Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

For all account questions and concerns, contact Customer Support.

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Mana Burn is Broken

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Mar 01, 2014
62
Snow7450 on Nov 16, 2019 wrote:
They should've just nerf cheating mana burn not loremaster.
I think you forget they nerfed mana burn. not sure if you know this but mana burn would also cancel their spell and gaurantee the opponent to fizzle if they did not have enough pips when it first came out.

Survivor
Apr 18, 2010
12
It's 3 PIPS Pips meaning the Round things. It does not refer to the VALUE of each pip. It would display the symbol if it meant white pips.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2425
KirstenW101 on Nov 24, 2019 wrote:
It's 3 PIPS Pips meaning the Round things. It does not refer to the VALUE of each pip. It would display the symbol if it meant white pips.
Here is a link to the description of "Mana Burn". PLEASE read the NOTE that is in black above the card. It does say "Plain" pip. Meaning White.

http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Mana_Burn

Survivor
Dec 10, 2009
22
DragonLady1818 on Nov 26, 2019 wrote:
Here is a link to the description of "Mana Burn". PLEASE read the NOTE that is in black above the card. It does say "Plain" pip. Meaning White.

http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Mana_Burn
You misread the note. The notes states that the "plain pips are lost first." This would mean that power pips are then removed second. If there are no white/plain pips available to be removed, then up to three power pips are removed. This follows the exact description of Mana Burn perfectly. KristenW101 gave the correct description.

When referring to a single power pip, we say power pip. Power pip is still singular, but it holds the same value of two white pips. Wizards are conflating the two terms when they should and need to be treated differently and separately.

Survivor
Apr 07, 2012
4
Snow7450 on Nov 14, 2019 wrote:
That doesn't matter what it says. You said a pip is just a pip and not worth 2, so now you are just saying stuff that doesn't make sense and being a liar. It is not nearly useless from second at all. It makes it incredibly hard to combo when I'm in shrike and a cheating balance wizard with ward justs takes 6 of my pips and makes me lose health for only 5 pips. And then they use it again the next round and I have no pips because of cheating spells like that.
You must not know how some game mechanics work. Mana burn states "loses 3 pips" And IF you have 3 white pips it will take those away, however if you only have power pips it will take all power pips away as at the end of the day they're "Pips"

Survivor
May 30, 2014
11
Fred Frost on Nov 15, 2019 wrote:
Balance needs mana burn. Loremaster got nerfed so hard, balance will be pushed down to the bottom of pvp if mana burn is nerfed too.
I disagree Loremaster is still a good spell in rank pvp and I will still use it in rank pvp once I get it.

Just because it got nerfed doesn't mean it a bad nerf at least it didn't go to 6 pips like most of you wizards wanted it to go as.

Mana burn is to op and not fair in rank pvp I wish it got nerfed instead of loremaster honestly.

So I'm happy Loremaster stayed at 4 pips.

Heather lvl 121.

Always be family friendly to all players.

Survivor
May 30, 2014
11
Snow7450 on Nov 16, 2019 wrote:
They should've just nerf cheating mana burn not loremaster.
I agree with you on that spell honestly.

Survivor
Apr 17, 2017
4
mana burn wont be nerfed because its by far the most balanced spell in the game. it can't be spammed because its 5 pips. With out mana burn, balance wizards would officially be the worst school in pvp. another reason that ki would never nerf mana burn is because all the jade kids that lost their precious guardian spirit wands have moved onto burn wands, if BOTH spells/wands get removed from pvp there would be anarchy and the majority of the pvp player base would stop playing this game.

what i suggest doing is removing dispel shields so players can actually start using a brain and start balance dispelling. leave dispels how they used to be, make them cloak to work, and remove them from quick matches, balance dispel no more mana burn problem solved. bring back strategy to pvp please.

Explorer
Mar 01, 2014
62
Williamsmol on Dec 15, 2019 wrote:
mana burn wont be nerfed because its by far the most balanced spell in the game. it can't be spammed because its 5 pips. With out mana burn, balance wizards would officially be the worst school in pvp. another reason that ki would never nerf mana burn is because all the jade kids that lost their precious guardian spirit wands have moved onto burn wands, if BOTH spells/wands get removed from pvp there would be anarchy and the majority of the pvp player base would stop playing this game.

what i suggest doing is removing dispel shields so players can actually start using a brain and start balance dispelling. leave dispels how they used to be, make them cloak to work, and remove them from quick matches, balance dispel no more mana burn problem solved. bring back strategy to pvp please.
dont forget mana burn also cannot even be enchanted..

Defender
Oct 12, 2017
143
Yeah. Mana burn should be no pvp. Theres no shield protectors other than 50, which can easily be pierced, it takes out pips, all a balance needs is feint, mana burn, and empower tc to win a match

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
I'm surprised that Mana Burn "spam" is still being discussed in the PvP message boards in 2019/20. "Spamming" Mana Burn is an extremely unsuccessful game plan because you are doing minimal damage (80 damage per pip and can not be damage enchanted, most Balance spells do above the 80 dpp threshold at 5 pip cost such as Savage Paw dealing 100 dpp and is enchantable), and the more you Mana Burn, the more opportunities you are giving your opponent to blade stack and have a threatening offensive presence.

Mana Burn is best used as a combo disruption spell in tandem with other offensive and defensive synergies or is used in a scenario where you and your opponent are at a very high pip count. In these cases, it is not an overpowered or overcentralizing spell at all. The only time Mana Burn is used as a primary offensive spell is at level 130 PvP with Dragoon gear, where Visionary Balances will try to stall their opponent from pulling off a heavy combo for as long as possible so that the Balance can set up with Dark Nova. In lower level PvP, especially 80 and under where heals are used, Mana Burn is definitely not an issue.

People also forget that Mana Burn does not also completely disrupt the target from using a spell. If the Balance is going first and uses Mana Burn on somebody with 12 pips, if the player going second used their Scion spell for 11 pips, it would still go through. Mana Burn is also one of the worst spells to overuse from second since it is completely useless if your opponent is using their pips the same turn you Mana Burn. I don't see how the spell is overpowered at all with this mechanic, the only scenario I would agree that the spell needs to be nerfed would be if 5th age PvP implemented the turn based battle system that we see in turn based tournaments.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
PvP King on Jan 14, 2020 wrote:
I'm surprised that Mana Burn "spam" is still being discussed in the PvP message boards in 2019/20. "Spamming" Mana Burn is an extremely unsuccessful game plan because you are doing minimal damage (80 damage per pip and can not be damage enchanted, most Balance spells do above the 80 dpp threshold at 5 pip cost such as Savage Paw dealing 100 dpp and is enchantable), and the more you Mana Burn, the more opportunities you are giving your opponent to blade stack and have a threatening offensive presence.

Mana Burn is best used as a combo disruption spell in tandem with other offensive and defensive synergies or is used in a scenario where you and your opponent are at a very high pip count. In these cases, it is not an overpowered or overcentralizing spell at all. The only time Mana Burn is used as a primary offensive spell is at level 130 PvP with Dragoon gear, where Visionary Balances will try to stall their opponent from pulling off a heavy combo for as long as possible so that the Balance can set up with Dark Nova. In lower level PvP, especially 80 and under where heals are used, Mana Burn is definitely not an issue.

People also forget that Mana Burn does not also completely disrupt the target from using a spell. If the Balance is going first and uses Mana Burn on somebody with 12 pips, if the player going second used their Scion spell for 11 pips, it would still go through. Mana Burn is also one of the worst spells to overuse from second since it is completely useless if your opponent is using their pips the same turn you Mana Burn. I don't see how the spell is overpowered at all with this mechanic, the only scenario I would agree that the spell needs to be nerfed would be if 5th age PvP implemented the turn based battle system that we see in turn based tournaments.
Sad to say but i totally agree on the spectrum that mana burn is pretty much in a ridiculous state and a prime example of poor design within a turn base game. Regardless if moves were used prior to casting, it takes away pips that is used after casting said initial spells. For example someone who has 9 pips and used a 5 pip spell would essentially lose all their pips including the ones used for the casting am sure people have notice this. Secondly no school in the game should have the capacity or ability to out right stall or stop any form of counter play by the accountability of one spell hence i vote on the change for mana burn completely which goes for ice too. I don't even know why such an effect gets to be place on one of the most formidable top tier in pvp. Balance has to rely on what its known for and that's weakness stacking and defensive play styles. Like life, balance is in a similar situation in terms of damage out puts with balance being one step ahead. Mana burn, aura burn and current lore needs adjustment. Ill be posting my further pvp implementing ideas on nerfs on buffs in the effort of balancing pvp and not out right killing schools or making any schools have the ability to stop counter play or having one shots potential.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
angellifeheart on Feb 18, 2020 wrote:
Sad to say but i totally agree on the spectrum that mana burn is pretty much in a ridiculous state and a prime example of poor design within a turn base game. Regardless if moves were used prior to casting, it takes away pips that is used after casting said initial spells. For example someone who has 9 pips and used a 5 pip spell would essentially lose all their pips including the ones used for the casting am sure people have notice this. Secondly no school in the game should have the capacity or ability to out right stall or stop any form of counter play by the accountability of one spell hence i vote on the change for mana burn completely which goes for ice too. I don't even know why such an effect gets to be place on one of the most formidable top tier in pvp. Balance has to rely on what its known for and that's weakness stacking and defensive play styles. Like life, balance is in a similar situation in terms of damage out puts with balance being one step ahead. Mana burn, aura burn and current lore needs adjustment. Ill be posting my further pvp implementing ideas on nerfs on buffs in the effort of balancing pvp and not out right killing schools or making any schools have the ability to stop counter play or having one shots potential.
"mana burn is pretty much in a ridiculous state and a prime example of poor design within a turn based game. Regardless if moves were used prior to casting, it takes away pips that is used after casting said initial spells."
I don't understand how Mana Burn is in a ridiculous state or what makes it have poor design. It's a card that adds a unique and interesting mechanic into the game, which is taking away your opponent's pips. It's a combo disruption or a punishment to overly passive players, which is a mechanic that is no longer unique to Balance but is achievable with Shift Piscean, Lord of Winter, and now Shadow Trickster. I find that all 4 of the pip removal spells add something very interesting to the game and add extremely valuable counter-play to high pip combos that are otherwise unstoppable. If pip removal isn't meant to disrupt an opponent's combo, then what is it meant to do exactly?
"no school in the game should have the capacity or ability to out right stall or stop any form of counter play by the accountability of one spell"
And why not exactly? The point of Mana Burn, and every other spell that you cast in a match, is with the goal of stopping your opponent from doing what they want to be doing, while you execute what you want to do. Every shield, stun block, dispel, heal, stun or Black Mantle is used with the purpose of stalling your opponent's victory so you can achieve yours. If there was no counter to the way your opponent could play, then matches would be only about who gets to their win condition first.
"I don't even know why such an effect gets to be place on one of the most formidable top tier in pvp."
Balance is not top tier right now. At Exalted maybe, but at pretty much every other level including level 130, Balance is not a top tier school. The only top tier schools right now are probably Ice and Fire, and then Myth follows right behind.
"Balance has to rely on what its known for and that's weakness stacking and defensive play styles."
Balance is known for controlling the battlefield and being a team support school, which is one of the very first things you learn when you start playing the game. The only Weakness spell that Balance got until level 50 used to be Power Nova. Now it's Power Nova, King Artorius, and Loremaster (soon to be Scorpion). Weakness is not what defines the school. It's always, as far as PvP goes, been known as a control school even when level 50 was the maximum level, with spells like Helpful Mander, Elemental Shield (which worked really well with the mander), Spirit Shield, Weakness, and Hydra (shield removal) until the opponent's win condition was blocked out and the Balance could proceed with their own win condition. Mana Burn and Supernova add another element of control to Balance which is combo and aura disruption. Still falls in line with the school's design.
"Ill be posting my further pvp implementing ideas on nerfs and buffs in the effort of balancing pvp"
Okay looking forward to your post.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
PvP King on Feb 20, 2020 wrote:
"mana burn is pretty much in a ridiculous state and a prime example of poor design within a turn based game. Regardless if moves were used prior to casting, it takes away pips that is used after casting said initial spells."
I don't understand how Mana Burn is in a ridiculous state or what makes it have poor design. It's a card that adds a unique and interesting mechanic into the game, which is taking away your opponent's pips. It's a combo disruption or a punishment to overly passive players, which is a mechanic that is no longer unique to Balance but is achievable with Shift Piscean, Lord of Winter, and now Shadow Trickster. I find that all 4 of the pip removal spells add something very interesting to the game and add extremely valuable counter-play to high pip combos that are otherwise unstoppable. If pip removal isn't meant to disrupt an opponent's combo, then what is it meant to do exactly?
"no school in the game should have the capacity or ability to out right stall or stop any form of counter play by the accountability of one spell"
And why not exactly? The point of Mana Burn, and every other spell that you cast in a match, is with the goal of stopping your opponent from doing what they want to be doing, while you execute what you want to do. Every shield, stun block, dispel, heal, stun or Black Mantle is used with the purpose of stalling your opponent's victory so you can achieve yours. If there was no counter to the way your opponent could play, then matches would be only about who gets to their win condition first.
"I don't even know why such an effect gets to be place on one of the most formidable top tier in pvp."
Balance is not top tier right now. At Exalted maybe, but at pretty much every other level including level 130, Balance is not a top tier school. The only top tier schools right now are probably Ice and Fire, and then Myth follows right behind.
"Balance has to rely on what its known for and that's weakness stacking and defensive play styles."
Balance is known for controlling the battlefield and being a team support school, which is one of the very first things you learn when you start playing the game. The only Weakness spell that Balance got until level 50 used to be Power Nova. Now it's Power Nova, King Artorius, and Loremaster (soon to be Scorpion). Weakness is not what defines the school. It's always, as far as PvP goes, been known as a control school even when level 50 was the maximum level, with spells like Helpful Mander, Elemental Shield (which worked really well with the mander), Spirit Shield, Weakness, and Hydra (shield removal) until the opponent's win condition was blocked out and the Balance could proceed with their own win condition. Mana Burn and Supernova add another element of control to Balance which is combo and aura disruption. Still falls in line with the school's design.
"Ill be posting my further pvp implementing ideas on nerfs and buffs in the effort of balancing pvp"
Okay looking forward to your post.
First and for most, i was referring to ice as the most formidable top tier school within that sentence. That is due to lord of winter having the mana burn effect in its place. While mana burn may considered a unique mechanic just like any other spells, such as Efreets with offensive defensive mechanic or enfeeble blade shattering etc mana burn has zero counter play. Balance like ice or life has very strong sustain and potential ability to dish out far more damage than both of these schools combine. Pre nerf balance adjustment to lore balance was one of the top tier schools of pvp, in fact id argue they were second after ice because people at the time weren't investing in wards. Balance is a school that needs to rely on weakness.

A school than can have 7500+ HP, 60+ universal resist, 135% damage 35% pierce is, in no were shape or form balance, by having a spell that basically neutralize the opponent from setting up just like how balance has the same opportunity of setting up themselves passively. The same goes for super nova if anything that spell should be made into a star spells that everyone has the opportunity of shutting down their opponent from using auras such as brace. The concept behind just taking away your opponents pip for damage when your opponent is setting up defensively runes the opponents ability to make a comeback play. This is something that's been going on for far too long and ive tested it out myself and am mostly disgusted by what this so called mechanic can do and it needs to go. Spells like trickster, calender and shift piscen only takes one pip, now imagine if their able to take as much as 6 pips? would u called it fair? cause last time i check 3 power pips is 6 pips no?

There is no excuse for the existence of this spell on a high tier school that's still meta, and has now drawn many into the shadow dark nova one shot department using gears that boost shadow damage to over 100% damage, with spells like savage paw yes i know the one I invented it. It started with death before balance even got a hand on such combo. Mana burn is pretty broken and many would agree given the circumstances of the balance school. Just saying a complete shift in the meta tier of schools is needed making schools such as ice fire and balance harder to play, by nerfing the spells that exceedingly put the schools on the dominant roles.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
angellifeheart on Feb 24, 2020 wrote:
First and for most, i was referring to ice as the most formidable top tier school within that sentence. That is due to lord of winter having the mana burn effect in its place. While mana burn may considered a unique mechanic just like any other spells, such as Efreets with offensive defensive mechanic or enfeeble blade shattering etc mana burn has zero counter play. Balance like ice or life has very strong sustain and potential ability to dish out far more damage than both of these schools combine. Pre nerf balance adjustment to lore balance was one of the top tier schools of pvp, in fact id argue they were second after ice because people at the time weren't investing in wards. Balance is a school that needs to rely on weakness.

A school than can have 7500+ HP, 60+ universal resist, 135% damage 35% pierce is, in no were shape or form balance, by having a spell that basically neutralize the opponent from setting up just like how balance has the same opportunity of setting up themselves passively. The same goes for super nova if anything that spell should be made into a star spells that everyone has the opportunity of shutting down their opponent from using auras such as brace. The concept behind just taking away your opponents pip for damage when your opponent is setting up defensively runes the opponents ability to make a comeback play. This is something that's been going on for far too long and ive tested it out myself and am mostly disgusted by what this so called mechanic can do and it needs to go. Spells like trickster, calender and shift piscen only takes one pip, now imagine if their able to take as much as 6 pips? would u called it fair? cause last time i check 3 power pips is 6 pips no?

There is no excuse for the existence of this spell on a high tier school that's still meta, and has now drawn many into the shadow dark nova one shot department using gears that boost shadow damage to over 100% damage, with spells like savage paw yes i know the one I invented it. It started with death before balance even got a hand on such combo. Mana burn is pretty broken and many would agree given the circumstances of the balance school. Just saying a complete shift in the meta tier of schools is needed making schools such as ice fire and balance harder to play, by nerfing the spells that exceedingly put the schools on the dominant roles.
Simply put, Lord of Winter's pip removal mechanic was given to Ice simply because it was an interesting mechanic to put on the spell in a time where schools were being given lots of utilities. Every school got a utility that was unique to them, even though those schools hadn't had any spells that had the same utility/aftereffect before. Ice never had pip removal, Fire never had a double hit (AoE for that matter), Life never had a DoT, Death never had a DoT AoE (or strong single hit attack in general), Myth never had a steal pip mechanic, and Balance never had an attack + shield spell before. None of these mechanics carried on with any of the schools since except for Life getting Wings of Fate. Lord of Winter is also not even remotely close to overpowered with its pip removal since the spell itself costs 10 pips.

"Mana burn has zero counterplay"


What? Mana Burn is a counter play. There doesn't need to be direct counter play to a counter play spell or else it's not really counter play is it? There are indirect counter plays to Mana Burn, such as using Shadow Trickster and stealing the Balance's pips to apply pressure, which not a lot of players realize is actually a fantastic tempo gaining spell if you triple Weakness or have attack + weakness utility like Life and Luminous Weaver. Another counter play that pretty much every school has is blade stacking while the Balance loses offensive momentum while they burn. You forget that Mana Burn slows down the Balance's tempo just as much as it slows down the opponent's tempo. If you blade and use a DoT + 4 pip shad combo, the Balance is forced to take mass loads of damage and they haven't damaged you back sufficiently since they've only been burning you and you're using enchantable spells with base 1000 damage or more.
Pre nerf balance adjustment to lore balance was one of the top tier schools of pvp, in fact id argue they were second after ice because people at the time weren't investing in wards."
Almost everybody was invested in Balance-Ward since pretty much 2015-2019. You also answered yourself that the problem there was Loremaster and not Mana Burn. Balance was one of the top tier schools of PvP, you're right, but after Loremaster got nerfed Balance isn't top tier anymore, which you also admitted to. Clearly the problem was lore and not burn.
"Balance is a school that needs to rely on weakness."
Weakness is a thing shared among several schools and not just Balance, and has historically been more of a Death thing than it has been a Balance thing. Think Plague, Virulent Plague, Bad Juju, Winged Sorrow. You've also never explained why Balance needs to rely on Weakness and have no other utility?
"A school that can have 7500+ HP, 60+ universal resisr, 135% damage 35% pierce is, in no were shape or form balanced, by having a spell that basically neutralize the opponent from setting up just like how balance has the same opportunity of setting up themselves passively."
Balance is also currently the only school that can't set up Balance damage buffs. Mana Burn is only good for combo disruption like I already explained, it does not stop your opponent from setting up. Go spam Mana Burn to stop your opponent from "setting up" and see how far you get. Your opponent will blade stack, trap stack, and outright one shot a Balance if they try stalling with burn the entire game. The stats you mentioned are also sub-par as Balance loses one of its important utilities in being able to reliably critical Availing Hands. Balances only have critical in the 40%'s with the setup you mentioned.
"The same goes for super nova if anything that spell should be made into a star spells that everyone has the opportunity of shutting their opponent from using auras such as brace."
So are you arguing for Mana Burn being overpowered or for Balance to lose all of its utilities it has? If a star spell that destroys auras is enough to satisfy you, then I guess you'd be perfectly happy with growing Sunions and using off-school Supernova TC.
The rest of your second paragraph is just your personal disliking to losing pips. Shadow Trickster is more devastating than Mana Burn on both an offensive and defensive point of view since you lose 6 power pips throughout the duration of Shadow Trickster and your opponent is stealing your pips while you're losing them. You're losing offensive and defensive tempo while your opponent is gaining. Mana Burn slows both the tempo down for both the user and the target since both players lose an equal amount of pips in that turn, and if the Mana Burn is used at a turn where the opponent attacked, the Balance is taking a damage trade that they don't like. You can't Mana Burn to counter a Fire From Above for example, and you're doing 800 damage to your opponent and taking 3000. I don't see how that "ruins the opponent's ability to make a comeback play."
Dark Nova Paragraph
You invented Dark Nova strategies? Wow, I didn't realize that a spell that came out in 2015 didn't have any strategies revolving around it until Angel LifeHeart joined in September 2018. I wonder what the arena would be like without you fathering such a never before seen strategy. The Dark Nova strategy is far easier to deal with than most people make it out to be, and Mana Burn does not make the strategy overpowered.
"Just saying a complete shift in the meta tier of schools is needed making schools such as ice fire and balance harder to play, by nerfing the spells that exceedingly put the schools on the dominant roles."
I thought we've already established that Balance isn't a top tier school, meaning that it isn't on a "dominant role"?
I'm going to leave a quote from Rainco because he worded it perfectly and nothing more really needs to be added, as this saying can go for nearly every mass-complained about spell in the game: "Knowing that the other player has mana burn should suggest that you should change your playing style to fit the current battle. That is the main purpose of pvp, not to change spells to fit your playing style."
Again, you haven't brought up a situation to me where Mana Burn is overpowered other than the spell disgusts you. Like I said, I agree completely that the spell needs reworking when 5th age PvP rolls around and turn based becomes the main mode of ranked, but until then the spell is fine. That also goes for a lot of spells and not just burn.

Mastermind
Mar 19, 2011
344
angellifeheart on Feb 24, 2020 wrote:
First and for most, i was referring to ice as the most formidable top tier school within that sentence. That is due to lord of winter having the mana burn effect in its place. While mana burn may considered a unique mechanic just like any other spells, such as Efreets with offensive defensive mechanic or enfeeble blade shattering etc mana burn has zero counter play. Balance like ice or life has very strong sustain and potential ability to dish out far more damage than both of these schools combine. Pre nerf balance adjustment to lore balance was one of the top tier schools of pvp, in fact id argue they were second after ice because people at the time weren't investing in wards. Balance is a school that needs to rely on weakness.

A school than can have 7500+ HP, 60+ universal resist, 135% damage 35% pierce is, in no were shape or form balance, by having a spell that basically neutralize the opponent from setting up just like how balance has the same opportunity of setting up themselves passively. The same goes for super nova if anything that spell should be made into a star spells that everyone has the opportunity of shutting down their opponent from using auras such as brace. The concept behind just taking away your opponents pip for damage when your opponent is setting up defensively runes the opponents ability to make a comeback play. This is something that's been going on for far too long and ive tested it out myself and am mostly disgusted by what this so called mechanic can do and it needs to go. Spells like trickster, calender and shift piscen only takes one pip, now imagine if their able to take as much as 6 pips? would u called it fair? cause last time i check 3 power pips is 6 pips no?

There is no excuse for the existence of this spell on a high tier school that's still meta, and has now drawn many into the shadow dark nova one shot department using gears that boost shadow damage to over 100% damage, with spells like savage paw yes i know the one I invented it. It started with death before balance even got a hand on such combo. Mana burn is pretty broken and many would agree given the circumstances of the balance school. Just saying a complete shift in the meta tier of schools is needed making schools such as ice fire and balance harder to play, by nerfing the spells that exceedingly put the schools on the dominant roles.
Could you please tell me what gear and pet set I need to be a Balance wizard with 7500+ Health, 60+ Universal resist, 135% Damage and 35% pierce?

Mastermind
Mar 19, 2011
344
PvP King on Jan 14, 2020 wrote:
I'm surprised that Mana Burn "spam" is still being discussed in the PvP message boards in 2019/20. "Spamming" Mana Burn is an extremely unsuccessful game plan because you are doing minimal damage (80 damage per pip and can not be damage enchanted, most Balance spells do above the 80 dpp threshold at 5 pip cost such as Savage Paw dealing 100 dpp and is enchantable), and the more you Mana Burn, the more opportunities you are giving your opponent to blade stack and have a threatening offensive presence.

Mana Burn is best used as a combo disruption spell in tandem with other offensive and defensive synergies or is used in a scenario where you and your opponent are at a very high pip count. In these cases, it is not an overpowered or overcentralizing spell at all. The only time Mana Burn is used as a primary offensive spell is at level 130 PvP with Dragoon gear, where Visionary Balances will try to stall their opponent from pulling off a heavy combo for as long as possible so that the Balance can set up with Dark Nova. In lower level PvP, especially 80 and under where heals are used, Mana Burn is definitely not an issue.

People also forget that Mana Burn does not also completely disrupt the target from using a spell. If the Balance is going first and uses Mana Burn on somebody with 12 pips, if the player going second used their Scion spell for 11 pips, it would still go through. Mana Burn is also one of the worst spells to overuse from second since it is completely useless if your opponent is using their pips the same turn you Mana Burn. I don't see how the spell is overpowered at all with this mechanic, the only scenario I would agree that the spell needs to be nerfed would be if 5th age PvP implemented the turn based battle system that we see in turn based tournaments.
I only PvP as Balance, and then only when I am at max level, and have the latest gear. Not that I use the latest gear for PvP. I like the older gear more. Balance is not the PvP school that it used to be, but the new gear makes us absolute heroes as a supporting school in questing.

Back to the topic at hand.

Mana Burn is a very situational spell. It is customary for a Balance wizard to cast Mana Burn as a first move if the Balance wizard goes first. It is our way of saying "hello." Mana Burn is most useful as a way to delay one's opponent from from using large spells and hopefully prevent a "one shot." I find it most useful against Death Wizards, but it really hurts Storm wizards who hoard their pips.

Mana Burn can be countered by any school. For one thing, a Balance wizard can't always have Mana Burn in their hand, and they don't want to. I carry seven Mana Burns, but eventually, even a Storm wizard will get eleven pips and be able to cast a Scion on me. I had better get lucky and draw the right shield and hopefully have a Brace up. Of course, Storm wizards don't need large spells to do lots of damage.

Death Wizards can just pile on blades. Life wizards can spam Luminous Weaver the way I used to do Loremaster, until they get a Caterpillar. Myth wizards can stun me and then cast the Snake Charmer. Fire wizards can stack traps and cast something as simple as Power Link and force me to dig for heals.

Don't even get me started on how annoying Balance and Ice wizards are.

If the time is right and the cards are right, or if I am desperate, I will cast Mana Burn. Okay, sometimes I will cast it just to be annoying, but trust me, it is not a spell I want to use more than once or twice in a 1v1 match.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
PvP King on Feb 26, 2020 wrote:
Simply put, Lord of Winter's pip removal mechanic was given to Ice simply because it was an interesting mechanic to put on the spell in a time where schools were being given lots of utilities. Every school got a utility that was unique to them, even though those schools hadn't had any spells that had the same utility/aftereffect before. Ice never had pip removal, Fire never had a double hit (AoE for that matter), Life never had a DoT, Death never had a DoT AoE (or strong single hit attack in general), Myth never had a steal pip mechanic, and Balance never had an attack + shield spell before. None of these mechanics carried on with any of the schools since except for Life getting Wings of Fate. Lord of Winter is also not even remotely close to overpowered with its pip removal since the spell itself costs 10 pips.

"Mana burn has zero counterplay"


What? Mana Burn is a counter play. There doesn't need to be direct counter play to a counter play spell or else it's not really counter play is it? There are indirect counter plays to Mana Burn, such as using Shadow Trickster and stealing the Balance's pips to apply pressure, which not a lot of players realize is actually a fantastic tempo gaining spell if you triple Weakness or have attack + weakness utility like Life and Luminous Weaver. Another counter play that pretty much every school has is blade stacking while the Balance loses offensive momentum while they burn. You forget that Mana Burn slows down the Balance's tempo just as much as it slows down the opponent's tempo. If you blade and use a DoT + 4 pip shad combo, the Balance is forced to take mass loads of damage and they haven't damaged you back sufficiently since they've only been burning you and you're using enchantable spells with base 1000 damage or more.
Pre nerf balance adjustment to lore balance was one of the top tier schools of pvp, in fact id argue they were second after ice because people at the time weren't investing in wards."
Almost everybody was invested in Balance-Ward since pretty much 2015-2019. You also answered yourself that the problem there was Loremaster and not Mana Burn. Balance was one of the top tier schools of PvP, you're right, but after Loremaster got nerfed Balance isn't top tier anymore, which you also admitted to. Clearly the problem was lore and not burn.
"Balance is a school that needs to rely on weakness."
Weakness is a thing shared among several schools and not just Balance, and has historically been more of a Death thing than it has been a Balance thing. Think Plague, Virulent Plague, Bad Juju, Winged Sorrow. You've also never explained why Balance needs to rely on Weakness and have no other utility?
"A school that can have 7500+ HP, 60+ universal resisr, 135% damage 35% pierce is, in no were shape or form balanced, by having a spell that basically neutralize the opponent from setting up just like how balance has the same opportunity of setting up themselves passively."
Balance is also currently the only school that can't set up Balance damage buffs. Mana Burn is only good for combo disruption like I already explained, it does not stop your opponent from setting up. Go spam Mana Burn to stop your opponent from "setting up" and see how far you get. Your opponent will blade stack, trap stack, and outright one shot a Balance if they try stalling with burn the entire game. The stats you mentioned are also sub-par as Balance loses one of its important utilities in being able to reliably critical Availing Hands. Balances only have critical in the 40%'s with the setup you mentioned.
"The same goes for super nova if anything that spell should be made into a star spells that everyone has the opportunity of shutting their opponent from using auras such as brace."
So are you arguing for Mana Burn being overpowered or for Balance to lose all of its utilities it has? If a star spell that destroys auras is enough to satisfy you, then I guess you'd be perfectly happy with growing Sunions and using off-school Supernova TC.
The rest of your second paragraph is just your personal disliking to losing pips. Shadow Trickster is more devastating than Mana Burn on both an offensive and defensive point of view since you lose 6 power pips throughout the duration of Shadow Trickster and your opponent is stealing your pips while you're losing them. You're losing offensive and defensive tempo while your opponent is gaining. Mana Burn slows both the tempo down for both the user and the target since both players lose an equal amount of pips in that turn, and if the Mana Burn is used at a turn where the opponent attacked, the Balance is taking a damage trade that they don't like. You can't Mana Burn to counter a Fire From Above for example, and you're doing 800 damage to your opponent and taking 3000. I don't see how that "ruins the opponent's ability to make a comeback play."
Dark Nova Paragraph
You invented Dark Nova strategies? Wow, I didn't realize that a spell that came out in 2015 didn't have any strategies revolving around it until Angel LifeHeart joined in September 2018. I wonder what the arena would be like without you fathering such a never before seen strategy. The Dark Nova strategy is far easier to deal with than most people make it out to be, and Mana Burn does not make the strategy overpowered.
"Just saying a complete shift in the meta tier of schools is needed making schools such as ice fire and balance harder to play, by nerfing the spells that exceedingly put the schools on the dominant roles."
I thought we've already established that Balance isn't a top tier school, meaning that it isn't on a "dominant role"?
I'm going to leave a quote from Rainco because he worded it perfectly and nothing more really needs to be added, as this saying can go for nearly every mass-complained about spell in the game: "Knowing that the other player has mana burn should suggest that you should change your playing style to fit the current battle. That is the main purpose of pvp, not to change spells to fit your playing style."
Again, you haven't brought up a situation to me where Mana Burn is overpowered other than the spell disgusts you. Like I said, I agree completely that the spell needs reworking when 5th age PvP rolls around and turn based becomes the main mode of ranked, but until then the spell is fine. That also goes for a lot of spells and not just burn.
I think your starting to word things that i said a different way, i said i used ward because the 3 top schools in pvp basically got over tune. There is always a direct counter play to any spell. Mana burn is too much of a safe spell and the way it works negating your opponent from setting meanwhile balance is able to play hyper defensive and stack pips for days if they had too and come back with their own mass damage combo's. Balance is still a dominant school the nerf to lore change the way how balance pvp now, but their still top underdogs in pvp. With incredible overloaded utility kit balance is able to shutdown their opponents to much without any actual penalty compared to other school. You mention in your previous post that balance have some type of control over the match, but how much control does a balance actually needs to shift the game in their direction. Don't you think the same can be said for other schools? Mana burn, Efreet, Abominable weaver, Aura burn all needs changes. Am done debating on the fact that mana burn is totally a poor design of a spell that should never have existed on any schools. I can allow the idea of 1 pip or 2 even but 6? nah sorry mate balance can do fairly well without mana burn hence why this thread was posted and many would agree on the aspect. Id rather see mana burn do max health damage or just plain damage per pip without pip removal.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
Liam Swiftwalker on Oct 26, 2019 wrote:
Mana Burn costs five pips to cast and only takes three pips from the wizard it is cast on.
It takes 3-6 pips depending on what color pips you have. If its white its 3 if its yellow its 6

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
Oreo920a on Nov 4, 2019 wrote:
Spam mana burn until other one is defeated?
"Spam" a 5 pip spell highly unlikely
Potentially at max pvp yes you can spam mana burn 2-3 times if you play hyper defense in between mana burn which can potentially stall the opponent. People kind of forget that we have 4 pip shadow spells out here. A school with 135% damage 60+ resist and 35 pierce not so far from fire.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
PvP King on Feb 26, 2020 wrote:
Simply put, Lord of Winter's pip removal mechanic was given to Ice simply because it was an interesting mechanic to put on the spell in a time where schools were being given lots of utilities. Every school got a utility that was unique to them, even though those schools hadn't had any spells that had the same utility/aftereffect before. Ice never had pip removal, Fire never had a double hit (AoE for that matter), Life never had a DoT, Death never had a DoT AoE (or strong single hit attack in general), Myth never had a steal pip mechanic, and Balance never had an attack + shield spell before. None of these mechanics carried on with any of the schools since except for Life getting Wings of Fate. Lord of Winter is also not even remotely close to overpowered with its pip removal since the spell itself costs 10 pips.

"Mana burn has zero counterplay"


What? Mana Burn is a counter play. There doesn't need to be direct counter play to a counter play spell or else it's not really counter play is it? There are indirect counter plays to Mana Burn, such as using Shadow Trickster and stealing the Balance's pips to apply pressure, which not a lot of players realize is actually a fantastic tempo gaining spell if you triple Weakness or have attack + weakness utility like Life and Luminous Weaver. Another counter play that pretty much every school has is blade stacking while the Balance loses offensive momentum while they burn. You forget that Mana Burn slows down the Balance's tempo just as much as it slows down the opponent's tempo. If you blade and use a DoT + 4 pip shad combo, the Balance is forced to take mass loads of damage and they haven't damaged you back sufficiently since they've only been burning you and you're using enchantable spells with base 1000 damage or more.
Pre nerf balance adjustment to lore balance was one of the top tier schools of pvp, in fact id argue they were second after ice because people at the time weren't investing in wards."
Almost everybody was invested in Balance-Ward since pretty much 2015-2019. You also answered yourself that the problem there was Loremaster and not Mana Burn. Balance was one of the top tier schools of PvP, you're right, but after Loremaster got nerfed Balance isn't top tier anymore, which you also admitted to. Clearly the problem was lore and not burn.
"Balance is a school that needs to rely on weakness."
Weakness is a thing shared among several schools and not just Balance, and has historically been more of a Death thing than it has been a Balance thing. Think Plague, Virulent Plague, Bad Juju, Winged Sorrow. You've also never explained why Balance needs to rely on Weakness and have no other utility?
"A school that can have 7500+ HP, 60+ universal resisr, 135% damage 35% pierce is, in no were shape or form balanced, by having a spell that basically neutralize the opponent from setting up just like how balance has the same opportunity of setting up themselves passively."
Balance is also currently the only school that can't set up Balance damage buffs. Mana Burn is only good for combo disruption like I already explained, it does not stop your opponent from setting up. Go spam Mana Burn to stop your opponent from "setting up" and see how far you get. Your opponent will blade stack, trap stack, and outright one shot a Balance if they try stalling with burn the entire game. The stats you mentioned are also sub-par as Balance loses one of its important utilities in being able to reliably critical Availing Hands. Balances only have critical in the 40%'s with the setup you mentioned.
"The same goes for super nova if anything that spell should be made into a star spells that everyone has the opportunity of shutting their opponent from using auras such as brace."
So are you arguing for Mana Burn being overpowered or for Balance to lose all of its utilities it has? If a star spell that destroys auras is enough to satisfy you, then I guess you'd be perfectly happy with growing Sunions and using off-school Supernova TC.
The rest of your second paragraph is just your personal disliking to losing pips. Shadow Trickster is more devastating than Mana Burn on both an offensive and defensive point of view since you lose 6 power pips throughout the duration of Shadow Trickster and your opponent is stealing your pips while you're losing them. You're losing offensive and defensive tempo while your opponent is gaining. Mana Burn slows both the tempo down for both the user and the target since both players lose an equal amount of pips in that turn, and if the Mana Burn is used at a turn where the opponent attacked, the Balance is taking a damage trade that they don't like. You can't Mana Burn to counter a Fire From Above for example, and you're doing 800 damage to your opponent and taking 3000. I don't see how that "ruins the opponent's ability to make a comeback play."
Dark Nova Paragraph
You invented Dark Nova strategies? Wow, I didn't realize that a spell that came out in 2015 didn't have any strategies revolving around it until Angel LifeHeart joined in September 2018. I wonder what the arena would be like without you fathering such a never before seen strategy. The Dark Nova strategy is far easier to deal with than most people make it out to be, and Mana Burn does not make the strategy overpowered.
"Just saying a complete shift in the meta tier of schools is needed making schools such as ice fire and balance harder to play, by nerfing the spells that exceedingly put the schools on the dominant roles."
I thought we've already established that Balance isn't a top tier school, meaning that it isn't on a "dominant role"?
I'm going to leave a quote from Rainco because he worded it perfectly and nothing more really needs to be added, as this saying can go for nearly every mass-complained about spell in the game: "Knowing that the other player has mana burn should suggest that you should change your playing style to fit the current battle. That is the main purpose of pvp, not to change spells to fit your playing style."
Again, you haven't brought up a situation to me where Mana Burn is overpowered other than the spell disgusts you. Like I said, I agree completely that the spell needs reworking when 5th age PvP rolls around and turn based becomes the main mode of ranked, but until then the spell is fine. That also goes for a lot of spells and not just burn.
Hold up a second balance can't set up? what? ever heard the word brace? into shields? stuns? pip save? and then balance for having like 6 blades? lol jokes that was history balance can def set up for mass damage esp into a gaze of fate adding that 25% damage to the already 135% damage. Am sorry but your thought are coming off a bit bias considering your hydra icon, ur really backing up a school that's been having their way for quite along time. Its time for change period end of discussion. Im done debating on this sentimental argument.

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
angellifeheart on Feb 27, 2020 wrote:
I think your starting to word things that i said a different way, i said i used ward because the 3 top schools in pvp basically got over tune. There is always a direct counter play to any spell. Mana burn is too much of a safe spell and the way it works negating your opponent from setting meanwhile balance is able to play hyper defensive and stack pips for days if they had too and come back with their own mass damage combo's. Balance is still a dominant school the nerf to lore change the way how balance pvp now, but their still top underdogs in pvp. With incredible overloaded utility kit balance is able to shutdown their opponents to much without any actual penalty compared to other school. You mention in your previous post that balance have some type of control over the match, but how much control does a balance actually needs to shift the game in their direction. Don't you think the same can be said for other schools? Mana burn, Efreet, Abominable weaver, Aura burn all needs changes. Am done debating on the fact that mana burn is totally a poor design of a spell that should never have existed on any schools. I can allow the idea of 1 pip or 2 even but 6? nah sorry mate balance can do fairly well without mana burn hence why this thread was posted and many would agree on the aspect. Id rather see mana burn do max health damage or just plain damage per pip without pip removal.
I'm not rewording anything you said differently. Nowhere did you state that you used wards. You stated that people didn't use wards: "people at the time weren't investing in wards." Your post. Your words. I don't see how "I used ward because the 3 top schools in pvp basically got over tune" is translated from that sentence.

"There is always a direct counter play to any spell."
Shrike? Dark Nova? Minotaur? Orthrus? Fire Beetle? School specific traps? There is no direct counter play to any of those spells, only indirect.
"Mana burn is too much of a safe spell and the way it works negating your opponent from setting meanwhile balance is able to play hyper defensive and stack pips for days if they had too and come back with their own mass damage combo's"
Several people in this thread explained how Mana Burn is a risky spell in a lot of scenarios, I don't think I need to re-explain. Balance is not able to play hyper defensively at levels 60+ because Death mastery is extremely common from 60-90, damage and pierce are extremely high in those level ranges, and level 100+ has more than enough answers to counteract a "hyper defensive" player. Balance can't play hyper defensive at 60-130 because you're forced to take out your opponent before they get too threatening. You can't survive endlessly.
I don't understand your logic here. So the Balance is stacking pips and coming back with their own mass damage combos while losing pips, blades and traps on Mana Burn????? The only place Balance is able to do what you are describing is level 50 where Balances will stack different kinds of Spirit Traps and go for Shatter into Chimera, which is more of a high level TC in low level usage issue more than a Mana Burn thing, considering Balances can only have a maximum of 2 Mana Burns with the Order of High Glory Banner without sacrificing Life Mastery for the level 40 amulet.
"Balance is still a dominant school... but their still top underdogs in pvp."
Being dominant and being an underdog are completely opposite things. That sentence makes absolutely no sense.
"With incredible overloaded utility kit balance is able to shutdown their opponents to much without any actual penalty compared to other school."
If there is a high level Balance out there that is able to shut down their opponent, then let me meet that guy because with the way mid-high level PvP is set up that is not possible. Balance doesn't have an overloaded utility kit, and even if they did, Balance is a utility based school.
"How much control does a balance actually needs to shift the game in their direction."
Apparently more than they have now since even with Mana Burn, Supernova, Loremaster and Gaze of Fate, the match still goes either way.
"Mana burn, Efreet, Abominable weaver, Aura burn all need changes."
Efreet and Abominable Weaver both need changes due to the overpowered nature of high damage + high defensive utility spells. Mana Burn will also 100% need a change when Turn Based PvP comes to ranked. Supernova depends on what happens with Shadow Shrike when resist gets reworked. If Shrike is still a better version of Infallible and counters Fortify/Brace, then Supernova is fine the way it is. If schools lose Shrike as a utility, then Supernova will need to be reworked since Balances will be able to have unfair pierce + resist advantages over opponents.
"Nah sorry mate balance can do fairly well without mana burn hence why this thread was posted and many would agree on the aspect."
Play Balance without Mana Burn and tell me with a straight face that you found it to be a success. It won't be very long before you come back to the boards complaining about Balance needing better utility.
Responses to your other post:
"Hold up a second balance can't set up? What? Ever heard of the words brace? Into shields? Stuns? Pip save? And then balance for having like 6 blades?"
I said Balance can't set up offensively. Every spell you mentioned has a hard counter to it: Brace by Shrike, shields by DoT or Shrike, stuns by Stun Block, and I'm not sure what pip save is supposed to mean. Saving pips isn't setting up. Balance also can't set up 6+ blades without getting absolutely hard-countered by the opponent. Blade stacking Balance is an extremely non-viable strategy unless you're questing.
"Balance can def set up for mass damage esp into a gaze of fate adding that 25% damage to the already 135% damage."
I don't know whether you're complaining about Mana Burn or Gaze of Fate. A Balance is not keeping the opponent's pips low with Mana Burn and Gazing them simultaneously. If a Balance Mana Burns constantly early game, the opponent will be protected from Gaze of Fate by the time the Balance gets to Gaze. If the Balance opts to Gaze of Fate early without controlling the opponent's pips with Mana Burn, then the opponent will have a severe pip and threat advantage over the Balance. Fire, Ice, Myth, and Storm all have direct 2 pip counters to Gaze of Fate's bubble, while Death and Life both have 3 pip damage + bubble spells in Brown Spider and Red Ghost, and Death also has Doom and Gloom which is phenomenal against high-critical Balances.
"Am sorry but your thought are coming off a bit bias considering your hydra icon"
Yes, me, the guy that completely agreed with nerfing Loremaster when it was ridiculous, asked for the unfair advantage of Reshuffle being a Balance spell to be changed so the spell would be equal pip cost to all schools, and agreed with a Mana Burn rework in Turn Based PvP is somebody who's biased towards the Balance school.
Lastly, this phrase you made:


"Balance can do fairly well without mana burn hence why this thread was posted and many would agree on the aspect"

No disrespect to Snow7450, but poster of this thread making a reply to a post saying "Good it about time balance learn how to suffer" tells me all I need to know about why this thread was made. To add, not very many people agreed with Snow that Mana Burn is broken, with the majority of this thread saying it is a balanced or one of the most balanced spells in the game.

Again, you haven't explained to me in any scenario why or how Mana Burn is overpowered. Just non-explained claims about Mana Burn being a disgusting spell, pip removal spells being bad for the game, and whatnot. Like I said, Mana Burn should be nerfed to remove 2 pips (yes 2 power pips included) instead of 3 when Turn Based PvP comes around since it'd be an overpowered disruption spell and I hope KI is looking into this thread and already has a pre-release Mana Burn nerf in the making for when 5th Age comes around. That's the only nerf I will agree on, and since 5th Age is close, asking for a nerf is essentially pointless until Turn Based becomes the main Ranked mode.

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
PvP King on Feb 27, 2020 wrote:
I'm not rewording anything you said differently. Nowhere did you state that you used wards. You stated that people didn't use wards: "people at the time weren't investing in wards." Your post. Your words. I don't see how "I used ward because the 3 top schools in pvp basically got over tune" is translated from that sentence.

"There is always a direct counter play to any spell."
Shrike? Dark Nova? Minotaur? Orthrus? Fire Beetle? School specific traps? There is no direct counter play to any of those spells, only indirect.
"Mana burn is too much of a safe spell and the way it works negating your opponent from setting meanwhile balance is able to play hyper defensive and stack pips for days if they had too and come back with their own mass damage combo's"
Several people in this thread explained how Mana Burn is a risky spell in a lot of scenarios, I don't think I need to re-explain. Balance is not able to play hyper defensively at levels 60+ because Death mastery is extremely common from 60-90, damage and pierce are extremely high in those level ranges, and level 100+ has more than enough answers to counteract a "hyper defensive" player. Balance can't play hyper defensive at 60-130 because you're forced to take out your opponent before they get too threatening. You can't survive endlessly.
I don't understand your logic here. So the Balance is stacking pips and coming back with their own mass damage combos while losing pips, blades and traps on Mana Burn????? The only place Balance is able to do what you are describing is level 50 where Balances will stack different kinds of Spirit Traps and go for Shatter into Chimera, which is more of a high level TC in low level usage issue more than a Mana Burn thing, considering Balances can only have a maximum of 2 Mana Burns with the Order of High Glory Banner without sacrificing Life Mastery for the level 40 amulet.
"Balance is still a dominant school... but their still top underdogs in pvp."
Being dominant and being an underdog are completely opposite things. That sentence makes absolutely no sense.
"With incredible overloaded utility kit balance is able to shutdown their opponents to much without any actual penalty compared to other school."
If there is a high level Balance out there that is able to shut down their opponent, then let me meet that guy because with the way mid-high level PvP is set up that is not possible. Balance doesn't have an overloaded utility kit, and even if they did, Balance is a utility based school.
"How much control does a balance actually needs to shift the game in their direction."
Apparently more than they have now since even with Mana Burn, Supernova, Loremaster and Gaze of Fate, the match still goes either way.
"Mana burn, Efreet, Abominable weaver, Aura burn all need changes."
Efreet and Abominable Weaver both need changes due to the overpowered nature of high damage + high defensive utility spells. Mana Burn will also 100% need a change when Turn Based PvP comes to ranked. Supernova depends on what happens with Shadow Shrike when resist gets reworked. If Shrike is still a better version of Infallible and counters Fortify/Brace, then Supernova is fine the way it is. If schools lose Shrike as a utility, then Supernova will need to be reworked since Balances will be able to have unfair pierce + resist advantages over opponents.
"Nah sorry mate balance can do fairly well without mana burn hence why this thread was posted and many would agree on the aspect."
Play Balance without Mana Burn and tell me with a straight face that you found it to be a success. It won't be very long before you come back to the boards complaining about Balance needing better utility.
Responses to your other post:
"Hold up a second balance can't set up? What? Ever heard of the words brace? Into shields? Stuns? Pip save? And then balance for having like 6 blades?"
I said Balance can't set up offensively. Every spell you mentioned has a hard counter to it: Brace by Shrike, shields by DoT or Shrike, stuns by Stun Block, and I'm not sure what pip save is supposed to mean. Saving pips isn't setting up. Balance also can't set up 6+ blades without getting absolutely hard-countered by the opponent. Blade stacking Balance is an extremely non-viable strategy unless you're questing.
"Balance can def set up for mass damage esp into a gaze of fate adding that 25% damage to the already 135% damage."
I don't know whether you're complaining about Mana Burn or Gaze of Fate. A Balance is not keeping the opponent's pips low with Mana Burn and Gazing them simultaneously. If a Balance Mana Burns constantly early game, the opponent will be protected from Gaze of Fate by the time the Balance gets to Gaze. If the Balance opts to Gaze of Fate early without controlling the opponent's pips with Mana Burn, then the opponent will have a severe pip and threat advantage over the Balance. Fire, Ice, Myth, and Storm all have direct 2 pip counters to Gaze of Fate's bubble, while Death and Life both have 3 pip damage + bubble spells in Brown Spider and Red Ghost, and Death also has Doom and Gloom which is phenomenal against high-critical Balances.
"Am sorry but your thought are coming off a bit bias considering your hydra icon"
Yes, me, the guy that completely agreed with nerfing Loremaster when it was ridiculous, asked for the unfair advantage of Reshuffle being a Balance spell to be changed so the spell would be equal pip cost to all schools, and agreed with a Mana Burn rework in Turn Based PvP is somebody who's biased towards the Balance school.
Lastly, this phrase you made:


"Balance can do fairly well without mana burn hence why this thread was posted and many would agree on the aspect"

No disrespect to Snow7450, but poster of this thread making a reply to a post saying "Good it about time balance learn how to suffer" tells me all I need to know about why this thread was made. To add, not very many people agreed with Snow that Mana Burn is broken, with the majority of this thread saying it is a balanced or one of the most balanced spells in the game.

Again, you haven't explained to me in any scenario why or how Mana Burn is overpowered. Just non-explained claims about Mana Burn being a disgusting spell, pip removal spells being bad for the game, and whatnot. Like I said, Mana Burn should be nerfed to remove 2 pips (yes 2 power pips included) instead of 3 when Turn Based PvP comes around since it'd be an overpowered disruption spell and I hope KI is looking into this thread and already has a pre-release Mana Burn nerf in the making for when 5th Age comes around. That's the only nerf I will agree on, and since 5th Age is close, asking for a nerf is essentially pointless until Turn Based becomes the main Ranked mode.
You know what doesn't make any sense? arguing with a balance main about balance nerfs. Why don't we just throw a poll for each spell school nerf's of higher tier and let the majority decide? Spells starting from level 48

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
Liam Swiftwalker on Feb 26, 2020 wrote:
Could you please tell me what gear and pet set I need to be a Balance wizard with 7500+ Health, 60+ Universal resist, 135% Damage and 35% pierce?
Hat-Masque of the exalted one(darmoor) level 100

Robe-Bone smasher robe of poise(krok gauntlet) level 100

Boots-Dragoon Balance boots(catacombs crafting) level 130

Wand-Admiral's Boarding hook(sinbad) level 130

Athame-Dark usurper (darkmoor) level 100

Amulet-Traveling death chark (darkmoor) level 100

Ring- Duelist dare devil.(arena tickets) level 100

Deck- Rats Putin bevy of answers.

Pet- Clock work paladin- Pain giver-6%-Balance giver-6%- Balance dealer-10%- Spell Proof-10%- Spell defy-5%.(balance bringer jewel 3%)

Geographer
Sep 30, 2018
837
Fred Frost on Nov 15, 2019 wrote:
Balance needs mana burn. Loremaster got nerfed so hard, balance will be pushed down to the bottom of pvp if mana burn is nerfed too.
Good as it should be and thats what am calling for right now for balance to be pushed down the list along with ice and fire and give room for storm, life, myth and death to become easy top tier in 5th age pvp.