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PVP will be your demise

AuthorMessage
Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Obviously i'm not the one who can't read as i've stated in atleast 4 posts in this thread alone and more i know the issue and how to chain stun.

In case you can't read again and to repeat myself i don't only do 1vs1.

As for rules there are rules and those rules are the ones set in place by KI it's just called gamemechanics and is a ruleset in itself. for a player to break this ruleset you would have to hack the gaming server and have devised a program to alter stats, spells and whatnot, which is something you can't do and therefore my statement that you can't cheat, if you can't understand that i'm not going to bother anymore.

Of course you can go 2nd and win I do it most of the time too but honestly if you can't see the problem in going first balance wize then in all honesty you don't have a grasp and don't belong in pvp until you do. This is the most wide discussed area here on these forums and on central which to be frank has a vastly bigger reader base then these forums and consist of a lot better pvp players.

And I do actually agree that opinions has to be voiced in order for things to change and i have done so many times in the past. Just last patch alone 3 of the main things i had been putting up big posts about was changed in favour of that. But the main thing i'm posting about here is that you can't cheat and that's final nomatter how you look at it.

We can agree to that some tactics are "cheap" and that chain stunning is currently an issue. You may not like certain spells, the use of certain pet talents, treasure cards, chain stunning or what not but the fact is that if it was cheating KI would have put up a ruleset making it a banable offence or disabled the use of it in pvp. So until they do that and change whatever spell or use of strategy it's not cheating.

So in closing you can argue that the tactics are "cheap" or unbalanced but your argument for calling it cheating is void.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Prospector Zeke wrote:


Because false reporting can be construed and/or used as harassment of other players, we’d like to take a moment to ensure you are aware of what does NOT fall under the category of a reportable offense:

“Chain Stunning” (admittedly, it’s not much fun for the receiving team, but it’s not a violation of the game rules).


There you have it along with everything else :-D

And just in case it doesn't post my last post even though it says it has but apparently it doesn't show up in the thread yet i'll copy paste it again. Sorry if it gets to be a double post.

I've stated in atleast 4 posts in this thread alone and more i know the issue and how to chain stun.

And to repeat myself i don't only do 1vs1.

As for rules there are rules and those rules are the ones set in place by KI it's just called gamemechanics and is a ruleset in itself. for a player to break this ruleset you would have to hack the gaming server and have devised a program to alter stats, spells and whatnot, which is something you can't do and therefore my statement that you can't cheat, if you can't understand that i'm not going to bother anymore.

Of course you can go 2nd and win I do it most of the time too but honestly if you can't see the problem in going first balance wize then in all honesty you don't have a grasp and don't belong in pvp until you do. This is the most wide discussed area here on these forums and on central which to be frank has a vastly bigger reader base then these forums and consist of a lot better pvp players.

And I do actually agree that opinions has to be voiced in order for things to change and i have done so many times in the past. Just last patch alone 3 of the main things i had been putting up big posts about was changed in favour of that. But the main thing i'm posting about here is that you can't cheat and that's final nomatter how you look at it.

We can agree to that some tactics are "cheap" and that chain stunning is currently an issue. You may not like certain spells, the use of certain pet talents, treasure cards, chain stunning or what not but the fact is that if it was cheating KI would have put up a ruleset making it a banable offence or disabled the use of it in pvp. So until they do that and change whatever spell or use of strategy it's not cheating.

So in closing you can argue that the tactics are "cheap" or unbalanced but your argument for calling it cheating is void.

Survivor
May 23, 2009
2
Hi Nico...nice string you got going here!

I started off reading everything, then half way through realized I was reading the exact same thing from the exact same people but regurgetated with more intelligent (supposedly more impressive) sounding words.

Ya'll will be (and can keep on) defining and redifining the meaning of cheating till the end of days...but you will never sway the other person(s). I will have to say this (and if someone already brought this up then I humbly apologize as I skipped half way to the end because I was tired of reading repetition), there IS cheating in pvp. There are hackers out there that know how to mess with the game. I have had my health mysteriously disappear and even my pips on occasion. I do know this exists and is not a "glitch" or "bug" as some people have tried to slough it off as. I happen to know some people who have hacker abilities...they have either told me they have done this or that it is possible.

As for the manipulation of cards...if you can possess that card, I say, "Great! Go for it...if you beat me 'cause you understand how that card can be played effectively and I can't figure out how to block it...then kudos to you...well played match :). " However, I do agree that strategies that disallow your opponents to play at all is very annoying and I am glad that KI has taken steps to eradicate that and hope they continue on this course in the future.

Well, since you invited me to read this, Nico, I have left you with my "words of wisdom" (as I see things, lol). Now I will let you and your playmates get back to the task of the question at hand "to cheat or not to cheat?" :p tee hee

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
Prospector Zeke wrote:

Because false reporting can be construed and/or used as harassment of other players, we’d like to take a moment to ensure you are aware of what does NOT fall under the category of a reportable offense:

“Chain Stunning” (admittedly, it’s not much fun for the receiving team, but it’s not a violation of the game rules).


There you have it!

I've stated in atleast 4 posts in this thread alone and more i know the issue and how to chain stun.

To repeat myself i don't only do 1vs1.

As for rules there are rules and those rules are the ones set in place by KI it's just called gamemechanics and is a ruleset in itself. for a player to break this ruleset you would have to hack the gaming server and have devised a program to alter stats, spells and whatnot, which is something you can't do and therefore my statement that you can't cheat, if you can't understand that i'm not going to bother anymore.

Of course you can go 2nd and win I do it most of the time too but honestly if you can't see the problem in going first balance wise then in all honesty you don't have a grasp and don't belong in pvp until you do. This is the most wide discussed area here on these forums and on central which to be frank has a vastly bigger reader base then these forums and consist of a lot better pvp players.

And I do actually agree that opinions has to be voiced in order for things to change and i have done so many times in the past. Just last patch alone 3 of the main things i had been putting up big posts about was changed in favour of that. But the main thing i'm posting about here is that you can't cheat and that's final nomatter how you look at it.

We can agree to that some tactics are "cheap" and that chain stunning is currently an issue. You may not like certain spells, the use of certain pet talents, treasure cards, chain stunning or what not but the fact is that if it was cheating KI would have put up a ruleset making it a banable offence or disabled the use of it in pvp. So until they do that and change whatever spell or use of strategy it's not cheating.

So in closing you can argue that the tactics are "cheap" or unbalanced but your argument for calling it cheating is void.

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
398
Personally, I think the only argument for the "people CAN cheat" side is that it violates moral and/or ethical behaivior (as KingsIsle does give us the option to use Treasure Cards, Dispells, Chain-Stunning [they may have made it much harder, but the option still exists], etc.).

Now, the problem here is that morals and ethics can vary widely. Here in the West, we see sparing an enemy as kindness and surrender as smart given the alternative (fighting to the death); according to the feudal Japanese code of Bushido, sparing an enemy is an insult and surrender is shameful.

Get the idea?

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
705
Sigh.. I give up. There's no sense in this type of incivil argument. Name-calling and disrespect aren't reasonable, mature, ways to handle the issue.

CYa lads,

Have fun slinging insults at one another.


Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332
Whilst there is no way to secure going first (yet you claim that going first is the biggest problem in PVP) it is posisble to chain stun and win and it is not a very slim chance. Only way to avoid it is if everyone on the team going first used a stun shield or that stun spell from Diego. Outside of that, it doesn't matter if you go first or second, you will still effectiviely chain stun. This is also possible in 1v1 but can only be done by a myth wizard and would be a very silly move since earthquake (even with Gargantuan) won't do much damage and will exhaust all your pips.

Once again you only do 1v1, therefore, you have no grounds to refute anything that other people may be experiencing in Team duels. And furthermore, if you are any good, you should be able to win in any duel situation. I suspect you probably only duel with Fire, Balance and or Ice which are typically suited for 1v1 duels.

I'm not surprised that you are of the view that once you can do something in wiz101 then it's not cheating. The only stringent rules that KI have so far applies to the message boads, giving out your password or account info to other people and foul languange. Those are the only three offenses, to the best of my Knowledge, that will constitute a ban.

If I recall correctly, PVP was a side thing and was not expected to have become an integral part of the game, hence there were never any formal rules set in place for the arena. Since we initially were supposed to be fighting against computer opponents and not each other; there was no need to implement rules. The NCPs can't complain. So of course, there are no rules to dueling in or out of the arena. And you cannot state any rules that the arena has either. There are simply no rules.

Because there are no rules and cheating is subjective then it would be reasonable to believe that one can infact cheat. As a matter of fact, Mordikay. I would like you to explain to us (who are not good enough) how it is possible to guard against chain stunning especially in the event that you are the ones going second. I should think that we are anxious to hear your expert advice.

The comments that reffers to you as unethical are not because the persons cannot find better arguments; it is simply calling a spade a spade. However,questioning your intelligence is subjective and is open for intrepretation and debate.

No one is asking you to abide by their code of ethics and we do not expect that you will abide by any code- whether personal or universal- as you have already demonstrated that you hold no counsel with such principles.

You are right about one thing though. KI have no written rules in PVP that states that anyone can be banned for anything and this is the point of my thread. We have been voicing our opinions and making reccommendations about the arena but for the most part KI have been unresponsive.

The way the game is set up is not for PVP because in it's current state, there can never be any balance in the arena. So the whole changing of wild bolt and stun shields does not solve anything.

I want KI to implement rules in the arena that will guide players to develop and execute good pvp strategies.

So once agian you have proven that you have not understood the thread or the purpose of the thread. i have been crying rules from the first thread up to now and you still stuck at cheating or what you'd have us beleive: "stragegy".

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
You did not read a word i said in my last post did you?

I even quote Prospector Zeke in a very recent post where he discards just about everything you said along with chain stunning saying it may be annoying but it's not cheating.

And again i'm not here to post guides on how to pvp i post guides on central as these forums are very limited and if you are looking to improve your pvp skills i'd suggest heading over there and read/post up.

I understand fully your point of this post and i have posted a good deal of threads on these forums asking to balance things out and change things that are unfair(not only in pvp) and actually quite a fair amount of the points and thread i have made have been changed in upcomming patches.

But you have to stop calling it cheating as i've even posted prof from KI staff saying it's not.

And please read more carefully what other people read as it's looks rather stupid when you continue to say stuff like i only 1vs1.

And seriously if you still can't see the problem with going first then you need to do more pvp and understand the mechanics. Going first is not subject to dispels, weakneses or shields as you don't have to guess what's comming. You can carefree wand shields and weakneses away and fully launch a non dot or big attack without the fear of a shield/weakness or dispell effect being trown on you. Safely summoning minoin and shielding it without fear of it being targeted as the person going 2nd don't know it's comming up...I could go on with the list of the advantages of going first but i won't bother.

Currently i'm playing my fire most out of my many legendary and setting up for central tournoments. I have yet to lose on my fire going first and that's the case for most good pvp'rs. 95% or so of the time a skilled pvp'r will not lose going first(another issue i suggest you read up on before posting more on the matter).

It's fine to voice ones opinion i encourage it and like I said I have done it many times before(sorry about this but in better formulated posts that have thier facts straight). But you can't go an invent rules yourself and call it cheating.

I agree with you there are things that needs to be changed in pvp and while you may think of chain stunning as the first one i know myself and just about any other pvp'r that plays competative and in tournoments would say it's the turn system.

Voice your suggestions and speak what you think is unfair, needs tweaking and balancing but please stop calling it cheating now that you have proof from a KI staff that it's not.

Explorer
Dec 21, 2008
71
"Everyone is out for themselves and will stab anyone in the back to get what they want. This world is full of greed, envy, and vindictive people. So, I would not hold my breath hoping people on this game would have a code of honor or think that there is cheating! Of course they will say that it is impossible to cheat, because they are corrupt and don't want to admit to their own shortcomings!"

Maaaaaaaan this could not be any more true if you tried. Way to hit the nail on the head man. nice job! If you have morals, do something for the people in this game that still have them! win with those morals in tact as you aspire to get warlord!

And to answer just a few of these posts, chain stunning is wrong. period.

As for quake removing stun shields.....i being ice have a bit of experience with the stun shield as i can cast it without having to be stunned in the first place. The earthquake spell removes all CHARMS AND SHIELDS. I hate to admit it the stun block counts as a shield as it is signed with the icon of a shield on its own card. This also goes for spirit armor, rebirth spirit armor and ice armor and ANY AND ALL TRAPS sadly. THEY ARE ALL SHIELDS. READ THE CARD. It doesnt matter how the shield blocks you or how it gets there its a shield. Threfore the earthquake is going to remove it no matter how much we dont like it.

the treasure cards issue..........I like to use them every so often (for example if I KNOW my enemy is gonna use leviathan or efreet or something in the current round and a tower shield is the only way I will survive, i'll grab a tower out of my treasure deck). Spamming tower shield treasures....eh i kinda ignore them because i know what they are capable of. i tend to just blast right through them with frost giant anyhow and with every wizards new friend the critical hit it negates a tower shield or its treasure alltogether.. high enough damage kinda negates the tower shield. either that or do what a Previous Poster said and spam fire elf treasures. yea 2 pips is annoying but they cant shield well against it. if your worried about treasure spell attack cards, i wouldnt worry too much. the time it takes for them to get the pips for it since it is an off school attack (meaning the power pips means nothing) it takes way too long for them to charge it. they will have to take time to heal if you blast them in the middle of the charge.

Taking minions out of pvp.........that kinda takes myth out of pvp as that is what they are known for! half of their spells are meant to summon/aid minions!

IMO, There is cheating in pvp but there isnt at the same time. this is a matter of your ethics. People with eithics torwards pvp believe that certain strategies are unfair and could COULD (thats doesnt mean IS!) be cheating.Those without ethics torwards pvp (not saying you dont have your own ethics!) prefer the thrill of seeing what strategy (or cheap tactic) the enemy can come up with and try to counter it. Just a matter of which category you fall under. I fall under the catagory of NO PVP. it bores me lol. the trash talking, being called an "X noob" put whatever you like where the X is lol it's not for me. PvE is where i excell and i will keep excelling at it. For those who like pvp. keep enjoying yourselves (or torturing yourself as it seems some people are ).

Ryan FrostShard - Legend of the Ice Arts

P.S. Queenlybluebean, your in the pvp section. Almost all posts (on any game!) are based on anger and frustration. This is why i don't pvp at all, i have no reason to be angry with the game.

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
minigiant9 wrote:
" This is why i don't pvp at all, i have no reason to be angry with the game.


Hi this is the pvp forum!

Discalimer: In order to have opinions that are going to be taken seriously you must know what you are talking about and actually pvp..

This was brought to you by your friendly pvp community.

Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332
Tytannia wrote:
Hi Nico...nice string you got going here!

I started off reading everything, then half way through realized I was reading the exact same thing from the exact same people but regurgetated with more intelligent (supposedly more impressive) sounding words.

Ya'll will be (and can keep on) defining and redifining the meaning of cheating till the end of days...but you will never sway the other person(s). I will have to say this (and if someone already brought this up then I humbly apologize as I skipped half way to the end because I was tired of reading repetition), there IS cheating in pvp. There are hackers out there that know how to mess with the game. I have had my health mysteriously disappear and even my pips on occasion. I do know this exists and is not a "glitch" or "bug" as some people have tried to slough it off as. I happen to know some people who have hacker abilities...they have either told me they have done this or that it is possible.

As for the manipulation of cards...if you can possess that card, I say, "Great! Go for it...if you beat me 'cause you understand how that card can be played effectively and I can't figure out how to block it...then kudos to you...well played match :). " However, I do agree that strategies that disallow your opponents to play at all is very annoying and I am glad that KI has taken steps to eradicate that and hope they continue on this course in the future.

Well, since you invited me to read this, Nico, I have left you with my "words of wisdom" (as I see things, lol). Now I will let you and your playmates get back to the task of the question at hand "to cheat or not to cheat?" :p tee hee

Oh hey Tat!

Good to see you finally managed to get some reading in lol. Too much gardening, I suppose.

Yeah we are pretty much repeating ourselves here since everybody is refusing to accept everyone else’s points of view lol. So the reinforcing of points comes into play; and arguments get recycled.

Unfortunately the arena has become a bitter pill for most. It reminds me of the movie Gladiator with Russell Crowe. The only rule is fight until your opponent is defeated. This should not be the theme of any part of a "kids friendly" game.

For the most part, I wanted to highlight the challenges that people face in pvp and implore KI to implement rules as far as spell casting in the arena is concerned. But somehow we got stuck on whether or not people can cheat in the game and have drifted far away from the bottom line: PVP need rules.



Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332
I certainly did not read a word you posted because your post was still being reviewed when I posted my response.

I am not sure where you got that quote from Zeke but it would be better if you can provide a link so that we can see his full response to whatever issue he was responding to.

I find it a bit contradictory though, that Zeke would be saying that chain stunning is not cheating yet they attempted to fix chain stunning by activating stun shields. That's like punishing someone for something they are allowed to do; it doesn't make any sense. If there are no rules against chain stunning, why bother with the shields?

Incidentally, it was an error on KI's part because earthquake removes all charms and wards and stun shields are wards, so naturally earthquake will remove the shields. What they probably should have done is use the stun resist aura spell instead of the stun shield. That way the aura will remain around you until the four turns have lapsed or until you use another aura spell.

It is irresponsible of KI to be telling people that a particular action is not a reportable or bannable offense and then in the background they are "fixing" the same thing that they claim is not an offense. If it is allowed then don’t fix it.

No one is asking you to post any guide anywhere but if you are going on people's post to respond to problems that they are facing then the responsible thing to do would be to offer your help instead of telling them to stop complaining. If you don't want to help then leave people's post alone and that's the end of that.

I read your guide to PVP on central and you stated that you only do 1v1 and it wasn't a guide, it's basically a "best gear to wear in the arena" post as you offered no suggested strategies for dueling in the arena.

I didn't expect you to respond to combating the chain stun because you and I both know that there is no way to guard against that strategy. They only thing that you can do is use the stun resist aura that is trainable at Diego and that is contingent upon you or your team going first. Outside of that there is no counter to it.

*********
The arena gives players a chance to test their skills against other players. It was initially suppose to be a place of friendly duels and to encourage sportsmanship in the game. It was a very good idea that KI implemented in the game since we all got bored after reaching grandmaster level and had nothing else to do. The one bad thing about the arena, to date, is that there are no specific rules for the arena.

The only rules, if any, are the general rules that apply to wizard 101 game play. Because it is a card based game and players combat computer generated enemies, they were never any need for rules to spell casting. However, with the advent of PVP it should not have been business as usual, as far as spell casting is concerned.

There has to be rules if a player is fighting against another player in order to allow for fair play. Just imagine football or cricket without any rules. Not to mention basketball. The players would probably kill each other because each player is left to their own conscience and while some may play fair others may not.

To keep sports like soccer, cricket and basketball fun and fair, rules are implemented so that players are not left to their own devices.

I am not sure why KI thought they could get away with allowing players to compete against each other in an arena and not put rules in place for such a venture. They have dropped the ball big time and need to make amends.

There is no cause or reason to fix any spells. No school is too powerful and no spell is over powered. I say this because the spells were not made for PVP; they are for PVE. So if I'm getting stunned or bolted in the arena; it is not because those spells are bad or too powerful or needs to be fixed. It’s because my opponent is allowed to use them.

There is no rule against using a stun spell or using wilt bolt. There is also no rule against using one spell for every round. Fortunately the pip dynamics of the game does not allow you to use certain high level spells in succession but elucidate almost made that possible until somebody saw the light and took it out. However, 0-2 pips spells can be used successively over any number of rounds, namely, stuns, smokescreen, shields, dispels, weakness, and so on.

Now there is nothing wrong with using any of the spells mentioned above and using them is certainly not cheating. But if you were to use dispel, for instance, for 5 consecutive rounds on your opponent, do you think that is playing fair? It is clearly not cheating because there are no rules that discourages this sort of behavior in PVP but how is the other player suppose to respond to this sort of dueling strategy?

Let is not forget that this is not an adult only game. We have kids playing too and we try to instill in them a sense of what is right and wrong from the earliest years of their youth. Now if a child should describe the scenario about to his/her parent who does not play the game and asked said parent if it was fair for the opponent to act in such a manner. What answer might that parent give to his/her upset child?

Kind in mind that the answer will affect the child's sense of right and wrong and what is acceptable behavior. I am saying all this to say that PVP need rules and cannot continue the way it is now.

We are sick and tired of being sick and tired of PVP. Do something about it.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Well it's about time Nico, you hit the nail right on the head! Of Course, I expect Mordikay to come up with some lame response, but there is not much more to say, you are absolutely and unequivically correct in your last post!

Now, some of those said cheaters and unethical beings, of course, will have to go and criticize your posts, or they will have to admit their own faults!

Now, I have seen where Prospector Zeke has posted about chain stunning! No, KI does not have many punishable offense for Ban! I would not expect someone to be banned because of ChainStunning, but It sure would be nice if they lost all Arena Tickets and Rank! Teach them a lesson!

Oh and yes, KI does fix things because, as you may not consider it cheating, it was "Unfair" so KI changed it. IE, and this is what FoxFyr keeps whining about, is tradeble enchanted treasure cards! Chain Stunning, like Nico said, if Chain Stunning is not unfair and a cheat, why would KI even bother putting up stun shields? Why would KI even post that they were going to make Earthquake no longer remove said stun shields?

Some people only play 1v1, because it is a lot easier to defend against those that cheat in a 1v1 situation, I agree with that. However, it is fun to play in 3v3 and 4v4, until you reach those teams that are insistant upon playing "Unfairly"

I will agree with Mordikay on one instance now and one instance only. PvP is Unfair with regards to whom goes first. The one sure way to even this out, is having each and every round a random toss up! Not sure if KI could even handle that scenario, but it is a suggestion!

Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
At least your replies are getting better (yes that was a compliment on my part).

And yeah the forum has been a bit buggy the last couple of days with actually showing the posts even though it says it has gone through.

As for the link with Zeke answering here it is: https://www.wizard101.com/posts/list/29842.ftl The OP is about 3-4 days old i think.

And i can't really answer what is up with it that KI on one hand is trying to fix it and didn't succed 100% but giving out answer like Zeke does is because like i've said many times before. If you can use it ingame it's not cheating and you can't be reported for using this particular "cheap" tactic. There might be things you can do in this game that can get you banned although other then faul langue i doubt it but for certain this aint one of them, aka not cheating.

As for how to counter chain stunning I encourge people to think for themself and figure it out for themself as for when i want to learn or improve such things i find it more rewarding learning it for myself. There are currently 3 threads of the first page on central somewhat regarding this topic and giving answer.

As for the pvp guide i have on central it's called "Next generation PvP" and was made because in that period and still many pvp players had problems adapting to PvP after CL with the new spells, crit, block, pet talents, training point, heal boost ect ect. So i wrote that guide so any new and old players could see what could be done to make the playing field even for everyone. You could see it as gain the most possible advantage aswell depending on your viewpoint i guess.

Your describtion of arena is all fine and dandy but you can't assume or make players in any game with pvp be like you want. Despite what you might think of me i'm quite civil and polite when i pvp always ending my battles with "gg". Most of the time i'm just quiet when battling unless i feel in a particular good good and the opponent is friendly chatty. But in pvp in any game there will always be sore loser and immature people and personally i belive you have to learn to ignore it.

As for rules I still belive there are the rules in place meaning the game mechanics. Personally I don't mind if they extend or build on these rules from KI's side for example like some of the ruleset set on central tournoments. No resist over 52%, no more then 2 wild bolts per battle ect ect. These are of course only example from central and maybe something similar will come in the future from KI.

From the newletters we have learned that KI is in the procces of making ladder enter the game and this might mean adding a more extended ruleset aswell and hopefully something like KI tournoment signup is on the horizont aswell.

Until those things come the ruleset and rules are as the game mechanics diktate and you currently cannot cheat. There are "cheap" tactics but no cheats and i encourage players like you and me voicing thier opinions on these forums to make KI see known issues.

My beef with this was how you wrote up the entire OP and resorted to calling it cheating when it wasn't. If you'd called the post "idea's for future pvp", "Balancing pvp" or something similar I would have responded a lot differently in previous posts.

As for your example of the children I tell my child that everyone has the same option avalible to them so if you can't beat a certain player or overcome something you have to learn and practice until your mental acuity or skill is great enough to do so.

Astrologist
Aug 21, 2009
1205
darthjt wrote:

Some people only play 1v1, because it is a lot easier to defend against those that cheat in a 1v1 situation, I agree with that. However, it is fun to play in 3v3 and 4v4, until you reach those teams that are insistant upon playing "Unfairly"

I will agree with Mordikay on one instance now and one instance only. PvP is Unfair with regards to whom goes first. The one sure way to even this out, is having each and every round a random toss up! Not sure if KI could even handle that scenario, but it is a suggestion!


I prefer 4v4 play and not going first isn't such a big issue as long as beguile and dispels aren't being used by the team that does go first. If I am on the team that goes last with a fire on my side we can usually reduce targeting and get first stun which allows us also to have the first round of large attacks. So I don't see the issue of who goes first and who goes last as much of an issue as being able to dispel and beguile. If you go first you get to see what negatives are on you, and what shields are down before being attacked, and what shields are up before attacking. The pace and damage being dealt in 4v4 PvP is however of the extent that knowing such things often does not affect how you play so much as playing is often better than waiting, though you may wait to rid newly placed shields. I guess what I am saying is what side goes first and last doesn't often impact the outcome of a match that much when better players are playing, but dispels and beguiles certainly affects the outcomes quite a lot if the side that goes first uses and abuses them.

Survivor
Oct 24, 2010
27
I believe PvP should be changed as well. Until it is, I'm done with it. In my opinion, removing Treasure Cards, Crown Gear, and balancing the points you gain/lose from matches would fix PvP entirely. I'm not trying to complain, I'm giving my advice to better the game we love. The majority of my wizards are Knight or above, so losing isn't my problem with PvP. My problem is having to play unfairly to win.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
403
NicoUzumaki wrote:
I certainly did not read a word you posted because your post was still being reviewed when I posted my response.

I am not sure where you got that quote from Zeke but it would be better if you can provide a link so that we can see his full response to whatever issue he was responding to.

I find it a bit contradictory though, that Zeke would be saying that chain stunning is not cheating yet they attempted to fix chain stunning by activating stun shields. That's like punishing someone for something they are allowed to do; it doesn't make any sense. If there are no rules against chain stunning, why bother with the shields?

Incidentally, it was an error on KI's part because earthquake removes all charms and wards and stun shields are wards, so naturally earthquake will remove the shields. What they probably should have done is use the stun resist aura spell instead of the stun shield. That way the aura will remain around you until the four turns have lapsed or until you use another aura spell.

It is irresponsible of KI to be telling people that a particular action is not a reportable or bannable offense and then in the background they are "fixing" the same thing that they claim is not an offense. If it is allowed then don’t fix it.

No one is asking you to post any guide anywhere but if you are going on people's post to respond to problems that they are facing then the responsible thing to do would be to offer your help instead of telling them to stop complaining. If you don't want to help then leave people's post alone and that's the end of that.

I read your guide to PVP on central and you stated that you only do 1v1 and it wasn't a guide, it's basically a "best gear to wear in the arena" post as you offered no suggested strategies for dueling in the arena.

I didn't expect you to respond to combating the chain stun because you and I both know that there is no way to guard against that strategy. They only thing that you can do is use the stun resist aura that is trainable at Diego and that is contingent upon you or your team going first. Outside of that there is no counter to it.

*********
The arena gives players a chance to test their skills against other players. It was initially suppose to be a place of friendly duels and to encourage sportsmanship in the game. It was a very good idea that KI implemented in the game since we all got bored after reaching grandmaster level and had nothing else to do. The one bad thing about the arena, to date, is that there are no specific rules for the arena.

The only rules, if any, are the general rules that apply to wizard 101 game play. Because it is a card based game and players combat computer generated enemies, they were never any need for rules to spell casting. However, with the advent of PVP it should not have been business as usual, as far as spell casting is concerned.

There has to be rules if a player is fighting against another player in order to allow for fair play. Just imagine football or cricket without any rules. Not to mention basketball. The players would probably kill each other because each player is left to their own conscience and while some may play fair others may not.

To keep sports like soccer, cricket and basketball fun and fair, rules are implemented so that players are not left to their own devices.

I am not sure why KI thought they could get away with allowing players to compete against each other in an arena and not put rules in place for such a venture. They have dropped the ball big time and need to make amends.

There is no cause or reason to fix any spells. No school is too powerful and no spell is over powered. I say this because the spells were not made for PVP; they are for PVE. So if I'm getting stunned or bolted in the arena; it is not because those spells are bad or too powerful or needs to be fixed. It’s because my opponent is allowed to use them.

There is no rule against using a stun spell or using wilt bolt. There is also no rule against using one spell for every round. Fortunately the pip dynamics of the game does not allow you to use certain high level spells in succession but elucidate almost made that possible until somebody saw the light and took it out. However, 0-2 pips spells can be used successively over any number of rounds, namely, stuns, smokescreen, shields, dispels, weakness, and so on.

Now there is nothing wrong with using any of the spells mentioned above and using them is certainly not cheating. But if you were to use dispel, for instance, for 5 consecutive rounds on your opponent, do you think that is playing fair? It is clearly not cheating because there are no rules that discourages this sort of behavior in PVP but how is the other player suppose to respond to this sort of dueling strategy?

Let is not forget that this is not an adult only game. We have kids playing too and we try to instill in them a sense of what is right and wrong from the earliest years of their youth. Now if a child should describe the scenario about to his/her parent who does not play the game and asked said parent if it was fair for the opponent to act in such a manner. What answer might that parent give to his/her upset child?

Kind in mind that the answer will affect the child's sense of right and wrong and what is acceptable behavior. I am saying all this to say that PVP need rules and cannot continue the way it is now.

We are sick and tired of being sick and tired of PVP. Do something about it.


Ok the main rule in PvP is they are no rules. Personally i think PvP is fine the way it is. Now if KI thought PvP was inappropriate for kids they wouldnt have put it in the game. All this cheating your claiming is just " innovative strategy." Nothing wrong with that. I can easily tell your an older player, just because of the way you type. Maybe you even have kids, idk? If you dont think kids should be playing in the arena, thats your opinion. Btw can you stop posting everything in color. its getting really hard on my eyes.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
403
FoxFyr wrote:
Personally, I think the only argument for the "people CAN cheat" side is that it violates moral and/or ethical behaivior (as KingsIsle does give us the option to use Treasure Cards, Dispells, Chain-Stunning [they may have made it much harder, but the option still exists], etc.).

Now, the problem here is that morals and ethics can vary widely. Here in the West, we see sparing an enemy as kindness and surrender as smart given the alternative (fighting to the death); according to the feudal Japanese code of Bushido, sparing an enemy is an insult and surrender is shameful.

Get the idea?


Surrender is shameful. thats why i never flee in PvP, or think nicely to those who do.

Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332
@Mordikay, Thanks for providing the link to Zeke’s response. He said quite a mouthful on that post, its understandable why you didn’t quote all of that. He could simply have said no one can be banned for using any spells in the game and that would have pretty much summed it up in a nutshell.

I have checked this website and there are no published rules save for those outlined in the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy; which are legal statements governing the use of Products and Services provided by KingsIsle Entertainment Inc. Such terms and conditions are applicable to Wizard 101 and Wizard 101.com since they are products of KingsIsle Entertainment Inc. However, wizard101.com has published code of conduct that governs the use of the site. Such conditions may also be applicable to wizard101 game.

The rules are geared towards behavior that may be illegal or otherwise egregious, such as soliciting personal information, copyright infringements or uploading files that contains a virus (to name a few). But as it relates to questing, duels and trading, there are no established rules to govern such activities. There is even no penalty for being rude or scamming someone out of treasure cards.

According to Zeke, you cannot report someone for being rude, spamming or for falsely reporting you (see link provided in Mordikay’s post). Even though such behaviors are questionable, at best, players are responsible for whom they associate with and for the decisions they make with respect to accepting friends, trading, etc.

While there is no need for rules to PVE, the arena certainly need rules. There need to be an established code of conduct for PVP where players who are found to be in breach of such rules are subject to disciplinary actions. The type of sanction would of course depend on the severity of the breach.

I hear rumors going around that earthquake will be “fix”. Earthquake does not need to be fixed. Earthquake removes wards and charms as is displayed on the spell card. All shields, as far as I know are wards, hence the argument that it should not remove stun shields is void. KingsIsle needs to find a better way to prevent chain stunning. A stun aura is trainable at Diego, lean it.

There will always be a conflict between PVE and PVP, until KingsIsle find a reasonable solution to the existing problem, instead of those half-hearted attempts at quelling complaints. They need to look at the root cause of the problems that people face in PVP and find ways to solve those problems.

One solution might be to have different spells for the arena. A simpler solution could be PVP code of conduct. I do not expect them to ban people for everything but there are lighter sanctions they can be levied against unscrupulous persons. Such sanctions could include but not limited to, loosing arena tickets, loosing a rank, being banned from the arena for a period of time, eg a hour or a day, and so on.

We are looking for permanent solutions to the problems that beset us in PVP and not the simplistic approach that we are currently experiencing. A lot of us have complained but offer solutions; take these under advisement and I’m sure with all the creative minds that KingsIsle has, they can come up with something exceptional.

There are a lot of intelligent people playing this game, please no not think that we will accept mediocrity. Find a permanent solution to the problems that are ailing PVP so that we can get back to enjoying ALL that wizard101 has to offer (paramount among these is PVP).

Survivor
Aug 10, 2009
22
Hmm seems like a good topic to start ranting on...

1.)People are cheap in PvP is it cheating No chain stunners still chain stun so how was that fixed... Wild bolt can hit for over 2k it has happend to me several times, how was this fixed.

2.)KI took out Polymorphs for low levels Fixed

3.)To say you got beat by a minion Just Sad really Sad (Never have I ever been beat up by a minion never) sorry but this one made me laughed.

ok lets discuss this Chain stunners in first part easy way to kill them

First have team stun before they do Next use simple to reduce pip for use than attack before they do hmmm (not hard I have beat plenty of chain stun teams)

Now storms wild bolt still Great card and cast BIG Damage (Shields come to mind over and over or efreet its not going to hit you for a lot time and time again and I barely see it spammed in arena like i used too.

Yes there are people who down rank myself included why tho hmm maybe because we dont like to wait over an hour for a match trust me its not for tickets i have well over 5k in tickets, they just keep building up

I am a Legendary Fire and the only school I have a hard time with is Ice when they blade right angel is a BEAST in the arena are they cheating NO its just a great card that over time will KILL anyone..I get lucky if I am able to go first but lets face it only have 7 shields total for ice and not all goes in PVP deck but can I beat them Yes in 1v1 but very hard in 2v2 and up when there are two or more of them.

As far as Life just Healing Ummm thier Life thats thier job to heal how could you even say that comment and the good ones get around dispel and minus 50

I tend to see both sides of the story and both bring valid points into it but to say they cheat hmmm iffy I think they are CHEAP Just like chain stunners just like they got rid of treasure cards that are not your school in PvP because it was cheap but what did KI do made Vials for all the things that were banned so where are we now back to square one.

My thought on a PvP mod sounds good, but what will they look over for real if a system is in place thier is not much we can do but rant about it look at all the post about Ice school now for real but yet will KI change it I highly doubt it is it unfair Yes is it cheating NO its a one spell miracle is all no skill
needed spell.


Defender
Feb 11, 2010
105
What i mean when i say there are actually rules set in place for pvp is that there is gamemechanics. These are a ruleset in themself as you cannot go outside the set paramitors of the game mechanics.

They are not written down on a piece of paper or a code of conduct but they are written down as they are the core of the programming code and as mention when you can't go outside the coding you can't cheat.

Cba to keep writing down suggestion here as this forum is too slow for that sorta thing and central is probably read more by the developers anyways.

I did write like 5 page long post a while ago on these forums called "The basic realities of arena dueling *updated* which was a continueation of Nick. S original one posting most of not all of the issue with arena after CL if you want to look it up.

Mastermind
Jun 06, 2009
398
darthjt wrote:
Well it's about time Nico, you hit the nail right on the head! Of Course, I expect Mordikay to come up with some lame response, but there is not much more to say, you are absolutely and unequivically correct in your last post!

Now, some of those said cheaters and unethical beings,


It's a combat situation. Define "unethical."

of course, will have to go and criticize your posts, or they will have to admit their own faults!

Not much to say here before "unethical in a combat situation" is defined.

Now, I have seen where Prospector Zeke has posted about chain stunning! No, KI does not have many punishable offense for Ban! I would not expect someone to be banned because of ChainStunning,

Good. You're getting the idea that it's an overgrown strategy.

but It sure would be nice if they lost all Arena Tickets and Rank! Teach them a lesson!

Never mind. Oh, and about that: let's take away all of a person's Arena Tickets and Rank if they boost up a Judgement, Triton, Centaur, etc.! That'll show those mean, nasty folks who like powerful strategies! Yeah. Sarcasm.

Oh and yes, KI does fix things because, as you may not consider it cheating, it was "Unfair" so KI changed it.

Do you see KingsIsle removing the Stun feature? I don't. You just screwed some of your own points.

IE, and this is what FoxFyr keeps whining about, is tradeble enchanted treasure cards!

1: It's not whining.
2: I've suggested alternatives to trading.
3: That's irrelevant.

Chain Stunning, like Nico said, if Chain Stunning is not unfair and a cheat, why would KI even bother putting up stun shields? Why would KI even post that they were going to make Earthquake no longer remove said stun shields?

If Chain Stunning IS unfair and cheating, why would KingsIsle keep Stuns in the game?

Some people only play 1v1, because it is a lot easier to defend against those that cheat in a 1v1 situation, I agree with that.

It is indeed a lot harder to pull off a successful strategy in 1v1.

However, it is fun to play in 3v3 and 4v4, until you reach those teams that are insistant upon playing "Unfairly"

DEFINE "UNFAIR."

I will agree with Mordikay on one instance now and one instance only. PvP is Unfair with regards to whom goes first.

Oh no! Someone's at a disadvantage that PvE couldn't prepare them for! Hey, wait a minute....

The one sure way to even this out, is having each and every round a random toss up!

A roll for initiative? Hmm, sounds vaguely similar to that system in AD&D....

Not sure if KI could even handle that scenario, but it is a suggestion!

*Sigh* And we now insult KingsIsle's intelligence. How is it that your vitriol gets through the moderators?

Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332
@ Daniel TFlame: PVP is not fine the way it is. There are some things that need to be sorted out. It is not inappropriate for kids either but these “innovative strategies” as you so call them are causing a lot of disorder in the arena and the effect it has is that spells get changed and mess thing up for everybody. We don’t want our spells changed; it’s PVP that needs to change.

@ Mordikay: I don’t agree that game mechanics are rules. The game cannot operate without certain default settings. You cannot drive a car without gas, wheels or the keys for that matter. But none of these conditions have any bearing on the road safety rules. It’s just the way the car is designed to operate. Same thing goes for game mechanics, there has to be game mechanics for the game to work but there doesn’t have to be any rules.

Maybe you or I do not have the answers to PVP. But the fact of the matter is there is a problem and while I had elected to not get into the whole PVP mess; I realized that whether or not I PVP, it is affecting me. Therefore, I have to get proactive and try and do something about it. Falmea and her team do read the comments on this site. As for Central, I don’t think that they personally do but they have people employed to check out those posts over there.

I’ll create a duplicate post on central and see where it goes. If you could provide a link to the thread you so described above, I’d be much obliged. I don’t feel up to sifting through tons of post to find it.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
FoxFyr wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Well it's about time Nico, you hit the nail right on the head! Of Course, I expect Mordikay to come up with some lame response, but there is not much more to say, you are absolutely and unequivically correct in your last post!

Now, some of those said cheaters and unethical beings,


It's a combat situation. Define "unethical."

of course, will have to go and criticize your posts, or they will have to admit their own faults!

Not much to say here before "unethical in a combat situation" is defined.

Now, I have seen where Prospector Zeke has posted about chain stunning! No, KI does not have many punishable offense for Ban! I would not expect someone to be banned because of ChainStunning,

Good. You're getting the idea that it's an overgrown strategy.

but It sure would be nice if they lost all Arena Tickets and Rank! Teach them a lesson!

Never mind. Oh, and about that: let's take away all of a person's Arena Tickets and Rank if they boost up a Judgement, Triton, Centaur, etc.! That'll show those mean, nasty folks who like powerful strategies! Yeah. Sarcasm.

Oh and yes, KI does fix things because, as you may not consider it cheating, it was "Unfair" so KI changed it.

Do you see KingsIsle removing the Stun feature? I don't. You just screwed some of your own points.

IE, and this is what FoxFyr keeps whining about, is tradeble enchanted treasure cards!

1: It's not whining.
2: I've suggested alternatives to trading.
3: That's irrelevant.

Chain Stunning, like Nico said, if Chain Stunning is not unfair and a cheat, why would KI even bother putting up stun shields? Why would KI even post that they were going to make Earthquake no longer remove said stun shields?

If Chain Stunning IS unfair and cheating, why would KingsIsle keep Stuns in the game?

Some people only play 1v1, because it is a lot easier to defend against those that cheat in a 1v1 situation, I agree with that.

It is indeed a lot harder to pull off a successful strategy in 1v1.

However, it is fun to play in 3v3 and 4v4, until you reach those teams that are insistant upon playing "Unfairly"

DEFINE "UNFAIR."

I will agree with Mordikay on one instance now and one instance only. PvP is Unfair with regards to whom goes first.

Oh no! Someone's at a disadvantage that PvE couldn't prepare them for! Hey, wait a minute....

The one sure way to even this out, is having each and every round a random toss up!

A roll for initiative? Hmm, sounds vaguely similar to that system in AD&D....

Not sure if KI could even handle that scenario, but it is a suggestion!

*Sigh* And we now insult KingsIsle's intelligence. How is it that your vitriol gets through the moderators?


What is Unethical in a combat situation? Are you serious? You are either someone with absolutely no morals foxfyr or no intelligence what so ever!
Ever hear of the Geneva Convention? It is a treaty of acceptable and moral code during combat!

Judgment is not cheating, Chain Stunning, however is an unethical behavior! Such as firing at paratroopers! Yes, the Evil, unmoral, unethical beings will fire at person that can't do anything, but I don't expect you to understand what Honor and Integrity are FoxFyr!

Oh, and would you please stop trying to answer a question with a question? The question was, if Chain stunning was so "Fair" why would KI add stun shields after a Stun was played? Just because you don't have an answer, you want me to justify why KI didn't just remove stuns? I am not a KI programmer! I have no idea why KI does some of the things they do!

Then you want me to define "Unfair" again! You wont grasp the concept, so I wont even waste my breath! You want the easy way to win and not an actual strategy! You want people to just stand there and let you shoot them, which is why you whine and complain about these posts! You want your enchanted treasure cards back so you can easily make them and trade them, so all your cheating friends can have them... Sorry but not this time!

My posts make it published, because I tell the truth and how it is! I back up my publishings with facts and figures, not assumptions! You however, have not come up with one clear rebuttle and have had many of your posts and topics Removed!

Administrator
Alright that's enough. Take it out in the arena, not on the message boards.