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Fire Beetle -- Nerf It

AuthorMessage
A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
I don't normally ask for the nerfing of a spell, but when I do, it is with mathematical reason. I don't want the treasure card to be nerfed because I dislike it, it's because the traps the spell leaves are 35%, while the spell costs 2 pips.

To prove that Fire Beetle is overpowered, let's look at a treasure card that puts up the same traps, but deals no damage.

Fuel Treasure Card - 2 pips, puts up 3 30% Fire traps, deals no damage. Fuel is a card that deals absolutely no damage while costing the same pips, but the traps are still 5% lower than the traps of Fire Beetle while Fire Beetle deals 100 damage and leaves 3 35% Fire traps.

Now let's take a look at Life Scarab, Life's version of this card.

Life Scarab Treasure Card - 2 pips, deals 130 damage, places one 25% Life Trap. Deals 30 more damage than Fire Beetle, however it only leaves one trap, and the trap is a full 10% lower than Fire Beetle's trap.

Fire From Above - 5 pips, 1 shadow pip (meaning the spell is even enhanced), deals 1100-1300 Fire damage, places 3 25% Fire traps on the enemy. Fire From Above is an enhanced spell, and yet only places 3 25% Fire traps on the opponent in comparison to Fire Beetle's 3 35% Fire traps.

Brimstone Revenant - 4 pips, deals 490 Fire damage, places 1 25% Fire trap on the target. In comparison to Fire Beetle, Brimstone Revenant puts one 25% Fire trap on the enemy regardless of its higher pip cost while Fire Beetle places 3 35% Fire traps on the enemy.

New solution for Fire Beetle:

1) Make Fire Beetle only leave one 35% Fire trap maintaining same pip cost and damage.

2) Make Fire beetle cost 3 pips while maintaining it's enhanced Fuel effect. It will then be a damaging version of the Fuel card.

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
415
I like both of your conclusions. That spell is too cheap (Pip cost) for it's damage and resulting effects.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2230
Let's compare 2 spells:

Fire Beetle - 2 pip, 100 dmg (50dmg/pip), 3 35% buffs
Brown Spider - 3 pip, 215 dmg (72dmg/pip), 1 30% buff to all future spells

Now, I know that it being pack bought gives it more control over who can find it, for now, but looking at the totals, it would seem that the Spider would need to be changed too, since it's even more powered than the Beetle. I checked the bazaar btw, while typing this out, and noticed ONLY 3 Fire Beetle tcs for sale. Are they usually replenished via the bazaar? Are there usually a lot for sale?

Sure BS costs it costs one more pip than FB, but does over twice as much damage AND buffs all future life spells. It could be argued that Fire Beetle needs an increase, and not a decrease based off of those two spells. I'm NOT saying that FB should have the same damage as BS, cause that would be CRAZY. Like you, I'm trying to compare it to similar spells. If FB were to lose the fuel, and say, get a single trap, then the damage would have to be boosted in order to warrant the change of after effects. As an example, would you find it fair if FB did the same damage as the spider spell above, with one trap, at the same cost as Beetle is now? If it's to cost 3 pips, then it would make Brown Spider even more lopsided. Compare the after effects, 3 pips for 3 temporary traps vs 3 pips for a permanent "blade". Yes, a 2 pip spell could be spammed every single round, whereas the spider spell cant, but they're VERY close in stats. Again, I say all of this from somebody who does NOT pvp, but I dont see how FB really could be abused. I'm jsut trying to further the conversation about the spells

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
415
Dayerider, I would think you would want to mention (Rat Illusionist - 2 Pips, 165 Myth dam (82dpp), +25 to all myth spells) to better illistrate your point vs. Fire beetle. Or better yet (White Rat Magician - 2 pips, 180 myth dam (90dpp), +25 to all myth spells) Both do more damage have greater dpp and cost the same.

However as with your example of Brown Spider which changes the global, while potent is not an effect that is directly on the target wizard. It can be changed a lot easier then removing three traps off of you and would only require one turn and one spell to do it. To remove those traps would require three turns and three spells. No one is going to spend three turns removing traps from Fire Beetle.

I agree that if Fire Beetle were to have two traps removed it could use some damage increase. It should be at least comprabale to Ice Bats (2 Pips, 175 ice dam (87dpp), +35 to next ice spell). Which would make it better the Life and Death Scarab.

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
415
Also, I can find Fire Beetles with much greater frequency then Brown Spider in the bazaar.

Survivor
Jul 02, 2015
7
As a Fire wizard, I may be a little bias, but I don't think this change is needed.

If we're going to make this change, we might as well nerf gaze of fate as well.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
TheUltimateFireWiz on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
As a Fire wizard, I may be a little bias, but I don't think this change is needed.

If we're going to make this change, we might as well nerf gaze of fate as well.
Gaze of Fate is overpowered indeed, I have never denied that it needs a nerf or at least a second look from KI, however Gaze of Fate has a bubble than can be removed with one spell and cannot stack effects, nor does it put anybody in a "lockout" situation like Fire Beetle where you're forced to shield every turn or you die, as there is absolutely no spell that removes all negative wards from self.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1623
dayerider on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
Let's compare 2 spells:

Fire Beetle - 2 pip, 100 dmg (50dmg/pip), 3 35% buffs
Brown Spider - 3 pip, 215 dmg (72dmg/pip), 1 30% buff to all future spells

Now, I know that it being pack bought gives it more control over who can find it, for now, but looking at the totals, it would seem that the Spider would need to be changed too, since it's even more powered than the Beetle. I checked the bazaar btw, while typing this out, and noticed ONLY 3 Fire Beetle tcs for sale. Are they usually replenished via the bazaar? Are there usually a lot for sale?

Sure BS costs it costs one more pip than FB, but does over twice as much damage AND buffs all future life spells. It could be argued that Fire Beetle needs an increase, and not a decrease based off of those two spells. I'm NOT saying that FB should have the same damage as BS, cause that would be CRAZY. Like you, I'm trying to compare it to similar spells. If FB were to lose the fuel, and say, get a single trap, then the damage would have to be boosted in order to warrant the change of after effects. As an example, would you find it fair if FB did the same damage as the spider spell above, with one trap, at the same cost as Beetle is now? If it's to cost 3 pips, then it would make Brown Spider even more lopsided. Compare the after effects, 3 pips for 3 temporary traps vs 3 pips for a permanent "blade". Yes, a 2 pip spell could be spammed every single round, whereas the spider spell cant, but they're VERY close in stats. Again, I say all of this from somebody who does NOT pvp, but I dont see how FB really could be abused. I'm jsut trying to further the conversation about the spells
Let's examine these spells:
Brown Spider - Has a changeable aftereffect that may be useless from first turn if the opponent uses a bubble. Brown Spider also reduces the player's pips and therefore does not lock out the opponent into shielding, since if they didn't shield, they would die. Also does not stack.

Fire Beetle - Has a non-removable aftereffect that may be stacked to guarantee a kill at any level 60+, while the Fire wizard will keep their pips and still be able to use FFA or Efreet the following turn that their opponent doesn't shield, which at levels 60-99, guarantees a kill with Efreet (or Fire From Above treasure cards), and at level 100 guarantees a kill with Fire From Above.

Availability of a treasure card doesn't matter. People used Insane Bolt TC which was overpowered yet low on sale, and KingsIsle decided to nerf it. Talos was the same, and it still got a nerf. Many players are able to farm for (or garden for) Fire Beetles, and it isn't a difficult treasure card to get ahold of.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2230
Mr Talon on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
Dayerider, I would think you would want to mention (Rat Illusionist - 2 Pips, 165 Myth dam (82dpp), +25 to all myth spells) to better illistrate your point vs. Fire beetle. Or better yet (White Rat Magician - 2 pips, 180 myth dam (90dpp), +25 to all myth spells) Both do more damage have greater dpp and cost the same.

However as with your example of Brown Spider which changes the global, while potent is not an effect that is directly on the target wizard. It can be changed a lot easier then removing three traps off of you and would only require one turn and one spell to do it. To remove those traps would require three turns and three spells. No one is going to spend three turns removing traps from Fire Beetle.

I agree that if Fire Beetle were to have two traps removed it could use some damage increase. It should be at least comprabale to Ice Bats (2 Pips, 175 ice dam (87dpp), +35 to next ice spell). Which would make it better the Life and Death Scarab.
good comparisons too. The reason I chose Brown Spider was if the FB spell went to 4 pips, it would need to be a better spell than the 3 pip life spell; ESPECIALLY if the fuel was swapped for a single firetrap

Mastermind
Nov 19, 2014
365
dayerider on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
Let's compare 2 spells:

Fire Beetle - 2 pip, 100 dmg (50dmg/pip), 3 35% buffs
Brown Spider - 3 pip, 215 dmg (72dmg/pip), 1 30% buff to all future spells

Now, I know that it being pack bought gives it more control over who can find it, for now, but looking at the totals, it would seem that the Spider would need to be changed too, since it's even more powered than the Beetle. I checked the bazaar btw, while typing this out, and noticed ONLY 3 Fire Beetle tcs for sale. Are they usually replenished via the bazaar? Are there usually a lot for sale?

Sure BS costs it costs one more pip than FB, but does over twice as much damage AND buffs all future life spells. It could be argued that Fire Beetle needs an increase, and not a decrease based off of those two spells. I'm NOT saying that FB should have the same damage as BS, cause that would be CRAZY. Like you, I'm trying to compare it to similar spells. If FB were to lose the fuel, and say, get a single trap, then the damage would have to be boosted in order to warrant the change of after effects. As an example, would you find it fair if FB did the same damage as the spider spell above, with one trap, at the same cost as Beetle is now? If it's to cost 3 pips, then it would make Brown Spider even more lopsided. Compare the after effects, 3 pips for 3 temporary traps vs 3 pips for a permanent "blade". Yes, a 2 pip spell could be spammed every single round, whereas the spider spell cant, but they're VERY close in stats. Again, I say all of this from somebody who does NOT pvp, but I dont see how FB really could be abused. I'm jsut trying to further the conversation about the spells
I agree with him even frost beetle have 3 trap of fuel (ice school lucky one get there at 1 pips) trap only 25% or 20% to15% 3 ice trap (don't forget balance) did make there 3 more to universe balance 3 balance trap like hex, curse, feint? I same very old having feint as balance spell in curse know for death school (wouldn't worry about because already tower shield for balance (made by balance school) from old wizard101 gears

Illuminator
Feb 24, 2009
1357
I only believe instead of leaving one trap, there should be three 20% or 25% traps, because 35% is a lot.