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Bad Juju

AuthorMessage
Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
I was wondering if you guys could make bad juju take weakness and reduce the 25% health taken based off the weakness being used because right now death going second to a fire is so much of a disadvantage because of efreet + other spells. Like for example say i'm death and second with blades but a fire decides to efreet but I bad Juju. It should be 90% taken off the 25% that i would have taken out of my heal to the spell.

Thank you for reading and other players let me know what you think.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
What am suggesting is this spell to be reverted and ban jade gears from PVP plain and simple. This spell was the only good utility fair nonaggressive type spell for offensive death players and needs to be accommodated for. The spell nerf was a poor judgment call and I hope KI realizes this keep pay to win gears out of pvp please and let farmable gears be a part of a healthy more playstyle.

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
angellifeheart on Feb 6, 2019 wrote:
What am suggesting is this spell to be reverted and ban jade gears from PVP plain and simple. This spell was the only good utility fair nonaggressive type spell for offensive death players and needs to be accommodated for. The spell nerf was a poor judgment call and I hope KI realizes this keep pay to win gears out of pvp please and let farmable gears be a part of a healthy more playstyle.
I'm in total agreement that jade gear needs to banned. If that doesn't get taken care of first then no way should anything be done to juju at all. But even if by some miracle jade gear does get banned one day I don't think juju should be reverted back to what it is in pve.

If jade gear got banned juju should not cost that much of your health in fact you could probably revert that part without too much of a problem. But it should still cost more pips if your gonna do that. Even without jade gear it's entirely possible to find other gear plus a good pet to get your death resist up enough to spam as long as it only costs a couple of pips to use. Add in a life mastery amulet for heals and boom right back to the original juju spammer problem.

No other school gets a spell for that few pips that's causes that much of a problem except balance with loremaster spam and life with guardian spirit (both cost 5 pips which is still more than juju). Efreet which is also complained about takes 8 pips. With that amount of pips you get at least 2 of the 90% weakness with juju compared to efreet's one for waiting so many turns. Having a spell that makes it impossible to hit for such few pips just isn't fair to any other school when there are ways to get your death resist up enough to be able to spam and heal with a mastery amulet.

And trust me there are ways. You don't really need jade gear for that strategy to work if juju is given same function in pvp that it has in pve again. After all if you are spamming juju then nothing anyone hits you with is really going to do damage anyway just heal it off in between and your good. I have no doubt that if jade gear got banned and juju reverted back completely that some people would get really creative with gear and pets stats to bring back juju spam strategy if pip cost to use the spell isn't also increased.

Plus now with the scion spells floating around death can play offensively without having to use juju. I've watched multiple matches where a death has even come from second and won thx to that spell and careful strategy. Death can be very op right now with the right strategies, good gear setup, and spell deck setup without ever needing to touch their juju.

Now I know scion isn't answer to everything but even without scion if you get a good gear set up going with nice stats (which is much more possible now, there's a lot of options between level 120-130 gear both in packs and from farming to fit a person's playstyle), and a decent (notice I don't say perfect but decent just enough to help your stats along) pet death can be a tough opponent even if they never juju once.

Defender
Nov 08, 2009
132
Jade gear might be a problem, but banning it is not the solution to Angels. I watched and was involved with matches this past weekend of a new way life does matches, resistance was a little over 60 on each, so Jade gear was not the issue. The issue was Guardian Spirit and critical. These life wizards have high critical, so each Guardian Spirit is a critical. When they are defeated they come back with full life each time. They basically shield, blade and trap (not with feint it can be removed with empowers) with life traps. I figured an average of 10 different traps that can be placed and 8 blades, hit with a Caterpillar. In the mean time the opponent is hitting them and killing then as they come back. So the real problem is the amount of Guardian Spirits. I killed my opponent about four times. They reshuffle and get them back or they die and get the cards back full deck. Maybe making a limit on the ones that can be put in deck and used only once is the solution like they did with the reshuffle spell.
Another solution would be to put a time limit on Ranking Matches and let Diego decide. An hour a match is fair.

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
Cat Wildbreeze on Feb 9, 2019 wrote:
Jade gear might be a problem, but banning it is not the solution to Angels. I watched and was involved with matches this past weekend of a new way life does matches, resistance was a little over 60 on each, so Jade gear was not the issue. The issue was Guardian Spirit and critical. These life wizards have high critical, so each Guardian Spirit is a critical. When they are defeated they come back with full life each time. They basically shield, blade and trap (not with feint it can be removed with empowers) with life traps. I figured an average of 10 different traps that can be placed and 8 blades, hit with a Caterpillar. In the mean time the opponent is hitting them and killing then as they come back. So the real problem is the amount of Guardian Spirits. I killed my opponent about four times. They reshuffle and get them back or they die and get the cards back full deck. Maybe making a limit on the ones that can be put in deck and used only once is the solution like they did with the reshuffle spell.
Another solution would be to put a time limit on Ranking Matches and let Diego decide. An hour a match is fair.
While I totally agree with you that guardian spirit is a problem, and I like your idea of limiting it like they did with reshuffle ... What does that have to do with this thread?

I admit banning jade gear was brought up, but it was while discussing bad juju and its nerf status. Guardian spirit was mentioned only as an example of another spell that is frequently complained about that uses very few pips. My post was pointing out that jade gear needs to be banned before undoing some of juju's nerf and even after that juju still needs at least a fix to how many pips it takes to use before reducing the nerf or getting rid of the the part of the spell that takes 25% of your health in pvp.

Nowhere did I say that I thought banning jade gear was a solution for guardian spirit spam.

So again not trying to be mean or sarcastic I just don't understand what your post has to do with the original topic which is bad juju and its nerf.

Defender
Nov 08, 2009
132
Luvdogs99 on Feb 10, 2019 wrote:
While I totally agree with you that guardian spirit is a problem, and I like your idea of limiting it like they did with reshuffle ... What does that have to do with this thread?

I admit banning jade gear was brought up, but it was while discussing bad juju and its nerf status. Guardian spirit was mentioned only as an example of another spell that is frequently complained about that uses very few pips. My post was pointing out that jade gear needs to be banned before undoing some of juju's nerf and even after that juju still needs at least a fix to how many pips it takes to use before reducing the nerf or getting rid of the the part of the spell that takes 25% of your health in pvp.

Nowhere did I say that I thought banning jade gear was a solution for guardian spirit spam.

So again not trying to be mean or sarcastic I just don't understand what your post has to do with the original topic which is bad juju and its nerf.
My point is that Bad Juju was not the problem. Banning Jade gear is not a solution, you can get as much resistance on other gear. My post was pointing out that you do not need the resistance. A good Juju Spammer player does not need Jade gear. Just as well as a Life with Guardian wings. Warlords and Commander

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
Cat Wildbreeze on Feb 11, 2019 wrote:
My point is that Bad Juju was not the problem. Banning Jade gear is not a solution, you can get as much resistance on other gear. My post was pointing out that you do not need the resistance. A good Juju Spammer player does not need Jade gear. Just as well as a Life with Guardian wings. Warlords and Commander
Bad juju was very much a major part of the problem. When you combine original juju with jade gear or even subpar gear your right they can spam away ( also if juju wasn't the problem then what did everyone complain about for years? pretty sure it was mostly the spell though people didn't like jade gear then either). Thus why I say you can't undo the bad juju nerf without doing something else first.

However you can't get as much resistance on regular gear as you can jade gear. For one school you can sure, but not extremely high resist as in 80 or above or worse immunity on almost all schools or all schools ( I have a friend who actually has this he's immune to 5/7 schools and 80% to the other 2). That is only able to be done with jade gear. Other gear like you said gets you about 60% which is manageable when shrike exists but 80% or immunity is a nightmare when facing an ice wiz or a guardian spirit spammer.

I also mentioned that even if they ban jade gear juju still needs an adjustment. At the very least it needs to have a higher pip cost to keep people from spamming it if they get rid of the health nerf. Banning jade gear while also adding the higher pip cost though would make spamming it pretty much impossible. (again juju currently used in pve was a major problem in pvp that's why it was nerfed it's probably not ever going to go back to what it was before due to years of complaints about spam)

With jade gear banned it would leave a potential spammer open to be hit by other schools since most of their resist would have to go into death school just so they can spam. At the same time if you make juju have a higher pip cost then that makes spamming it not only impossible to do every turn but also not a good choice when you know you don't have the resist to take multiple hits. Especially with the RNG of shadow pips. While 60% or so resist is annoying it can be worked around as long as juju isn't spammed every turn.

As for guardian spirit it's much the same there. Take away jade gear and you can work around the resist with strategy and shrike. Guardian spirit spammers may find themselves unable to spam or at the very least revive for a ton of health because with only about 60% resist attacks will actually do damage. They won't have time to do a full set up with health bubble if someone either plays smart or gets lucky with their shadow pips.

Last thing here, there is no such thing as a good juju or good guardian spirit spammer. Spamming either of those spells is not a strategy. A strategy is a well thought out plan that you can change to suit your needs as you duel. Repeatedly picking one spell while also spamming shields in between isn't even close to that. Making sure your immune or practically immune to being hit anyway even without the shields honestly should never have been allowed to be part of the game and has never happened on any other major online game in the pvp community. All in all if that's the only way you can win then you need to do more practice matches to get a feel for what a real strategy is.

Defender
Nov 08, 2009
132
Luvdogs99 on Feb 12, 2019 wrote:
Bad juju was very much a major part of the problem. When you combine original juju with jade gear or even subpar gear your right they can spam away ( also if juju wasn't the problem then what did everyone complain about for years? pretty sure it was mostly the spell though people didn't like jade gear then either). Thus why I say you can't undo the bad juju nerf without doing something else first.

However you can't get as much resistance on regular gear as you can jade gear. For one school you can sure, but not extremely high resist as in 80 or above or worse immunity on almost all schools or all schools ( I have a friend who actually has this he's immune to 5/7 schools and 80% to the other 2). That is only able to be done with jade gear. Other gear like you said gets you about 60% which is manageable when shrike exists but 80% or immunity is a nightmare when facing an ice wiz or a guardian spirit spammer.

I also mentioned that even if they ban jade gear juju still needs an adjustment. At the very least it needs to have a higher pip cost to keep people from spamming it if they get rid of the health nerf. Banning jade gear while also adding the higher pip cost though would make spamming it pretty much impossible. (again juju currently used in pve was a major problem in pvp that's why it was nerfed it's probably not ever going to go back to what it was before due to years of complaints about spam)

With jade gear banned it would leave a potential spammer open to be hit by other schools since most of their resist would have to go into death school just so they can spam. At the same time if you make juju have a higher pip cost then that makes spamming it not only impossible to do every turn but also not a good choice when you know you don't have the resist to take multiple hits. Especially with the RNG of shadow pips. While 60% or so resist is annoying it can be worked around as long as juju isn't spammed every turn.

As for guardian spirit it's much the same there. Take away jade gear and you can work around the resist with strategy and shrike. Guardian spirit spammers may find themselves unable to spam or at the very least revive for a ton of health because with only about 60% resist attacks will actually do damage. They won't have time to do a full set up with health bubble if someone either plays smart or gets lucky with their shadow pips.

Last thing here, there is no such thing as a good juju or good guardian spirit spammer. Spamming either of those spells is not a strategy. A strategy is a well thought out plan that you can change to suit your needs as you duel. Repeatedly picking one spell while also spamming shields in between isn't even close to that. Making sure your immune or practically immune to being hit anyway even without the shields honestly should never have been allowed to be part of the game and has never happened on any other major online game in the pvp community. All in all if that's the only way you can win then you need to do more practice matches to get a feel for what a real strategy is.
You make me DIZZY Why have this conservation when KI is not going to take it back and if they do, it will years

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Luvdogs99 on Feb 8, 2019 wrote:
I'm in total agreement that jade gear needs to banned. If that doesn't get taken care of first then no way should anything be done to juju at all. But even if by some miracle jade gear does get banned one day I don't think juju should be reverted back to what it is in pve.

If jade gear got banned juju should not cost that much of your health in fact you could probably revert that part without too much of a problem. But it should still cost more pips if your gonna do that. Even without jade gear it's entirely possible to find other gear plus a good pet to get your death resist up enough to spam as long as it only costs a couple of pips to use. Add in a life mastery amulet for heals and boom right back to the original juju spammer problem.

No other school gets a spell for that few pips that's causes that much of a problem except balance with loremaster spam and life with guardian spirit (both cost 5 pips which is still more than juju). Efreet which is also complained about takes 8 pips. With that amount of pips you get at least 2 of the 90% weakness with juju compared to efreet's one for waiting so many turns. Having a spell that makes it impossible to hit for such few pips just isn't fair to any other school when there are ways to get your death resist up enough to be able to spam and heal with a mastery amulet.

And trust me there are ways. You don't really need jade gear for that strategy to work if juju is given same function in pvp that it has in pve again. After all if you are spamming juju then nothing anyone hits you with is really going to do damage anyway just heal it off in between and your good. I have no doubt that if jade gear got banned and juju reverted back completely that some people would get really creative with gear and pets stats to bring back juju spam strategy if pip cost to use the spell isn't also increased.

Plus now with the scion spells floating around death can play offensively without having to use juju. I've watched multiple matches where a death has even come from second and won thx to that spell and careful strategy. Death can be very op right now with the right strategies, good gear setup, and spell deck setup without ever needing to touch their juju.

Now I know scion isn't answer to everything but even without scion if you get a good gear set up going with nice stats (which is much more possible now, there's a lot of options between level 120-130 gear both in packs and from farming to fit a person's playstyle), and a decent (notice I don't say perfect but decent just enough to help your stats along) pet death can be a tough opponent even if they never juju once.
Death still at a crazy disadvantage in pvp more now than ever. Death has no utility they can use for themselves, no official damage bubble and they need side effects that's useful in pvp. Other schools can arguably use deaths utility better than them.

Yes efreet is also 8 pips but does mass damage and cancels out anything it attacks. Also with spells like rampage, fire beetle, hephateus, brimstone, magma colossus, ffa and etc fire is the most coordinated and dangerous school with death doesnt get a quarter of their options. Which another fun fact is how fire beetle gives 3 traps 35%, while life and death gets 1 that is 30%, then ashen bones tc is stronger than a epic enchanted skeletal dragon.

I agree scion isnt always the answer but i can also say that its almost never the answer. The spell on bases depends on what your opponent does. For example say i use the new bad juju to get my health to 33%. That still doesnt take into account the countless ways my opponent can flip it. They can either stack shields, efreet me, mana burn me or etc. Now i basically more their job easier to kill me. Death, life and ice have the worst scions. Other scions take almost 0 prep to use. Myth just stun block 2 times, Fire fuel twice and fire beetle for any shields, Storm enfeeble, balance just tri blade.

They also need to make counter utilities for trap stacks like they did with blades making spells like enfeeble.

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
wakaflame201 on Feb 12, 2019 wrote:
Death still at a crazy disadvantage in pvp more now than ever. Death has no utility they can use for themselves, no official damage bubble and they need side effects that's useful in pvp. Other schools can arguably use deaths utility better than them.

Yes efreet is also 8 pips but does mass damage and cancels out anything it attacks. Also with spells like rampage, fire beetle, hephateus, brimstone, magma colossus, ffa and etc fire is the most coordinated and dangerous school with death doesnt get a quarter of their options. Which another fun fact is how fire beetle gives 3 traps 35%, while life and death gets 1 that is 30%, then ashen bones tc is stronger than a epic enchanted skeletal dragon.

I agree scion isnt always the answer but i can also say that its almost never the answer. The spell on bases depends on what your opponent does. For example say i use the new bad juju to get my health to 33%. That still doesnt take into account the countless ways my opponent can flip it. They can either stack shields, efreet me, mana burn me or etc. Now i basically more their job easier to kill me. Death, life and ice have the worst scions. Other scions take almost 0 prep to use. Myth just stun block 2 times, Fire fuel twice and fire beetle for any shields, Storm enfeeble, balance just tri blade.

They also need to make counter utilities for trap stacks like they did with blades making spells like enfeeble.
I can say for a fact death is not at a crazy disadvantage if you play it right. If you want proof go on youtube and look at multiple videos of people who pvp on their max level death wiz. I can think of one off the top of my head who wins just as often as he loses if not more on his death wiz. He also never uses juju and manages to win.

Fire is a good school right now for pvp but it's not invincible(I see them get beat pretty often by people with spamming problems and people who know how to have a defense strategy). I personally have a problem with rampage though too. Much like a few other spells it needs a nerf to how much damage it does. As for efreet in the time it takes to use one your opponent can do mass damage to you which means you are only buying time if you use it for the 90% weakness.

The trap thing for fire beetle makes sense to me when thinking about the whole game not just pvp. Fire is a DOT based school for many of its spells. Death isn't. The traps fire beetle gives helps the dot damage which for pve play is ideal. The fact that it helps pvp is an unintended consequence more than likely. Kinda like how juju in pve is awesome but the original function of the spell for pvp was horrible with no way to beat from second and led to the spam problem. I don't use ashen bones so I wouldn't know about that one. But if it's a tc then it's gonna be stronger in general. That's how tc are supposed to work. It's why a doom and gloom tc is better for darkmoor because it gives more than a regular doom and gloom.

As for scion why is you taking yourself down to 33% health the only answer? If death is as disadvantaged as you believe then getting prepared to scion should be simple. Keep shields off you opponent make sure you have shrike or blade and keep your pips up. At some point your opponent is going to get your health down to that 33% or below. When it happens you hit and boom match over in one turn. Even if you don't get to 33% health for the double damage the spell is powerful. If you have prepared well you can use it anyway to either end the match or do decent damage on your opponent while getting your health back.

It's all about strategy and being able to read the battle. With the exception of bubble (again I agree death needs a damage one too) The only utilities used in game often that are purely utilities are guardian spirit, shatter, and stun.
Death can get a shatter tc same as every other school. Stun tc can be bought off of bazaar or you can make them yourself. Every other spell that does a utility function like a weakness or accuracy has an attack. Including death spells like wings of sorrow.

Utilities are important but they shouldn't make or break every match you have. What happens if you don't pull a utility when you need it? What happens if a wiz counters your utility like using stun block so that your stun is useless? Someone with good strategy should be able to roll with the punches and adjust as they go. It's entirely possible to win a match without ever using utilities. Especially with the horrible RNG that is shadow pips.

Explorer
Dec 26, 2010
95
Cat Wildbreeze on Feb 12, 2019 wrote:
You make me DIZZY Why have this conservation when KI is not going to take it back and if they do, it will years
Literally just saw this since between my post above it and person underneath it it's been made into a very skinny strip on the page.

In answer to your question why not have the conversation? That's kinda the whole point of the message boards. People express their opinions thoughts or ideas and other people respond to them and of course other people's responses. (Which might I add is exactly what you did too lol you joined the conversation too so not sure why you phrased your comment like you think the topic is ridiculous. Unless of course you think it is in which case I don't know why you responded to posts on this thread at all).

Also on another note it's important for KI to know what people's opinions are on things like spells and nerfs, especially for pvp. They may take forever to actually listen and make a change but obviously with juju being the proof they do read these boards and take what we say seriously. If enough people complained that juju as it is now is really bad it's entirely possible they may change it back someday (I don't care if it's years down the road I, and a lot of other people, never want to see it happen). If you want something to change or even stay the same then the only way it's gonna happen is by speaking up.

So yes if someone posts I want juju back to how it is in pve I'm gonna post and say no way not without something else major changing too. You never know KI might just actually do it if enough people don't say we don't actually want that too happen.

Survivor
Feb 23, 2016
1
bad juju just needs to be back in the game. myth has Talos which is 1k health that can spam stun minotaur earthquake frog. ice has over 8k health, life guardian, storm INSANE like taking juju out lost half of the jade community when its facts that jades pay more to wizard101 then a damage type wizard cause of gear etc that gets brought out. I hope ki reads this and realize that if you're gonna punish one school punish all not discriminate

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
830
sparky297rc on Mar 9, 2019 wrote:
bad juju just needs to be back in the game. myth has Talos which is 1k health that can spam stun minotaur earthquake frog. ice has over 8k health, life guardian, storm INSANE like taking juju out lost half of the jade community when its facts that jades pay more to wizard101 then a damage type wizard cause of gear etc that gets brought out. I hope ki reads this and realize that if you're gonna punish one school punish all not discriminate
Sure they can have it back once jade gears and high resist gears are remove from pvp prevent death from abusing said spell. How ever to ensure this abuse insane of 25% max health maybe lowering it down to lets say 10%? yea we can all agree on one thing we donot want to see a jade juju strat back in the meta.