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Heals/Guardian Spirit in PvP

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 21, 2017
5
There's been SO many times where I am doing a match and I get a life in PvP.

Life is kinda overpowered. They changed critical for damage spells, but not healing spells, like Satyr. When a life heals it does like 3k+ and if you're facing that from second it makes SO much more difficult to kill the life.

Guardian spirit is another problem. Imagine killing the other person fair and square, but yet this life you're facing has a spell that can bring them back after being killed. No other school has anything like that.
They come back, if they critical, with 3k+ health if there's no sanctuary. With Sanctuary you're looking at 5k+

In my opinions, guardian spirit is a very unfair spell in PvP considering the objective is to kill them. You kill them and you do not get any credit for it.

I don't know, I just feel like going against life, especially from second, when they have a decent amount of damage, pierce and resist, AND can critical their heals is a bit more unfair than going against any other school.

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
494
Hi there I can't help but emphasize your frustration in PvP. Let me start by saying fighting any school from second is a disadvantage, so now that we got that out of the way lets go into specific details as to why you and many like you may feel guardian is op. First, off I agree that beating someone once should not leave room for a second takedown if done fair and square. Secondly, we both know that pvp is far from fair especially at max rank with the rng(random number generator) system in place. The spell itself isn't broken as I stated with juju jade juju wasn't the problem. As you mention stat wise critical, incoming and outgoing heal along with sanctuary have an increased amount of effect on how life performs. Now I disagree that critical heals should be nerfed because of its a nonaggressive type spell.

Bubble control can only be done properly by the person who goes first in the match hence why it encourages you to walk with infection tc or life dispels if possible to alternate between strategies. What I realize is every school has its major advantages and disadvantages depending on positioning and play style you choose to adapt too. What I do believe and will always encourage is for jade gears to be ban from pvp 100%. In no way, possible should anyone have resist that exceeds the 25%-50% ratio, whereas pierce should always be half or max resist this is why shield was made begin to with.

Until gears have been modified against all schools no spell nerf or buff should be implemented other than loremaster and efreet along with abominable weaver. These spells definitely need a rework because they break the game. An ice with mass resist 65% universal resist being the least with 105% damage or more and a 2 pip bubble of increase 35%damage that lands them in the 140 storm category damage should no way by any means have access to a spell that does 950-1150(1450) max base damage and gives a -75% shield not to mention having a 35% pierce and kI needs to realize that this spell makes pvp unhealthy. What can be done, to make this spell more balance is changing the effect to a 400 heal over time.

As for balance loremaster, I think most of us can agree a 4 pip spam spell with 2 debuffs is a bit broken with 470 damage base(770) max enchant and should be changed to 5 pip if you want to keep it how it is. Otherwise, this spell should have a base max damage of 400 with only a 25% debuff like a luminous weaver with mantle being removed. Having no access to mass buffs is not an excuse for balance and we can already see balance is able to achieve 40% pierce with a 100%+ damage a gaze that offers a free bubble 25% and a heal that heal almost the same as a satyr. People don't abuse a spell because it's bad they do it because it offers more winnable chances than other spells
, but when it becomes spammable for the ease of low pip cost that's when the problem starts damage wise.

Fire has now been the major damage school in wiz and no one can deny this and i notice that much more now in gears. Saying fire has always been the dot school now so that does matter is irrelevant and poor judgment on analysis and data. Stats wise I have made a fire standing at 140% damage 59% universal resist with 37-40% pierce max and let me tell you to stun block into shrike or shield shrike puts fire at enough pips to come out with major damage which in my opinion is very nasty. In no way possible for any school at all, no way should anyone have the ability to 2-3 shot anyone in PVP who actually uses shields. That defies the logic off strategy hence why max pvp will always be broken. With that being said fire having access to a spell that does 895 base damage is more than enough and should not have the benifit of having a -90 weakness that is beyond busted and needs to be fixed as soon as possible.Setting in pvp should also be checked on if you want mass resistance against certain school damage must be the sacrifice in its place but like any game, people will always try to find some sort of advantage over other players. But I will propose a new proposition for pvp in my own post soon.

Survivor
Feb 16, 2012
15
angellifeheart on Feb 6, 2019 wrote:
Hi there I can't help but emphasize your frustration in PvP. Let me start by saying fighting any school from second is a disadvantage, so now that we got that out of the way lets go into specific details as to why you and many like you may feel guardian is op. First, off I agree that beating someone once should not leave room for a second takedown if done fair and square. Secondly, we both know that pvp is far from fair especially at max rank with the rng(random number generator) system in place. The spell itself isn't broken as I stated with juju jade juju wasn't the problem. As you mention stat wise critical, incoming and outgoing heal along with sanctuary have an increased amount of effect on how life performs. Now I disagree that critical heals should be nerfed because of its a nonaggressive type spell.

Bubble control can only be done properly by the person who goes first in the match hence why it encourages you to walk with infection tc or life dispels if possible to alternate between strategies. What I realize is every school has its major advantages and disadvantages depending on positioning and play style you choose to adapt too. What I do believe and will always encourage is for jade gears to be ban from pvp 100%. In no way, possible should anyone have resist that exceeds the 25%-50% ratio, whereas pierce should always be half or max resist this is why shield was made begin to with.

Until gears have been modified against all schools no spell nerf or buff should be implemented other than loremaster and efreet along with abominable weaver. These spells definitely need a rework because they break the game. An ice with mass resist 65% universal resist being the least with 105% damage or more and a 2 pip bubble of increase 35%damage that lands them in the 140 storm category damage should no way by any means have access to a spell that does 950-1150(1450) max base damage and gives a -75% shield not to mention having a 35% pierce and kI needs to realize that this spell makes pvp unhealthy. What can be done, to make this spell more balance is changing the effect to a 400 heal over time.

As for balance loremaster, I think most of us can agree a 4 pip spam spell with 2 debuffs is a bit broken with 470 damage base(770) max enchant and should be changed to 5 pip if you want to keep it how it is. Otherwise, this spell should have a base max damage of 400 with only a 25% debuff like a luminous weaver with mantle being removed. Having no access to mass buffs is not an excuse for balance and we can already see balance is able to achieve 40% pierce with a 100%+ damage a gaze that offers a free bubble 25% and a heal that heal almost the same as a satyr. People don't abuse a spell because it's bad they do it because it offers more winnable chances than other spells
, but when it becomes spammable for the ease of low pip cost that's when the problem starts damage wise.

Fire has now been the major damage school in wiz and no one can deny this and i notice that much more now in gears. Saying fire has always been the dot school now so that does matter is irrelevant and poor judgment on analysis and data. Stats wise I have made a fire standing at 140% damage 59% universal resist with 37-40% pierce max and let me tell you to stun block into shrike or shield shrike puts fire at enough pips to come out with major damage which in my opinion is very nasty. In no way possible for any school at all, no way should anyone have the ability to 2-3 shot anyone in PVP who actually uses shields. That defies the logic off strategy hence why max pvp will always be broken. With that being said fire having access to a spell that does 895 base damage is more than enough and should not have the benifit of having a -90 weakness that is beyond busted and needs to be fixed as soon as possible.Setting in pvp should also be checked on if you want mass resistance against certain school damage must be the sacrifice in its place but like any game, people will always try to find some sort of advantage over other players. But I will propose a new proposition for pvp in my own post soon.
Nice way to reply. Please don't hijack the post. OP was talking about Life and more specifically healing and guardian spirit.

I half-agree with OP. Life is overpowered, but only in high level range, where life mastery amulets and healing in general isn't the norm anymore for other schools.

You can't pack infection or life dispels in your deck for ranked pvp because :
1. They are only applicable to people who heal, something completely absent from schools other than life (Healing current is an exception, but isn't an issue since storm doesn't have 7K health with 40% healing bonus and a guaranteed 1000 heal). Filling your deck with them will clog it up no doubt.

2. They are ineffective from second, since you either need to spam them beforehand or hope they don't have enough pips for you to be able to do it after you attack.

3. You're forced to use a life mastery amulet for the life dispels and are instantly punished the second your opponent isn't life.

Mid-level, these issues don't appear. Duels take a lot longer and both players can heal just fine.

This isn't the case in tourneys, where you can tell who you're facing against and set against them.

As someone who frequently gets pitted against life heal spammers, my only tip for you is to one shot them. Build your pips and blades up, shrike, frenzy, just do whatever it takes to not allow them to recover. Guardian Spirit's weakness is that they come back up with no pips, so they're not in a position to finish you off or heal back up to full. If you can hit them continuously for 3 rounds with increased attack, it should grant you victory.

Delver
Nov 27, 2013
256
this could be fixed to some extent if KI made a spell or an enchant that does damage to the Guardian Spirit protection while the player has it on. For example an enchant that would transfer a portion of the damage that an attack spell has towards the guardian spirit revive amount. So if you used that in your attacks they would not revive with much health, at the same time they would be prevented from healing it up because you can't put multiple Guardian Spirit spells on yourself. Or an attack spell that exclusively damaged or even removed Guardian Spirit could work as well.

Champion
Sep 30, 2018
494
Sebastian12205 on Mar 17, 2019 wrote:
Nice way to reply. Please don't hijack the post. OP was talking about Life and more specifically healing and guardian spirit.

I half-agree with OP. Life is overpowered, but only in high level range, where life mastery amulets and healing in general isn't the norm anymore for other schools.

You can't pack infection or life dispels in your deck for ranked pvp because :
1. They are only applicable to people who heal, something completely absent from schools other than life (Healing current is an exception, but isn't an issue since storm doesn't have 7K health with 40% healing bonus and a guaranteed 1000 heal). Filling your deck with them will clog it up no doubt.

2. They are ineffective from second, since you either need to spam them beforehand or hope they don't have enough pips for you to be able to do it after you attack.

3. You're forced to use a life mastery amulet for the life dispels and are instantly punished the second your opponent isn't life.

Mid-level, these issues don't appear. Duels take a lot longer and both players can heal just fine.

This isn't the case in tourneys, where you can tell who you're facing against and set against them.

As someone who frequently gets pitted against life heal spammers, my only tip for you is to one shot them. Build your pips and blades up, shrike, frenzy, just do whatever it takes to not allow them to recover. Guardian Spirit's weakness is that they come back up with no pips, so they're not in a position to finish you off or heal back up to full. If you can hit them continuously for 3 rounds with increased attack, it should grant you victory.
This is the thing i don't understand. When ever someone does something especially with pay to win gears that breaks the meta people would claim its broken. A perfect example of this was the spammable juju meta. Now prior to this i fully agree with removing GA from pvp and nerfing life heals on a few conditions.`1 you compensate critical for life without having to sacrifice 40% damage.2. you give life better access to dot and utility spells that can counter fire ice and balance from second.3 you give life a 2 pip damage bubble control spell and lastly an aoe spell that does 1000 base damage and then ill call that balance.
Now for someone who frequently gets pitted against life heal spammers, Ill give you empathy, not because am not one of them but because i hate it myself and that's coming from a life main who doesn't use guardian or spam heals, but rather go out the damage window. But if you can't give a better reason as to why life doesn't need damage after u nerf everything that is already bad for them, and the only reason people are abusing the jade life angel strategy then am afraid i cant stand for fairness. I don't think its right for any school to be forced into a corner because at max level people feel they can one shot any one with their mass op damage and pierce without little to no stacks on blades feints etc.