance to block the crit monsters) to adding more cheats or slightly enchanted spells. The AI of Polaris was a good step among the many others that should be taken if they reconsider critical.

Survivor
Jun 23, 2011
4
In my point of view, the update was truly needed sooner after the release of Darkmoor. The critical monsters in pvp who can kill someone with a single wild bolt before they even get a turn wasn't fair. That being said, They might add some block rating or lower the critical rating of in a PvE environment. Other than that, it is a sensible change and levels out all confusion of the topic.

lvl 101

Delver
Dec 15, 2009
202
I WOULD be ok if it affected Avalon/Azteca bosses. That just did not happen, they are still criticaling the same, and it feels like MORE than before the update. It just feels like a nerf on us, wizards.

Hunter LifeBreeze Level 79

Survivor
Mar 25, 2014
18
Nordic Champion on Nov 27, 2015 wrote:
Just wanted to say that
A) I am glad to see KI is reading this thread
B) Tuscon Wiz's comments are great and I agree
C) I had to wonder why there are so many wizards who are REALLY mad (at KI) about "all the crowns and work to get gear or to level pets in anticipation of the new world". Whose fault is that? No one told you to spend all that time and effort on pet training or farming gear. You did that yourself. So if you are mad, be mad at yourself for time and money wasted. Maybe before the next big update you will just wait and see what KI comes out with like a lot of wizards do.
First off, your post made me laugh for almost a good five minutes. Your point C is shaded by the fact that you think you'll be able to survive the entire game without touching the bank to either improve your stats or your pet or even farm for that matter. I hate to break it to you but you're going to have to spend to get something one way or another. If it's not through packs then it's from the membership fee that comes out fatefully.

In fact, one can't post here without having paid for something. So excuse us for being a bit peeved that the money we spend every month to you know, keep this game running, feels like we're literally throwing it into the fire and watching it burn for kicks.

That being said, I adore W101 and have a ton of fun playing it and crafting my wizards and whatnot. But one thing I don't love is bleeding money. I'll pay for things that I feel are worth it and sadly this change is really making me rethink if it's still worth my hard earn bucks. Crown sales? Oh I buy them almost every time but this time around I scoffed at the screen.


Explorer
Nov 17, 2013
93
Scarlet Stardust on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
First off, your post made me laugh for almost a good five minutes. Your point C is shaded by the fact that you think you'll be able to survive the entire game without touching the bank to either improve your stats or your pet or even farm for that matter. I hate to break it to you but you're going to have to spend to get something one way or another. If it's not through packs then it's from the membership fee that comes out fatefully.

In fact, one can't post here without having paid for something. So excuse us for being a bit peeved that the money we spend every month to you know, keep this game running, feels like we're literally throwing it into the fire and watching it burn for kicks.

That being said, I adore W101 and have a ton of fun playing it and crafting my wizards and whatnot. But one thing I don't love is bleeding money. I'll pay for things that I feel are worth it and sadly this change is really making me rethink if it's still worth my hard earn bucks. Crown sales? Oh I buy them almost every time but this time around I scoffed at the screen.

You go girl! I agree 100%

Survivor
Oct 01, 2014
41
Dustin Skullcatche... on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
In my point of view, the update was truly needed sooner after the release of Darkmoor. The critical monsters in pvp who can kill someone with a single wild bolt before they even get a turn wasn't fair. That being said, They might add some block rating or lower the critical rating of in a PvE environment. Other than that, it is a sensible change and levels out all confusion of the topic.

lvl 101
I guess you haven't just seen it yet. But since you can still get 100% they will still be going first round critical wild bolts. So nothing has changed there.

Historian
Jun 19, 2010
653
Intrepidatius on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
I am amazed by how many people here are missing the bigger point; the issue here isn't whether you like this new change to the critical system, or not, it's how it was done. Customers were presented with "critical" in Celestia, and even though myself and many others found it lackluster at best, it is what we were given. Now fast forward several years, after we adjusted to this system, made purchases around it, farmed by it, and centered a lot of our time around it, and suddenly the rules change, and negates all of our hard work, and expenditures. Essentially it is a case of the customers being taken for granted, even if some don't realize it. Change is often needed in these type games, but there is a right and wrong way to do them. Negating cash investments, and countless hours of members utilizing the system, is not the way to invoke change. Critical like many things here needed issues addressed, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. KI you have created a wonderful game, but you are seriously mismanaging it at the moment. If you want to ensure its continued health, then please listen carefully. I addressed this in another post, but i will reiterate the points again:
1) It should be obvious by now a mistake was made with how this system was implemented. Temporarily take it down, and go back to the old system until a better system can be implemented that does no take your paying customers for granted.
2) Separate Critical damage from heals.
3) Separate PvP/PvE once and for all.

If you do these 3 simple things, you will have taken a huge step in restoring the faith of many of your customers.
The change to the critical and blocking should have not been done with the release of Polaris content. It could have been done before or after; but not during. This forum posting has over 9 pages of comments, with most folks unanimous in their thoughts and feelings about the adjusted down changes. And if the system is here to stay, than adjust up all our gear, pets and enhancers to mimic achievable results and outcomes prior to the change being implemented. This way, you system can change, but with everything else balancing up along the way. Bottom line; if its not broken, there's no need to fix it!

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3171
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
Their chance to get a critical through helps the truly casual player player. The absolute chance of blocking also helps. If you quest through Polaris you will notice that dropped auctionable gear(the kind casual players tend to use) offers huge block- improving their net chance to block criticals. 100% critical and block is still achievable but not without sacrifices in other areas.
please, tell me again how my stats being sliced in half is helpful~ i'm listening.

i am a casual player, not hardcore by any stretch~ i play (or at least i used to) for fun, not as a full-time job or to have the best of everything all the time; sometimes, it's just nice to take a time-out after a long, crappy day at the office, although this game has become more work than my actual job and ki doesn't even pay me.

before the update, i had one wizard with darkmoor gear; she had 64% chance to critical and 72% to block.
according the new system, i now have 25% critical and 44% to block.

my death and life wizards are in ww/kh crafted combos and storm has ww hat and robe with darkmoor boots, and their numbers are even worse. i need gear i can survive in, not more subpar garbage that gives a huge boost to one stat but requires a massive sacrifice to the others.

these stats are anemic and in no way acceptable. this "update" has absolutely destroyed pve... and solo players, and casual players, and defensive builds. the gear we farmed ages for, and the pets that we spent hours training, are now useless~ but i'm not mad about it, because i somehow expected that ki would pull a stunt like this.

i haven't played in over a month; i don't want to play anymore, and i will not be questing in polaris at all until this is fixed.

you're killing me, kingsisle; it's been fun, but i have a feeling that this is the end of the line for me.

-von

Explorer
Sep 26, 2012
59
Intrepidatius on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
I am amazed by how many people here are missing the bigger point; the issue here isn't whether you like this new change to the critical system, or not, it's how it was done. Customers were presented with "critical" in Celestia, and even though myself and many others found it lackluster at best, it is what we were given. Now fast forward several years, after we adjusted to this system, made purchases around it, farmed by it, and centered a lot of our time around it, and suddenly the rules change, and negates all of our hard work, and expenditures. Essentially it is a case of the customers being taken for granted, even if some don't realize it. Change is often needed in these type games, but there is a right and wrong way to do them. Negating cash investments, and countless hours of members utilizing the system, is not the way to invoke change. Critical like many things here needed issues addressed, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. KI you have created a wonderful game, but you are seriously mismanaging it at the moment. If you want to ensure its continued health, then please listen carefully. I addressed this in another post, but i will reiterate the points again:
1) It should be obvious by now a mistake was made with how this system was implemented. Temporarily take it down, and go back to the old system until a better system can be implemented that does no take your paying customers for granted.
2) Separate Critical damage from heals.
3) Separate PvP/PvE once and for all.

If you do these 3 simple things, you will have taken a huge step in restoring the faith of many of your customers.
I agree to these 3 things to do and I will add something I also already said :
both old & new systems are broken in their own way and instead of arguing endlessly about which one is the best, KingsIsle and the community should help each other to think about how to set a definitive system that can work forever

or at least define one system and stick with it for good : there may always be some flaws but also ways to play and equip our wizards to deal with that, like we did with the previous system
but if the system changes every now and then, players will still be confused, angry, etc

though, everyone has to fully understand how the system works and we miss some very simple tools like :
- an official conversion table to show exactly how any Crit/Block points turn into % for each level
- an official statement about the presence or not of a ratio between Critical against Block and how it can be useful to let the system last, especially for PvP
- a workgroup thread with the developers in charge of the system at KingsIsle to only discuss about improvements and alternatives to fix this once for all

window.onbeforeunload = function() {}

Geographer
Dec 16, 2009
980
Mindy GoldenHeart on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
Does their gear give higher than 1% block and considerably low critical though?
THe gear acquired simply questing in Polaris gives high critical and block stats but comes at a cost.

Geographer
Dec 16, 2009
980
rocket030 on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
I've seen and won Polaris gear. Except for some of the things like decks, amulets, etc it's pretty much just auction gear as you said. And you give up all other stats for that block. Also previous worlds have better usable gear. If you want something to sell you can just go to halfang. And what about the previous worlds? You seem to be trying to stretch it on the benefits to a "casual" player.
I agree that the previous worlds need to be adjusted to work around the system. This is not a case of the system failing, but rather a failure on KI's part to adjust the prior worlds. Polaris itself works great with the system and proves that it can indeed work, and work fairly well. If the previous worlds are adjusted to work within this system then it will last for at least another 20-30 lvls.

Geographer
Dec 16, 2009
980
Mindy GoldenHeart on Nov 30, 2015 wrote:
There are many more ways to harden up our battles. From a remarkable health increase to increasing the block chance (in terms of old system, so that they at least have a chance to block the crit monsters) to adding more cheats or slightly enchanted spells. The AI of Polaris was a good step among the many others that should be taken if they reconsider critical.
Exactly and the increases such as a massive health upgrade and increased critical block would further serve to drive casual players away. You will notice in Polaris that except for 2 key bosses(Baba Yaga and Rasputin), most of the bosses there actually have lower health buffers. Health buffers similar to what we would have seen in Avalon days. I believe they addressed the Polaris bosses in the correct way. Rather than simply upping their health buffer and stats in massive ways they actually improved monster AI and added utility-leading to a very enjoyable Polaris experience.

Geographer
Dec 16, 2009
980
Angel of Solitude on Nov 29, 2015 wrote:
Your post made me laugh.

"C) I had to wonder why there are so many wizards who are REALLY mad (at KI) about 'all the crowns and work to get gear or to level pets in anticipation of the new world.' Whose fault is that? No one told you to spend all that time and effort on pet training or farming. You did that yourself." Your post is a joke. What have you been doing all this time? Standing around all day in the Commons?

Your statement is full of ignorance, and you have little to no idea of what you speak of. Try going through the entire world of Polaris without gear and without a pet. Let me know how that turns out.

I noticed that all the players who are fine with the new system and don't understand why most players are complaining are the same players who had no critical/block to begin with and never even bothered farming for gear.
Speak for Yourself-I am fine with the system and I have spent thousands of dollars on the game, thousands of hours playing and farming the game and had some of the best stats in the game. Rather than bashing the system I went ahead and adapted and once again have some of the best stats in the game.

Historian
Nov 28, 2010
613
Nordic Champion on Nov 27, 2015 wrote:
Just wanted to say that
A) I am glad to see KI is reading this thread
B) Tuscon Wiz's comments are great and I agree
C) I had to wonder why there are so many wizards who are REALLY mad (at KI) about "all the crowns and work to get gear or to level pets in anticipation of the new world". Whose fault is that? No one told you to spend all that time and effort on pet training or farming gear. You did that yourself. So if you are mad, be mad at yourself for time and money wasted. Maybe before the next big update you will just wait and see what KI comes out with like a lot of wizards do.
I had to wonder why there are so many wizards who are REALLY mad (at KI) about "all the crowns and work to get gear or to level pets in anticipation of the new world". Whose fault is that?No one told you to spend all that time and effort on pet training or farming gear. You did that yourself. So if you are mad, be mad at yourself for time and money wasted.

Point taken. That's why I cancelled my subscription. I don't like making mistakes. I'll stop spending money on the game so that I don't compound my regrets. It'll be nice to not have to be mad at myself.

I thought KI was trying to generate revenue by offering "products" and services that people were willing to pay for, but here all this time that wasn't the point. Thank you for enlightening us.

Delver
Feb 28, 2012
232
On my Death character(level 110):
1. Enemies who "can" crit ALWAYS do.
2. I never block crit even though my crit block rating is 300+

Tell me again how that is "more fair" seeing how I almost never crit, and when I do, it is always blocked?

Defender
Aug 11, 2013
115
seriously? you need to tweak the percentages for the blocks and crits.
I spent a LOT of time and something like $400 worth of crowns getting my 3 main wizards to where they are since I started playing two years ago. Crowns for gear, crowns for packs, for elixirs for energy and for henchman[which allow me to solo most of my play even when I shouldn't] With the new system for example...I'm not getting crits when I should. and blocking far less when the boss crits, which seems more often. I'm still enjoying myself for the most part mind you but it's become a lot more...frustrating.

Defender
Nov 24, 2012
124
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 1, 2015 wrote:
Speak for Yourself-I am fine with the system and I have spent thousands of dollars on the game, thousands of hours playing and farming the game and had some of the best stats in the game. Rather than bashing the system I went ahead and adapted and once again have some of the best stats in the game.
Speak for myself? I was voicing out my own opinion and my point of view on this matter. I'm not expecting others to view things the same way I do.

I don't care if you like the new system.

I have also spent time and money on this game, just like everyone else—what's your point?

You have failed to realize that not everyone can adapt to the new system.

Before you quote my statement, make yourself clear on what it is that you are arguing about. How does my statement reference to anything you just mentioned?

Survivor
Aug 31, 2011
7
It's a shame all the amazing hard work that went into creating Polaris is being overshadowed by this critical/block issue (which I know is important). But just for the record, great job! It really is light-hearted and beautiful to go through.

Survivor
Sep 15, 2012
45
I've noticed that my ratio of criticals landed on bosses in the old system compared to criticals landed on bosses in the new system for the higher levels isn't too much different. By that I mean in Khrysalis and up and that's taking into account the times I would critical and the boss would block. Aside from that, I think I've had more criticals land on me since the Polaris update than I experienced in the entire few years since I began my wizard. Something has definitely got to be done about the critical block for sure. Although, I'm disappointed when I go to help lower levels get through dungeons and defeat bosses that I rarely land a critical. There should be a power difference with regard to critical and block between higher levels and lower levels and I'm just not seeing it. The new systems was quite pre-mature. Still waiting on news of the adjustments that the professors have been saying will happen. I still stand firmly on my opinion that they should make an Official statement addressing this, maybe in their next broadcast. Some of the fights I've had to do were hard to begin with and the difficulty has been compounded greatly with this new system. I get that this is not a new complaint and rather than just being another complaining person, I think it is important to keep reminding KI that there are still many players not happy with the way things are at the moment. Still hoping for changes soon with my fingers crossed. On a positive note, I love Polaris. What a beautiful design and little subtle references to Russia are sometimes just hilarious not to mention the very obvious ones. The battle music! :) It would seem that some of those NPC's are French though?

Prodigious

Geographer
Dec 16, 2009
980
Dr Von on Dec 1, 2015 wrote:
please, tell me again how my stats being sliced in half is helpful~ i'm listening.

i am a casual player, not hardcore by any stretch~ i play (or at least i used to) for fun, not as a full-time job or to have the best of everything all the time; sometimes, it's just nice to take a time-out after a long, crappy day at the office, although this game has become more work than my actual job and ki doesn't even pay me.

before the update, i had one wizard with darkmoor gear; she had 64% chance to critical and 72% to block.
according the new system, i now have 25% critical and 44% to block.

my death and life wizards are in ww/kh crafted combos and storm has ww hat and robe with darkmoor boots, and their numbers are even worse. i need gear i can survive in, not more subpar garbage that gives a huge boost to one stat but requires a massive sacrifice to the others.

these stats are anemic and in no way acceptable. this "update" has absolutely destroyed pve... and solo players, and casual players, and defensive builds. the gear we farmed ages for, and the pets that we spent hours training, are now useless~ but i'm not mad about it, because i somehow expected that ki would pull a stunt like this.

i haven't played in over a month; i don't want to play anymore, and i will not be questing in polaris at all until this is fixed.

you're killing me, kingsisle; it's been fun, but i have a feeling that this is the end of the line for me.

-von
I'm sorry Dr Von but you are not a casual player. Any player with a self-confirmed dozens of DM runs, perfect pets, and farmed/crafted gear no longer falls into that category. The players I refer to as casual are the players with an adult pet. Players who buy their gear in the bazaar and mix with dropped gear in the world. Those players would simply not been able to survive the newer worlds had the current system been allowed to progress. As for how fun the new system is. Try questing in Polaris- the system works absolutely beautifully there and PvE there is far from ruined. As for "anemic" stats- I have actually already posted threads showing the kinds of stats you can achieve: Far more than necessary to merely survive-which seems to be your main concern.

Balanced PvE Gear-lvl 110.

Geographer
Dec 16, 2009
980
Angel of Solitude on Dec 1, 2015 wrote:
Speak for myself? I was voicing out my own opinion and my point of view on this matter. I'm not expecting others to view things the same way I do.

I don't care if you like the new system.

I have also spent time and money on this game, just like everyone else—what's your point?

You have failed to realize that not everyone can adapt to the new system.

Before you quote my statement, make yourself clear on what it is that you are arguing about. How does my statement reference to anything you just mentioned?
The statement I addressed in my response is this:

Angel of Solitude- I noticed that all the players who are fine with the new system and don't understand why most players are complaining are the same players who had no critical/block to begin with and never even bothered farming for gear.

My statement's purpose was to point out to you that no-everyone who enjoys this system fit the description that you tried to blanket the opposition with.

Survivor
Oct 01, 2014
41
Eric Stormbringer on Dec 1, 2015 wrote:
I agree that the previous worlds need to be adjusted to work around the system. This is not a case of the system failing, but rather a failure on KI's part to adjust the prior worlds. Polaris itself works great with the system and proves that it can indeed work, and work fairly well. If the previous worlds are adjusted to work within this system then it will last for at least another 20-30 lvls.
The system is hard capped at 100% so unless KI stops putting out new gear with better block or critical each 10 levels it will continue to be a 100% block and resist system. Someone who sets up then modified their gear around one or the other at 100% will be seeing very little difference in game play. But for those with gear that at one time was a mix having some block and critical have been hit the hardest. To me that is the fail.

When you say KI failed on adjusting the system for the lower worlds that is why people are asking at least temporarily change it back. Even a idea of when they will have changes in place may help. Next you say this is only good for a short time. Then this wasn't a real fix and shouldn't have been done until they had one. If everything is going to have be changed again as you say then that would be another fail.