Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

something needs to be done about judgment

AuthorMessage
Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
That's true, if you do go with an elemental blast/ hydra setup, you do have more shields to worry about. My personal opinion on judgment itself is that it is just fine as it is, its no more powerful than what some of the other schools get. I just think the reason people complain about it so much is that they don't have any balance specific shields to use against it, then again they seem to complain about earthquake or too (these people must think that stalling is the way or the highway, or that the best offense is a good defense -).

You are right though, judgment kinda is balance's only real attack, a problem that SHOULD have solved with power nova, but didn't. I suppose we can either hope for a another change for power nova or an increase in level cap so we can get some new balance spells (hopefully with something that can hold a candle to judgment :?).

Finally, I also think mander is really helpful, I don't see how anyone can think he's weak.

</div>
</blockquote>Oh yea, let's not forget to mention what a wonderfully weak minion that the balance wizard gets. <blockquote class="uncited">
<div>

PLEASE tell me he was being sarcastic.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

Survivor
May 17, 2009
2

Well, being a life wizard (and a very observant one, sorry for misspelling)
I gotta say that every school has a kill a person in one hit spell if used properly. Okay, so let's say you're fighting a life wizard (me). Now, we all know that life isnt the strongest school around, HOWEVER I happen to have a 27% boost from clothes (I got really good drops) and a couple more things like: a life blade, life trap,spirit blade, and a tough treasure card. Now, if I play it right, this could take out a lot of people in one shot. being the underdog, I have the advantage that people don't expect me to have big hits. Just my two cents, and realize that this is LIFE we're talking about. EVERY SCHOOL HAS A TAKE YOU OUT IN ONE HIT SPELL. The important thing is that you customize your deck to corespond with a situation.
Fred Angleblade level 47 life.
The force will be with you. Always.


Actually, I've been playing death since I started, and have played quite a few pvp matches. I have yet to kill a person in one hit, and I have every death spell you can get. I've used wraith, vampire, scarecrow, even skeleton, and I still can't kill a person in one hit.

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
OH NO! I CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST MISTAKEN QUOTED MYSELF TRYING TO QUOTE SOMEONE ELSE?! :( NOOOOOOO!!!!!

ahem . . .ok, thats all . . .feel lots better now :-)

Ah, well. I guess we'll just have to hope balance gets some better cards in the future. In the meantime, they'll have to continue to rely on judgment and their defensive spells(at least they get two watered down versions of tower shield and weakness).

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

Survivor
Mar 25, 2009
15
The MAIN reason people complain about Judgement is that it usually is a one shot kill, so the person that got hit can't heal themselves. That's what I do, try to one hit KO the other player so they can't heal. And the MOST possble damage I was able to do was 6000. With a tower shield it's only 3000, that might be able to kill any wizard except ice people that have tons of health. Another thing I find unfair about PvP is that the people that win just a little more than loose will have a ton of tickets for the arena gear when they get there. I win at least half of my battles, and when I got to commander the only thing I could buy was the arena boots.


Edit: I hit right about 9,000 right after this post. Used:Balance Blade, BladeStorm, Hex, Feint, Curse, full row of power pips, and 29% damage bonus, plus monstrous= +175 damage to attack, and that was it.

Explorer
Mar 08, 2009
72
charlescave wrote:
almost everytime i get in a pvp i most of the time get in a fight with a balance guy,Well i dont think its fair they always use judgment to win i think they should at least cut the power down on judgement because its not fair to the other players when they have to fight a balance guy can someone look at this and see what they can do.
please give your feedback..

charles deathvault level 49 myth

you have to be something more then a noob to beat a balance but it can be done they have to hit me 3 to kill me stop crying and start thinking

Survivor
Jan 10, 2009
12
Judgement is not overpowered, it is judgement plus Feint whiih is causing the distress...

Feint when combined with a reasonably powered spell from virtualy any other school can creates a situation where the oponnent is killed instantly with no chance to reply. I cannot believe this was in the original design for wizard city, that we become just the the dead and dieing or the ones with Feint?

Somewhere within the Law laid down for Wizrd City our right to fight back against this injustice must be preserved.

Survivor
Mar 24, 2009
8
Lyrren wrote:
Judgement is not overpowered, it is judgement plus Feint whiih is causing the distress...

Feint when combined with a reasonably powered spell from virtualy any other school can creates a situation where the oponnent is killed instantly with no chance to reply. I cannot believe this was in the original design for wizard city, that we become just the the dead and dieing or the ones with Feint?

Somewhere within the Law laid down for Wizrd City our right to fight back against this injustice must be preserved.


well i am now lvl 50 myth and i have a balance guy i got to say its still a cheat jugdment is .
the should lower the hit down

Defender
Oct 03, 2008
174
As i've said before, the best solution is to make feint applicable to only death spells. Death spells deal the lowest amount of damage of all the schools, which is why we have feint in the first place; to make up for the low damage output. Judgment is fine, in fact balance really needs another strong spell soon as well as life; they both have only 1 spell to rely upon for their offense, this doesn't do them much good in the arena. I praise those balance wizards who have made the top 100, balance is truly a difficult school to play.

Valkoor Crow
Grandmaster Necromancer

Survivor
Mar 28, 2009
36
i do think judgement is unfair. Yes storm and fire have these godkilling spells but they arent effective without buffs. judgement just needs pips and you got a killer on your hands. Helephant does 600 to 700 damage (average) and stormzilla does a little more. With a blade and trap, helephant does anywhere from 1300-1700 give or take, stormzilla doing a little more. If a balance mage decides to buff up with blades, and balance blades are used up no matter how many you equip, while you pip and buff your helephant and, with power pips, the balance mage just one hits you. And even if you survive they have a lot of life, dream on its hard to one hit them. So even though balance doesnt have those god defying spells like storm and fire, they have one spell to rule them all. The only real challenge to balance is another school with lots of life and a neutral shield (ice much?)
Kane Ironfist- Grand Master fire, storm Master of Flame

Survivor
Jun 20, 2009
9
I apologize in advance for the length. Just going to throw my buck-fiddy out and then siddown.


I'll start off with just this one fact: I'm a passing decent enough player (Life) and have only a very small 25 ranked matches under my belt (and many more practice of course). Now I know this isn't many matches but maybe that'll highlight the point. As of this post I have 18 ranked wins, and 7 losses. With the exception of my noobish performance in a 2v2, and a storm Wildbolt 1800 KO, every other defeat was a Balance wizard and Judgement most within 10 rounds. Faced 5 ranked Balance Wizards and 5 in practice and only won once. I'm level 38 with decent gear, so I'm not a pushover, but I'm not a pwner Warlord by a long stretch, but every other opponent I've faced I've beaten: Storm, Ice, Fire.. many Fire, Death and Life. No Myth yet.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny nor the disadvantage that burdens balance wizards.

Exactly.

When the Balance opponent types "gg" as they're casting and everyone has full health without a single offensive spell slung. Whether they're right or have misjudged *ahem*, something is definitely wrong if they can presume the win before the fight's begun.

The only time I can say "gg" is when I've finally gotten someone down to around 400 HP and I have a bladed Centaur prepped and their shields worn out. But it takes at least one full setups, or two rushed setups just to get that far against a good player.

Actually, I've been playing death since I started, and have played quite a few pvp matches. I have yet to kill a person in one hit, and I have every death spell you can get. I've used wraith, vampire, scarecrow, even skeleton, and I still can't kill a person in one hit.

Try Life Trap, Prism, Death Trap, Feint, Blade, Wraith. If that doesn't knock 1800+ off just about anyone unshielded I'd be surprised. Add to that Spirit Trap and Spirit Blade and you'll certainly one-hit KO.

Time after time I see my Balance opponent simply pass and pass without care and then "gg" even before a single attack has been cast. That's flat out wrong. I've gotten a giggle out of the few (very few... two for me in fact) that've done that and I've survived to heal up and win.

Can they be beaten? Of course, but it's not just luck of your draw but bad luck on theirs AND you have a lead on pips. Any of that lacking and you're toast gear or no gear, shields, HoTs, whatever. Dunt matter. Any other school you go against you can be at a disadvantage and still win if luck turns your way. With Balance your situation has to pan out perfectly and within 10 rounds you'd better have him healing or you're dead.

you have to be something more then a noob to beat a balance but it can be done they have to hit me 3 to kill me stop crying and start thinking

Yes, you certainly need to be sharp to take on Balance, but that's true for any good player. However, not everyone has your gear/level/gold/crowns. On a hypothetical LEVEL playing field of equal gear/equal level Balance with Judgement will beat you like a rented gong 9 times out of 10 without breaking a sweat. And even though they had to cast Judge 3 times, you still died, right?

The Tower Shield solution:
Tower Shield: Agreed. This is the defense for Judge. So then why can Balance layer EVERY defense on themselves while they load up for their "I Win" button? Oh and Tower too of course.

And everyone knows exactly what I'm talking about... with 6 rounds of shielding and not even a blade tossed on our Balance friend is sitting on at least a 7 pip Judge (the equivalent damage of most school big-bang cards) and it's probably more like a 10 pip... And they can only be scratched, not dented.

What can you do at that point? Cast your 6 pip monster into a guarenteed -50% shield? Then load up another spirit trap, trap, prism, trap, hex, feint, blade... oh wait they were at 14 pips two rounds ago and you're dead.

Beating a balance isn't skill. It's the luck of you getting 2 pips for their one, which dunt happen.

I've managed to win thus far without a single Tower Shield. Tower is easily countered, just like weakness or -Accuracy. Having to buy 10 treasure Towers is not what I'd call a sound balancing act for staying competitive with Balance.

Feint:

Judgement is not overpowered, it is judgement plus Feint whiih is causing the distress...

Feint when combined with a reasonably powered spell from virtualy any other school can creates a situation where the oponnent is killed instantly with no chance to reply. I cannot believe this was in the original design for wizard city, that we become just the the dead and dieing or the ones with Feint?

Absolutely true. Let's be fair, Judgement isn't the only killer. It's just the only killer no one else can get. And Judge stacked with Feint is the problem situation. Feint is another Need spell like Tower.

What's your wizard again? Oh yeah I'm:
Fire,Storm,Life,Myth/Death-to-Feint/Ice-to-Tower or
Balance,Ice/Death-to-Feint/Life-to-Satyr or whatever
Death/Ice-to-Tower/whatevertheyfeellikecuztheyalreadyhaveFeint.

Of course exceptions exist but that's the main pvp line just to be competitive. Feint and Tower Shield are your hammer and tongs, the rest of your cards are the metal to be shaped around them.


Should Judgement be fixed?
Judgment is fine, in fact balance really needs another strong spell soon as well as life; they both have only 1 spell to rely upon for their offense, this doesn't do them much good in the arena. I praise those balance wizards who have made the top 100, balance is truly a difficult school to play.

well i am now lvl 50 myth and i have a balance guy i got to say its still a cheat jugdment is .
the should lower the hit down


If anything happens, it DEFINITELY shouldn't be that Judgment loses power. Do that and we're stuck with Spec. Blast and Hydra .

I completely agree that Balance needs a hit that can bypass shielding and Judgement is necessary, it's just completely OP. Balance wizards need something solid and reliable like Judgement because Hydra and Chance Elemental Madness Shot (aka Spectral Blast) are, well, unreliable. Hydra can hit a ton or hit like a declawed kitten, and I for one think it's + and - are a good balance.

Spec blast is another matter. I think it's as much a risk for the opponent as it is for the Balance wizard

Regardless Judgement needs to be in their deck and it needs to be a hard hitter. Just not kills-three-wizards-at-once hard.

I just think the reason people complain about it so much is that they don't have any balance specific shields to use against it, then again they seem to complain about earthquake or too (these people must think that stalling is the way or the highway, or that the best offense is a good defense :roll.

I think having Tower Shield is probably enough, it's just the fact Judge hits like a Mac truck dropped from an airplane with a nuke armed on the bottom. Earthquake will make any next attack round hurt like heck, not just Judge.

Decrease Accuracy?
The Judgement card looks really cool and I think it could (not should, just could) be like a coin toss. A hard 50% Accuracy... you live, or you die. But, I'm not sure it's the best solution, it just fits the way the card looks :)

or decrease damage?
Maybe 100 per pip gained with a decrease in power each pip after the 7th. Total damage being a capped at something very dangerous like Wildbolt on steroids, which given it's accuracy and the buffs that can be layered is very reliable damage. People complain about the 1000 damage Wildbolt but if it scaled with damage and accuracy with each pip instead of just costing TWO for 1000 of melted face, that adds a different dimension to it. But I don't really have complaints about bolters. Risk vs reward. Judgement has little, if any, risk. Just big ol' fat reward.


Rock on,
~ Morgrim

Defender
Jul 18, 2009
160
Shayapt/Morgrim (have the same name for my balance wizard),

Nicely put and I agree with your viewpoints after pvping quite extensively.

I find it extremely easy to pvp with my level 28 balance wizard routinely beating wizards in the 40's without much thought.

On my storm? I got beat vs. a 28 balance when I was 49. Balance needs really little luck in 1 vs. 1 pvp matches and the rest of us do, as you highlighted in your well thought out post before mine.

Survivor
Jun 11, 2009
47
hello all

i am really ticked off right now because i just lost in a pvp against a balance person...i have learned for a that fact that tower shields are very helpful! but o let me tell you i just learned with all of the power ups a balance person had, there judgment can do seven thousand damage all together with full power pips! with a tower shield that can still kill an ice guy with all of there health with there grand equipment! not cool! please respond!

Defender
May 09, 2009
161
NO i totally disagree with that. most of balance spells aren't as powerfull as other schools spells and judgment is really the only good one they have. i know from experiance i have a balance grandmaster. there master spell power nova is nothing compared to the other schools master spells. and hydra does about the same amount of damage as power nova but only to one person. and so on look at any balance spell and just about all of them are less powerfull than any other schools

Survivor
Dec 20, 2008
4
I really don't think people should be complaining about Judgement or any other spell until they are competing at the highest level. When both wizards are lvl 50, in full pvp gear, with pvp specs, and a full sideboard of treasure cards 1 shot kills are very rare. Many of my matches last over 1 hour.

If you want to be competitive in pvp i suggest 5 points in Ice to get tower sheild and 3 points in balance for weakness.

Once you get comfortable with keeping weakness and tower sheild up, its time to watch for the big hitters. If you think your opponent is going for a 14 pip Judgement with feint up, its time to hit the sideboard and put up a treasure tower and/or a treasure weakness.

At this point the Balance wizard is probably going to cast a spell other then Judgement, and the real strategy begins. If they do cast Judgement it will do very little damage and they will have zero pips.

Survivor
Jul 08, 2009
11
People say that tower shields are the best way to combat a judgement. But if you think it can completely throw off judgement then your wrong. I am a level 41 balance wizard (i also have a grandmaster myth) and when i am in the arena people laugh at me when they put tower shield on just after i put feint, hex and the two balance blades. BUT when they laugh i just smile at them, and say "don't be to sure of yourself!" because i dealt 3000 damage while my enemy had tower shield on. That would mean if he didn't it would have been double. Guys, i know i am just rubbing this in, but i am proud to be balance. and proud to have judgement. Because if we didn't have it, what would be the point playing. Just think for one second before you open your mouths and complain.

Survivor
Oct 16, 2009
9
come on man it takes them like 10 turns to get everything set up and it takes all pips so if YOU stop trying to one hit kill balance wizards maybe you should just spam them wit attacks and most people i fought try to one hit kill you might not

Survivor
Jul 25, 2009
18
Well judgement is fine with me.Yeah its good in PvP but try it in the real storyline.I get beat by judgement in PvP but you can survive it by using weakness and tower shield.One other thing,try putting on some clothes that BLOCK balance.Really what i'm trying to say is that dont do anything with judgement.It actually puts a little jolt into you in PvP.Besides storm. Joseph Hexblood lvl 42 fire master

Survivor
May 24, 2009
8
well i am a myth warlord and i have shields for everyone..except the tower shield so pretty much balance always beats me no matter what i do. i know weakness and and tower shield would help me but i cant afford those everytime i fight a balance guy

Defender
Jul 18, 2009
160
baileythewhite wrote:
well i am a myth warlord and i have shields for everyone..except the tower shield so pretty much balance always beats me no matter what i do. i know weakness and and tower shield would help me but i cant afford those everytime i fight a balance guy


This is sadly the harsh reality of 1 vs. 1 pvp in this game. Balance is strongest. Also the other reality is you have to train in a cookie cutter fashion to be able to have a -chance- to beat them. Doesn't do much in offering up variety does it?

Although in group pvp the system seems more equal.

Survivor
Apr 13, 2009
15
tbuczek wrote:
Judgment needs to be addressed, definitely. Any spell that can kill a person in one shot is just wrong.

The tower shield argument doesn't hold water. They can throw off lower level spells, then re-feint then judge. The top lists should be evidence enough.



ok so think about this.
if judgement gets taken away, then triton, stormzilla, and even storm lord maybe gets taken away. most of my friends are diviners and i have a diviner. it would be wrong for someone to think being able to kill a person in one hit is wrong. WHEN LIFE AND ICE WIZARDS CAN KILL MALISTARE IN ONE HIT! so i wuld rethink what you said about not being able to kill a fellow wizard in 1 hit I:

Survivor
Jun 12, 2009
23
tbuczek wrote:
Judgment needs to be addressed, definitely. Any spell that can kill a person in one shot is just wrong.


Then get rid of ALL high hitting spells.

As an example, I have seen Triton, Helephant and Colosus do over 10000 in damage in the last 3 days. Meanwhile, the BEST I can get my Judgment to do is about 7500 with Balanceblade, Bladestorm, Dragonblade, Hex, Feint and my equipment bonus.

As others have said, it is a matter of strategy, not the spells themselves.


Survivor
Jun 12, 2009
23
Nosleep wrote:
Dridsuzy wrote:
I'll give feedback.


...If you haven't put five points into Ice for Tower Shield, then respec and do it. If you don't want to, then don't complain. Balance Wizards are actually at a DISADVANTAGE. If you don't believe me then level one and see for yourself.


Yea, I don't believe it.

I have a shield for every school of magic except balance. That's a crime. I should be able to shield against balance like I shield against everything else. It is just wrong. I can not shield against a balance spell but balance gets to put up shields three at once. They get more space in their decks because of this. They don't have to spend talent points to learn these shields so they get to have more spells.

No, I don't believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny nor the disadvantage that burdens balance wizards.


Okay, then give me a prism that I can use against every other school. And while we're at it, make my Hydra six headed and let him hit with each of the other schools.

Survivor
Jun 12, 2009
23
Dridsuzy wrote:

- SNIP -

Before people start yelling about the fact that THEY have to deal with getting through shields, let me reiterate a point that was probably missed. If you're a Storm Wizard, you carry a Storm Wand to get through Storm Shields and hit them with your Storm Damage. I'm a Balance Wizard who has to get through ALL THREE elemental shields to effectively use Spectral Blast or Hydra.

- SNIP -


Don't forget, we don't get a prism, they do. And for the record, I like the Mander. Now, if we are talking about minions, let's fix Spectral Minion, a complete waste of a spell in my opinion.

Survivor
Mar 01, 2009
18

Well, it's not about the spell that counts. Well, sure that judge can one hit kill an opponent, BUT, it doesn't mean there are absolutely NO ways to counter it. Come on, judge is balance, which is mainly a school that depends on blades and traps to boost their spells. So, stock up with tower shields, weakness, there are even spells that can destroy positive blades. Other than that, just attack them first. They still need time to use their blades and traps, which gives you a chance to hit first, and put them on the defensive, effectively making them try and not use judgement. Every spell has a weakness, no matter how strong. Just figure out ways to put those weaknesses to your advantage.

Explorer
Oct 12, 2009
75
i would just to let you know something. if KI takes away judgement, it only makes sense to take away heck hound tempest dryad ect. if balance got banned in pvp, balance would be NOTHING i mean NOTHING. so if this goes on, people are gonna start complaining about pirate, and meteor. next thing ya know, we gonna be left with spells like frost beetle and lighting bats. :? so stop complaining just cause you lose