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You, PvP, and the "new" critical system

1
AuthorMessage
Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
892
I got together with some friends of mine today to test some pvp mechanics, and here is what we found:

1) We pitted a level 5 Death with a quad crit pet, against a level 100 Life with decent block (290), and a conviction up. In the match the death just used basic low-level attacks, with no other boosts to crit. In the match he landed 4 criticals, none of which were blocked by the life wizard with conviction up! This is the critical system you introduced in test, and allowed to come to the live realm? Seriously !?! KI you owe every paying customer of this game an apology, and need to take this down asap. Unbelievable.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1025
Here is some more conclusive testing: Critical and Block

Personally I am ok with the new system.

Historian
Jun 19, 2010
657
I can't remember the last time I ever saw anyone post anything positive about PVP; and I've been playing since beta. The players that seem to do really well in PvP, always remember to put on their big wizard pants before entering a match; and do anything and everything that's required to win. And while I'm not liking the adjustment to critical hits; instead of worrying about what I can't change, I'd rather focus on learning new ways to survive, thrive, and win in PvP.

Survivor
Oct 31, 2010
31
In the update notes it states "The system for calculating Critical and Block has been altered to provide more balance in gameplay. Previously, if a wizards Critical Rating was lower than the opponent's block rating, they would almost never land a Critical hit against that opponent." Which is how it should be! I don't see how that is a problem. But I don't get why its mentioned because it isn't even true. It then states that the new calculations will show a reduction in Critical and Block rating overall but now when you do land a critical it is now less likely to be blocked. The bold part is the thing I see as the biggest problem.

Alright, so how does lowering our chance to block provide more balance in gameplay? There are MANY huge flaws in this new system and it needs to go. I don't see how the old system had a problem of almost always blocking? Wasn't the problem that people hardly ever blocked?

Long story short everyone will still be critting all the time, the only difference is now due to the system making it less likely for us to block, nobody will ever block. How is this a fix? Everybody will be critting nobody will be blocking. And the percentage for crit in 50s and 60s has not even been lowered, so nobody will be able to block level 60s with crafted gear. This isn't something that can be ignored, it is a major problem and something needs to be done. It isn't just going to be effecting PvP, it's a PvE problem too. In Polaris even with well over 300 block I get crit on by every single mob. The only thing that needed change in the old system was an increase in our chance to block. Please just go back to the old system and just slightly lower the chance of critting and raise the chance of blocking.

Survivor
Jun 11, 2010
10
I am not gonna lie, but I am enjoying it Lol.
I have a quad critical balance pet because my second school is balance. The pet is Epic with Sturdy Jewel and has new max stats. The pet alone gives 1/4% (25%) critical. Added with a Jack Hollow's Guitar jumps it to 1/3% (33%) critical. Before and after the update, low level critical % did not change (which means Block obviously didn't either). I can also say I battled an opponent with like 28 block (Defender) and She blocked a couple of my hits. So block is fine imo. I would rather say you guys were unlucky? Idk...
But Awesome Job on the New Critical Updates KingsIsle Critical and Block %'s are Perfect!

& Wizard Level 45

Defender
Nov 24, 2012
124
I honestly don't know how this new critical system balances the game--If anyone has the answer to that, please let me know. This game has become a lot less enjoyable to play. It seems to me that KI made this change because... why not? The Life school was severely affected in a negative way by this new change, and KI is obviously aware of this. That is why they added the minor bonus to critical heals. This bonus does not help, however, because critical has been nerfed. Now anyone can heal just as well as Life wizards and maybe even better. What made Life wizards' healing more effective was critical heals--but now choosing whether to have a Life wizard or an Ice with life mastery as your healer will not make a difference. Incoming/incoming does not make a difference, either. Considering that life wizards do not get any more incoming/outgoing healing boost than a nonlife wizard without sacrificing other important stats.

Survivor
Jun 30, 2013
38
Intrepidatius on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
I got together with some friends of mine today to test some pvp mechanics, and here is what we found:

1) We pitted a level 5 Death with a quad crit pet, against a level 100 Life with decent block (290), and a conviction up. In the match the death just used basic low-level attacks, with no other boosts to crit. In the match he landed 4 criticals, none of which were blocked by the life wizard with conviction up! This is the critical system you introduced in test, and allowed to come to the live realm? Seriously !?! KI you owe every paying customer of this game an apology, and need to take this down asap. Unbelievable.
They owe us an apology AND compensation by returning the old sweet system. I have no idea how do they think that this will ever balance and of the game aspects like Fitzhume or Falmea said. Several friends of mine have already quit until they remedy the situation with critical. Oh, and remember the lovely Malistaire the Undying with his insane critical? Now it will be even harder to beat him with our useless stats. A note for those developers: If you do not satisfy those who are in pure hate with this critical system (basically everyone) AND improve those extreme spell disappointments (Wings of Fate's DoT and Raging bull's awful range and smokescreen), this game will die faster than Pirate101 did with the excessive lack of storyline content.

Survivor
Oct 13, 2012
5
I agree with you my friend. I think the old critical block system was jsut fine. Atleast it was better than what we have now in today's release. Plz either chance the new system or just let us keep the old system which was way better than what we got today

Survivor
Mar 22, 2010
46
It needs to go, why the chance of blocking has been extremely lowered even with extremely high block is beyond me. Wasn't the problem in the old system that people didn't block that often? If this system stays and the chance of blocking is not raised I can see lots of people leaving.

Survivor
Jun 11, 2010
10
Mindy GoldenHeart

I will admit though, Wings of Fate DoT is a terrible card with a terrible name. Imo I even think the name is a rip-off from another card that doesn't even have similar meaning in animation nor damage (cough, cough Gaze of Fate, cough).

Anyhow, If KingsIsle is going to decide to change the critical system again.. Just do not mess with wizard levels 50 and below as you did before the update. Our gears don't pack with much block or critical anyway. Also because I do not own a max wizard I am honestly in a neutral state; Either if they change or keep the new system (so long as its affecting wizard levels 50 & above).
Thanks

Survivor
Mar 22, 2010
46
Tylerwildpants on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
I can't remember the last time I ever saw anyone post anything positive about PVP; and I've been playing since beta. The players that seem to do really well in PvP, always remember to put on their big wizard pants before entering a match; and do anything and everything that's required to win. And while I'm not liking the adjustment to critical hits; instead of worrying about what I can't change, I'd rather focus on learning new ways to survive, thrive, and win in PvP.
Maybe that's because there is nothing positive to say about it? I'd rather not put on my "big wizard pants" if in all my matches I will hardly ever block anything.

Survivor
Mar 22, 2010
46
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
Here is some more conclusive testing: Critical and Block

Personally I am ok with the new system.
How can you be ok with it, are you thinking of every aspect of the game it will have an impact on? It will completely ruin Legendary PvP, if a 60 faces another 60 almost every Critical will not be blocked. The new system has hardly lowered the percentage that a level 60's Critical counts for, so with House of Scales gear of crafted gear most level 110s won't block them often, let alone other level 60's. Yes new gear with high block has been added, but mostly only max level Warlords will have it, there is no new high block gear for the lower levels. Unless the amount block counts for is raised and this idea of Blocking being less likely is gone I can see this new system causing nothing but problems.

Explorer
Feb 23, 2012
72
Zekrr on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
How can you be ok with it, are you thinking of every aspect of the game it will have an impact on? It will completely ruin Legendary PvP, if a 60 faces another 60 almost every Critical will not be blocked. The new system has hardly lowered the percentage that a level 60's Critical counts for, so with House of Scales gear of crafted gear most level 110s won't block them often, let alone other level 60's. Yes new gear with high block has been added, but mostly only max level Warlords will have it, there is no new high block gear for the lower levels. Unless the amount block counts for is raised and this idea of Blocking being less likely is gone I can see this new system causing nothing but problems.
Exactly! got landed on a cl boss, now imagine my death having to get through the rest of khrysalis

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
892
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
Here is some more conclusive testing: Critical and Block

Personally I am ok with the new system.
You are ok with something as flawed as this? I am pretty much speechless after that remark, though it speaks volumes in less than flattering ways.

Survivor
Apr 15, 2011
13
Somehow KI made pvp even worse than before. I was just in a practice match and a myth just landed on me with 164 critical, I had a conviction with a base block of 174. Yet my friend is a level 56 with 110 block and he blocked, without a conviction on. Explain to me how this is mathematically possible?

How are you gonna make a game where you can have 400+ critical at level 80, but you can not have 400 block at level 80. You've made pvp so random and one sided, to where there really is no skill required anymore. Something needs to be done before you lose a ton of members.

Survivor
Jun 29, 2009
21
Eric LifeHeart on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
Mindy GoldenHeart

I will admit though, Wings of Fate DoT is a terrible card with a terrible name. Imo I even think the name is a rip-off from another card that doesn't even have similar meaning in animation nor damage (cough, cough Gaze of Fate, cough).

Anyhow, If KingsIsle is going to decide to change the critical system again.. Just do not mess with wizard levels 50 and below as you did before the update. Our gears don't pack with much block or critical anyway. Also because I do not own a max wizard I am honestly in a neutral state; Either if they change or keep the new system (so long as its affecting wizard levels 50 & above).
Thanks
I'm an exalted life wizard. Yeah, poor me... If the life spell wasn't over time, that'd be great. I'm not bothered by the animation, I think it's cool. Don't mind the name either. Darkmoore is going to be very tough - The life wizards won't be able to do their healing job, and the other wizards can't function without health (obviously).

So, I have one more thing to say...

I've been doing my fair share of complaining, but we need to give Kingsisle a break. Let's see what the plan is - I'm sure they'll remedy this in some fashion.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1025
Zekrr on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
How can you be ok with it, are you thinking of every aspect of the game it will have an impact on? It will completely ruin Legendary PvP, if a 60 faces another 60 almost every Critical will not be blocked. The new system has hardly lowered the percentage that a level 60's Critical counts for, so with House of Scales gear of crafted gear most level 110s won't block them often, let alone other level 60's. Yes new gear with high block has been added, but mostly only max level Warlords will have it, there is no new high block gear for the lower levels. Unless the amount block counts for is raised and this idea of Blocking being less likely is gone I can see this new system causing nothing but problems.
At legendary levels critical rate is at around a 40% level. Block is at around 40% with a 60% critical rate added when with conviction. Considering the defensive stats typically seen at legendary ranks the system can survive what is in effect a 25% chance of landing an unblocked critical.

Squire
May 10, 2013
505
I do not like this new critical system.
For me, I get crit on all the time in Khrysalis farming for that Morganthe Amulet, and I can't block due to this update.
It feels like the mobs are only affected in Polaris.

~PlayHard~

Survivor
Mar 22, 2010
46
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
At legendary levels critical rate is at around a 40% level. Block is at around 40% with a 60% critical rate added when with conviction. Considering the defensive stats typically seen at legendary ranks the system can survive what is in effect a 25% chance of landing an unblocked critical.
40% block? Yeah if you have a double block pet and use the Glendemming robe, but why should people bother spending a ton of money doing that? Even if you have decent block now you are more likely do not block than you are to block. I'm fine about the lower in what the percent counts for, but the fact that the percent of critical has nothing to do with if you block or not is just a bad idea. How does it make sense that 130 critical can now easily land on 200 block? If our chance of blocking is not raised and the idea of it being more likely to land than be blocked isn't gone PvP is practically ruined.

Survivor
Jun 30, 2013
38
duncan976 on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
I'm an exalted life wizard. Yeah, poor me... If the life spell wasn't over time, that'd be great. I'm not bothered by the animation, I think it's cool. Don't mind the name either. Darkmoore is going to be very tough - The life wizards won't be able to do their healing job, and the other wizards can't function without health (obviously).

So, I have one more thing to say...

I've been doing my fair share of complaining, but we need to give Kingsisle a break. Let's see what the plan is - I'm sure they'll remedy this in some fashion.
The problem is that they never did with other situations, like old critical and shadow enhanced spells (even though I'm OK with the spells). The only thing that gives me hope is that this problem is, literally, critical. This is the only reason that would make them satisfy us for this one time. Ruining the whole game in a single update is not any close to good.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1025
Zekrr on Nov 20, 2015 wrote:
40% block? Yeah if you have a double block pet and use the Glendemming robe, but why should people bother spending a ton of money doing that? Even if you have decent block now you are more likely do not block than you are to block. I'm fine about the lower in what the percent counts for, but the fact that the percent of critical has nothing to do with if you block or not is just a bad idea. How does it make sense that 130 critical can now easily land on 200 block? If our chance of blocking is not raised and the idea of it being more likely to land than be blocked isn't gone PvP is practically ruined.
The reason it works is because while you are now less likely to block you are also less likely to critical in the first place. I can't speak very much for legendary PvP as I long abandoned it as the matching system created a vicious cycle where I ended up fighting the least experienced, and poorly equipped new PvPers-therefore discouraging them from continuing PvP and effectively killing the system at the root. That being said if the block rate proves to be too unreliable then an easy compromise would be to invent tournament gear for low arena tickets that emphasized block.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1025
Intrepidatius on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
You are ok with something as flawed as this? I am pretty much speechless after that remark, though it speaks volumes in less than flattering ways.
I am alright with it because:

a)The old system was at it's breaking point and this system buys KI some time-acting as a stop gap measure until more rigorous changes are applied

b)This system drastically improves the quality of life of the truly casual players that were being alienated throughout the second arc.

c)This system is more intuitive and easy to explain to more players.

Survivor
Apr 15, 2011
13
Eric Stormbringer on Nov 21, 2015 wrote:
I am alright with it because:

a)The old system was at it's breaking point and this system buys KI some time-acting as a stop gap measure until more rigorous changes are applied

b)This system drastically improves the quality of life of the truly casual players that were being alienated throughout the second arc.

c)This system is more intuitive and easy to explain to more players.
lol, basically what you are saying is ki should reward mediocrity? We should have a system where the casual player can land criticals on those who have spent hours, days crafting, training pets, questing and farming for what they've earned (not including money)? If they feel alienated because they are getting wrecked in pvp, then maybe they shouldn't pvp anymore, or maybe, here's an idea, they should take the time and put some effort towards their characters like everyone else has. Let's please the casual player, while displeasing the regulars.

Defender
Apr 05, 2013
100
Honestly, PVP isn't the only thing effected by this new change. PVE is too. Bosses keep getting criticals (sometimes mobs too) and I only block them like, 20% of the time with full Darkmoor gear. Something here needs to be done.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1025
Duncan HawkWraith on Nov 22, 2015 wrote:
lol, basically what you are saying is ki should reward mediocrity? We should have a system where the casual player can land criticals on those who have spent hours, days crafting, training pets, questing and farming for what they've earned (not including money)? If they feel alienated because they are getting wrecked in pvp, then maybe they shouldn't pvp anymore, or maybe, here's an idea, they should take the time and put some effort towards their characters like everyone else has. Let's please the casual player, while displeasing the regulars.
It's less about rewarding mediocrity and more about allowing the game to be playable for casuals. This game was and still is marketed as a casual game. One should not have to do hours of farming, crafting, hoard packs to be able to successfully complete it and that is the direction the game was going had they retained the old critical system. This change allows the casual player to survive while still having the regular and hardcore players with a marked advantage.

1