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Are we taking this too seriously?

AuthorMessage
Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
Hunter and Joe,
I see you both blaming WCP for lots of things. Blaming others is a common human condition. I fail to see how cleaning up the game does anything bad. If the problem people choose to go somewhere else good riddance. In the long run it is better for Wizard101 IMO.

The members of WCP try to be very careful when reporting. KI is the one dishing out sanctions. Their stepping up and doing that suggests they appreciate our help. If we were Vigilantes as you suggest WE would be sanctioned. I don't know of a single WCP being sanctioned.

People leave the game for any number of reasons. School has started. People get bored and yes some get banned. But, people who get sanctioned deserve it.

As for the game being for kids not adults, please explain why KI is marketing it to families. Why do they say all ages play it and actively market it to ADULTS if you are right?

Megan Frostriver WCP

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Lion359 wrote:
Goldendragon18,

"The "Wizard City Protectors" are not a vigilante group. We are a group of concerned Parents, Grand Parents, Aunts, Uncles, Brothers and Sisters that have said we have had enough. WE DO NOT generate hate."

I completely disagree, you are clearly and without question a Vigilante group.
The group itself may not generate hate, but they have generated hate in the younger groups that play this game.
My Dad is no where at old as you, and with him being a different generation, maybe that's why you see things differently. Who knows, that's for you and him to discuss, not me.
You may not like what I posted, but I see it as it is. Older people may not,
but then just like Hunterray09 is trying to tell you in his last post, it does generate an issue.
Now you may well have shut down this type of chat in certain areas, but it will still go on in other areas. You will just drive it underground, until some whiner complains again. Then the Vigilante group will go after that area with their witch hunt. All Vigilante groups are bad, as old as you are you should know that.


No, we are not a vigilante group. The only ones who would have reason to think we're vigilantes are usually the rule-breakers, who want to curse all they want and not get reported for it... How convenient is that?

And, since you've decided to bring age into it, perhaps you should know that not just adults feel this way~ there are kids among our numbers, and I was a teenager myself, not that long ago; the difference is, my generation was taught to respect others.

Oh, and we don't ban anyone~ KI does. So don't blame us, just because you're embarrassed and would rather cry false report than take responsibility for your actions.

Lion359 wrote:
To mom2mykidzcrcj,

It's not you or people like you that I am complaining about, but once a Vigilante group starts, it always generates more and more problems.
I respect those that are trying to clean up the terms used, but after all, it's a game with kids. The filters are in place to stop the younger kids from seeing this type of abuse. How can the under 18 years even see this stuff if the filters in place.? Bottom line, Hunterrays09 last post says a lot, if you can read into it. This game was not designed just for adults, but really more for us.


Once again, we are not a vigilante group. And no, it's not "a kids' game"~ it's a family game; when you're working with a multi-age environment, there are bound to be conflicts, but this is not an adults vs. kids issue.The WCP group spans all ages~ kids, teenagers, adults... we're all in this together, and we've all had enough.

We are parents and grandparents; we are aunts and uncles, older siblings, and other relatives who want the Spiral to be safe for kids again. Yes, there are filters in place, but that doesn't mean that parents are paying attention to what their kids do online~ the troublemakers likely have inattentive parents, or full/unsupervised run of the internet. It's not our job to 'parent' these kids, but it IS our job- and responsibility- to keep them from hurting others, especially people we care about.

My buddy-list is full, and my in-game friends are of various ages as well. One particular friend is a young girl around my nephew's age, and she has open chat (which many kids under 18 do have)~ she's very mature, doesn't abuse the system, and is generally pleasant to be around... it would break my heart, if she lost her chat privileges because her peers couldn't control their potty mouths... or worse, became a victim of the harassment that takes place in the Spiral on a daily basis.

No child, teenager, or adult EVER deserves to be the victim of slurs, profanity-riddled insults and unwelcome sexual advances. I've been a victim of in-game sexual harassment and, for that reason, I will always report as I see fit; what place does that sort of behaviour have in the Spiral, anyway? Sure, it happens all the time in the real world, but that doesn't make it okay.

I am a Wizard City protector, and I'm not going anywhere.

"El Veeb"
archmage sorceress, wizarding aunt, and proud Wizard City Protector.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
QueQueg wrote:
Lion359 writes: Getting back to the WC group, Why do I say they are an problem, because it is fact, based on both of my younger brother's input
and the input of others. The WC group has generate more hate in the
game and more conflict than any disagreement over a op spell.


Many of the kids complain and say things, because they can't do what they want to do in the game, which is break the rules without consequences. We aren't the ones generating hate, it's the offenders that create it themselves, because they don't care about anyone but themselves, and when someone steps up and says "we're not going to take it any more", it's always against the person or persons taking action by reporting the rule breakers.

Lion359 writes: The reporting has gone to an extreme, and people are just jumping on the band-wagon, to be part of the witch hunt, which this has become. It is for this reason that I completely disagree with the formation of any Vigilance committee.

The reporting has not gone to an extreme. The offenders are the ones who are extreme in their behavior. Just because some of us jumped in to do reporting, which KI gives us the tools to do so, doesn't mean we're a vigilante group. Because of our publicity, others in the game are reporting more frequently. Before, people were scared to report, because of the possible backlash from the offenders. No ones on a witch hunt. We just expect people who break the rules to take responsibility for their actions.

Lion359 writes: ..... old people don't understand the new generation of kids and don't like it.

The new generation of kids? You mean, the "I want it now" generation? The generation that has no respect for others, or their community, or their parents, or for the rules of the game? Sure, us "old people" don't like it. Who wouldn't? I will say, there are new generation kids that I know that can't stand the way the others in their generation behave.

hunteray09 writes: Ever since WCP came, I have felt non stop annoyance. I am being rude I know, but I have to say this. They make the game a little better but it's human nature. They take it too seriously and make the gae a lot less enjoyable. Me being a mature teenager do not take part in bad behavior but cannot express how annoying it is to see people only talk about this topic. THIS IS A GAME. NOT FACEBOOK. Every game has it's bad players. You have affected the game entirely. I am sorry for my rudeness. No one even plays the game anymore. When I ask for help, most people are talking in the commons or at houses, and it is so hard to level up now a days since people never do anymore quests. Have you seen how empty celestia, Zafaria, and Avalon can be? What about Marleybone and Mooshu? Becuase this game has become Facebook.

Is the annoyance because of us? How is it we are annoying? Because we report? The ones who are annoying are the ones that bully, swear, say racist remarks, enact inappropriate sexual behavior, and other bad behavior that does not belong in the game. It is THEIR problem, not ours.

If "no one plays the game anymore", it's because of themselves, not the WCP. Socializing has become the norm (long before the WCP), by hanging out in locations in the Spiral with their online wizard friends. The only thing we've affected in the game .... is making it 'clean and safe for everyone'.

Yeah, every game has it's bad players, however, we're taking a stand in THIS game. We want the game to keep its E10 rating. We want it safe for everyone. The bad behavior has gone on too long, and it's time these abusers take responsibility for their own actions.

I can't tell you how many times I hear "I was muted by the reporters, and I did nothing wrong". The WCP does NOT mute anyone. KI does. KI looks at the chat logs and determines what sanctions take place. If someone was muted or banned, they did something wrong. They broke the rules. Period. They need to stop blaming everyone else, but themselves.


QueQueg,

Spoken just like someone that doesn't understand what is happening here at all. Plus you completely sidestepped the entire posting, you only stated what you wanted to state. Which did not really reply to me at all, you missed the whole posting of Hunteray09, Tabby714 (sorry to have added your name here) and me.

Let me make it clear, so you can understand it,,,,, Any Vigilante group is a problem and unneeded, for any reason at all. We have police in our Society for a reason, and KI has their Filters. The police do their job as well as they can, yes a very difficult job. KI does their Filtering job as well as they can, and I exepect they are improving as they can.

When people jump in to Help the police by taking the Law into their own hands, they are WRONG... what don't you get about that?
No different than the Wizard City Group, they are Wrong, it's that simple.

Do you really think that the Wizard City Group will stop what's going on, please, be real?

Or do you expect that this will just change realms, and go underground?
Or do you expect that all the new people that join will read these post and say, Oh my!!!,,.............Please, please..... give me a break.

People are suppose to be here playing a game, but we have a group doing nothing but a witch hunt, cause kids are using the same language that they use on the bus, and after school, when they are away from adults.
The same bully tactics go on, believe me, I know well, I have two younger brothers. Believe me, I have dropped more than one kid for it.

Shielding kids from this in the game, when it's going to happen in real life,,, are you guys real?

It's better that a kid learns how to deal with this in the game, and then in real life, or don't you get that. Seems pretty simple to me, I get it, why don't you?

Every Generation is different from the one before, each has it's own unique way, and this is part of this Generation, like it or not.
Yes, just like my Grandfather not liking the Hippies Dippies as he calls them, same thing.

When I played the game, when this was going on, I just talked to my brothers. Explained things to them, and educated them on how to deal with it. They have both learned how to do with this stuff, and how to reply.
Sometimes they switch realms, or leave the area, or just ignore it.
The same stuff goes on in real life, how can you people not know this?

GD18 talked about the Military playing this game, no different from any other family, I know. My Dad was in the Military when I was small, along with my Grandfather and Great Grandfather. One was in Vietnam, the other was in WWII flying B-17G aircrafts. Both of my Uncles where in the Military, with their families.

Lets get back on line here, the Vigilanties are simply wrong, no matter what the case,,, simple wrong.

Joe.


Explorer
Apr 05, 2012
63
Hmm. Okay. I have read every post on this thread. I can assume that those that are saying "Wizard City Protectors are bad for the game" are very likely the same people getting reported.

Only my family know the reason I sought this group. I will type it here, for anyone interested. If you don't care, just skip over my entire post.

I was playing with my niece (age 14) and nephew (age 10), and we all wanted to dye our clothes to match. We didn't know at the time about the issues in Wu dye shop, and happened to have been placed in Wu when we started playing that afternoon.
While there, I got caught up in a nice conversation with someone named Steven, and we talked for awhile.
All of a sudden I was approached by someone, calling me a 'dirty *N* reporter', and that I should 'get the *F* off the game'. There were other things they said to me, but I was to busy trying to get my sister's kids out of the room or off the game.

Why did they start calling me names, uttering racist slurs and swearing at me? Because I was talking to someone they didn't like.
My sister tried to put them on text chat, but people were swearing by using two or more safe words, that when spoken out loud sound exactly like the word they were masking.
Then we tried menu chat. That is the worst punishment imaginable for a family of sesquipedalians (a person who uses big words).

Since that day, I have made a point to spend a few hours a night - after the daily chores are finished and the kids are in bed.
My niece has asked me every day since the middle of May if she can play again. It breaks my heart when I have to say no, usually as I'm clicking the report button for someone saying the N word or F word for the third time.

It broke my heart even more tonight when she didn't come in to ask when she gets to play again. I wondered why, and she told me 'the game will never be clean enough for kids like us to enjoy.' then she continued drawing.

Now is anyone going to tell me again that it's the fault of WCP that there are people swearing?
If you go back to the old, old posts - I mean posts from 2008 and 2009 - you will see people were complaining about swearing even back then. It took that long for someone to finally stand up, put a foot down, and say enough is enough.

If anyone wants PROOF that it's been going on a long time, it's implied here, and posted here, here, and here. All dated May 5, 2009 and OLDER

That is just four messages from as far back as the forum keeps messages for. The bad language didn't start because of WCP. On the contrary, WCP started because of the bad language.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2186
vollans wrote:
Hmm. Okay. I have read every post on this thread. I can assume that those that are saying "Wizard City Protectors are bad for the game" are very likely the same people getting reported.

Only my family know the reason I sought this group. I will type it here, for anyone interested. If you don't care, just skip over my entire post.

I was playing with my niece (age 14) and nephew (age 10), and we all wanted to dye our clothes to match. We didn't know at the time about the issues in Wu dye shop, and happened to have been placed in Wu when we started playing that afternoon.
While there, I got caught up in a nice conversation with someone named Steven, and we talked for awhile.
All of a sudden I was approached by someone, calling me a 'dirty *N* reporter', and that I should 'get the *F* off the game'. There were other things they said to me, but I was to busy trying to get my sister's kids out of the room or off the game.

Why did they start calling me names, uttering racist slurs and swearing at me? Because I was talking to someone they didn't like.
My sister tried to put them on text chat, but people were swearing by using two or more safe words, that when spoken out loud sound exactly like the word they were masking.
Then we tried menu chat. That is the worst punishment imaginable for a family of sesquipedalians (a person who uses big words).

Since that day, I have made a point to spend a few hours a night - after the daily chores are finished and the kids are in bed.
My niece has asked me every day since the middle of May if she can play again. It breaks my heart when I have to say no, usually as I'm clicking the report button for someone saying the N word or F word for the third time.

It broke my heart even more tonight when she didn't come in to ask when she gets to play again. I wondered why, and she told me 'the game will never be clean enough for kids like us to enjoy.' then she continued drawing.

Now is anyone going to tell me again that it's the fault of WCP that there are people swearing?
If you go back to the old, old posts - I mean posts from 2008 and 2009 - you will see people were complaining about swearing even back then. It took that long for someone to finally stand up, put a foot down, and say enough is enough.

If anyone wants PROOF that it's been going on a long time, it's implied here, and posted here, here, and here. All dated May 5, 2009 and OLDER

That is just four messages from as far back as the forum keeps messages for. The bad language didn't start because of WCP. On the contrary, WCP started because of the bad language.


Vollons, Thank you so very much for this post.

I am so sorry that your niece and nephew have not been able to play because of all the trash that is going on in the game. These players do seem to find a way to use the most innocent of words and turn them to something dirty.

It is not right that those of us that do not use this kind of behavior have to downgrade our chat to accommodate those that do. Many of us do think that for some of the younger players having chat, even filtered also helps them learn to spell correctly.

I know I have to agree with you and, I am sure that many of the other WCP members will also agree, that those calling us "Vigilantes" or anything else they can think of, ARE in fact some that have been reported. The sad part is they don't care about what they do or say to others in the game and it makes me wonder just what kind of person is on the other side of that screen.

Frankly, I don't care what they call us, we know what and why we are doing this. Some of us also have young players that have been told they can not play until this problem is cleaned up and that means that some accounts are currently disabled in order to not be paying for one that is not being used.

WCP was founded and started with only 9 members. Once we went public with our concerns with the filth in the game, it quickly grew to 89 members.

There are some out there that prefer to blame us for the trash in the game instead of taking responsibility for their own or family members actions.

Yes, I and many others know who Steven is and he has tried many, many times to get some of these players to really take a look at their actions. And Yes, this is why they started doing this to you. They don't like Steven because of what he stands up for. Unfortunately, most of those players will attack you very quickly if they even suspect you are a WCP. And we ARE still there, just not as visible as we were in the beginning. Some of us have started moving into other areas of the game as well. Wu still has some issues but it is getting better.

We have noticed that more and more players, even though they don't belong to any of the "House Cleaning" groups, have joined in this effort. I think that most players just stored that "Report" button in their attics and forgot about it. Most of us were so busy questing and hitting the Bazaar, that we just did not take the time to stop and look around. This is the biggest reason everything got out of hand. Now that we have decided ENOUGH is ENOUGH, those who chose to break the rules have become rather aggressive at times. They chose to either NOT read the ToU or to ignore it altogether. Many of them even brag about how many accounts have been muted or banned. This is something else we would like to see changed. These players should not be allowed to make more than the 3rd account if they continue with this kind of action. In other words, "STRIKE 3 YOU ARE OUT".

It also appears that some still don't understand what "vigilante" really means. I don't think they know how to use a dictionary.

As for your niece and nephew playing, you may want to check out a couple of other realms such as Scarecrow ( I normally run in that one but have not had much opportunity in the last few months) , Troll and maybe a couple of the other lower realms. Take the time to look at a few of them and hopefully you can find one that is relatively clean. We know some of the are but we will keep working on those we know are not and any others we find.

@Lion359, unfortunately it is you that does not understand this whole issue. You can not accept the fact that KI GAVE members the tools to do just exactly what we do.

You are the one that is wrong. WCP is not the only group doing this and there is no way I would name any of the other groups here to be called "Vigilantes". No matter what you or many others may think, we will continue to report this rubbish anywhere we see it in the game.

I am a Wizard City Protector and as El Veeb said, I am not going anywhere.

Fallon WinterLeaf

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
vollans wrote:
Hmm. Okay. I have read every post on this thread. I can assume that those that are saying "Wizard City Protectors are bad for the game" are very likely the same people getting reported.

Only my family know the reason I sought this group. I will type it here, for anyone interested. If you don't care, just skip over my entire post.

I was playing with my niece (age 14) and nephew (age 10), and we all wanted to dye our clothes to match. We didn't know at the time about the issues in Wu dye shop, and happened to have been placed in Wu when we started playing that afternoon.
While there, I got caught up in a nice conversation with someone named Steven, and we talked for awhile.
All of a sudden I was approached by someone, calling me a 'dirty *N* reporter', and that I should 'get the *F* off the game'. There were other things they said to me, but I was to busy trying to get my sister's kids out of the room or off the game.

Why did they start calling me names, uttering racist slurs and swearing at me? Because I was talking to someone they didn't like.
My sister tried to put them on text chat, but people were swearing by using two or more safe words, that when spoken out loud sound exactly like the word they were masking.
Then we tried menu chat. That is the worst punishment imaginable for a family of sesquipedalians (a person who uses big words).

Since that day, I have made a point to spend a few hours a night - after the daily chores are finished and the kids are in bed.
My niece has asked me every day since the middle of May if she can play again. It breaks my heart when I have to say no, usually as I'm clicking the report button for someone saying the N word or F word for the third time.

It broke my heart even more tonight when she didn't come in to ask when she gets to play again. I wondered why, and she told me 'the game will never be clean enough for kids like us to enjoy.' then she continued drawing.

Now is anyone going to tell me again that it's the fault of WCP that there are people swearing?
If you go back to the old, old posts - I mean posts from 2008 and 2009 - you will see people were complaining about swearing even back then. It took that long for someone to finally stand up, put a foot down, and say enough is enough.

If anyone wants PROOF that it's been going on a long time, it's implied here, and posted here, here, and here. All dated May 5, 2009 and OLDER

That is just four messages from as far back as the forum keeps messages for. The bad language didn't start because of WCP. On the contrary, WCP started because of the bad language.


Vollans,

First and foremost, let me state, I have never been reported at all, in the three years I have played the Game. (I have been reported for beating people in PVP several times). Nor has either of my brothers ever been reported at all. I have never used foul terms of any degree in the game, ever. So, my problem is not related to your first comment at all.
I am not complaining, because I expect to be report, casue I don't even play the game now.....

If we disagree with something, does that mean we are bad and breaking the rules. This is what you are implying, and I consider that profiling, which is simply wrong, yes 100% wrong.

Yes, the problem has been going on for years in the game, and recently has gotten worst, I will agree. Many kids and adults (it's not just kids doing this like everyone thinks, btw) find this really a lot of fun to talk this way.
It's a thing with this generation, and yes that may be sad to say.

I do feel bad for your children and you, but I would first suggest that you keep your kids out of WU. This is where a lot of this happens, just as the WCP know, and they go there just like a Vigilante Group (thank our Laws that we stop Vigilante groups irl).

I would like to state this again,

"People are suppose to be here playing a game, but we have a group doing nothing but a witch hunt, cause kids are using the same language that they use on the bus, and after school, when they are away from adults.
The same bully tactics go on, believe me, I know well, I have two younger brothers."

To add to that, this goes on in Every Game I have played, Runescape, Minecraft, Team Fortress, Zombies, Black Ops, and the list goes on and on.
It's not just in W101, it's in everything on the Web.

For the WCG to actively go after places where they know this is going on, is wrong, any Vigilante group is wrong. Why do you think we have outlawed them in our Laws, and in every civilized nation?

If the Child is young enough, they will not pick up or even understand the walks around the Filters. I know, my youngest brother missed this stuff all the time, that I got. My brother Kevin did pick it up, but now just ignores it. All children need to know how to handle this type of abuse and comments, it could be a really good learning ground.
Next is the WCG going to make sure that the Scams that are going on are stopped, and then where does it end. Vigilante groups are always a bad idea and are just wrong..... bottom line.

Now, if the WCP group had any insight to this, they would have stayed out of WU and a few other adult realms. I would like to suggest, instead of them being the illegal police force of the entire game, they pick two or three realms and state these are dirt free realms. They stand around those unofficial realms and waste their lives and game time doing what makes them excited, reporting adults and kids that step out of line.
Kind of reminds me of the middle ages when they burned witches at the stake. Ofcourse most witches we not really witches, but they got burned anyways because of some beliefs that others didn't have.

I will be leaving on Tuesday, and will no longer be posting on the WCG Vigilantes after that.

Joe.



Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
It seems to me that some people just can’t seem to understand the difference between being vigilant and being a vigilante or a Vigilante group.
There is clearly a huge difference, but it appears from the replies that I see, everyone is saying the WC group is not a Vigilante group.

A vigilant is a responsible citizen, doing their part to make their community a better place. A vigilante group is a criminal, plan and simple, no questions asked. A vigilante group is no better than those they seek to stop.

So everyone understands this, a vigilante is someone who sets out to take the law into their own hands. They have every intentions of going out and enacting justice on their own.
They have their own set of thoughts on how things should be, and if someone steps outside what they want, they take the law into their own hands.

In this case, the Vigilante Group is going out, looking for people to report. They are going out and looking in areas that they would not normally be in.
They are on a Witch Hunt, plain and simple, and this is the way I see the WC group.

No, and I repeat no Vigilante Group or Person is a good thing.

If a soon to be Knight stands Vigilant over his armor, that is a good thing, the WC group is not.

Now maybe we are all on the same page, and understand what a Vigilante is.

Don't accuse me of things I have not said, and this really bugs me how people get everything so confused. I have never said that foul language is acceptabbe, nor bullying, nor scamming or anything else.

All I have said, is that any Vigilante Group is wrong and does litte to nothing in the long run. It generate hate in the game, and is not needed in this or any other game. Complain and let the Game manufacturer fix the problem to keep their customers.

Vigilante's and Vigilante Groups are Outlawed for a Reason......

Joe.

Explorer
Apr 05, 2012
63
I have removed paragraphs based on PvP comments

Lion359 wrote:
The foul language does break the rules, and getting around
the filters is easy to do. This should be something that
KI handles and corrects (it is their program to control).

Since KingsIsle does not employ full-time, in-game moderators, they have given every player the tools to let them know when someone is breaking the rules. They might never know unless they are told.

Lion359 wrote:
First and foremost, I disagree with the formation of any Vigilance committee. Vigilante's always cause more harm than they do good, imo. I believe that history also proves my point very, very well.
Just as with "The Knights that Say Ni", they have a following that is, at times, out of control. Their followers get to the point of being just as bad as anyone that is abusing the system. It follows suit, that the same problem would show up with the Wizard City group.

I agree with you that vigilante groups sometimes abuse the little bit of power that is given to them by the people that they are sworn to protect. That is more the fault of whatever leader that group is following and a mob mentality.
What do The Knights Who Say Ni! have to do with WCP or vigilante groups? Fans of Monty Python are almost always nerds (or they were back then), and usually have stricter morals than others that keep them out of trouble.
As for WCP being considered a vigilante group? Let's take a look at the definition.
Dictionary.com defines "vigilante" as:
dictionary.com wrote:
1. a member of a vigilance committee.
2. any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.

and farther down;
dictionary.com wrote:
1. one of an organized group of citizens who take upon themselves the protection of their district, properties, etc
2. ( US ) Also called: vigilance man a member of a vigilance committee
Calling a member of WCP a vigilante is grasping at straws.

Yes, we try to protect the Spiral from people who would otherwise seek to harm it and the people that happen to be in the general vicinity. But we can not enact any sort of punishment.
Dictionary.com defines "vigilance committee" as:
dictionary.com wrote:
1. An unauthorized committee of citizens organized for the maintenance of order and the summary punishment of crime in the absence of regular or efficient courts.
2. History/Historical . (in the South) an organization of citizens using extralegal means to control or intimidate blacks and abolitionists and, during the Civil War, to suppress Union loyalists.

Comparing Wizard City Protectors a vigilance committee is a long stretch. Again, we can not enact any punishment upon the ones breaking the rules. That is still in the hands of KingsIsle. Someone on KIs staff checks the logs whenever a report is made, and if someone receives a mute for more than a day, it is because that person has said something worthy of that punishment. Wizard City Protectors has never placed a mute or ban on anyone.

Lion359 wrote:
Getting back to the WC group, Why do I say they are an problem, because it is fact, based on both of my younger brother's input
and the input of others. The WC group has generate more hate in the
game and more conflict than any disagreement over a op spell.

Perhaps your brother is one of the fellows that thinks it's fine to swear on a game rated E10, and has been handed sanctions from KingsIsle?
Maybe you should ask around for all the people that have said "Thank you" to us. That group is growing. Taking your brother's word for it, and the word of people that abuse the rules and get sanctioned, is a little biased and one-sided.

Lion359 wrote:
The reporting has gone to an extreme, and people are just
jumping on the band-wagon, to be part of the witch hunt, which
this has become. It is for this reason that I completely
disagree with the formation of any Vigilance committee.

You should keep in mind that not everyone that uses the Report button is a member of Wizard City Protectors.
I know for a proven fact that there are people (usually the same ones that are swearing, etcetera) that report people for absolutely nothing. They do it because they know that WCP will be blamed.

Lion359 wrote:
Second, it's a great thing that parents are trying to
protect their kids from this type of language. In reality,
it's futile, as they will hear far more than what is stated
in this game on the Bus and in school. Anyone that is in
school knows this, but maybe not the older people. Any parent
or old person that counters this remark has extreme blinders
on for sure.

My niece and nephews are home schooled. They know that there is such language out there in the real world, that's why they wanted to play a game that boasted "family safe". They figured that kind of language would not exist here.
I will relate a story to you now. I was on the public transportation in the city which I live with my two young nephews - age ten and two. A couple seats back there was a group of young adults and older teens, and they were swearing a little bit. Once the bus had reached the timed-stop, my two year old nephew got up on his own, went back to them and said, "Please don't use that language in public were there are children." You have never seen five faces turn so read in your life as they all apologized profusely. The rest of the trip was polite.
Moral of the story, most people in reality don't swear when they know there are children.

Lion359 wrote:
I guess that I also don't understand why parents don't look at the web sites that show all of the "Family Friendly playing tips". Also, the Web sites that have "PVP for Parents: chat safety". This would go a long way in helping you solve your issue. Plus stop all this wasted time
waiting for someone to use certain language so you can report them.

Once again someone is suggesting we turn a blind eye to the bad behaviour. I should just turn off our chat so we don't have to see it? Let the bullies harass the innocent players without fear of being punished?
I disagree with you. I pay good money to keep two accounts on a membership, I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of real dollars on this game. There is no way I am going to remove a feature that I pay for, just so the next person can create free-to-play account after free-to-play account as they are muted or banned, just so they can continue to bully and harass other people.
Open chat is a privilege, not a right. If people didn't swear, etcetera then we would not have to be there, and we would not be having this conversation on the forums right now.

Lion359 wrote:
My Dad says that what kids do and say today, would have
never happen when he was a kid. Hence, maybe that's the problem, old people don't understand the new generation of kids and don't like it. My Grandfather didn't like the Hippies, and still picks on them when he see's one. Why after all the years have gone by, who knows.
This entire issue clearly links to one of my AP courses and the Social issue we are currently facing. Not something that I will discuss in this posting.

We "older people" understand fine. We were young once, too. We wanted to act out and do things we were not supposed to. But that's when boundaries came in to play. If we crossed one we were punished, and most of the time the punishment was enough to scare us not to do something.
Your dad is right. The current generation has not had the same boundaries and restrictions enforced that my generation, and the generation before me had.
It started because of one kid that didn't like the rules his parents had set up, he took them to court...and won. He legally divorced his own parents. Since that day, kids have been threatening to do the same if - for example - they are forced to eat veggies, do homework, go to bed at a proper time, or (heaven forbid) have rules or chores at home.

Lion359 wrote:
Third, I can bearly remember my Mom, but I do remember
one thing she said, that has always stuck with me...
"The only reason someone swears, is that they are too
ignorant to use a more sophisticated and intelligent blend
of words". (She was a School Teacher btw).

That is partly true. It does show a lack of vocabulary.
But, I know a sesquipedalian that swear. It's not for lack of vocabulary, it's for lack of others not understanding. She can come up with seventeen different ways to say the S word, and just as many ways to say the F word.

Lion359 wrote:
Anyone in the Spiral, when listing to words that offend them, can simply state this and belittle that person. Maybe it will make the person, and the people around have a new point of view. Changing a person point of view is usually very hard, but maybe not when it's clearly explained from this point of view.
In the end, if it gets out of control, then and only then should you report them.

So you're saying to bully the bully?
Caballo203 wrote:
Besides bullying a bully just makes you a bully. Two wrongs never makes a right

The last time I asked someone not to use the N word in the dye shop, because it offends me, they turned around and attacked me verbally, then called their buddies and they all ganged up on me.
I will not ask someone to stop swearing on W101 again. I will simply report them. They should already know not to type those words. They have an obligation to read the terms of use when they created their account, and they are likely either on their third account, or just recently off a mute for similar offenses.

Lion359 wrote:
I have many other things I would like to state on this, but
this would get excessive, and get too hard to digest in one
reading.

So anyway Hunteray09, you got my backing on this one.

Perhaps you missed Hunter's post, where he says thank you to members of Wizard City Protectors for being there

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
The staff try their best, but they're human and things get past them~ that's why it's so important that everyone does his or her part to keep the game safe and fun for wizards of every age, be it 10, 25, 50, or 100... If KI didn't want us to report obscene behaviours, they wouldn't have given us the tools to do so.

@vollans~ thank you for sharing your story with us! It's sad that even kids understand why our game is no longer safe for them~ my oldest niece and nephew are the same ages as yours, and I would never wish that disappointment on them.

If anyone's curious about the origins of the WCP, here is the thread that started it all:

https://www.wizard101.com/posts/list/50589.ftl#282411

It all began with one person~ a mother, whose young daughter was the victim of harassment similar to what vollans described. She wasn't happy with the way things were, and spoke out against it; now, we're 89 members and counting...

We took up a cause that many turn a blind eye to, and are subject to all kinds of harassment. But, the way I see it, every profanity-laced tirade, false report, or crude gesture directed at me is one that's not aimed at a 10-year-old child. To do that to a little kid is to destroy her (or his) belief that the world is good...

Yes, bad language and crime happen everywhere in the real world all the time, but that doesn't make it right. And, just as in the real world, you're expected to intervene (or call the police) when you witness a crime in progress~ if I see a bunch of people shoving a little kid around, or committing any of the felony offenses so often referenced in the dye shop, you can bet your bootstraps I'm reporting it. To mindlessly watch and observe is the worst thing you can do to that kid~ you didn't harm him directly, sure... but you didn't help him, either.

"El Veeb"
a Wizard City Protector

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Lion359 wrote:

QueQueg,

Spoken just like someone that doesn't understand what is happening here at all. Plus you completely sidestepped the entire posting, you only stated what you wanted to state. Which did not really reply to me at all, you missed the whole posting of Hunteray09, Tabby714 (sorry to have added your name here) and me.

Let me make it clear, so you can understand it,,,,, Any Vigilante group is a problem and unneeded, for any reason at all. We have police in our Society for a reason, and KI has their Filters. The police do their job as well as they can, yes a very difficult job. KI does their Filtering job as well as they can, and I exepect they are improving as they can.


Well, I would say, it is nice to have you back Joe, but once again, I see you on the wrong side of the discussion. Trying to Be my Lex Luthor? lol

Ah yes, the old Vigilante... Let me ask you this Joe, why did KI put in a report feature? Why does KI not have in game MoDs? KI has left it to it's members to use these features to keep the spiral safe and clean. How is that so hard to understand?

A Vigilante breaks laws and has no authority to be judge, jury, and executioner, this is NOT what WCP does or is about.

WCP is under the same rules as everyone else, we have all agreed and must abide by the ToU. We also have been given authority to report. Finally, we are not the judge, we do not get to ban people, that is still up to KI, so we are not the Judge, Jury, and Executioner, like a Vigilante is. So, you need to check your terms when you want to call us Vigilantes.


When people jump in to Help the police by taking the Law into their own hands, they are WRONG... what don't you get about that?
No different than the Wizard City Group, they are Wrong, it's that simple.

Do you really think that the Wizard City Group will stop what's going on, please, be real?


Police have deputized civilians in the present and the past to help out in situations, they have called upon people in a time of need, KI has always asked us to report those offenders of the ToU, to keep the spiral safe and clean.

The only one, that is wrong, is those that think they can curse and act like hooligans any time they want.


Or do you expect that this will just change realms, and go underground?
Or do you expect that all the new people that join will read these post and say, Oh my!!!,,.............Please, please..... give me a break.


There is a huge difference between doing things in a secluded or private area and doing things in public Joe. If they go underground, kids wont see it. There is no Witch Hunt as you so call it, but as always, people make excuses for the things they do that are wrong, people always want to be right.


People are suppose to be here playing a game, but we have a group doing nothing but a witch hunt, cause kids are using the same language that they use on the bus, and after school, when they are away from adults.
The same bully tactics go on, believe me, I know well, I have two younger brothers. Believe me, I have dropped more than one kid for it.


So, you expect people, that are responsible, mature, and know how to use chat properly, to go the extra mile every time to accomodate these hooligans? You want everyone to look the other way and allow this stuff to happen? This is why this stuff has gotten so out of hand IRL, because people let it go. Look at all the groups now, stepping up against bullying and racial slurs. The growing trend is to stop this from happening, not to defend and allow it to happen, get with the program, Joe. The way to stop it, is to take a stand and speak out against it, not turn the cheek and avoid the issue.


Shielding kids from this in the game, when it's going to happen in real life,,, are you guys real?

It's better that a kid learns how to deal with this in the game, and then in real life, or don't you get that. Seems pretty simple to me, I get it, why don't you?


First of all, things are happening IRL against this sort of Behavior. It is not accepted IRL and it should not be accepted here either. This is a game, a place that people should go to have fun, keep away from bad things in the real world, to rest, relax, unwind, have fun, and have a good family time.

I think this is very very simple Joe, why don't you? You are usually pretty smart, it's a simple concept really, don't break the rules and you have nothing to worry about. How is that a problem?


When I played the game, when this was going on, I just talked to my brothers. Explained things to them, and educated them on how to deal with it. They have both learned how to do with this stuff, and how to reply.
Sometimes they switch realms, or leave the area, or just ignore it.
The same stuff goes on in real life, how can you people not know this?


You would not go to your best friends house and start cursing out their parents. You would not act like this in public, you would be arrested and be in Jail for the things people are doing. The reason for WCP is because we had let it go too far and it was getting out of hand, because nobody stepped up to make a stand. Now, we have kids, teens, adults, parents, grandparents, people of all ages that love this game, coming together to take a stand.

I know you have been gone, but how can you not realize that this behavior is not appropriate in the game or in real life? People need to take a stand against it, both in game and out. Technically, in the game, we are calling the police when we report. This is not a vigilante, but a concerned citizen.



GD18 talked about the Military playing this game, no different from any other family, I know. My Dad was in the Military when I was small, along with my Grandfather and Great Grandfather. Lets get back on line here, the Vigilanties are simply wrong, no matter what the case,,, simple wrong.

Joe.



This game is used by many people, which is why some people under the age of 18 have open chat. There are also those that lie and are unsupervised that have open chat. Those that are disrespectful and abuse the system are the ones being reported. Those that follow the rules and terms of use have nothing to worry about.

If your house was burning down, would you not want someone to call the Fire Department? No, really?

To call us Vigilantes is very disrespectful and shows clearly that you dont truly know what we are about and why. Those that want to curse will come up with any excuse to look good and make us look bad, but they are only making themselves look foolish.

Sorry Joe, but it is never acceptable to reward the evil doers and punish the good! No, those that break the rules should lose chat privledges, not those that obey the rules. It's a pretty simple, basic, and common sense concept, how does that confuse you?

Darth

Defender
Sep 10, 2011
191
If I am raising a kid who can't follow simple instructions on how to deal with online harassments with "just report" "change realms" or "do not reply" ... Id be really scared. But no, I will trust my kid to be smart enough to do this things on his/her own. No need for me to be too "gung-ho" about it and feel the need to fend for them ALL the time. Like in real life, you can't be with them forever protecting from things they must learn to do on their own. And I'm sure with proper parenting and guidance, they will deal with it so easily that they will probably teach other kids to do the same.

KI have enough tools for even the youngest kid to deal with the most annoying, foul speaking offender in the game. It's a game guys, if a kid comes crying because someone spoke to them rudely while playing I'm pretty sure an adult can calm them down and explain that the world of W101 is not perfect (like in the real world). If my kid, niece, grandchildren, etc. was the offender and got reported, muted, banned.. its good enough for me to know that he already got his/her punishment. Its a lesson learned the hard way. KI had it all figured out guys, let them deal with it.

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
Wow this has become an interesting exchange.

I come from an area that had Vigilantes. I suggest people look up Henry Plummer and the Innocents.

WCP and other groups are NOT Vigilantes. We are using the tool (the Report Button) in the manner KI wants us to. If we abuse it we will be sanctioned. KI sanctions the bad players. That makes the Vigilante comparison and nice big red herring.

Yup some players hate us, the offenders sure do, they are bearing the sanctions their actions brought them. It is ever so much easier to blame us rather than saying they were bad. Hate away, I could careless if they do. Then yup their friends get mad. They totally ignore why their friends are in trouble.

I won't back down and don't feel in the least bit sorry for the uncouth louts. They deserve what they get. I also refuse to back down. My daughter suffered bullying all through school. Her disabilities made her and "easy" target. I fought for her and this is just second nature. I "stand up for the underdog" (her favorite saying) and for what is right.

Megan Frostriver WCP Founding Member

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2186
Vollons, Vonawesom, and Darth, all I can say is THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

I honestly do not know how anyone can misconstrue what is or is not acceptable behavior in this game or in real life. And, no, this rubbish is not acceptable in any public area and that includes Schools.

Joe, I plan on this being my last response to you. As I said before, you can call us whatever you want, I don't care. But, I would suggest you read the "Code of Conduct" that is highlighted at the top of the Message boards. I have no idea what you hope to gain by calling us a "Vigilante Group", but I am not taking the bait. You have been given the definition of Vigilante, which does not fit the description of our group.

Vigilant? Yes, we are. We report bad behavior and language anywhere in the game we see it. Are we all always in the Commons or Dye Shop? No. We could be anywhere or any realm at anytime.....

As has already been explained, KI can not employ enough in-game Mods to effectively cover the whole game. Think about that. Take a look at the number of realms, active areas in each realm and active locations on each world. UMMM, a rather difficult task I would say. This is why KI gave us the tools to use. (Wow, how many times has that statement been made?)

We have been abused more times than we care to think about. Generate Hate? No. That is done by those that have decided not to follow the rules of the game and think they can just do whatever they want. The funny thing is, YOU CAN'T in the game or REAL LIFE.

Do you remember or did you even see the news story last spring about the School Bus Monitor that was Bullied by students that were on that bus? Do you think the public or the authorites just IGNORED it? Nope. Everyone of those students involved in that were and are being punished. The primary instigators were permanently suspended from public school and school buses and any school activities that home school students are allowed to attend..... Others were banned from school buses. Now, What do you think the parents of those students did as further punishment for them at home? I suspect those kids lost a lot of priviledges for a long time. I know they would if they were my kids.

There are rules in REAL LIFE that have to be followed as well or suffer the consequences. Sooner or later, anything you do will catch up with you.

Is it just kids that are breaking the rules of the game? No, we already knew that and will report regardless of age. WC Protectors immune to the rules? NO. No one is immune. Those of us in the WCP that are determined to take this game back from those that abuse the priviledges will report even a WCP member if we catch them breaking the rules. That has always been the #1 rule for the group. If you are a member, you follow the rules. And by the way, as you have already been told, there were many players that started wearing the WCP badge thinking they would not get reported if they appeared to be members. They soon found out, that badge protects NO one.

It seems that you think all we do is stand around in certain areas all the time. This could not be further from the truth. We do still quest as well.

I have noticed that you stated you no longer play the game. Although I am curious as to why not, I am not asking. But YOU, might just want to take a look around in Wu Commons and see the difference that has been made do to the fact players have gotten tired of all the profanity and bad behavior.

Now, before I end this post, I am asking you to go read the Code of Conduct before you decide to continue calling our group names.

I am a Wizard City Protectorand Proud of it. I will continue to be Vigilant in our mission to get Wizard101 cleaned up and keep it there.

Fallon WinterLeaf

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Definition of VIGILANTE



: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate); broadly: a self-appointed doer of justice

Exactly the WCG, can't anyone see this?

Please understand, that W101 is over the Internet, and therefore falls under Federal Law, not Civil Law, a big big difference.... not understood by many I see.

Federal Law states,

A volunteer group of citizens that without authority assumes powers such as pursuing or Pursuing and punishing those suspected of being criminals or offenders.

The Group need not punish the criminal, only arrest them to be a Vigilante Group. This is a big difference, and clearly shows that this is a true Vigilante group.

It is not and never has been formed and controlled by KI, it is outside the law of KI.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Sarahnimo wrote:
If I am raising a kid who can't follow simple instructions on how to deal with online harassments with "just report" "change realms" or "do not reply" ... Id be really scared. But no, I will trust my kid to be smart enough to do this things on his/her own. No need for me to be too "gung-ho" about it and feel the need to fend for them ALL the time. Like in real life, you can't be with them forever protecting from things they must learn to do on their own. And I'm sure with proper parenting and guidance, they will deal with it so easily that they will probably teach other kids to do the same.

KI have enough tools for even the youngest kid to deal with the most annoying, foul speaking offender in the game. It's a game guys, if a kid comes crying because someone spoke to them rudely while playing I'm pretty sure an adult can calm them down and explain that the world of W101 is not perfect (like in the real world). If my kid, niece, grandchildren, etc. was the offender and got reported, muted, banned.. its good enough for me to know that he already got his/her punishment. Its a lesson learned the hard way. KI had it all figured out guys, let them deal with it.


Sarahnimo,

Really, thank you so much for this post, it's a pefect reply, to people that can't see the end of their nose. This is a real world reply, not a "I gotta protect my baby forever, until they are like 90 or something".
It's not a "I got a vendetta on you if you don't do what I want".
It's let kids be kids, grow up and learn how to deal with the real world.

I have no doubt that you will be attacked for this posting, even though it's completely true and honest. It's sad that people cant understand the world and what it is. A post like this should open eyes, but it won't, why I don't know. They will come back and say "We need to rule the world and control everyone in it", cause that is the way they are.

Joe.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
tabby714 wrote:
I don't want to get into this too much--I try hard to avoid posting here for reasons many of you may know and I won't go into. .........................................................Oh, and please don't call me a troll. I am just sticking up for a brave kid who maybe didn't come off the way he wanted/hoped. As a teacher, I have countless of them. They are good kids, just immature with language.


tabby714,

I am leaving the boards today, but wanted to make one comment to you before I leave. I believe that you are very, very open minded, far too much for these boards. I expect, like many in the past, you will finally get fed up with the constant narrow minded attacks and leave the board.
I tried not to do that, but decided to stand my ground even under constant attacks (from adults), from those that couldn't understand what I had stated.
Or they would read my post completey wrong, and reply to something I had not even stated. You will get the same, and all I can say is beware of the blinders some so blindly wear on this site.

So, the "Best of luck",
Joe.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
GoldenDragon18, and her many supporters,

Just so you can see how you are responding to others
and me on the web site, I would like you to do
me a favor. I know it's a lot to ask, as you may
not be exactly happy with me right now.
(Darthjt, keep out of this one please and thx).

I think this will let you see your replies,
exactly as I see your so very open minded replies.

Think of all the long term benefits, it could help
the entire future of the W101 Community. It could
even remove a few blinders that have been in place
since early childhood, who knows.

Take your favorite music over to some of the
more interesting groups in the Middle East.
Play your music for them, and then tell them how
much you enjoy your Western music, and why you love
it so very much. After all, it just music, what
could it hurt?

When you are done, see how open minded they are
about something that you see as a relaxing,
enjoyable thing. (See the latest news on the
Web for more details).

I expect that you will quickly understand what
a vigilante group is all about. Now, don't lose
your head over this one before you think up a
ranting narrow view of a reply.

Plus, You may understand why I don't like or
support Vigilante groups after that. Yes, they are
still alive and well around the world, sadly to say.
Yes, believe it or not, even here on W101.

If you think I got too much time on my hands lately,
yep, you could be right (or wrong, depending on the
case at hand).

Joe.

Please Support "Youth in Government", your local
"School Debate team", any "school sports" and
your local "Chess clubs".

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2186
Lion359 wrote:
GoldenDragon18, and her many supporters,


I think this will let you see your replies,
exactly as I see your so very open minded replies
.

Joe.



Thank you for finally seeing that we are not so closed minded Joe.

Bye

Defender
Aug 07, 2011
116
Wow. I'm sorry Joe (if you're still reading rather than hitting and running, if one is not going to be around for the conversation, it's rather unfortunate one attacks other participants therein and then says I won't be here to hear your replies thereby unfairly not allowing anyone to defend themselves) but you are the pot calling the kettle black. Utterly and absolutely.

I too am a proud member of the Wizard City Protectors. I do wear the badge -- proudly. I do not care who sees me reporting though I usually use lower level wizards who have not yet earned it; in part, because if they see that badge, they stop. I do not feel a WCP badge should be present for them to control their behavor.

I'd just like to second Vollons post and say it was a similar incident that pushed me over the edge to deciding to report. I found a girl in early afternoon on a quiet realm being harassed by a boy wizard who demanded she be his girlfriend even as she repeatedly told him no. He flat out said he was not taking no for an answer. He was clubbing her over the head and dragging her off to his cave while she protested please just leave me alone. It was obvious by her awkwardness in dealing with him that she was a young girl who didn't know how to effectively tell him to back off. She did eventually say if this was rl, he'd be arrested to which he laughed and said you are my gf because I say you are.

I intervened and told her to put him on ignore and switch realms. I had not at this point heard of the Wizard City Protectors and I was not as schooled on what is or is not reportable. I now know this kind of harassment is and I'm sorry I didn't also tell her to report. She thanked me and switched realms. I ported home and decided that I had to risk being sanctioned for false reporting and reported the caveman. I hadn't thought to take screen shots as it was happening but I took screen shots of my dialog box of the entire conversation because the offender carefully skirted the language, making sure he didn't curse around filter or anything else blatantly reportable and e-mailed them to KI explaining the situation. They explained they can't tell me the outcome due to privacy issues but assured me I was within the right to report.

A few days after that I was lazily looking through the groups on Central's forum and found the Wizard City Protectors. I was still shaken about seeing this girl openly abused in game and I have not lived a sheltered life. I have lived through some very bad things and have known some very coarse people, some even criminal. I eagerly signed up to join the WCP and have never regretted it. I think almost everyone in that group comes there out of some incidence of abuse that was the straw that broke the camel's back that made them decide they were not going to look the other way or ignore that innocent wizards were being bullied and harassed simply because they turned a blind eye to it. I think most of us in the group have had some eye awakening event like this. We are not vigilantes, we are, as goldendragon stated, vigilant. The sleeping giant has woke up.

The report button in game functions the way a phone call to the police does in real life. It does not give us the power to mute or ban anyone; it merely gives us the power to alert the authorities. KI relies on those tools as much as we do. To put mods in all realms 24/7 is a flat-out impossibility in that it would make the game so cost prohibitive to pay for it that it would not be needed. I do think they need to put in some visible ones, especially at the most offensive times of days and worse places and maybe a button for inform moderator so they can port somewhere a problem is reported or check the logs immediately. I don't know. That's my personal opinion and not a formal opinion of the WCP. The only official stance of the WCP is to not turn a blind eye to rule breaking and report it. Founders please feel free to correct me if I got that wrong.

Some of us do stand and report. I have cut my play time to do so. I sometimes do on those low level wizards on a F2P account and have occasionally done so on my paid account. I have turned off open chat when the young child in my household is home but when they are not, I get on and report for an hour or two and often do after he has gone to bed for the night. The thing is it has gotten this bad because so many have not done their job and reported to the authorities. Just as crime will get out of hand in any area when the police are not called, so it has here. We are now calling the police; it is that simple. That is being vigilant; it is not vigilante.

A lot of crime ridden neighborhoods have instituted neighborhood watch programs. This is a more valid comparison. The WCP are no more vigilante than a neighborhood watch program. Those programs have been effective and it is good to see that so are we and the others now reporting in game having an effect. It means that both we and KI are doing their jobs. I often get discouraged and feel that KI is not responding and doesn't care but I do have to apologize for those thoughts because if it were true, our reporting would not be having an effect that is felt at all. It is very hard to keep in mind how much they are doing because we don't always see it. They do value the game they created and are doing their part.

Finally, I know it is not just bad actors that protest though I do think a large percentage of them are those who have been sanctioned or have had a friend or relative sanctioned. There are also those who don't like censorship (too bad, this game has rules; I do swear, like a sailor but not in the Spiral just as I wouldn't at my grandson's school, at my doctor's office or in a courtroom) or those who are overly paranoid about big brother watching you. This is unfounded IMO. We are not prying into your living room and saying you can't talk like that. I am only monitoring the Spiral. And I am only doing this to make it a safe place for my grandson to play and to not come across things like I did in the Pet Pavilion that day.

Finally, I'd like to address the just turn off your open chat nonsense. First, I agree with those who say why are the good being punished but even more importantly to me is that this does not solve the problem. I came across a virtual criminal assault making the rounds one evening fairly early in the evening when kids would likely still be up. Lewd behavior is simulated. Being on menu chat only does not shield my grandson or other children from these things. And ignoring the speech, has encouraged behavior to worsen and these simulations to happen. Also, it seems to me that telling us to go to menu chat is the virtual equivalent of telling us not to leave our homes after dark. You don't want us to see to report the bad behavior and, for that, shame on you.

Blaze Duskdreamer
Proud Wizard City Protector

Delver
Aug 13, 2010
234
So, this thread, does it have a purpose? Arguing about an unofficial group, then argue about foul language? Let's sum it up by saying read the ToU, then follow that. Cursing from time to time is acceptable, as long as it isn't excessive or crude to many people. This even sounds bad. We can't talk for people and their ways, so please lock this thread as it has no use furthermore.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
957
Some people are clearly and truly vindicated, when their chameleon like attackers, show their true ugly colors.

Illuminator
Oct 22, 2011
1304
I guess some people just don't get it, and choose to wear blinders as to what is going on in the game, and what the WCP are all about. Perception is a fragile thing. People will always see things differently, no matter what is said and what the facts are.

The WCP hold themselves to the highest standards when it comes to the Code of Conduct for the game, and as one of the founders, I am proud to be a member.

I was in law enforcement (retired). I am very familiar with vigilantes, and I will say, the WCP does NOT fall under that category.

We are vocal about the in-game abuse. There isn't any reason why players of any age should have to put up with it. Ignoring it does not make it go away. It escalates, because the abusers know they can get away with it without consequences. The good players are asked to ignore, change realms, use menu chat. Why should we be punished when the bad players get full use of the game?

Parents are responsible for teaching their children the ways of the world, and this includes appropriate behavior in public, as well as online. Respect for others, respect for established rules & laws, saying 'please' and 'thank you', seem to be a thing of the past. This certainly doesn't pertain to everyone, and I certainly don't mean to offend those that do the best they can for their children.

If this game was for a 'mature audience', what the WCP do would certainly change, or may not even exist. However, this is a game rated E10 (for EVERYONE ages 10+). Young and old players should not be subjected to the abuse and behavior of the few players that can't control themselves.

The ToU is established, not only to protect the players, but to also protect KI. It is everyone's responsibility to make sure they read and follow the rules. Complaining about 'reporters', or people who step up to help a victim of bullying is going to make YOU look uncool, not us.

Delver
Jul 09, 2009
275
Delver
Jul 09, 2009
275
hunteray09 wrote:
@darthjt: I understand your claims, and I do know not everyone who wears the badge is from your group. But my main point is, Wizard101 used to be a family fun game in 2009. Now all you see in the Commons is, "Please stop the bad language" and the victim tests the prosecutor usually. I understand this is better than seeing non-stop cussing, but it's getting to where if you accidentally slip once, you could be banned. Cyber Bullying is most depressingly natural. You can help the cause, but you cannot stop the cause. That's like telling everyone in the world to never do wrong again. Out of the billions of people in the world.

@goldendragon18: I also understand your statements, but please try to think of what I may be saying. We need to trust our new generation, we can't protect them forever. Some kids never see the outside world because their parents are too protective. How does this prepare them for Adulthood? I am fine with the WCP group, but I am saying you guys may be taking a stone too far. You'll probably think I am only saying this because I am one of the rule breakers. Not true. A month ago, I thought of quitting due to terrible community play in respect. Now it seems the opposite. The game has gotten too strict by players. Like I told darthjt, you can help the cause but not stop it. I am exhilarated that you guys are trying to stop bad behavior, it thrills me! But maybe it's time to settle down a bit, if you get my meaning.

@vonawesome1: I know not everyone is a member of your group who wears a badge, but what I am saying is, the WCP also bring some new behavior to the group. People will now make wizards then put the badge on, and discredit you by saying even more terrible things. Guys, KI is trying their best to fix this, but while they can control the game, they cannot control the people. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES.
You cannot assume every person is as bad as the other by one rule breaking. If it's severe, then yes. But one cuss word isn't the end. They could have slipped. I am not teaming up with the rule breakers, but trying to tell you that yes, people do make mistakes at times.

So, in final words on my post, you guys seem to be too strict to some of the community. Whose to say that it isn't some nine year old who heard someone cussing and doesn't know better? You warn them yes, but that only makes them want to do it more. Human Nature. I know you'll reply to me, the three of you, saying i'm wrong, probably mentioning my rudeness in this post, but I am trying to get a point across. A point I am failing for you all to see.


Thank you. "WCP" forgets that kids will be exposed to foul language, if they haven't already. That doesn't mean they will repeat it, they know better. I'm a teen, and sure I may be pushed to a point when I say "Motherflapjacks" and such, but I don't use it all the time. One of my best teachers once told me and my classmates:

"Parents these days have become too overprotective, and some kids never see the light of day. Adults need to talk to their kids about these things like foul language or kids will never grow up. This generation of adults have made many mistakes and it's up to this generation of kids to fix it, but how will they if adults never let them grow up?"

You need to take off the bubble wrap, or kids will pop it themselves.

Aaron Drakewalker Archmage Pyromancer

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2186
SantaIceBurg wrote:
So, this thread, does it have a purpose? Arguing about an unofficial group, then argue about foul language? Let's sum it up by saying read the ToU, then follow that. Cursing from time to time is acceptable, as long as it isn't excessive or crude to many people. This even sounds bad. We can't talk for people and their ways, so please lock this thread as it has no use furthermore.


SantaIceBurg, this discussion has been about cleaning up the foul language that has gone rampant in the game. Cursing from time to time is acceptable? NO, it is not. You said it your self. READ the ToU/Chat rules. You will find Professor Greyrose post at the following link. And here is rule #5 as she posted it.

5. Typing around the chat filters &/or having Open chat does NOT excuse you from the Terms of Use. There's no "First Amendment" in the Spiral. You don't have the right to be harassing, rude, crude or an otherwise uncouth louse. Having type chat is a privilege, not a right. As a mature player capable of handling the responsibility, we presume you already know that.

https://www.wizard101.com/posts/list/52195.ftl

There are those that feel we should just continue to turn a blind eye to what has been going on and just IGNORE it.....

For anyone interested in knowing why this discussion and a few others are taking place, go to this link:

https://www.wizard101.com/posts/list/50589.ftl

Those of us that read the ORIGINAL, un-edited post, that this mother was brave enough to post here, got an EYE-POPPING, EAR BURNING idea of what was really happening in the game. That is when and why we FOUNDED the WCP. We admitted that we were as much to blame for this kind of rubbish getting out of control as anyone else. We did not take the time to stop and look around when we were passing through the Commons on our way to the Bazaar. This post literally removed those blinders we were wearing. A few of us were already friends when we saw how this 9 yr old little girl was treated. That is when we said ENOUGH. This kind of thing is not going to be allowed to continue. We have report buttons that KI, at the request of players gave us to use. We took them out of the attic, dusted them off, oiled them up and they really work great.

We do know that there have been many players that started using the WCP badge once they figured out who we were and what we were doing. Some of those players had actually just EARNED that badge for completing a particular quest. Some of the others used it to pose as one of our members and in fact some of them abused it by making false reports against other players. IF any of our official members did make a false report, I will apologize for that now but I will also guarantee you, it was by sheer accident. There are times when the chatter flows so fast it is very difficult to actually click on the one name you want. We do try very hard to make sure we do not make false reports.

For those of you that seem to think that what the WCP does is wrong, you may want to take a look around. For any of you that think we are closed minded, think again. Here is the meaning of closed minded.

close-mind·ed (klsmndd, klz-) or closed-mind·ed (klzd-)
adj.
Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas


So as you can see, it is not us that is closed minded but those that argue to try to keep changes from happening that will be for the better good of the community. Closed minded is not seeing that something NEEDS to change.

"Are we taking this too seriously?" NO. The fact of the matter is, it has not been taken seriously enough until just recently.

Now that groups are forming and other community members are also stepping forward to make a stand, there are others that don't want to see this and will continue to use foul language, graphically discriptive behavior and some even go to the extent of claiming the work for KI, they better be able to show their staff badge. Otherwise, they will be reported as well. (yes, it is reportable.)

If we as members of the WCP even catch one of our own members breaking any rules, that person will also be reported and removed from the group.

We have been able to actually get some of the players to see that they do not need to curse in the game or in REAL life to have fun and good friends. This is just common courtesy. You will also find that the MAJORITY of the country's population DOES know how to behave in public. What they do or say in their own home is up to them. So in reality, when you are here or in the game, you are in KI's home/property. They have every right to set the rules and they have every right to remove you if you break them.

As Que so nicely put it (Thank YOU), the WCP is more like a "Neighborhood Watch".

One last thing. Close this thread? NO. Why? Because as long as this bad behavior continues to be a problem, then every member needs to be aware they have a tool to use and we as members of W101 and WCP want to encourage them to do so. We just ask that they do make sure what is or is not reportable.

Fallon WinterLeaf Founding Member WCP